Another under-age consent sentencing,interesting find though

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Krimson Klaw
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Another under-age consent sentencing,interesting find though

Post by Krimson Klaw »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109938,00.html

Now this story is about a man, 18, that had sex with a 14 year old boy, and his defense team is saying it's descrimination against gays, because if it had been a girl, he could have recieved only a year.

But here is the interesting part of the article.
Limon could have received a much lighter sentence had he or the 14-year-old boy, identified only as M.A.R, been female because a 1999 statute, known as the "Romeo and Juliet" law (search), provides lesser penalties for consensual sex when one partner is 19 or under and the other partner's age is within four years.
Is this Romeo and Juliet law only in Kansas? I am not able to dig anything up on it.

-edit nm, found it in this article
http://archive.aclu.org/news/2001/n092801a.html
KANSAS CITY, KS – Kansas’ so-called “Romeo and Juliet Law” is unconstitutional because it gives lesbian and gay youth much higher prison sentences than straight youth who engage in the same behavior, the American Civil Liberties Union said in an appeal brief filed today.

Matthew Limon is appealing a 17-year prison sentence he received because shortly after he turned 18, he performed oral sex on a nearly-15-year-old male at a residential school for developmentally disabled youth where they both lived in Miami County, Kansas. If he had instead performed oral sex on a 14-year-old female, he would have received 12 months in jail under the “Romeo and Juliet Law,” which applies only to heterosexuals.

“The only difference between a year in jail and 17 years is whether or not you’re gay,” said Matt Coles, Director of the ACLU Lesbian & Gay Rights Project, which filed a friend-of-the-court brief on Limon’s behalf. “Matt Limon will be 36 years old by the time he’s released, having spent half of his life in prison – while a heterosexual person would have been released before turning 19.”

Under the law, consensual oral sex between two teens is a lesser crime if the younger teenager is 14 to 16 years old, if the older teenager is under 19, if the age difference is less than 4 years, if there are no third parties involved, and if the two teenagers “are members of the opposite sex.”

The Equal Protection clause of the U.S. Constitution forbids singling out a group of people – based on bigotry toward that group – and punishing them more severely for the same behavior. “That’s exactly what Kansas is doing,” Coles said.

Today’s appeal doesn’t seek to change age-of-consent laws or reduce sentences for sexual contact with minors, the ACLU said.

“The question here isn’t whether young adults should be punished for unlawful sexual activity. It’s whether gay people should be punished more severely than straight people for committing the same crime,” Coles said. “We don’t think the Constitution allows that, and we hope this court won’t, either.”

The case is State of Kansas v. Matthew R Limon in the Court of Appeals of the State of Kansas, in Kansas City, number 00-85898-A. Limon is represented by a court-appointed public defender.
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Post by Zaelath »

Hasn't the supreme court already ruled several times that it's ok for states to discriminate against gays? It's f'ing stupid in the extreme, but I can't see them overturning this case and breaking all the precedent they've set..

US has some messed up laws on sexuality in general, eg, it's illegal to perform oral in MN under the sodomy laws. How the hell they expect that to be enforced I'm not sure, but it's there..
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Post by kyoukan »

most sodomy laws are a century+ year old when morality was easier to enforce.
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Post by Marbus »

18 - 15 seems reasonable... 18 - 14 is, IMHO more of a stretch because they would be in different schools. While a 15 year old is in HS at 14 you are still in Jr High... I don't have an issue with the gay thing unless he was not consenting.

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Post by Zaelath »

Marbus wrote:18 - 15 seems reasonable... 18 - 14 is, IMHO more of a stretch because they would be in different schools. While a 15 year old is in HS at 14 you are still in Jr High... I don't have an issue with the gay thing unless he was not consenting.

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Limon's conviction stems from acts with a 14-year-old boy. Both were residents of a Paola group home for the developmentally disabled. Limon was 18 at the time.
Which of course brings up the (valid I feel, but hard to legislate..) question of mental age. This 18 year old could have been developmentally delayed enough to have a mental age equal or lesser than the 14 year old.
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

This one's tricky because the guy is mentally not up to par. He does, however, have two other similar offenses on his record, which the judge felt was enough to justify such a lengthy sentence. That could just be a ruse to punish the guy for being gay, since the court basically agrees he is not playing with a full deck.
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Post by Sylvus »

Marbus wrote:18 - 15 seems reasonable... 18 - 14 is, IMHO more of a stretch because they would be in different schools. While a 15 year old is in HS at 14 you are still in Jr High...
Perhaps it's different in different parts of the country, but my High Schools in MO and MI were 9th-12th grade. I was 14 until like a couple weeks before we were let out for summer vacation.
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Post by Drasta »

America needs to wake up to the fact that people do have sex and stop pushing it under the rug and saying its evil bad and shouldn't be done!
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Post by Zaelath »

Drasta wrote:America needs to wake up to the fact that people do have sex and stop pushing it under the rug and saying its evil bad and shouldn't be done!
I think you need a little perspective.. get back to me in 10 years and tell me how wise you were at 17, and I'll tell you how little I knew at 33.
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Post by Drasta »

im sorry that you and you adult i know how your world works .... but it doesn't ... if parents only had a clue what went on in the world of teens ... they couldn't handle it
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Post by Lynks »

Drasta wrote:im sorry that you and you adult i know how your world works .... but it doesn't ... if parents only had a clue what went on in the world of teens ... they couldn't handle it
Yes, cause I'm sure your parents never went through anything difficult when they were a teen. :roll:
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Post by Drasta »

gotta love the "oh i've went though hard stuff before .. i know what it was like to be a teenager .. i was one once also" times have changed, shows how little you do know ... now you say "ya ya ya whatever i told my parents that too" or someother crude statment like that
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

How about we take this in another direction.

Drasta, what do teenagers today deal with that no other generation has before?

What in particular qualifies today's teenagers as the generation that is dealing with the worst problems yet?
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

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Post by Zaelath »

Like every other teen on the planet, I guess Drasta thinks we all forget everything that happened more than a week ago :)

Regardless, my point is this: I know you think you know everything, every teen does. The older you get the more you realise how little you knew ten years before, and for that matter, how little you know now.

Feel free to ask *anyone* over 30 w/ an ounce of sense and they'll tell you how naive they were as a teen. That doesn't mean you're stupid, and it's not an insult, it's just how life works.

Damn good question btw, Adex.
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Post by Trek »

Adex_Xeda wrote:How about we take this in another direction.

Drasta, what do teenagers today deal with that no other generation has before?

What in particular qualifies today's teenagers as the generation that is dealing with the worst problems yet?

Eminem. loose change..er 50cent et al.
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Post by Drasta »

did you have school shootings when you were in school adex? ... or how many teen pregnancy's were there in school 20 years ago? were also getting the shit tested out of us in school. the world picks up more speed the more it progresses ... were not gasping in awe over a black and white picture box anymore ... there is a lot more competition to get anywhere and you have to start when your a teen ... gotta love the stress of being a kid ..
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Post by Trek »

Drasta wrote:did you have school shootings when you were in school
Yes, there where many, just not in my school, saw them on the news all the time.
Drasta wrote:or how many teen pregnancy's were there in school 20 years ago?
I dunno about 20 years ago, but 15 years ago I think this was one of the top reasons for dropout
Drasta wrote:were also getting the shit tested out of us in school. ..
I remember a lot of test done on us to, fortunately most of yours arent done with needles. I have seen testing in high schools now, do you really find it that difficult?
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Post by Mplor »

As has been said, there are two separate questions here. The age difference between the two consenting individuals is a tough issue.

However, it's patently unfair that illicitl sex between two boys is punished more severely than illicit sex between a boy and a girl. I don't expect we'll see any rational posts here defending that part of the question.
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Post by Sueven »

I am 19 years old. I'm a sophomore in college. Since I'm still technically a teenager, and only a year and a half removed from high school, I don't think Drasta can tell me that I don't know what it's like for his generation.

I can say this: some things are harder for teenagers today. The world is smaller. Young people have access to more information, and more choices to make. The advent of the internet, cell phones, kids demanding autonomy and so forth has added layers of complexity to youth life that prior generations never had to deal with.

On the other hand, many things are much easier today. School is much easier. Grade inflation is rampant. Self-esteem is suddenly a big deal. For the most part, parents are better able to support their children, there are fewer kids with jobs, and there are certainly fewer kids who work to support their families. Now, there are certainly exceptions, but by and large, these hold true as general statements.

And I entirely disagree with the idea that parents would be just horrified by the things that high schoolers do. What do high schoolers do? Drink, smoke pot, and fuck? Bully little kids? Violence? Gangs? Hard drugs?

Yeah trust me, our parents know about that. Yours specifically might be naive to some things that you do, but by and large, adults know pretty well what it's like to be a teenager. And these things have always existed. It's not like there's some mythic "good ol' days," when kids respected their parents and the system worked.

I don't want to sound unsympathetic. High school can be a rough place, especially with the harsh social structure that exists. I don't know what kind of kid you are, I don't know if you take harassment or not, and if you do, I'm sorry, it can be vicious. But you have to realize that where you are right now is not the worst place you can be. You basically get a free four years to figure things out. You probably have no responsibilities outside of school, and very likely have no financial responsibilities whatsoever.

Imagine what it'll be like a few years from now. Maybe you'll be in college, taking classes that are far more difficult, dealing with drugs/sex/violence/social issues that are much more severe and life-altering, maybe beginning to experience financial independence and understanding the burden of having to make money, and so on.

Maybe you won't go to college, and you'll start working instead. Then you'll have to experience a whole new set of burdens and responsibilities. I can't speak too much to this scenario, because I haven't done it, but I'm perfectly comfortable admitting my naivete and relatively confident saying that it's probably more difficult and disconcerting than college.

Oops, I have company. I'll edit and finish this post later.
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Post by Chidoro »

Drasta wrote:did you have school shootings when you were in school adex?
compared to what? The teens getting drafted and sent off to war upon graduation?
... or how many teen pregnancy's were there in school 20 years ago?
Actually, I think you'd be surprised to find out that it was higher back then. Being that sex ed wasn't ever a topic of discussion. Really, do you think people your age did nothing but prance around back in the 80's? Shit, there wasn't even a concern about AIDS. Only really started popping up in the news around '85, but even then, it wasn't widespread. I grew up having to worry about herpies, fuck AIDS. It was beautiful. We humped a shitload more than you could possibly imagine.
were also getting the shit tested out of us in school.
as opposed to what? At least people actually try to understand where deficiencies may lie instead of categorically assuming they are stupid.
the world picks up more speed the more it progresses ... were not gasping in awe over a black and white picture box anymore
Sure, access to information has increased rapidly. Why would that effect a high school student any more than an up and coming employee who has graduated some 17 years ago? If anything is true, it would certainly be more prevelant in the latter case, by a landslide really.
... there is a lot more competition to get anywhere and you have to start when your a teen ... gotta love the stress of being a kid ..
Heh, please. There's nothing funnier than seeing someone who isn't able to see previous generations diffculties. You have perceived hardships and are able to share them. Every prior generation never had such access or understanding. Be happy there's people who actually try and intervent these days. Hardships? Ask a few people around here to tell you stories about our grandparents who had no fucking clue where their next meal was coming from. You just have too much free time to worry about unimportant shit. Go get a job or play a sport or something for crying out loud.
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Post by Sionistic »

Every young teenager thinks they have had it harder in thier generation then another because when you're 15-17ish, you dont know shit. You think you do but you dont. I'm 18 now and when I looked back a few years I realized how dumb I really was. I dont claim to know things now but I feel much better now.
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Post by Vaemas »

It's pretty simple really. The older we get, the more we learn we didn't know.

I ran into a friend today I hadn't seen in 5 or 6 years. She reminded me of how naive, idealistic, and stupid I was, just a few years ago. I've been through and learned a lot since then. But every day I realize I haven't cornered the market on wisdom and I'm really not as smart as I think I am.
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Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Vaemas wrote:It's pretty simple really. The older we get, the more we learn we didn't know.

I ran into a friend today I hadn't seen in 5 or 6 years. She reminded me of how naive, idealistic, and stupid I was, just a few years ago. I've been through and learned a lot since then. But every day I realize I haven't cornered the market on wisdom and I'm really not as smart as I think I am.
Some people never learn this. Have a chat with Savanka one day, not sure how old she is but I know shes not in school. She thinks she knows the answer to every question in the universe :lol: .
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