Rich Waters Post on Cleric Board

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 23, 2002, 10:01 am

http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/sho ... adid=11173

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Lately, we've been working up some changes to help balance out the cleric class. This is important to get done before Planes of Power, as it's the foundation for the growing role of priest classes in the future of EverQuest. The goals behind these changes are to -

- Provide clerics with useful group and raid roles as other priests gain raid quality healing
- Decrease the cleric's mandatory dependancy on grouping for any reasonable gain
- Increase the level of variety and interest involved in playing a cleric

The first part of the change was to add the following spells -
- Hammer of Judgement - CLR/56 (summon a hammer with a powerful and frequent proc effect)
- Yaulp V - CLR/56 (self only melee and mana regen buff. Adds haste, dexterity, mana regen, and stamina regen)

These spells are useful in allowing the cleric to do a new form of combat damage. Clerics use the new Yaulp spell to gain melee haste, standing mana regeneration, and increased Dexterity. This helps out a great deal by allowing the cleric to use their new summoned hammer at peak efficiency.

The summoned hammer is a unique weapon in that it has a very high proc frequency, doing 75-150 damage per proc. This allows clerics to do reasonable melee style damage by relying on the procs alone. The cleric's pet "Unswerving Hammer of Faith" has had it's mana cost and casting time lowered, as well as it's effectiveness upgraded. The hammer pet cannot be riposted or effected by spells, though it is rapidly killed if no one is tanking for it. The hammer pet still poofs after each combat, but for the new price of 250 mana, it adds an amount of damage that's very competitive with other damage-over-time spells.

Using Yaulp + the Hammer of Judgement, the cleric begins to be effective in toe-to-toe combat. Other supporting spells available to the cleric are his low cost summoned pet, and the Mark of Retribution/Mark of Karn spells. Using a combination of these spells, along with the clerics excellent buffs give surprisingly good results. In testing, clerics have been effective soloing the entrance to Charasis and Chardok, grouping in a number of high end dungeons, and even making reasonable experience as a two-cleric duo in Cazic-Thule.

This upgrade allows clerics a new style of relatively effective soloing, as well as some excellent options to add value in groups. While this may not be sufficient to get clerics into groups by itself, it does add significant value and allows even multi-cleric groups to be profitable. Fairly extensive play-testing, both by game designers and clerics on test have proven these spells to be effective, and perhaps more importantly, very entertaining to use.

In addition to the added spells, we'll be trying out the Bash skill for Clerics, beginning at level 25. While this skill will cap out lower than their melee counterparts, clerics should still get a decent amount of value out of this addition. It adds a bit of damage as well as a free chance to stun opponents. This also works well with the recent improvements to shields on Test, that give a meaningful boost to armor class, in addition to a chance to block incoming blows.

The following heal spells were added to the cleric class -
- Ethereal Elixir - CLR/60 (group version of the Celestial Elixir heal-over-time spell)
- Ethereal Light - CLR/58 (upgraded version of Divine Light single target heal)
- Ethereal Remedy - CLR/59 (upgraded version of Remedy single target heal)

These spells are not expected to add a great deal of power to clerics, as clerical healing is already more than sufficient. These spells are all minor but useful upgrades to existing clerical heals. The goal with these spells is to round out a cleric's healing versatility and allow them to tailor their memmed healing line-up to whatever adventuring situation they find themselves in. With this large selection of healing spells, clerics are able to fit various situations more efficiently than any other class.

It's important that clerics maintain their role as the premier healer of the game. Raid quality heals are being added for other priests to allow them to fulfill their role as secondary healers in most situations. Clerics have always been a healing specialist, but the situation has escalated such that many raid level encounters may not be undertaken without disproportionally large numbers of clerics. No other class has been able to fill in if a cleric is absent, and healing is too important of a role to allow one class to dominate it so completely. After these changes are complete, clerics will still be the very best of healers but other priests class are able to substitute to some degree.

Clerics are going to receive additional changes so that they have some abilities that makes them more sought after for grouping. The final ability choices will be made after this first set of changes is evaluated and tested more extensively. It's very important that clerics have an ability that makes other players say "I really want to invite a cleric because they can do X, and that will be really helpful." This is vital to the health of the class. All priests should offer a similar level of value in solo, group, and raid situations, and they won't be considered balanced until this is true.

We understand that there's a lot of trepidation at major changes, and fears that your class will become less valuable in the game. When the changes are finished, I think most people will be pleased and will feel that their concerns have been listened to and addressed. The health of all classes in the game is as important to the dev team as it is to the many people who've spoken up passionately about their concerns here on this board.

Thanks for your patience,
____________________________
Rich Waters
Lead Designer, EverQuest
Sony Online Entertainment

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Cleric responses confirm the fact that whiners and grief players are on every single class board. Still, interesting to hear from Rich though. This guy is really doing a great job.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » August 23, 2002, 11:13 am

VI is worried about a cleric's soloing ability?

my how things change

Post by **Xouqoa** » August 23, 2002, 11:29 am

In addition to the added spells, we'll be trying out the Bash skill for Clerics, beginning at level 25.

Yesterday I saw a mage die to overaggro.
Today I see this.
The apololypse is upon us.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 23, 2002, 12:06 pm

Very interesting!

It would be nice if folks took up playing clerics for fun, rather than their absolute neccesity in the end game.

Clerics duoing at the CT entrance? Sheesh!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 23, 2002, 12:30 pm

"How did the cleric die?"

"Enrage damage"

"shit"

Aarinu · Post by **Aarinu** » August 23, 2002, 12:47 pm

Next thing ya know, clerics will be the MT!

Xaem · Post by **Xaem** » August 23, 2002, 1:04 pm

I always found the Cleric class the be pretty damn balanced.

Why not balance something a bit more worthwhile like Necromancers or something?

A 54 necro has more of a need for a group than a 54 cleric. 54 clerics get groups 10x easier.

Need to give necros the ability to port, cast mana-regen spells (not just mana pumping spells), give them disciplines, Flurry class AA, dual weild and an instant-feign death AA ability and they will be balanced almost.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 23, 2002, 1:15 pm

Clerics getting Bash and Monks still have no reliable (non-disc) way to stun mobs!

Ok I am SO FUCKING sick of Clerics bitching about their class!! and YES this does infringe on the tanks role in EQ. If this goes live I will fucking quit EQ!

Skunki · Post by **Skunki** » August 23, 2002, 1:22 pm

oh go fucking fd off a cliff somehwere

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 23, 2002, 1:27 pm

That statement looks familiar Aslanna

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 23, 2002, 1:58 pm

LOL Asslana! bitch

BTW not complaining here but WTF! It took forever to stop Clerics from Nuking and learn their role as a healer NOW you will have to teach them to STOP Tanking. Oh and if this goes Live I will never be the main healer in my group again. Nope I am giving that SHITTY job to a Druid ROFLMAO!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 23, 2002, 2:05 pm

the reason for this change is to give clerics a soloing alternative.

and hell xp grinding is so lame now, clerics dont need to sit and med, more melee is fine w/ me, means mobs die faster means we can turn over more mobs in one spawn cycle.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 23, 2002, 2:05 pm

Ahah! Now I remember. Hahahahahaha

I think clerics need to multitask more and having them in both the Tank and CH rotations will be a good start

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » August 23, 2002, 2:12 pm

what did they do to clerics to let them duo in cazic? 0.0

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 23, 2002, 2:14 pm

Well, they get to wear armor so they should be great tanks. Dwarf or Halfling clerics should be call turtles then.

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » August 23, 2002, 2:14 pm

Actaully, the best thing to come out of this so far, and we'll have to see if it goes live that way, is the new Yaulp. It started out not stacking with BAotR, which was pretty much stupid,. I figured it was inteded to stack with BAotR but not with KEI (since I thought it was obviously supposed to go with the Hammer for soloing and since the Cleric was soloing, he might not have KEI). Well, now they fixed that stacking, but it also stacks with KEI! If that goes live as is, our raid Clerics all just picked up an extra 7-9 Mana/tick that stacks with everything (depending on how efficently they can cast Y5 under the circumstances).

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » August 23, 2002, 2:17 pm

Bwahahaha
Ok so cleric finally gets a group with Asslana.

Casts all of his "ub3r" melee spells and "pet" spell, buffs group with aego
and starts whacking away on the mob, oh and bashes. Adding a tremendous amount to the total damage output.

Asslana dies, "Hey why didnt you heal me."
"Oh cause there is a druid in the group and I felt like tanking today,"
deep breath
"and cause I read what you think about Clerics on the vault. Need a res?"

Cheers

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 23, 2002, 2:21 pm

Sorry, this druid already has enough to keep himself busy in a group without the added burden of main healer

I'll duo with you and we'll see what a battle cleric and healing druid combo can do though! Think about it... I epic and add on DoD from bracers (no mana so far), you jump in and start proccing like a madman with my DS on you. Regens and such would keep us having to keep you healed to a minimum. I drop a nuke in here and there whenever I am at 80 mana. As the MoB turns to run, I'll ensnare. Good times, and definately an improvement on druid/cleric duos. Right now, we don't duo well at all unless we have a tank to share or a DC pet

Personally, I'm happy to see the new options for clerics.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » August 23, 2002, 2:24 pm

where can i go whine about enchanters so we can become over balanced? like clerics are gonan be

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » August 23, 2002, 2:33 pm

You know, this sounds like some of those VI employees with characters in raid guilds are getting tired of the raids being held up due to bored clerics not logging on.

agree?

Pubin · Post by **Pubin** » August 23, 2002, 3:03 pm

Cool changes.

I hope to see more high end cleirc sticking with their characters instead of making melee twinks which eventually become their main.

Shaion · Post by **Shaion** » August 23, 2002, 3:05 pm

The 2 box era might be over !

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » August 23, 2002, 3:35 pm

Wtf you talkin' about Hammer? Aint nobody ever stopped me from nuking!! Nyah!

Actually used my little hammer on THO a couple days ago too. With mr/dr and aegol (yes, I was that bored...

) it survived quite nicely too until enrage when it blew up as someone let the THO turn around for about 20 seconds. Sniffle. I was even bored enough to fire off another one after enrage too, just for fun.

No idea if either of them actually HIT anything of course, but they were out there trying!

You'll likely be seeing a lot more of Varia jr after the changes.

*Hugs*
Varia

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 23, 2002, 4:04 pm

All these changes are shit I told them to do back when I was playing my cleric before Kunark. Morons.

Clerics were always balanced. The problem with the class was that they weren't actually clerics. They were like clergy in platemail. Clerics are armed and armored warrior priests gearing up and kicking ass for their deity. Up until now you could play a cleric in a high level raid or in a group with your index finger while watching a dvd or reading a book. The only buttons you need to press is SIT and Complete Heal. The fact that they were so important and needed in every group and raid was small compensation for the fact that your class was one of the most dull things a person could do with their time.

These changes will probably rock the boat too much for the tards that have been playing a cleric for too long now and can't graps the concept of changing their one finger playstyle. With these changesI would actually play a cleric again, if I was still playing EQ. The only change I would make is instead of putting mana regen into Yaulp, just make it so they regen mana with auto-attack on as fast as they do while medding.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 23, 2002, 4:15 pm

They said on test that the cleric pet hammer is immune to riposte and spells now.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 23, 2002, 4:17 pm

Send in the hammers....full attack!

Drustwyn · Post by **Drustwyn** » August 23, 2002, 4:26 pm

Clerics = boring.

I hated leveling drustwyn the entire way up, only my guildies would urge me to level.

These changes still aren't enough to draw me back to that class.. I'm much happier being a beastie that is useless on raids (until those new spells).

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 23, 2002, 4:26 pm

We had a wizard use his sword pet thing against Nathyn recently and it did 7k damage. That isnt bad for 600 mana, or even better 250 mana once the cleric and wizard pets are changed.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 23, 2002, 5:22 pm

fuck monks they don't need stun!
they need to be nerfed into the ground, burned, and buried!
*hug aslanna*

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 23, 2002, 5:55 pm

LOL Varia! I toss out the Hammer of No Hope once in a while too and against something with more HP than a Seb Frog it is usually fun to turn on it's hits in another window and watch him MOW the UBER mob down roflmao.

In fact I get so attached to the little guy he usually lasts longer than the MT.

But what I love the best is when my pet hammer appears and his name is GONER! ROFLMAO

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » August 23, 2002, 11:46 pm

Cuz I had all your gear Drust!

Sassii · Post by **Sassii** » August 24, 2002, 3:02 am

~All I know is that chanters need some upgrades. We are a forgotten class and always have been. Sure we can clarity mez and speed but so what? Thats all we can do pretty much. Cant solo for shit, aye its possible but not worthwhile, DD is a joke... then you have so many ways for mana regen these days. Ench have never been a group to bitch OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS so therefore there hasnt been many changes for us through the years. Seems like everyone is stepping up while we are where we started from.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 24, 2002, 3:04 am

As we've seen already, Verant can't balance all the classes at the same time.

Sinzar · Post by **Sinzar** » August 24, 2002, 10:05 am

enchanters stacking on a raid is all i ask

i get better at dragging corpses each raid though!

Sassii · Post by **Sassii** » August 24, 2002, 11:38 am

~Aye I know they cant work on every class at the same time but I cant remember a time when they have ever worked on chanters. My point being that everyone needs to stop crying over their class cuz all you have to do is look at the startling changes made for ench (read- none) and the kickass upgrades (again- none) that weve had over time to understand that your class really doesnt have it so bad. Ench have always been a class to themselves and although there are many classes infringing on our talents now we tend to keep our mouths shut. Bottom line is this... if you love your class, which most ench do, then you just have fun and go with it. If you dont love your class, change. Its just a game guys.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » August 24, 2002, 2:18 pm

all enchanters need is ...a snare spell and to be able to out nuke clerics and their nukes to be partical resistable ...not this all or nothing shit and i would be happy ...and a pet new pet spell at lvl 60 ...and all these spells not drop off uber mobs ...let em drop of like juggs in seb or something

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 24, 2002, 3:51 pm

My question is, where is the bard balancing? I'm not going to go into a list of complaints because thats a tired argument like it is for all classes, but for real, most all classes have been balanced out by now I think, except bards, and with every single patch, they manage to somehow fuck us up more and then take several days to fix it.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » August 24, 2002, 7:19 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:My question is, where is the bard balancing?

Don't you know? Verant doesn't have the first fucking clue what bards do or even how their songs work.

*points to the effects of each and every patch*

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 26, 2002, 12:20 pm

Are there enough Bards on Veeshan that they can even be heard over the staccato bitching of the Druids??

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 26, 2002, 1:54 pm

/eye Hammer

Ya me class choices.

Seriously, unless you are raiding every day being a bard ain't bad.

Really.

Saerilyah · Post by **Saerilyah** » August 27, 2002, 10:38 pm

Haha don't you know they'll never fix us bards.
We're doomed to be broken forever.
Doomed I say !!