Brain scan identifies racists says scientists...

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archeiron
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Post by archeiron »

Voronwë wrote:Adex you are making the wrong conclusion from the data. there is ZERO comparison between this study and the data (which isnt 100% conclusive either) regarding homosexuality and hardwiring.

It is not that people are predisposed to be racists.

you should just conclude that racist whites have activity in different brain regions than non-racist whites when shown images of blacks.

obviously they researchers dont divide people into (i hope) 2 piles, non-racist and racist. they most likely score along some kind of continuum and then do an analysis of variance with certain fMRI images from that.

but back to the point. Somebody who is racist against blacks will have more powerful emotions than to somebody who views blacks the same as any other person. Emotions are brain activity.

fMRI does not measure brain structures. It measures brain activity. you cannot make ANY statements about the wiring of the structures from fMRI or differences in various parts of the brain.

you can only say this: blood was flowing to this part of the brain at time X. Time X also corresponds to when you showed the test subject the image.

The data tells you NOTHING about why a "racist" white has different activity than a non-racist white. Nothing from this experiement will tell you whether people are chemically pre-disposed to be racist, ro whether racism is purely a function of one's environment, or a blend of the two.

the suggestions about homosexuality being hardwired did not have their origin in fMRI data. They had their origin in morphological data - meaning a scientist did dissections of the brains of homosexual men who had died. There are some issues with other factors with the original study (as i recall), but this would still tell you a completely different type of thing than an fMRI study.

Just because a structure looks different in an anatomical exam doesnt necessarily mean it functions differently from an electrical point of view. But in brain function, distance is time (impulse take time to travel), and time is information (brain sets up rhythms to add layers of information to not only "what" impulse is coming in, but "when" that impulse comes in relative to other information. So in that regard, it is not irresponsible to conclude that differently shaped features might function somewhat differently.

/tangent off =)
MMMmmm. I love discussions that revolve around people confusing causality and correlation. :P This article offers a sensationalist representation of these findings and the "facts" that are thrown in suggests that this wasn't a significant study from a statistical perspective. Proving causality is much large kettle of fish and this study wouldn't even begin to touch that topic.

In any case, most emotional behaviour should have clear fMRI findings of some discernable pattern. omg! l33t ins1d3r inf0z!! People use bits of their brain to think!!!111!!!1!!!!one!!!11!
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Forthe
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Post by Forthe »

Adex_Xeda wrote:I agree with your distinction but disagree with your conclusion Forthe, that's why I posted things in the manner that I did.

So you do agree that having a genetic disposition towards doing something doesn't necessarily give you license to act on the urge?

Just because you're born a certain way doesn't give you freedom to act that certain way, especially if your action is harmful to society.

If this is so, the debate over right and wrong leaves the world of genetics and returns back to the arena of what is, and is not acceptable to society.
I'll agree with all that when the genetic disposition causes harm if acted upon.

However, you seem to believe a percieved "harm to society" is a greater evil than restricting an individuals personal freedom.

I may agree with this is you can prove the harm. I don't know if being gay is genetic or not, and really I don't care if it is or isn't. But I don't see a persons sexual preference having any effect on anyone other the individual themselves.

The only "harm to society" I can see is harm to the old family, white picket fence, mother at home baking muffins dream. And really you are free to build your life built on this picket fence. Neither you nor society has the right to force it on others however. And just about any argument based on "the family" is just as true for a man choosing to live life as a bachelor as it is for a gay man. In fact with the chance of unwanted pregnency the bachelor may do more "harm to society".
All posts are personal opinion.
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Adex_Xeda
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Be aware Arch, that my musings aren't founded on the initial article. The initial article triggered a "What if" thought. I've been exploring around that "What if" statement independant of the initial topic.

In short I'm off topic. HA!
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

I hear you Forthe, and you've identified the lightbulb that went off in my head when I read this article.

It's an avenue for seeing the perspective of the other guy.

I also agree that to sway many people, there would have to be convincing evidence that acting as a homosexual is harmful to society.

This is such an emotion-laced issue that even approaching this common ground to build a discussion, is hard to acheive.
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archeiron
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Post by archeiron »

Adex_Xeda wrote:Be aware Arch, that my musings aren't founded on the initial article. The initial article triggered a "What if" thought. I've been exploring around that "What if" statement independant of the initial topic.

In short I'm off topic. HA!
Bah, damnit Adex! Warriors don't have an evade ability, you should just take the frontal assault and suck it up! :P
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