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Crav
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God all mighty....(just an expression)

Post by Crav »

What kind of ass monkeys do we have running the DoD? Link

Like the article pointed out it's not that these items can't be bought by the public outside of the DoD(which is a little scary) it's just that they are selling them so cheap and with very little regard as to whom they are selling it to.

I also loved this part.
The statement said some of the protective suits "had previously been identified by DoD as defective," but they "were still circulating in the surplus supply chain."

An unknown number of defective suits were issued to state and local law enforcement agencies before being returned to the Defense Department to be disposed of, according to the statement.

The congressional source said those suits should not have been resold under any circumstances.
The whole article.
GAO: Pentagon sold biolab gear
From Chris Plante
CNN Washington Bureau


WASHINGTON (CNN) --The Defense Department sold equipment to the public that can be used for making biological warfare agents, according to a draft report by the General Accounting Office.

The Defense Department agency responsible for the sale of excess property to the public, the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service, halted the sale of such items September 19 while the practice is reviewed.

"Many items needed to establish a laboratory for making biological warfare agents were being sold on the Internet to the public from DoD's excess property inventory for pennies on the dollar, making them both easy and economical to obtain," the GAO draft report said.

"As requested, GAO established a fictitious company and purchased over the Internet key excess DoD biological equipment items and related protective clothing necessary to produce and disseminate biological warfare agents."

The GAO is the investigative arm of Congress.

A congressional source said the GAO front corporation was able to buy evaporator, incubator and centrifuge equipment that can be used to produce biological warfare agents.

It also bought 300 to 400 protective suits required for the production of biological agents, the source said.

The fictitious GAO company spent "a little over $4,000" for equipment that the Defense Department originally bought for some $46,000, according to the source and the report.

"That's less than 10 cents on the dollar," the source said.

Much if not all of the equipment sold to GAO investigators is available to the public at full price on the open market, the source said, but "we certainly don't need DoD to be a discount shop for potential bioterrorists."

He conceded that "only nominal controls" are now in place to prevent the sale of such items to the public, but at least those sales are "not with the U.S. government seal of approval [and] for pennies on the dollar."

The GAO investigation was requested by the House Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, which is a unit of the Government Reform Committee.

"According to the GAO, due to poor controls, there is little assurance excess [chemical-biological] equipment has not already fallen into the wrong hands," a subcommittee statement said.

The statement said some of the protective suits "had previously been identified by DoD as defective," but they "were still circulating in the surplus supply chain."

An unknown number of defective suits were issued to state and local law enforcement agencies before being returned to the Defense Department to be disposed of, according to the statement.

The congressional source said those suits should not have been resold under any circumstances.

The subcommittee will hold a hearing on the matter Tuesday with testimony from Pentagon officials, GAO investigators and a chemical-biological weapons expert.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

proliferation! bomb them!
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Post by kyoukan »

You can buy that kind of crap at any business that sells laboratory supplies. It's stupid to say that the DoD is encouraging bio-terrorism by selling centrifuges for cheap. It's not like some guy is sitting around bored one day and decides to become a bio-terrorist because he saw cheap lab equipment for sale on the internet.

Why is it scary they are selling lab equipment for cheap? You can use glass mayonaisse jars to create biological weapons if you wanted to. Hell I think kraft miracle whip may even be a biological weapon. Just because an item could possibly be used to create biological weapons doesn't mean they should be labelled as bio-terrorist equipment.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

WHY WOULD YOU WANT A CENTRIFUGE UNLESS YOU _ARE_ WANTING TO BE AN BIOTERRORIST!?

IF YOU WANT A CHEM SUIT IT MEANS YOU MUST HAVE CHEMICAL WEAPONS READY TO USE ANYONE CAN SEE THAT!

Hm I just can't carry this caps thing off.
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Post by Crav »

Why is it scary they are selling lab equipment for cheap?
Mostly because in a time when we should be trying to tighten restrictions on the sales of equipment that can be used to produce potentially harmful agents we are not. As I stated in the first post the scary part is that these items can be so easily gotten period, sorry my grammar was a little off on the first post. Now the fact that the DoD, the organization responsible for the defense of our country is being so lax about the sale of these items is a bit disturbing and in the very least rather ironic.
You can use glass mayonnaise jars to create biological weapons if you wanted to. Just because an item could possibly be used to create biological weapons doesn't mean they should be labelled as bio-terrorist equipment.
I am not saying that everything that can be used to make biological weapons should be labeled as bio-terrorist equipment, but what I am saying is that buying them should be more difficult at least in the sense that people should have a back ground check of some sort to buy these things. After all if I buy 100 jars of mayonnaise, people might think I'm a little weird, but if I buy 100 biochemical protective suits, I think people might want to see who I am and why I need all those suits for.
It's not like some guy is sitting around bored one day and decides to become a bio-terrorist because he saw cheap lab equipment for sale on the internet.
Again I agree with this, which is why the people selling the equipment should have some responsibility in making sure the people buying the equipment do not pose a danger to society. If someone is going to buy equipment like this more than likely they have a purpose for its use, whether it be for a benign use or not.
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Post by Raistin »

We Will find the smoking gun! LETS ROLL!
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Post by Aabidano »

I don't see what the big deal is myself, anyone with an IQ high enough to make the agents is going to be smart enough to improvise the rest of the equipment. Look at it this way, if people are buying from a source you know, at least you know who to watch :D

An airfed plastic suit is not that hard to make, and a simple pressurized containment is even easier and almost as effective. Oklahoma city was done with a fertilizer bomb wasn't it? Ban garden supplies!! And mayonaise while you're at it ('cause it's nasty)!

Someone buying a 100 is someone to look at. People buying 1 are probably makeing a "bong-suit" :)
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Post by Voronwë »

the items that were listed are common yeah so what.

yeah for $10k anybody can set up a "biological laboratory"

even if you can make anthrax (the easiest of them probably), you still can't weponize it with cheap, readily available lab equipment.

http://www.fishersci.com sells all kinds of stuff from biohazard suits to microcentrifuges. but so what. saying that has anything to do with bioterrorism is like saying that because i have a spoon and a stove that i freebase cocaine.
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Post by Forthe »

Someone needs to go back and find the posts about Iraq's chemical suits being proof of WMD.

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Post by vn_Tanc »

Someone needs to go back and find the posts about Iraq's chemical suits being proof of WMD
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Post by Xouqoa »

Voronwë wrote:i have a spoon and a stove that i freebase cocaine [with].
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Post by Voronwë »

lol i obviously need to work w/ my publicist!!
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Post by kyoukan »

Aabidano wrote:Oklahoma city was done with a fertilizer bomb wasn't it? Ban garden supplies!!
Well that type of fertilizer (I don't remember what kind it was.. pottasium sulphate or something) is fairly controlled. They don't sell it to just anyone. I think McVeigh stole his or something; I can't remember.
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Post by kyoukan »

Crav wrote:Again I agree with this, which is why the people selling the equipment should have some responsibility in making sure the people buying the equipment do not pose a danger to society. If someone is going to buy equipment like this more than likely they have a purpose for its use, whether it be for a benign use or not.
I generally agree with your posts but I think the government doing a background check on me or the FBI setting up a surveillance van outside my house because I bought a cheap centrifuge off them is going a bit too far. The only possible example of domestic bio-terrorism I can think of is the possibility that the anthrax letter guy was from the US, although that has yet to be proven. Even if he was domestic he certainly didn't make the anthrax himself in a basement laboratory.
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Post by Aabidano »

One of the guys they've recently caught making anthrax, did it from a sample he dug up in OK(I think). It had been 15 feet underground and dormant since the early '50s when the cows were killed, burned and buried.
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