Patriot Act...

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 18, 2003, 11:57 am

Maybe I'm just an open person. Yes, I believe in privacy, but there are some things that I just don't give a shit about. Come on.. daily in and out we're subjected to polls and questionaires and even tax forms that ask you what type of car you drive (among other things).

Sorry if that makes me short sighted or deemed stupid by the posters in this thread, but damn. Do you guys think that maybe you're stressing about this a little too much?

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 18, 2003, 12:01 pm

The problems with drug laws are entirely the fault of the voting populace.

The problems with privacy issues are entirely the fault of the voting populace.

If you do not agree with them, then get your fat lazy ass of the chair, log off of Everquest and go vote, otherwise I kindly suggest you STFU.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 18, 2003, 12:03 pm

Not really Alkaran. Those bits and pieces of freedoms you relinquish add up to make a big deal in the long run. C'mon, you had your first taste of this as a kid when your teacher made you watch Animal Farm. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the patriot act, I'm just saying they have a right to be paranoid about any type of loss of freedoms.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » September 18, 2003, 12:04 pm

Kylere wrote:The problems with drug laws are entirely the fault of the voting populace.

The problems with privacy issues are entirely the fault of the voting populace.

If you do not agree with them, then get your fat lazy ass of the chair, log off of Everquest and go vote, otherwise I kindly suggest you STFU.

were you talking to me? Just to let you know i dont play eq anymore, and i only turned 18 this last march. I also fully intend to vote as much as I can.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 18, 2003, 1:13 pm

I'm active in the political process, I'll bitch all I want.

'Dar: You're right, it's not the fault of the patriot act that these things exist. They're problems that have been in place long before. The patriot act does, however, compound the problem.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 18, 2003, 2:05 pm

Sionistic wrote:
Kylere wrote:The problems with drug laws are entirely the fault of the voting populace.

The problems with privacy issues are entirely the fault of the voting populace.

If you do not agree with them, then get your fat lazy ass of the chair, log off of Everquest and go vote, otherwise I kindly suggest you STFU.
were you talking to me? Just to let you know i dont play eq anymore, and i only turned 18 this last march. I also fully intend to vote as much as I can.

More of a general thing Sionistic, too many people want to whine about the government then every November you see them sitting at home and NOT voting.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » September 18, 2003, 5:47 pm

The USA PATRIOT act is evil.

The funniest thing about the USA PATRIOT act is that it's an acronym (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism).

No, really.

The scariest thing about the act is that it's overbroad, vague, and gives law enforcement and federal agencies unprecedented power to invade the privacy of Americans. Atty Gen'l Ashcroft is playing this up as a means to preserve the liberties of Americans. I'd like to see the theorem for how he proves that.

Ashur, you know from your experiences as I do that this law directly contradicts many aspects of the Privacy Act. Working at a bank in the face of these legal issues is the total suck.

Also, when this act was passed (directly after 9/11/01), no legislator in his right mind would have voted against this. The DOJ took advantage of a politically charged and emotional time in American history to push through a law that restricts the freedoms and privacy of Americans as never before.

Mort · Post by **Mort** » September 18, 2003, 6:00 pm

I heard on the radio this morning that because of the "Library Uproar" this has created, Ashcroft will be declassifying a lot of it. Can't fnd anything via google yet... but it's coming.

**Edit OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS**

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 18, 2003, 6:33 pm

The scariest thing about the patriot act is that our goverment approved of and passed such a poorly worded, wide-open piece of shit legislation....

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » September 18, 2003, 8:45 pm

WASHINGTON, DC—President Bush spoke out Monday in support of a revised version of the 2001 USA Patriot Act that would make it illegal to read the USA Patriot Act. "Under current federal law, there are unreasonable obstacles to investigating and prosecuting acts of terrorism, including the public's access to information about how the federal police will investigate and prosecute acts of terrorism," Bush said at a press conference Monday. "For the sake of the American people, I call on Congress to pass this important law prohibiting access to itself." Bush also proposed extending the rights of states to impose the death penalty "in the wake of Sept. 11 and stuff."

Had to repost this!

The Onion

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 18, 2003, 9:07 pm

Everyone should be worried about this act. If you don't know why go to the library and get a copy of "Rise and Fall of the Thrid Reich." It starts out slow, doing things that are obviously "Patriotic" over time can easily be corrupted. The German citizens of the early part of this century were just as smart, just as educated (if not more so) than almost any other country in the world, including the US. Don't believe that kind of crap can't happen again somewhere else when people don't question and put blind faith in their leaders.

Bush seemed to be doing a good job IMHO until this, I even supported the War but I don't like being lied too. Sure OF COURSE there are things I don't know and won't know and probably don't really NEED to know... but I still don't like being mislead or lied too. Hell the Republicans got all up in arms cause Clinton lied about a blow but people just seem to ignore the stuff about Iraq and any revelation about where these infringements on our freedoms are leading... <sigh>

Marb

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » September 19, 2003, 1:47 pm

Jacob Sullum's latest piece on the Patriot act.

http://www.reason.com/sullum/091903.shtml

In a recent memo to FBI Director Robert Mueller, the attorney general said he had decided to correct misconceptions about Section 215, which authorizes the FBI to demand "any tangible thing" upon certifying to a secret court that it's relevant to a terrorism investigation. "The number of times Section 215 has been used to date is zero," Ashcroft said.

If there hasn't been cause for it to be used in the two years since it was instituted maybe we can do without it then?

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 19, 2003, 2:08 pm

Jacob Sullum?

Deward · Post by **Deward** » September 22, 2003, 10:18 am

As other people have said, it is the small rights that we can't give up. They add up after a while. What if a burglar told you that if you let him tie you up then he wouldn't do anything else to you. Would you let him tie you up. What if he just wanted to tie up one hand. Then maybe another. Before you know it you can't move and you are helpless.

Point is you can't let the government take any rights or they will take more and more. It is kind of like the Anti-abortionists. They want to first stop late terms. Then they will go after midterms, and before you know it it will be illegal to use a morning after pill. As much as I personally agree that late-terms are bad, I will fight to give a woman the right to perform one.

Oh and if you aren't a voter then kindly shut the fuck up and go away. You have no business saying anything. People who aren't involved in the voting process caused the mess we are in today.

Fairweather Pure · September 22, 2003, 10:40 am

Why do you care if the government looks at what books you take out of the library?

Simply put, information is power, and power corrupts. It is actually the collecting of seemingly mundane, ordinary information that concerns me the most. If a government body knew the personal interests, buying habits, personal priorities, ect. of every American, then we can be easily minipulated. As a people, we could be controlled like Pavlov's dog on a grand scale. They just have to know what bell to ring. Recently, it worked with the invasion of Iraq just by hitting the proper tone with the core populace. Reason, justice, and responsibility went right out the window.

I could simply reverse the question and ask "Why does the government want to know what you read at the librabry?". That question is a bit more concerning than yours IMO.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 22, 2003, 11:10 am

It is actually the collecting of seemingly mundane, ordinary information that concerns me the most.

I'm going to take the opposite view here. The more time the government spends worrying about which brand of toilet paper I prefer, the better the chances of them burying themselves in minutiae.

You can't really hide in the electronic age. Second best would be a 12" thick manila folder full of bullshit.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » September 22, 2003, 5:21 pm

goddamit i hate this country and sometimes even democracy pisses me off
if only we had a good libertarian dictator that said "you can do whatever the fuck you want, just dont hurt anyone else" and no dumbshit geriatric voters could change that...