Texas University Shuts Down Bake Sale with Race based prices

[Aaeamdar]

The real tragedy is that the black student's complained, rather than seizing the obvious economic opportunity at hand. What they should have done was bought the cookies and resold them to anyone for 49 cents. They would have made a killing.

[Krimson Klaw]

I used to find him entertaining too until I read what kyou said about him making the white race being ruined statements. I did some more searches on things he has said in the past, and he can kiss my ass.

you can always take solace in the fact that his real name is micheal weiner.

Yea I found it odd too that he was basically an anti-semite, but jewish himself, wth is that all about?

[Chidoro]

You dumbass, noone said anything about 'equal ground'.


READ THE GODDAMNED POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND!

You should take your advice, the article is about the inequity.

SO GO AHEAD AND READ THE ARTICLE AGAIN YOU DOLT!

[Ceredwin]

Anyone in the US can go anyplace they want in life provided they are willing to work for it.

I am sorry, but this just is not true. Have you ever met a family with both parents working minimum wage jobs and barely making it? Go and ask them if they can go anyplace they want to live? Do you think the migrant workers out in the fields can do whatever they want? Can you say that they don't work as hard as anyone else in this country?[/quote]



Yes, I have. My parents' families were dirt poor and lived in Irish slums; mother's from Hell's Kitchen, father's from Webster Ave in the Bronx. My maternal grandmother scrubbed floors in her church and rectory to make up for her husband's salary and to send her girls to parochial school. My mother then worked and put herself through city college. Later, when my father became disabled she worked and went to night school to get her master's degree in her 40's.

My paternal grandmother tossed her alcholic husband out, got a low level clerk job for the government to support her elderly mother and her son. He also worked and paid his way for a master's degree.

Admittedly, it is easier when you can speak English, even if still looked down upon by WASPs, so how about my husband's family. They came from Italy in the early part of the 20th century (he is older than me and from his father's second marriage) Their children learned English in school, none went beyond HS, some of them only grade school, but all 5 sons worked thier asses off and each wound up starting thier own small businesses. Thier children worked and went to city universities. This is how it is done.

None of these people were embraced with open arms by our society, but you work hard and overcome stigma of ethnicity and poverty.

Edit: Messed up the quote, second one was from Crav.

[Ceredwin]

The group sold three cookies during its protest, raising $1.50.

How many different cookie combinations are possible? Class?

Either one for $1.00 and one for $.50, one for $1.00 and 2 for $.25, or three for $.50.

This attention seeking stunt will do nothing to change AA policies, the only redress is through the courts.

[Chidoro]

That's a nice story, inspirational really. I'm sure there are a lot of families, including my own, that had similar experiences back in the early 1900's as first generation immigrants.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the issue raised regarding undergraduate college admissions and the inequity that exists between school systems in preparation for such.

[Kylere]

I said. "Anyone in the US can go anyplace they want in life provided they are willing to work for it. "

Crav babbled, "I am sorry, but this just is not true. Have you ever met a family with both parents working minimum wage jobs and barely making it? Go and ask them if they can go anyplace they want to live? Do you think the migrant workers out in the fields can do whatever they want? Can you say that they don't work as hard as anyone else in this country?"

1. I did not say they could live wherever they wanted on minimum wage, nor did I imply it, nor could it have been easily assumed without a serious stretch from that sentence
2. If two people are both working minimum wage jobs and popping out kids, then guess what, THEY DECIDED TO DO IT. No one held a gun to their heads and made them fuck and breed like animals, they did it. Not my fault, not societies, and if they want to fix it they need night school.
3. How many citizens are migrant workers? Now ask me once again if I give a fuck about illegal aliens. That is such a dumbass question that I am amazed you did not edit it out. Subtract the illegals and the people choosing to be migrant workers could demand a higher pay scale. Only idiots want their to be fewer jobs more people.

But in any case, there are Pell Grants, College loans, education assistance in 99999393939 diff forms, and bored tuition assistance advisors all over the bloody country. I know 2 people who do it for a living, and you knbow what, they get pissed at how much money is wasted because no one applies for it.

You can be what you are willing to work to be in this country, it will not be handed to you unless fools have their way.

[Silvarel Mistmoon]

There is a huge difference in school systems through out this country. As a parent and as a former teacher assistant sub I got a close up view of it.

Here where I live is considered second school system in the state of Alabama, second to MTN Brook Alabama where they have ZERO low income families or children attending their schools. Am I rich? No. I work, recently bought my own hair salon, my husband works for a natural gas company and does not wear a suit and tie. We do not spend money on smokes, drinks or drugs. We rarely go out and when we go to the movies it is the early show for the lower price. We own two cars, one we bought when our daughter was 3 she is 14 now its a escort wagon, the other a mini van we bought used last year. Our house is nice in a very safe area and we paid 3Xs what the same house would have cost in most parts of this state.
The point to that is we give up a lot just so our kids can get a very good education. It does matter. This system test on a national level and they compete in Math and Science on a national level. We do have low income families that have children in our school. We have children that receive free or reduced lunchs in our schools and we have bussed in students. BUT our system demands, DEMANDS each and every student work hard. We have a strick dress code and hair code and it is enforced. There is no excuses for a bad enviorment.

Each school in the country should have the same text books, they same materials to teach from and should have the same amount of money given to them for hiring teachers. ALL teachers should have the same training from colleges. We should not allow our schools to have the violence that is in them, we should not let parents walk in to a school and bully the teachers and admins when they have a child that is disrespecting the teachers or and admin.

Yes the area I live in has a high proberty tax and I pay mine. That is what feeds our system and our city puts the schools first. We do not even have buss systems except for the bused in schools and our city pays for that.
Now let me point out somethings some of you with out children might not really understand or know.............

I pay high taxes to live here so my kids can go to school here.....
I pay about 2 hundred a year to get my kids registered in the schools here....
I drive my kids to and from school every day because I don't have bus service.....
My kids pay full price for their lunchs......if I don't have the money then I make their lunch...
My kids pay full price for everything at these school, nothing is given to them......

Our system has to bus in students from another town....
Their parents do not pay any taxes in to our system.....
Their parents do not have to drive them, they are offered bus service at our expense....
IF they qualify they get free lunch or reduced lunch.....
They can get reduced prices or free or billed for registration to our school system...........

Now you explain to me again why this is fair?

Do I dislike these kids? No I don't, I do want all children to have a good education but when I see with my own eyes parents that are lazy and holding their hands out (not all but there are plenty) it piss's me off to no end. Get your ass out of bed and take care of your kids! Put your smokes in the trash throw out the beer and booze and get your self clean! And for the love of Pete stop blaming it on everyone else!
Yes there are obstacles but I have seen and heard of women with 5 children living in a shack put their kids through college.
IF you have children teach them to respect everyone not to hold their hands out and not to expect anything to be handed to them.
If your children act out or get involved with the wrong kids put a stop to it ASAP! MEET YOUR CHILDRENS FRIENDS AND THEIR PARENTS!

Nothing is easy in life but it is easier to obtain a good life here then in a lot of countries.
We need to stop listening to those that would have you believe that all blacks are stupid or all black men just populate their race and don't take being a father serious and we need to remember all black women do not have a problem with crack.
This is what media and liberals want you to believe so you get fed this crap all the time. How is anyone suppose to get pass this crap when its fed to them daily? HOW do you ever expect all people to be equal if you keep seperating them?

[Chidoro]

A liberal would have you believe that about black people? Seriously, you say you don't do drugs but I'm having a hard time believing it.

You bust your hump and purchased a house for 3x the value for the schools, that's great. Do the children that get bused in perform to standards or is that waived? Is this a public school that requires dress codes?

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I pay higher property taxes than even you. I don't have children. Is that fair to me? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but you just can't get blood from a stone. If you don't earn enough to live in your area should the children suffer not getting a solid education? Doesn't that seem a tad counterproductive. You don't feel that would perpetuate a class that will be unable to exceed via education?

[Sueven]

You guys are misunderstanding Chidoro's tutoring story.

The point wasn't that the opportunity was there for her.

The point was that she was a very bright girl, obviously equipped to succeed. She was fourth in her high school class. SHE SCORED A 900 ON HER SAT'S. She wasn't able to get into college without taking this class that Chidoro was offering, and regardless, she likely wasn't able to get into a good school.

I was 39th in my class. I scored a 1350 on my SAT's and pretty much had my pick of colleges beyond the first ivy league and equivelant teir.

It is not the fault of that girl that she went to a poor school district. Could her parents have worked hard, made sacrifices, and potentially moved into a better district, sacrificing everything else for their daughters education? Maybe. But they didn't. And there's absolutely nothing she can do about it. She worked as hard as her resources and situation allowed her, and she still got a 900 on her SAT's and had to take extra courses to get into college.

This means that grades and SAT's and other traditional benchmarks of college entry are not entirely meaningful. This girl is probably a better student than me. I don't know if she's smarter or not, but she probably works harder. However, because I come from a white, upperclass neighborhood, I showed colleges what they want to see, which is less a matter of intelligence and more a matter of being from a white, upperclass neighborhood.

A college cannot just "admit the most qualified applicants," because there is no real way to tell who is qualified.

How anyone can ignore that and blindly rail against affirmative action is beyond me.

[Aabidano]

How anyone can ignore that and blindly rail against affirmative action is beyond me.

I don't think anyone was blindly railing against AA. It is discrimination. You can't argue that base point.

My primary point was that anyone who wants to succeed, will. Some definately have a rougher road than others, that's life. Take what you have and make the best you can of it. There's always an option.

I used to work with folks that lived in and around the projects in downtown St Louis. They knew they could live better and cheaper out in the county, have decent schools for their kids and not get shot at. They chose not too. Usually "Because all my friends are here" or fear of moving. To hell with that, make new friends.

[Sueven]

So basically, if I'm born black and born poor, then I really have no logical chance to succeed because all of our institutions of higher education have nonsensical admissions policies that are completely incapable of recognizing what I bring to the table, so I will be forced to struggle and scrap all my life, and eventually perhaps realize some success near the end of it, when, if I were white, I would just be able to cruise through my high school, show colleges what they want to see, and be thrust into a position where I'm able to be immediately successful, and that's life?

And there's a system in place that, while it is certainly not perfect, does an awful lot to help rectify these problems, but we should get rid of that system, because apparently that system isn't life?

Holy fucking shit.

[Aabidano]

I really think some people need a lesson in reading comprehension.

[Sueven]

Then teach me!

[kyoukan]

white people complaining about discrimination is just fucking stupid enough to not be funny.

[Drasta]

white people are the most descriminated aganist in the USA because anything that could possiblely be considered "white" oreniated every single minority group throws a fucking piss fit until something is done about it.

the minorities however can have their own racial kinds of things like scholarships .... could you imagen what kinda stuff would be said if there was a white male only scholarship? no one says anything to the minorities because they would be called racists and all that bullshit

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Get a tutor.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

white people complaining about discrimmination is just fucking stupid enough to not be funny.

Discrimination against anyone is wrong, period. The problem is that AA does not care at all about qualifications. If you have a job opening and you do not meet federal guidelines for minority hirings, you could have the perfect candidate in front of you and be unable to hire them merely because they are white. That not only looks and sounds like a duck, its shit tastes like a duck.

I am sure there are plenty of disreputable companies out there that discriminate against blacks or hispanics or whatever. That has no bearing in federally mandated discrimination. Those companies need to be taken to court and fined until their balls bleed. The fact is that AA does nothing but hurt those companies who do not discriminate, yet are forced to hire substandard employees merely because they fit a race description.

[kyoukan]

white people are the most descriminated aganist in the USA because anything that could possiblely be considered "white" oreniated every single minority group throws a fucking piss fit until something is done about it.

the minorities however can have their own racial kinds of things like scholarships .... could you imagen what kinda stuff would be said if there was a white male only scholarship? no one says anything to the minorities because they would be called racists and all that bullshit

would you fuck off out of my forum you stupid knob

[Skogen]

white people are the most descriminated aganist in the USA

OMG. First, the whole thing on the general board about encouraging opprotunistic lawsuit on Zamtuks part for his accident, and now this!

How the hell did you turn out like this?

[kyoukan]

Discrimination against anyone is wrong, period. The problem is that AA does not care at all about qualifications. If you have a job opening and you do not meet federal guidelines for minority hirings, you could have the perfect candidate in front of you and be unable to hire them merely because they are white. That not only looks and sounds like a duck, its shit tastes like a duck.

I am sure there are plenty of disreputable companies out there that discriminate against blacks or hispanics or whatever. That has no bearing in federally mandated discrimination. Those companies need to be taken to court and fined until their balls bleed. The fact is that AA does nothing but hurt those companies who do not discriminate, yet are forced to hire substandard employees merely because they fit a race description.

I don't neccesarily disagree and I don't see AA as a long term solution to the problem of not enough diversity in society but as a stop gap measure I think pragmatically it's doing it's job pretty well. AA isn't about equality. It's about giving minorities an opportunity at education and jobs that were previously unavailable to them.

I'm sure a lot of qualified white men miss out on opportunities they may have had without AA around and a lot of unqualified gender and ethnic minorities are given opportunities they may not deserve, but without AA around then the opposite is true. How many qualified women or black people would get passed up for college and jobs in favor of someone else? The only thing AA does is reverse it a little. It also serves its purpose of conditioning people to be more used to seeing gender and ethnic minorities around in the workplace that aren't either secretaries or janitors.

White males represent something like 30% of the entire work force in the united states yet even with affirmative action they still occupy 90% of all management positions and basically 99% of all CEO type executive management positions. Is it because white males are smarter and better at making money than everyone else or are there other reasons? Do white men just excel at management or is it because they control most of the money and tend to hire their own kind?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Well my best solution is not a short term one and I can almost guarantee it would not do any good. Of course the government of the U.S. would never do anything of the kind.

First, the U.S. is exporting their jobs out to countries where people will work cheap. This is all just great to line the pockets of the companies, but it cripples the economy as the U.S. citizens have less disposable income to spend to stimulate the economy. Solution: penalize companies that export jobs out of the U.S. Target the money generated from fines to train American workers for jobs that would be exported

Second, cut back heavily on foreign aid and target that money for the school systems.

Third, privatize school systems and go to the voucher system. Yes this could well lead to some segregation. If left to their own means, people will segregate themselves for the most part. It does not mean they are racist, but people are normally more comfortable being surrounded by people they identify with.

Fourth, institute a teacher rotation among school systems. What I mean is to have a group of 4 or 5 schools that have some overlap and teachers will be assigned to each school for 1-3 years. The bad teachers won't be able to stay around with that much exposure. No one could say that one school was getting less than another.

Fifth, make an effort to get the kids to want to learn. Being intelligent is not "cool". Speaking some unintelligible language and being a complete moron is what most of the kids in the inner cities seem to want these days. They need to boot the bad apples out from the start and then let them earn their way back in when they are ready to be productive. They are a terrible influence on kids who would otherwise be interested in bettering themselves.

[Silvarel Mistmoon]

Chidoro
You missed the points I was saying. Let me repeat...............

ALL of the schools in this country should be on the same level so that all children can learn and have the same chances as their peers.

Yes my kids go to public school.
I think if your kid gets a free ride in school and you do not hold a full time job then you should have to be at the school volunteering your time.

Also another thing for all you single guys or married with out kids, you have every right to get involved in your schools that are in your system. You pay taxes that help those schools out so get involved keep updated on your system and go to the board when you feel like they arent doing what they should be doing with your taxes.

I think I was trying to agree with you on the point that it does matter what kind of school system your children attend. And college is getting harder and harder to get in to.

[Chidoro]

Who cares what they do with my taxes, the fact that they even take them is more of an inequity than forcing people who can't afford you taxes or property value into volunteer roles. However, it's a necessary evil and I expect that when I decided to continue to live in the state with the highest property taxes and an area w/in the state that pays even higher than that average.

One could say that trying to raise children IS a full time job. Just because you bust your ass doesn't mean that others aren't. Just because you see them get a "free ride" doesn't mean they aren't working hard.

Trust me hun, I understood everything you said, it's not exactly rocket science.

[Xzion]

Success in the US is more luck then any hard work involved,
...its a matter of who you happen to meet and when, and your race can obviously effect that
hard work takes a far backseat to luck

[Aaeamdar]

Absurd. I suppose that is a nice lie an unsuccesful person might want to tell himself, but it is just not possible (or rather, highly improbable). What you are essentially stating is that the most economically successful and technologically advanced culture in the world is just a product of a whole bunch of very lucky people. To say that luck has nothing to do with anything and that the US is a pure meritocracy would be equally absurd. There are pleanty of things that contribute to an individual's success apart from ability, but few things so readily contribute to an inidivual's failures as lack of talent or lack of work ethic. Other factors, including luck, certainly factor in, by in large talented hard working people are generally successful and lazy and stupid people typically fail.

[Aaeamdar]

As usual, Kyuoken finds her ass to be the best place from which to pull facts.

According to the U. S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Report on Women in the Workplace - "Women comprised 43 percent of total employed in the executive, administrative and managerial occupations in 1995."

[Zaelath]

Absurd. I suppose that is a nice lie an unsuccesful person might want to tell himself, but it is just not possible (or rather, highly improbable). What you are essentially stating is that the most economically successful and technologically advanced culture in the world is just a product of a whole bunch of very lucky people. To say that luck has nothing to do with anything and that the US is a pure meritocracy would be equally absurd. There are pleanty of things that contribute to an individual's success apart from ability, but few things so readily contribute to an inidivual's failures as lack of talent or lack of work ethic. Other factors, including luck, certainly factor in, by in large talented hard working people are generally successful and lazy and stupid people typically fail.

The success of the US as a nation can greatly be attributed to its natural wealth however... you have both oil and vast tracts of arable land, not something you see in too many countries, and certainly not to the extent found in the US.

Also, even attributes that people say allowed someone to "rise above" their lot in life are either a product of genetics or nurture. Which means you were either lucky enough to be the product of the right sexual union, or you were lucky enough to hang out with the right people in your formative years.

Much of life's rich tapestry can be attributed to luck, and if you don't believe that, it's just the control freak in you coming out.

[kyoukan]

As usual, Kyuoken finds her ass to be the best place from which to pull facts.

According to the U. S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Report on Women in the Workplace - "Women comprised 43 percent of total employed in the executive, administrative and managerial occupations in 1995."

that includes clerical work, moron. you think women alone represent almost half the managerial positions in the country?

[Marbus]

Where I work we don't have "managers" per se. However in the leadership positions, including team leads (which are like managers) I would say about 1/3 of them are women. Which to me seems about right considering 2/3 of the people I work with their wives don't work at all... no statistical proof on this stuff though.

I will say that we recently closed a deal with a very large publisher and in that company women held both the top two positions. The were a larger percentage of guys working for them than women but hey, they had the power.

Just obervations...

Marb

[Krimson Klaw]

2 of the 3 area managers at my job are female, and 10 of the 17 floor managers are female and half of those are minorities. Dell is pretty diversified though. Obviously I can only speak for my job and not the entire nation.

[Aaeamdar]

that includes clerical work, moron.

Heh. Typical of you. Didn't both to look up the report did you? Just decided that if you interpretted the word "administrative" to include clerical workers (in spite of that reading making no sense in the context) that it would better fit your world view. In fact, the study does not include clerical workers. Would not make much sence to include secretaries in the pool of "executives, administrators and managers" in a study about women in management positions would it? Here are some more references for your lazy self to go look at (not that you will, since again that would conflict with the way you see the world - a world where the Russians out numbered the Nazis 20:1 and where women only make up the smallest fraction of managers). But, just in case - here you are:

http://www.dol.gov/asp/programs/history ... eiling.pdf

http://www.dol.gov/asp/programs/history ... iling2.pdf

And here is a website with links to many of the supporting documents:

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/library/keyW ... eport.html

Arguing with you is getting excessively simple. Your pattern is fixed. You have this feeling that there is some problem or injustice out there. Often, that reaction is correct (as it is in this case), but you lack any real knowledge of anything you like to propound on at length. For whatever reason you just refuse to put any effort into learning what the situation is nd have support for your statements. Instead you just go off half-cocked and make shit up that supports your view. When people show you you are wrong you interpret their referenced facts in some wierd manner and start calling people names. You are pretty much the Bill O'Reilley of this message board. A know-nothing blowhard without a shred of truth to support your opinions.

Now, you could have come out here and used truth to argue the very real problem that women in identical possitions to men make less and that even though women make up a large portion of management (they do and in fact they make up a disproportionately large fraction of management when considering the portion of the overall workplace they occupy), that they make up only the smallest fraction of those possitions at the very top (that number is, btw, 3-5% based on 1994 numbers, not the fraction of 1% you suggest). Those are issues that need addressing (or at least recognizing). That is truth. That would have been as powerful (well, actually more so given that it is true) as the exagerated complete BS you spewed out above. Alternatively, you could have skipped the sex issue altogether and focused on whites (as opposed to white men). You can get some of those impressive single digit numbers if you focus exclusively on race and not on sex (but, of course, you then also have to account for the relatively smaller numbers of racial minorities in the general population that helps, but does not completely, explain that disparity).

At anyrate, there are good arguements out there to support your general possition. It amazes me that you continue to prefer complete fabrication as a means of supporting your possitions.

[kyoukan]

So basically what you're saying is that I am right, but you are so unbelievably petty and have some weird self righteous crusade against me that you deem it neccesary to write 17 paragraph posts detailing that although I am right, the numbers I provide to support my position are in your opinion not correct?

what a pretentious git.

Yes I am really shocked a government funded study on affirmative action slants their statistics by including clerical jobs in with upper managerial positions.

Your own goddam link (which I guess you didn't read all of) pretty much states my position perfectly on page iii and iv. Too bad you're too lazy to do much else but google for something that says somethign relevant to what you mashed into your keyboard and blindly link it hoping that nobody is bored enough to actually read your entire posts.

[Aaeamdar]

No,
What the document says on those pages is that the catagories are broader than they would have liked for a "glass ceiling" study. It says nothing about administrators being secretaries. To the contrary, it makes rather clear that clerical staff is not included in the catagory "administrator" when it discusses Administrative support as distinct from administrators and includes a definition of administraive support in a parentheical as "(secrataries)."

What I suspect, but can't prove because the documents do not themselves explain why they think that catagories are overly broad is that it does not like positions such as postmaster, fast food management, retail management, etc. in managers. It probably (rightly) feels that such positions, while they are management, are not suficiently lofty to indicate a lack of a glass ceiling. Since, however, the study includes no inidication one way or the other as to whether women are the predominate managers in such positions, it is impossible to conclude that the study is producing inflated numbers of what we might consider relevant to the glass ceiling.

The study notes this as a problem with its dataset, but moves on from there with that data being the best it had available. Somehow you have concluded from those notes a vindication of your position that the study included clerical staff in its "Executive, administrative or managerial" positions. That, like your previous out of the blue numbers, is a complete fabrication.

[Aaeamdar]

I do not, btw, have some wierd personal crusade against you. You are simply extremely irritating in the way you argue your points. You remind me of O'Rielly or Hannity on the right or Susan Estrich or James Carvel on the left.

You have some opinion. You routinely make up things and state them as fact in support of your opinions. You never bother referencing any of it (because "Kyuoken's ass" is not a generally accepted reliable information source - at least not on most topics). They are essentially lies designed to make the lazy or meek accept your arguements. It's stupid debating against such a person, so the only thing left is to show you for the fraud you are. If you stop doing this sort of thing then I'll start debating you more on the real issues, not just your factual mistatements.

[kyoukan]

are you a complete retard? your own goddam link proves my statistics (that I apaprently pulled out of my ass) perfectly 100% correct. read the fucking thing.

jesus god you are deluded or something.

and, btw, it is a personal crusade, because I didn't even know who the fuck you were until I called you one of those whiny, smarmy knowitall athiests that deserve to be strangled and from then on you've essentially replied to every post I've made with 900 paragraph monsters and dodgy google links in some vain effort to disprove everything I say. It's pretty fucking transparent. you aren't talking to your mom now or whatever passive moron you're used to applying your pretentious community college verbal suffering on, so I don't exactly how you think you are going to get away with it with me.

but hey keep up the crusade. you can join the hall of heroes with atokal and cartalas as they fight the good fight against me.

[Rivera Bladestrike]

Don't you wish Kyoukan would be hit by a train or have a sudden heart attack?

[Sionistic]

i dont think a train could take her out

[vn_Tanc]

No way. Kyou is my lager-woman from Hell, may she never change

Anyway I read all this and all I can surmise is that anyone can get anywhere with enough hard work, but if youre a poorly educated minority that amount of hard work is 3-10x greater than a well educated non-minority.

Your system for funding schools just sounds like institutional ghettoisation. A method for maintaining an underclass across generations. As someone raised under the quaint, slightly socialist idea of a comprehensive education provided for all, regardless of background, I find it shocking.

[Fallanthas]

Anyway I read all this and all I can surmise is that anyone can get anywhere with enough hard work, but if youre a poorly educated minority that amount of hard work is 3-10x greater than a well educated non-minority.

Poorly educated people, minority or not are going to have 3-10x more trouble making it.

[vn_Tanc]

Yes, but if I point out that minorities are likely to have more problems to overcome than a similarly educated whitey then we're just back at square one regarding this particular discussion aren't we?

The simple fact is that if you're white your face "fits" more easily than if not. That's as true in my country as in yours. I'm not even going to argue this because it's true and anyone who wants to pick up on it is either wrong or trying to derail the argument. Erm I mean discussion

Another point: The alternative to AA is to remove all barriers to opportunity based on any criterion other than merit. That way the problem will solve itself, though it will take time. Of course you then need to give everyone an equal chance at developing a meritorious state of being.
This is of course "all ready the case" in the same way that multicultural integration and equal rights for all are "all ready the case".

[Sionistic]

I dont agree with AA, but i think whats wrong is just how its given. I think someone posted this before, just change aa so that its an option only available to minorities, but they have to earn it.

[Fallanthas]

Another point: The alternative to AA is to remove all barriers to opportunity based on any criterion other than merit. That way the problem will solve itself, though it will take time. Of course you then need to give everyone an equal chance at developing a meritorious state of being.

Exactly. Not easy to do, but the only solution that will support the tag 'fair'.

[Kylere]

I do not wish an unacceptably painful or random death on Kyoukan