North Korea

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Winnow
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North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Placeholder. Should be interesting topic!

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Re: North Korea

Post by Funkmasterr »

I won't even get into how I feel about the situation.. However, sucks for my cousin.. His ship was already scheduled to go out to sea tomorrow, and now he'll be going straight there (along with every single other ship in the U.S. fleet), and he'll be out to sea a lot longer than planned.

It's only a matter of time before someone has to do something about those fucks..
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Re: North Korea

Post by Ashur »

Nutball
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

No time to comment in detail but if this ever goes to full scale war, there will be mass casualties (civilian and military) on both sides in just hours after it starts. 100 thousand dead is my estimate for first day.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

We should not be sending any of our troops there and should withdraw every US troop currently there out. Let the U.N. handle it or let them blow each other up.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Funkmasterr »

I couldn't disagree more, and so does the military, being as most of our fleet has spent most of their time off of Korea for years now. Korea isn't Iraq, this isn't a leader whose crazy behavior is only effecting his people, it isn't a case of weapons that may or may not exist..

It's a case of a government that has made it clear that they have nuclear and other weapons, and that they aren't afraid to use them. They are close to important places for the U.S. Military (namely Japan), and could do extensive damage to a lot of people in a very short period of time.

I don't know the best way to deal with the situation, and I'm not saying that right now we should necessarily get more involved than we already are.. However if it escalates to them launching any kind of attack against someone other than South Korea I don't see us as having a choice.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Boogahz »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:We should not be sending any of our troops there and should withdraw every US troop currently there out. Let the U.N. handle it or let them blow each other up.

Considering we are still at war with North Korea, it would be kind of strange to just leave. There was only a cease-fire in 1953, not an actual peace treaty.


The reason this started was that the North and South Korea couldn't agree on how things should be run when the US "created" them while managing things after Japan surrendered lands they had taken over. The North and South have both done their share of flexing towards each other, but there seems to be a bit more crazy in the water supply of North Korea.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Bubba Grizz »

My concern is where does China factor in on all of this? Do they agree that NK is fucking up or do they support their actions? You know we won't let them get nukes or at least nothing that can reach the mainland states. What about Russia for that matter. They are right next door as well.

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Re: North Korea

Post by masteen »

Time to dust off the nukes!
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Re: North Korea

Post by Boogahz »

I might be mixing up the reactions between China and Russia regarding this shelling "incident"...I believe that China was basically saying that everyone should take care to keep things from getting worse, while Russia was remaining quiet.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Aabidano »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:We should not be sending any of our troops there and should withdraw every US troop currently there out. Let the U.N. handle it or let them blow each other up.
Which sounds really good until you think about it a bit. What about the billions of US dollars that are tied up in S Korea in various ways? What happens in the region when he overruns SK?

Russia hasn't had much to do with NK in a long time, they've been China's puppy for the most part.

They're also lead by an absolute loony with nuclear weapons. He's been stomping his feet hoping for someone to rescue his failed state for a long time. This is terrorism on a huge scale.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

To see what North Korea is like, watch the first three parts of this series:

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide- ... rea-1-of-3

Wild stuff.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Bagar- »

Winnow, awhile back (at least a year ago) you posted a link to a website where a Russian guy had gotten some pretty candid pics from around North Korea while he was there. Do you still happen to have that link? Or even know what the fuck I'm talking about heh?
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Bagar- wrote:Winnow, awhile back (at least a year ago) you posted a link to a website where a Russian guy had gotten some pretty candid pics from around North Korea while he was there. Do you still happen to have that link? Or even know what the fuck I'm talking about heh?
I posted this awhile back:

http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk- ... ~mainframe

Not sure if that's what you were referring to though. It's about ten pages long with pictures from a visit to North Korea.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Bagar- »

That's not it, although I will check that out. It may have been someone else that posted it. This was a Russian guy (he had captions to each photo in Russian, and they were translated), and he managed to get away from his "guides" a few times and took some pretty candid photos of the shit that the DKRP wouldn't normally let people take pictures of; I seem to recall him getting into an actual village and taking some pics there. The website itself were just some forum where a guy had linked the photos and translated the captions.

Then again I could have just imagined all of this shit while on a crack bender.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Tuberok »

Having served many years in the Navy thanks to aROTC scholarship, I have to think that we must learn our lesson about fighting on an Asian landmass. We can no longer be the protector of the world so to speak. Yes we need to stand with South Korea but I think we need to do so by demanding that China step up to the bat and take a roll in world leadership. China controls N.Korea and without Chinese support N. Korea will have no military supply or food supply. Just my opinion and it is way out there and I am sure many will take issue with it, that is fine... My opinion is we should make a deal with China if they will not step up to the plate and control North Korea. We agree that we will withdraw our troops from S.Korea (only 28,000) what the hell can they do if 1 million N. Koreans cross the border anyway. We will also support but discontinue selling arms to Taiwan. In return China will control however they have to the North Korean regime. A pipe dream I know but a war in Korea would be so incredibly horrible as to even think of such an option. We also have zero troops even if we wanted to get involved. The situation is insane and a major part of the problem is China. China wants to emerge as a world power, time to step up and take that role.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Siji »

We can't even hold China accountable for the crappy poisoned goods they're selling us, what makes anyone think they're going to listen to us about doing anything about an entire country we don't like?

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Re: North Korea

Post by Hesten »

Nice to know that Palin back up her North Korea allies :). Still find her funnier than Michael Palin :)
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Re: North Korea

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Yeah, she really should've written that one down on her hand!

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Re: North Korea

Post by Leonaerd »

interesting perspective
It also said the United States should be blamed for "orchestrating" the whole sequence of events to justify sending an aircraft carrier to join the maritime maneuvers.
link (barely topical)

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Re: North Korea

Post by Funkmasterr »

Yeah.... The only problem with that, is most of our fleet has been spending most of their time near Korea for 5+ years now. I know a lot of people on various ships in the Navy right now (Kitty Hawk, George washington, Fitzgerald, McCain - and others) and every one of them has spent most or all of their deployed time near Korea. That being the case, pretty sure we weren't looking for an excuse to send one more carrier there..
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Re: North Korea

Post by Tyek »

Out of curiosity, where is Nick in this thread, or does he only go on threads directly involving the U.S. so he can tell us why we suck....again?
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Tyek wrote:Out of curiosity, where is Nick in this thread, or does he only go on threads directly involving the U.S. so he can tell us why we suck....again?

I was going to post about Ireland needing to beg the rest of Europe for money to bail out their economy but then saw a squirrel and got distracted.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Aabidano »

Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah...most of our fleet has been spending most of their time near Korea for 5+ years now.
It only makes the news at times like this but we've had a heavy Naval presence in that part of the world since the late 40s. The Brit, AU and NZ navies too for that matter, "peace" in S Asia hasn't been maintained because the parties are feeling peaceful.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Siji »

I'm curious what happens should NK's "beloved" leader decides to throw a big fuck you to the world before dies.. does the US immediately pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan? I mean, leaving partial troops there would be the same as a suicide mission. I don't think we've got the numbers to go to war with NK with everyone spread out everywhere else right now. Or do we?

At what point does a country that's losing a war press their button? I fear fighting North Korea, but I do suspect they wouldn't be the same enemy we fought in the Korean war (strength wise), so maybe we'd win this time.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Wulfran »

Siji wrote:I'm curious what happens should NK's "beloved" leader decides to throw a big fuck you to the world before dies.. does the US immediately pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan? I mean, leaving partial troops there would be the same as a suicide mission. I don't think we've got the numbers to go to war with NK with everyone spread out everywhere else right now. Or do we?

At what point does a country that's losing a war press their button? I fear fighting North Korea, but I do suspect they wouldn't be the same enemy we fought in the Korean war (strength wise), so maybe we'd win this time.
I imagine the US would have all of NATO behind them in this, as well as some members of the UN, just like last time. As some have stated, North Korea isn't Iraq with all its nebulous questions. There ARE nukes. There ARE threats. Now the Chinese say this is all posturing by the North to strengthen their negotiating position, but why is it always the US, South Korea and their allies that have to give all the concessions? This is a repeating pattern of rewarding bad behaviour ("if you don't this, we'll give you this") except now the ante is a lot higher...
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Re: North Korea

Post by Aabidano »

The stalemate last time was because we didn't want to go to war with China IIRC. Not sure that China would have their back this time. Of course he's absolutely nuts, I can quite easily see him nuking SK.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Tuberok »

And once again the reality check that even without the support of China, North Korea has a standing army of over one million troops. If they were to cross the boarder our 28000 troops stationed in the South along with the ROK forces would be overrun before we could even think about getting troops there. Let alone attempting to figure out what troops we would put there. It is a horrible situation and let us all hope that cool heads prevail and nothing more than posturing continues to occur between the two Koreas.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Siji »

Which of course serves as a nice distraction while Iran gets itself ready.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Nick »

Tyek wrote:Out of curiosity, where is Nick in this thread, or does he only go on threads directly involving the U.S. so he can tell us why we suck....again?
Winnow wrote:I was going to post about Ireland needing to beg the rest of Europe for money to bail out their economy but then saw a squirrel and got distracted.
Well, you do suck - but since I've only posted on the Wikileaks thread in CE recently, an issue that impacts on the entire world and not just one self obsessed nation, one wonders why you have to try and act the victim. Attention, perhaps?

Anyway, North Korean leaders are nuts and it's a horrible regime. Until China actively turn away from them, there's pretty much fuck all anyone's going to do about it. I feel bad for the people of North and South Korea, who are both, to differing extents, held hostage by one corrupt dictatorship in the North.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11871641 - If this kind of thing was made more public, progress might be made. (Chalk up reason #837 why the latest cable leaks were a good thing.)

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Re: North Korea

Post by Aabidano »

Tuberok wrote:...North Korea has a standing army of over one million troops. If they were to cross the boarder our 28000 troops stationed in the South along with the ROK forces would be overrun before we could even think about getting troops there.
Not really, it'd be like cavemen storming castle walls with stick and stones. It would be a bloodbath to be sure but a million ground troops with AKs aren't that scary, except for the huge mess they'll make as you blow them to teeny tiny bits. You don't have to worry about collateral damage after all. And their absolutely daffy leader will go nuclear right about the time he figures it out.

http://www.gizmag.com/korea-dodamm-supe ... ret/17198/
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Re: North Korea

Post by Gzette »

the fact of the matter is this conflict would go nuclear if the house of cards fell. where those nukes would land is another question entirely. As Madeleine Albright put it once, the reason we are so scared of NK is that we know they have nukes. If we knew Iraq had nukes, we would have never invaded.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Aabidano »

I think there's a question as to what he can hit with his nukes though. I think their ego is too big to sneak one anyplace and Japan is the only local target that isn't SK. He's made threatening gestures at them in the past.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Funkmasterr »

I don't think, if it really came down to it, we'd give them that chance. I'm pretty sure we'd carpet bomb any and everywhere him and his cronies could be, and send the troops in the clean up the garbage.

We won't let him fuck with Japan... Our entire fleet on that side of the world is based there.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Taking out the leader(s) in North Korea would work well. If it came down to nukes, hopefully our intel would be good enough to locate Kim Jong Il within the blast radius of a nuke strike. With their leaders out of the picture, I believe the North Koreans would be more open to negotiation. Dump lots of food on the population with propaganda right afterward.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Aabidano »

Winnow wrote:Dump lots of food on the population with propaganda right afterward.
That's one of the problems with bailing them out out their self generated mess, it would just make things worse as the food would be said to be coming from the great leader, who's largely responsible for the mess they're in.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Why start another thread? Those crazy North Koreans are at it again!

Il's chubby son Un is a just a tad more crazy than his dad.

Image

Those hats crack me up! If one of those guys were sitting in front of me in a stadium, I'd totally start playing their hat like a bongo drum.

Image

Kim Jong Un says, "sup?" They sure have a lot of metals on their uniforms.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/30/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1
North Korea warns that U.S. bomber and missile bases in Japan and Guam are under nuclear threat, as CNN's Matthew Chance reports.
Back in 1984, the U.S. prepared a campaign plan that would have made possible the destruction of the entire North Korean air force in 100 hours. Retired U.S. Air Force generals say the military could do it even faster today.
I don't think North Korea can really say much more than they already have after threatening to nuke the U.S., it's allies, etc. What else can they do? Put up or shut up. They've got one shot to do something and then the US/South Korea will do serious damage to all North Korean military and leadership. The U.S. has tactical nukes which can be relatively focused to cut down on fallout to neighboring countries...although would they even be able to tell with all the pollution China pumps out?

I don't see a peaceful outcome to the situation, whether it be this year, or in five years. The U.S. is prepared. It's highly doubtful any kind of land invasion would take place. I see billions and billions of US/South Korean reconstruction aid afterwards....unless they do manage to set off a nuke near a US base or territory in which case they might get less aid.
Last edited by Winnow on March 30, 2013, 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Spang »

North Korea will obliterate South Korea with this retro computer and Logitech mouse:

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Re: North Korea

Post by Spang »

Winnow wrote:They've got one shot to do something and then the US/South Korea will do serious damage to all North Korean military and leadership.
And civilians.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:They've got one shot to do something and then the US/South Korea will do serious damage to all North Korean military and leadership.
And civilians.
Dude, if the North Koreans do something stupid with a nuke, they'll be killing plenty of civilians (or even a conventional strike on Seoul)

Here's a good bang for your buck target: (would suck if you were in the middle of that and had to take a dump)

Image

Do you really think America (that includes Canadians) and Europe will stand for possible delays in the Samsung S4 being delivered? Apple's patent disputes with Samsung were just a coverup to move all of their required phone parts out of korea before the shit hits the fan.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Spang »

Winnow wrote:
Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:They've got one shot to do something and then the US/South Korea will do serious damage to all North Korean military and leadership.
And civilians.
Dude, if the North Koreans do something stupid with a nuke, they'll be killing plenty of civilians (or even a conventional strike on Seoul)
A U.S. retaliation, IF North Korea were to do something stupid (or is even capable), would result in substantially more innocent bloodshed and decades of deformed babies.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Ah, you're just trolling. Hi dumbass.

You're absolutely right! Letting North Korea kill tons of people without responding would kill less total people. Genius! Why didn't we think of this when Hitler was killing mass amounts of people? It would have saved millions of lives just letting him takeover the world. We're still stuck with these fucking Jews which are causing all sorts of problems in the Middle East. Hitler would have prevented that. Someone needs to put Spang in charge of the world.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Spang »

Winnow wrote:You're absolutely right!
I agree.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Funkmasterr »

Not quoting your entire comment from above cause I'm too lazy to reformat/cut out the pictures winnow - but: North Korea hardly even has one shot to do anything. The majority of our naval fleet has been sticking nearby Korea for years, and in the past 6 months or so most of the people I know in the Navy that are currently on sea duty have had very little time on land before they head back to Korea-watch. We don't even need tactical nukes. North Korea isn't a large place, they know every location where military/government personnel can and would be and they'd simply launch tomahawks and whatnot from the ships that are already within launching range. It would be over before it started.

Not saying this couldn't start a shit storm, but it's a lose lose situation really.
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Winnow
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Re: North Korea

Post by Winnow »

Funkmasterr wrote:Not quoting your entire comment from above cause I'm too lazy to reformat/cut out the pictures winnow - but: North Korea hardly even has one shot to do anything. The majority of our naval fleet has been sticking nearby Korea for years, and in the past 6 months or so most of the people I know in the Navy that are currently on sea duty have had very little time on land before they head back to Korea-watch. We don't even need tactical nukes. North Korea isn't a large place, they know every location where military/government personnel can and would be and they'd simply launch tomahawks and whatnot from the ships that are already within launching range. It would be over before it started.

Not saying this couldn't start a shit storm, but it's a lose lose situation really.

That's why they have one shot. They can do damage because unless the US/South Korea launch a preemptive strike, they can do whatever they choose, be it an attempt at launching a missile, detonating a nuke in some other fashion, or conventional strike against South Korea. Whatever it happens to be, they can do significant damage before being eradicated. It's suicide, but they can still do it.

The question is what will the response be if the North decides to sink a South Korean boat again or snipe a soldier along the border. Last time the U.S. did nothing. Kim Jong Un (not as cool as Kim Dotcom) is trying to figure out how much he can get away with. Testing limits. It all depends on what intelligence he's being fed by those guys with funny looking hats.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Aslanna »

The problem with that is that China is an ally of North Korea so yeah... There's that to deal with.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Spang »

As long as the United States has Wal-Mart, China won't do shit.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Aslanna »

If you think that's how it would go down you're a crazy person.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Spang »

Aslanna wrote:If you think that's how it would go down you're a crazy person.
I don't think anything will go down, quite frankly.

These photos and whatnot, it's just propaganda.
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