Zero Tolerance

Siji · Post by **Siji** » December 5, 2003, 7:19 pm

I'm having a hard time with this crap happening..

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/html/AE0 ... F37C.shtml

A student expelled from Parkway High for a year for having Advil, an over-the-counter pain reliever, will not be allowed to return to the school.

Kelly Herpin and daughter Amanda Stiles, a sophomore, appealed the one-year expulsion to a Bossier Parish School Board committee Thursday night, spending about 10 minutes with the board's administrative committee behind closed doors.

The committee and the full board voted unanimously to uphold an administrative decision that Stiles be expelled to the alternative school.

School boards hold such hearings in a closed session, but parents have the right under state law to request that such sessions be open. Herpin didn't make that request but did speak to reporters after the hearing. She left before the board voted on her request but learned of its decision by phone.

"I'm not really sure at this point what we'll do," Herpin said. "I'm going to have to talk to my husband, and we're going to have to make some plans. I'm not sure we could afford a private school. We've been looking at moving to another area."

She would have to sue the School Board to continue fighting the expulsion.

Superintendent Ken Kruithof said after the board meeting that the school system is following a state law that requires a one-year expulsion and being consistent in the system's "zero-tolerance" policy.

But another school official said earlier Thursday that having medication on campus doesn't automatically lead to a one-year expulsion. "After an investigation and a hearing then, if necessary, punishment is administered. It could be no punishment," said Betty McCauley, Bossier schools student services director.

Disciplinary action can range from in-school suspension to placement at the system's alternative school or expulsion from the system. From Aug. 11 through Wednesday, 18 students were sent to the system's alternative school because of possessing "pills," according to a report system officials compiled. However, Kruithof said he didn't know if the category covered nonprescription, prescription and illegal drugs or only nonprescription drugs.

State guidelines define medication as "all prescription and nonprescription drugs," McCauley said Thursday afternoon. McCauley hears discipline appeals from parents dissatisfied with discipline imposed by school principals.

McCauley declined comment after the hearing, referring questions to Kruithof. So did District 11 board member Gary Dowden, who heads the administrative committee.

Kruithof didn't respond directly to questions about McCauley's statements but emphasized that state law requires a one-year expulsion.

Herpin considers Stiles an "average student" in both grades and behavior but said Stiles never got in serious enough trouble to warrant an expulsion. Kruithof said Stiles had other disciplinary incidents in the past but said he didn't know if they resulted in suspensions.

The search of Stiles' purse that turned up the medication came after a tip from a teacher about a student smoking at school. Herpin said her daughter was part of a group that was searched in response to the tip.

Kruithof said a teacher identifed Stiles as the student smoking a cigarette and that Stiles ran into a restroom, where a teacher searched only her purse.

No cigarettes or lighters were found. Stiles was not disciplined for tobacco-related violations.

Students caught smoking usually are suspended.

"I think a one-year expulsion for an over-the-counter medicine is pretty severe," Herpin said.

Stiles said she carried the medicine in her purse because she got frequent headaches.

"I just never thought about the fact that I could be searched. I think we're old enough to know how many (pills) we can take without overdosing or being in danger."

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » December 5, 2003, 7:30 pm

Back when I was in high school we had an incident where a student was smuggling tabs of speed into the school shaped as common asprin in a bayer bottle. The student was selling the stuff under the guise of giving other students an asprin for headaches. Multiple students were suspended/expelled over it. Most of the offenders were honors students who were popping the pills to stay awake and/or perform in classes and were on their way to some pretty prestegious schools. While I can understand both sides of the issues, I do commend a school for taking a tough stance on a drug enforcement policy instead of being apathetic to it.

The downside is that more students will be punished for carrying legal over the counter medications than will be caught using controlled substances. I would think that having the school nurse or on-campus police officer check the bottle would be preferable to mandatory suspension/expulsion hearings however.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » December 6, 2003, 1:37 pm

Unreal.

If they are so convinced that the kid is on some type of illicit substance, conifscate it, call the cops and let them test it. If its an illicit/illegal drug, expel em and let the law do its thing. If not STFU and maybe apologize to the kid. The only extenuating circumstance would be if someone witnessed and came forward to state/testify that the student was selling the "pills" and passing them off for something else.

If this is truly expulsion for Advil possession its stupidity in the extreme. Grats school board trustees on incoming lawsuit...

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 6, 2003, 3:41 pm

A girl in my HS overdosed on Advil. No joke. She took like 10 of them at once to get rid of a headache and went into convulsions in Spanish class.

Rivera Bladestrike · Post by **Rivera Bladestrike** » December 6, 2003, 4:12 pm

Xouqoa wrote:A girl in my HS overdosed on Advil. No joke. She took like 10 of them at once to get rid of a headache and went into convulsions in Spanish class.

Wow, that girl is an idiot.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » December 6, 2003, 4:15 pm

10... who the fuck takes 10...

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 11, 2003, 10:01 am

10... who the fuck takes 10...

10 is actually the reccommended dosage for morons.

Gurm · Post by **Gurm** » December 11, 2003, 11:56 am

I love the U.S.!

Go Zero Tolerance!

Yay!

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » December 11, 2003, 12:02 pm

Yes, it doesn't make sense when you try to see it in shades of gray. A teenager has possession of medication that is perfectly legal and gets the same treatment (from the school system) as someone who's got a loaded crack pipe.

The reason for these controversial "zero tolerance" policies is, in my understanding, to take the shades of gray out of the question by removing any subjective action on the part of the school administration and thus making it a black and white question "Did the student have a drug of any kind on school property?" and by giving the same treatment to all they appease both the parents railing for tougher discipline as well as lower or remove thier susceptability to lawsuits over uneven treatment of students for similar violations.

I read somewhere (no, I do not have a link or time to research) that most school systems have several active lawsuits over these types of decisions in the past and that has gone away after implementing these policies.

It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater IMHO, but apparently it makes sense for them.

edit: spelling

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 11, 2003, 12:16 pm

zero tolerance is stupid but it's there for a reason. I doubt that the school adminstration relishes expelling that girl. at some point liability has to be put on the student even if it was just advil. unless a lawyer could prove in court that the school administration did not adequately inform the student body about zero tolerance laws I fail to see how the fault could be theirs. It does not matter if it was "just advil" if the rules say no pills in school then you do not taking any fucking pills to school. period. hell if the rules say you have to wear a funny hat on wednesday and you don't, then don't be surprised if you get in trouble for it.

if she gets frequent headaches, then I have never heard of a school that does not have its own nurse's office where pain medication like advil can be dispensed. even if you bring it from home and give it to the school and let it be dispensed for you.

it's sad because I can imagine reading similar articles like this 20 years from now with people going "omg zero tolerance policies r dum, lol" and they fail to realize that people should be aware of them by now.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » December 11, 2003, 12:34 pm

Actually the school nurse is getting rarer and rarer. Most nurses don't want to be stuck giving ritalin out all day and the districts don't want to pay the expense. My wife is a RN and in college one of her clinicals was as a school nurse. She hated it and would never do that for a living. The pay is way underpar and any monkey can hand out ritalin and bandaids.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 11, 2003, 12:40 pm

regardless someone at the school can dispense medication like mild pain relievers.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 11, 2003, 12:51 pm

i understand liability issues etc, but if the school doesnt give a kid the advil, i dont see how they are liable if the kid eats the whole bottle.

policies like this simple are absurd. it is fine to have zero tolerance on illegal drugs. but you can also have rules against having OtC drugs on your person that do not result in expulsion.

at my high school, there were many different levels of disciplinary action, and i'm sure the same si the case at this one.

you can still make it against the rules to have Advil or whatever on your person, but expulsion is an absurd punishment. Moreover, i'm not sure it is legal. And the school is probably opening itself up to more of a liability case now than it ever would have by allowing OtC drugs on students persons.

The bottom line in my opinion is that rules like this shortcircuit the use of individual judgement. And sooner or later, you are going to run into a result like this when good judgement is not allowed to resolve basic situations. but public school administration in many places is very suspect, and i guess this is no exception.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 11, 2003, 2:20 pm

Voronwë wrote:policies like this simple are absurd. it is fine to have zero tolerance on illegal drugs. but you can also have rules against having OtC drugs on your person that do not result in expulsion.

Then you have kids bringing speed and shit into school in asprin bottles. I've seen ecstasy tabs that were manufactured to look exactly like generic asprin. If kids are allowed to bring pills into school then you have to send his pills off to a laboratory to get analyzed every time he or she is caught with them. better to just say "no pills at all that aren't prescribed" and be done with it. any over the counter medication can be dispensed by the proper authority.

if the policy is zero tolerance on any non prescription medication and that policy is broken, then don't be surprised when you're expelled for it.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 11, 2003, 2:24 pm

i understand where you are coming from, but you could at least suspend the student until lab tests are done. they could be handed a serious disciplinary action, and then readmitted.

because drugs can be smuggled in a tylenol bottle does not mean that every tylenol bottle carries drugs.

might as well ban purses, pockets, automobiles, and lockers too.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 11, 2003, 2:31 pm

Voronwë wrote:i understand where you are coming from, but you could at least suspend the student until lab tests are done. they could be handed a serious disciplinary action, and then readmitted.

then you have to do that to every student. the expense and time in man hours is staggering. better to just say "no pills or you're expelled." if I went to a school where it was well known that if I was caught with any type of non-prescription medication then I would be kicked out, then I wouldn't bring any to school with me. it's really pretty simple.

if that rule wasn't communicated very effectively then maybe the girl has a case.

drugs are a serious problem in schools.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 11, 2003, 2:33 pm

Xouqoa wrote:A girl in my HS overdosed on Advil. No joke. She took like 10 of them at once to get rid of a headache and went into convulsions in Spanish class.

Is 10 Advil enough to kill you or did she have some sort of other medical condition? I don't pop pils often but when I do it's Advil. The stuff works for me.

10 seems a bit low to be lethal for an average person.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 11, 2003, 2:33 pm

oh snap. double post

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 11, 2003, 2:35 pm

She sounds like she is a few sandwiches short of a picnic but nevertheless no one should be expelled for Advil, WTF!

Marb

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 11, 2003, 2:36 pm

Marbus wrote:She sounds like she is a few sandwiches short of a picnic but nevertheless no one should be expelled for Advil, WTF!

she wasn't expelled for having advil on her, she was expelled for breaking the school's zero tolerance policy on non-perscription medication.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 11, 2003, 2:41 pm

Winnow wrote:
Xouqoa wrote:A girl in my HS overdosed on Advil. No joke. She took like 10 of them at once to get rid of a headache and went into convulsions in Spanish class.
Is 10 Advil enough to kill you or did she have some sort of other medical condition? I don't pop pils often but when I do it's Advil. The stuff works for me.

10 seems a bit low to be leathal for an average person.

No way is 10 a lethal dose. 1 advil is 200mg of ibuprofin.

a prescription Motrin (same drug) is 800mg. after my wife gave birth they were giving her 800mg of ibuprofin every 5hrs. they do this to every woman who gives birth at that hospital (in addition to any other pain medication). I have a hard time believing that they routinely administer a dose that is 40% of a lethal dose to women whose bodies are weakened from parturition.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 11, 2003, 2:47 pm

Voronwë wrote: I have a hard time believing that they routinely administer a dose that is 40% of a lethal dose to women whose bodies are weakened from parturition.

parturition = popping out a kid

my new word for the day : )

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 11, 2003, 3:35 pm

she didn't die, but she had to go to the hospital... it was quite strange! (she was a really small girl, too)

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » December 11, 2003, 5:49 pm

freshman year i took some vicks 44 cough syrup on an empty stomach and felt like i was going to die (yes, genius moment, thank you)

2,000 mg of ibuprofin might not be lethal, but it's definitely enough to fuck somebody up