Hey, why's that tank bearing down on me?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 7, 2004, 5:31 pm

DES MOINES, Iowa - In what may be the first subpoena of its kind in decades, a federal judge has ordered a university to turn over records about a gathering of anti-war activists.

In addition to the subpoena of Drake University, subpoenas were served this past week on four of the activists who attended a Nov. 15 forum at the school, ordering them to appear before a grand jury Tuesday, the protesters said.

Federal prosecutors refuse to comment on the subpoenas.

In addition to records about who attended the forum, the subpoena orders the university to divulge all records relating to the local chapter of the National Lawyers Guild, a New York-based legal activist organization that sponsored the forum.

The group, once targeted for alleged ties to communism in the 1950s, announced Friday it will ask a federal court to quash the subpoena on Monday.

"The law is clear that the use of the grand jury to investigate protected political activities or to intimidate protesters exceeds its authority," guild President Michael Ayers said in a statement.

Representatives of the Lawyer's Guild and the American Civil Liberties Union said they had not heard of such a subpoena being served on any U.S. university in decades.

Those served subpoenas include the leader of the Catholic Peace Ministry, the former coordinator of the Iowa Peace Network, a member of the Catholic Worker House, and an anti-war activist who visited Iraq in 2002.

They say the subpoenas are intended to stifle dissent.

"This is exactly what people feared would happen," said Brian Terrell of the peace ministry, one of those subpoenaed. "The civil liberties of everyone in this country are in danger. How we handle that here in Iowa is very important on how things are going to happen in this country from now on."

The forum, titled "Stop the Occupation! Bring the Iowa Guard Home!" came the day before 12 protesters were arrested at an anti-war rally at Iowa National Guard headquarters in Johnston. Organizers say the forum included nonviolence training for people planning to demonstrate.

The targets of the subpoenas believe investigators are trying to link them to an incident that occurred during the rally. A Grinnell College librarian was charged with misdemeanor assault on a peace officer; she has pleaded innocent, saying she simply went limp and resisted arrest.

"The best approach is not to speculate and see what we learn on Tuesday" when the four testify, said Ben Stone, executive director of the Iowa Civil Liberties Union, which is representing one of the protesters.

Mark Smith, a lobbyist for the Washington-based American Association of University Professors, said he had not heard of any similar case of a U.S. university being subpoenaed for such records.

He said the case brings back fears of the "red squads" of the 1950s and campus clampdowns on Vietnam War protesters.

According to a copy obtained by The Associated Press, the Drake subpoena asks for records of the request for a meeting room, "all documents indicating the purpose and intended participants in the meeting, and all documents or recordings which would identify persons that actually attended the meeting."

It also asks for campus security records "reflecting any observations made of the Nov. 15, 2003, meeting, including any records of persons in charge or control of the meeting, and any records of attendees of the meeting."

Several officials of Drake, a private university with about 5,000 students, refused to comment Friday, including school spokeswoman Andrea McDonough. She referred questions to a lawyer representing the school, Steve Serck, who also would not comment.

A source with knowledge of the investigation said a judge had issued a gag order forbidding school officials from discussing the subpoena.

I'd express shock, but I'm not really all that shocked. We'll see where this goes I suppose, but it seems to be trampling all over a persons right to protest. Land of the free.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 7, 2004, 6:15 pm

You're beautiful more beautiful than me
You're honorable more honorable than me
Loyal to the Bank of America

(chorus 1)
It's a sign of the times
It's a sign of the times

(chorus 2)
You're sharpening stones, walking on coals
To improve your business acumen
Sharpening stones, walking on coals,
To improve your business acumen

Vested interest united ties, landed gentry rationalize
Look who bought the myth, by jingo, buy America

(repeat chorus 1)

(repeat chorus 2)

Enemy sighted, enemy met, I'm addressing the realpolitik
Look who bought the myth, by jingo, buy America

"Let us not assassinate this man further Senator,
You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir?
At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

We're sharpening stones, walking on coals
To improve your business acumen
Sharpening stones, walking on coals,
To improve your business acumen

Enemy sighted, enemy met, I'm addressing the realpolitik
You've seen start and you've seen quit
(I'm addressing the table of content)
I always thought of you as quick
Exhuming McCarthy
(Meet me at the book burning)
Exhuming McCarthy
(Meet me at the book burning)
Exhuming McCarthy
(Meet me at the book burning)
Exhuming McCarthy
(Meet me at the book burning)

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 7, 2004, 6:18 pm

Hey Canada...prepare for an influx of political refugees.../em looks at Newfoundland...

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » February 7, 2004, 6:31 pm

I want to persoanlly guarentee any U.S. citizens seeking to escape thier government that

a) You'll get used to the beer
b) If you sail to Newfoundland in a Buick, you will not be turned away. In fact, you will likely be told "b'ys, da's right DEADLY!" and admitted if only for the Awesome Factor

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 7, 2004, 10:34 pm

Niffoni wrote:I want to persoanlly guarentee any U.S. citizens seeking to escape thier government that

a) You'll get used to the beer
b) If you sail to Newfoundland in a Buick, you will not be turned away. In fact, you will likely be told "b'ys, da's right DEADLY!" and admitted if only for the Awesome Factor

newfies rock! I hope they make an appearance in Vegas this FF.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 8, 2004, 1:13 am

protesters are nearly the lowest form of life....

they need to get one....

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 8, 2004, 1:42 am

Fash wrote:protesters are nearly the lowest form of life....

they need to get one....

Yeah damn that Jesus fellow and George Washington and Thomas Jefferson...

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » February 8, 2004, 2:02 am

Where did this quote originate from?

Edit: Niffoni they would have to kiss the cod first but the Awesome Factor may buy them some slack.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 8, 2004, 2:21 am

Was on Yahoo, I believe it was a Reuters story.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 8, 2004, 2:24 am

DEs Moines Register 2 days ago, I looked it up just to make sure I wasn't seeing things...

I think the paper was called the Register anyway actually mine was a dif article but the same info was there

PS

Kiss the Cod?...ummm I...ok Denmark! any cod kissing rituals there?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 8, 2004, 3:31 am

Arborealus wrote:
Fash wrote:protesters are nearly the lowest form of life....

they need to get one....
Yeah damn that Jesus fellow and George Washington and Thomas Jefferson...

.. not protestors in todays meaning of the word.
who's ass did you pull that from?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 8, 2004, 4:55 am

Fash wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Fash wrote:protesters are nearly the lowest form of life....

they need to get one....
Yeah damn that Jesus fellow and George Washington and Thomas Jefferson...
.. not protestors in todays meaning of the word.
who's ass did you pull that from?

You are so obviously wrong sir..

Protest - A formal declaration of disapproval or objection issued by a concerned person, group, or organization.

Like a Declaration of independence?...Could be...

I don't see any addenda limiting that to the people with whom you disagree...

Protest is the most essential act of Patriotism sir...its THE reason that Jefferson and the rest of the fellows who started this country made sure that we were constitutionally guaranteed the right to assemble...did you think that they put that in for their annual kegger?

People have died by the millions to assure your right to protest sir...millions are willing to die again for that freedom it would serve you well to remember this

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 8, 2004, 11:07 am

What was the incident that all of the groups don't want to be tied to? Obviously some of them were involved with part of it.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » February 9, 2004, 1:34 pm

Don't you guys thnk it's kind of scary that random people here say things like "Protestors are the lowest form of life." ? I mean not only does our administration (which I hoped was kind of outside of 'us' ) trample our rights, but random normal people support this. I hope you people know how to goose step...

-=Lohrno

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 9, 2004, 4:54 pm

Lohrno wrote:Don't you guys thnk it's kind of scary that random people here say things like "Protestors are the lowest form of life." ? I mean not only does our administration (which I hoped was kind of outside of 'us' ) trample our rights, but random normal people support this. I hope you people know how to goose step...

One thing I've learned from reading VV is to not be surprised when anyone says something so abhorrently stupid that it would make Chris "Corky" Burke ask "wtf?". What is "normal" out in the world can be very frightening sometimes.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 9, 2004, 5:02 pm

Lohrno wrote:Don't you guys thnk it's kind of scary that random people here say things like "Protestors are the lowest form of life." ? I mean not only does our administration (which I hoped was kind of outside of 'us' ) trample our rights, but random normal people support this. I hope you people know how to goose step...

-=Lohrno

I can't goose step, but I am damn sure gonna grow some flowers to put in tank barrels!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 9, 2004, 9:06 pm

protesters are people who stand outside real events blocking traffic and holding signs no one gives a shit about. it's rediculous, they train these people with nothing better to do in non violent protest... but it serves no purpose in this case. Once a country decides to go to war, that's fuckin that. We win, over and done with. Anti-War = Scum.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 9, 2004, 9:16 pm

Fash wrote:protesters are people who stand outside real events blocking traffic and holding signs no one gives a shit about. it's rediculous, they train these people with nothing better to do in non violent protest... but it serves no purpose in this case. Once a country decides to go to war, that's fuckin that. We win, over and done with. Anti-War = Scum.

Methinks you doth protest too much...

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » February 10, 2004, 12:12 am

Fash wrote:Protesters sind Leute, die die äußeren realen Fälle stehen, die Verkehr blockieren und Zeichen halten, niemand eine Scheiße ungefähr gibt. sie ist, sie ausbildet diese Leute mit nichts rediculous, das besser ist, im nicht heftigen Protest zu tun..., aber sie dient keinen Zweck in diesem Fall. Sobald ein Land entscheidet war zu gehen, ist das fuckin das. Wir gewinnen, übermäßig und mit getan. Antikriegs = Abschaum.

I've often wondered how Hitler was able to get away with all the shit he did over an advanced and supposidly enlightened populace.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 10, 2004, 11:29 pm

DES MOINES, Iowa - Federal prosecutors withdrew a subpoena Tuesday ordering Drake University to turn over a list of people involved in an antiwar forum in November, as well as subpoenas ordering four activists to testify before a grand jury.

Brian Terrell, leader of the Catholic Peace Ministry and one of the four, told a crowd of about 100 cheering people outside the federal courthouse: "We made them want to stop, and we have to make sure they never want to do this again."

The U.S. attorney's office had no immediate comment on why the subpoenas were withdrawn just one day after federal prosecutor Stephen O'Meara issued a statement acknowledging an investigation was under way.

O'Meara said the focus of the probe was alleged trespassing at the Iowa National Guard headquarters in Johnston that happened while a protest against the war in Iraq was taking place nearby on Nov. 16. He said the protest, in which 12 were arrested, was not the problem.

The antiwar forum at Drake University was held the previous day.

Al Overbaugh, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, said the investigation was not over, but he would not comment further.

As part of the probe, prosecutors had served a subpoena last week asking the university to turn over the names of participants in the forum.

It also requested campus security records about the forum, sponsored by the Drake chapter of the National Lawyers Guild, which included sessions on nonviolence training and the Iraq war.

Drake was preparing legal motions to fight the subpoena when Steve Serck, a lawyer representing the school, received word it had been dropped.

"We would have argued that it chilled the First Amendment rights of free speech and free association of our students," he said.

Civil liberties advocates welcomed the withdrawals, but said troubling questions remain. The Iowa Civil Liberties Union pledged to file legal motions and "use other avenues" to find out why the subpoenas were served in the first place.

"If it was just a trespassing investigation, why seek the membership records of the National Lawyers Guild?" asked Ben Stone, executive director of the ICLU. "If this was an attempt to chill protests through the aggressive policing of a run-of-the-mill crime, we've got a serious problem in America."

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 11, 2004, 12:30 pm

Sorry Fash, the other 249,999,999 people with first amendment rights don't have to adhere to your schedule.

thanks for sharing that astute insight into constitutional law though

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 11, 2004, 2:30 pm

They have the Constitutional right to block traffic? Than I should have the Consititutional right to run them the fuck over if they're in the street.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 11, 2004, 3:27 pm

dunno masteen, ask the judge at your trial for vehicular manslaughter =P

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 11, 2004, 3:45 pm

masteen wrote:They have the Constitutional right to block traffic? Than I should have the Consititutional right to run them the fuck over if they're in the street.

Nope they don't have the right to block traffic except where parade permits etc have been applied for...

But civil disobedience is sometimes effective and sometimes necessary...though it's not a constitutional right in fact it is inherently illegal and demands the willingness to be arrested for applicable crimes...
The Boston Tea Party is perfect example....

There are certainly other forms of protest...

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 11, 2004, 5:07 pm

"protesting" and "civil disobedience" are entirely different things. anyone (like fash) who doesn't understand the difference could certainly use a quick refresher 9th grade social studies course.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » February 11, 2004, 6:06 pm

or a good skull fuck for peace.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 11, 2004, 6:36 pm

Truant wrote:or a good skull fuck for peace.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 11, 2004, 7:05 pm

They're still scum, protected by the constitution or not.

get a fuckin job.

Ich Bin Ein Patriot.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » February 11, 2004, 7:08 pm

Because protestors naturally don't have jobs?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 11, 2004, 7:44 pm

Vetiria wrote:Because protestors naturally don't have jobs?

Head shops and organic grocerys have very flexible hours, and you get a sweet discount on patchouli oil!

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 11, 2004, 7:52 pm

masteen wrote:
Vetiria wrote:Because protestors naturally don't have jobs?
Head shops and organic grocerys have very flexible hours, and you get a sweet discount on patchouli oil!

Sandalwood prease...Patchouli is so Phish Fans...

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » February 11, 2004, 8:38 pm

Fash wrote:They're still scum, protected by the constitution or not.

get a fuckin job.

Ich Bin Ein Patriot.

What the fuck are you doing on a message board anyway? Get back to greeting your Walmart shoppers for christ sakes!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 13, 2004, 3:27 am

Chidoro wrote: What the fuck are you doing on a message board anyway? Get back to greeting your Walmart shoppers for christ sakes!

Rrrriiight.

Not that my job has anything to do with it, tardoro, but I'm a programmer and I've always been well paid.

Maybe we can spark up this thread after all....

The only thing the anti-war movement can do for me is this:

A-Bomb, fine art magazine, girls of the anti-war movement

thx.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2004, 1:05 pm

masteen wrote:They have the Constitutional right to block traffic? Than I should have the Consititutional right to run them the fuck over if they're in the street.

Couldn't agree more Masteen.