Supreme Court rules Chicago Handgun Ban unconstitutional

[Ashur]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/28/us. ... tml?hpt=T1

I'm actually disappointed with this ruling, but understand it. I think States/Municipalities should have the right to restrict such things, but I suppose this will be in line with a future ruling on ANOTHER local/state law vs constitutional amendment (See Arizona thread)

[Gzette]

Yeah right ...

The Supreme Court is just as political as any other branch of the government right now. The majority of 5-4 rulings revolve around politically contentious issues. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ariz law was upheld, likely by a 5-4 decision.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/28/us. ... tml?hpt=T1

I'm actually disappointed with this ruling, but understand it. I think States/Municipalities should have the right to restrict such things, but I suppose this will be in line with a future ruling on ANOTHER local/state law vs constitutional amendment (See Arizona thread)

Why would you be disappointed that they uphold the 2nd Amendment? If Chicago decided to ban all internet related postings unless by a news source, would you be all for them enforcing that law? What is disappointing is that there are actually 4 justices on that court who are refusing to adhere to enforcing the Constitution and are using their personal feelings on a subject to vote.

[Kluden]

Oh noes, obama's home state! There is going to be massive amounts of gun purchases and the subsequent murders that gun purchases lead to! Glad I don't live there.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Yeah right ...

The Supreme Court is just as political as any other branch of the government right now. The majority of 5-4 rulings revolve around politically contentious issues. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ariz law was upheld, likely by a 5-4 decision.

I could see the law they just sent up getting upheld in a 5-4. Forcing businesses to make sure it is legal for their applicants to work does not seem like a bad thing to do does it? Would this not be one of the things everyone is calling for on immigration reform?

You can guarantee 100% that the 4 liberals will vote against it......I could possibly see one of the conservative voting the other way though.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Oh noes, obama's home state! There is going to be massive amounts of gun purchases and the subsequent murders that gun purchases lead to! Glad I don't live there.

yea.....ummmm probably not.

After DC's unconstitutional law was struck down, the murder rate has dropped 25% and crime rates through this year have fallen 34%....or in easier terms they have fallen back to the pre-ban rates. The rest of the country on average had fallen steadily over the past decade as more guns hit the hands of the friendlies.

[Funkmasterr]

Kilmoll, I know you've probably got precious little free time between work, CoD, and preparing for CoD irl.. So because I'm a nice guy, I can compile a template post with your thoughts on gun control and just repeatedly post them on every topic about it if you want. Could get some solid work in on the bomb shelter with all the time you'd save.

[miir]

After DC's unconstitutional law was struck down, the murder rate has dropped 25% and crime rates through this year have fallen 34%

Homicide and violent crime rates in DC have been trending downward since 2002, mirroring the nationwide statistics.
There is no real correlation between it and the lifting of the handgun ban... despite what your NRA propaganda says.

According to the FBI, there was infact a small increase (+2.3%) in violent crime in 2008 in DC.

[Fairweather Pure]

Kilmoll, I know you've probably got precious little free time between work, CoD, and preparing for CoD irl.. So because I'm a nice guy, I can compile a template post with your thoughts on gun control and just repeatedly post them on every topic about it if you want. Could get some solid work in on the bomb shelter with all the time you'd save.

[Canelek]

Not surprised at this ruling. Chicago had some of the most restrictive gun regulations in the nation.

Constitutionally, I see it as a win. Time will tell if the far right or far left are correct as far as crime-committed-with-handguns theories.

[Kluden]

Nothing will change...just like nothing changed after the DC ruling. Crime will go on. Legal owners and purchasers of guns will legally own and purchase their guns. Criminals will continue to get guns illegally. I'm not sure why this is rocket science with politicians and everyone who doesn't know much about guns.

I was being sarcastic in my above post. Chicago's murder rates/violent crimes committed using hand guns will "stay stable" with no dramatic change. that way, both sides can bullet point it as a victory for their side later on somehow...its boring.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I could not read your sarcasm....my apologies. I also agree with what you just said in your last post...except that I do expect that you will see murders and other violent crime to trend down as it has in just about every area that has had some type of pro-gun law put in effect. Whetehr that is solely due to some of the criminals being more worried about getting shot or some other influence is an argument that I don't think could ever truly be proven one way or the other.

As for Miir....the facts are that after the ban was lifted, murders did not go up....they went down significantly over the previous year and they are down again. The 2 years prior to the ban being lifted, crime and murders were trending upwards. To say that more legally owned firearms being added would increase crime has been proven across the entire nation to be innacurate and even the Brady campaign has admitted as much.

[Canelek]

Hmmmm Brady Act. Now there's a fine example of knee-jerk politics!

[Gzette]

I should clarify that I agree with the ruling. Whether for or against guns, you can't have a city make laws that go directly against the constitution. I'm just frustrated with the obviously partisan nature of the court. It should have been a unanimous 9-0 decision in my book, and I'm pretty liberal.

[vn_Tanc]

How come you can all have the "right to bear arms" but ignore the rest of the clause about "as part of an organised militia"?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

2: In the eighteenth century the term "regulated" meant subject to rules and regulations, the same as the modern meaning, and that it did not mean trained.

Regulations in place.....check

the right of the People

And you notice here that this part specifically says the people and not the military or anyone else. In colonial times (that time we kicked your ass back across the Atlantic) every male was a part of the defense of the country. Today, we have a military to take care of a bulk of that, but we also have millions of people that are gun owners that also provide a large deterrent on invading the US.

[Kluden]

Yes, don't take me wrong, Kilmoll, I'm an NRA member and gun owner. I just hate the political landscape of everything involved with legally owning a gun. FBI statistics are what show the truth, and then both sides take just the parts that support their argument, and present that argument like rabid dogs. Its annoying as all hell...either violent crime is trending down or not.

Anyways, the real reason I responded this morning was to post this story for why I own in the DC area :
woops, robbery may be harmful Hope that guy had his piece legally (edited), but beyond that part of the story, that's exactly why I'm armed...especially after my motorcycle was stolen.

[Funkmasterr]

Yeah I pretty much agree with kluden, but rehashing the same 4 discussions out over, and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over is really fucking old. Hence my complete lack of serious response to any of this shit.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I do love a story with a happy ending. Two years ago that homeowner would be dead instead of the piece of shit that was breaking in. Home invasions are the one crime that is trending upwards right now. We are seeing an increase here in areas that have not traditionally been problem areas.

[Aslanna]

Hmmmm Brady Act. Now there's a fine example of knee-jerk politics!

Patriot Act is another! It seems all things with 'Act' in them these days are bad.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I would agree with that....and lets not forget the Affordable Health Care Act

[valryte]

I thought Kilmoll said after Obama got elected they'd take our guns away?

[Spang]

I thought Kilmoll said after Obama got elected they'd take our guns away?

Any minute now.

[miir]

I thought Kilmoll said after Obama got elected they'd take our guns away?

Any minute now.

He just regurgitates the shock-and-awe propaganda that the NRA feed him and that he hears on Fox news.

[Kluden]

You know, its funny you mention that. Obama one upped himself on that one! As a gun owner, who shoots rather frequently (at illegal immigrants of course), it has been terribly hard to find the ammo to do said shooting for the last year or so.

I saw a funny cartoon that showed Obama sitting in the oval office, on the phone saying something like, "those fools were so concerned for the actual guns, they didn't realize that ammo is easier to buy out for "military use", leaving citizens with expensive paperweights." I chuckled.

[Gzette]

I guess the 2nd amendment makes no mention of ammo. well played Obama, well played

[masteen]

Funny, I haven't had any trouble finding ammo for my .40. Y'all got .45s or .223s? I know of a shitload of rednecks who are stockpiling piles of ammo in those calibers.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

.223 and 9mm has been easy to find for me. The .45 supply is still fairly scarce, although I reload that so has not been an issue. If you actually need .223 I would suggest Aimsurplus.com.....they almost always have it in stock at very good prices.

[Kluden]

.45 is impossible to find here, i reload so its not a big deal. 9mm and 40 are easier to find, at ok pricing. .45, if you do find ball ammo, is 25+ a box. ridiculous.

There was about 6 months here where it was hard to find 22lr, if you can believe that! but .223 is everywhere here, just expensive. I imagine it all depends on what part of the country you live in, really.

I have been shooting an old winchester 92 lately, lever action is awesome fun. 30-30 is easy to find, and relatively OK priced. Thinking of picking up a subcompact 9 this coming gun show, since the ammo is easier to find than others, and only $10 a box...and its always fun to utilize the gun show since it angers so many assholes out there.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I am telling ya....if you have buddies that need .223 aimsurplus is the place. They almost always have the russian stuff cheap and they end up with Lake City all the time at the best prices you will find it anywhere.

[Jice Virago]

Kilmoll, I know you've probably got precious little free time between work, CoD, and preparing for CoD irl.. So because I'm a nice guy, I can compile a template post with your thoughts on gun control and just repeatedly post them on every topic about it if you want. Could get some solid work in on the bomb shelter with all the time you'd save.

This quote is so good I feel like I should add it to my signature.

On topic, I have said this before and I will say it again: The argument that the 2nd amendment exists to enable citizens to resist the government is just plain outdated. There is no way that an armed insurrection (especially of redneck fucktards) would last longer than a couple days against our modern military. This is purely red meat to whip a bunch of stupid (and often) racist fucks into a frenzy every election cycle.

I am torn, because I am very much in favor of people having proper access (and training) with firearms. Wisconsin is a good example of a state where people have guns and generally know how to use them responsibly. Texas is the opposite. On the other hand, the dipshits who are into this whole 2nd amendment thing are the biggest part of the problem making gun control a needed evil. To quote Bill Maher, you don't need 5 assault rifles, no matter how small your penis is.

[Bubba Grizz]

I read a paraphrasing of this quote last night and thought of you Kilmoll. Don't know if this will help you your hinder you.

"The supposed quietude of a good mans allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside...Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them..." (Thomas Paine, I Writings of Thomas Paine at 56 [1894])

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

On topic, I have said this before and I will say it again: The argument that the 2nd amendment exists to enable citizens to resist the government is just plain outdated. There is no way that an armed insurrection (especially of redneck fucktards) would last longer than a couple days against our modern military. This is purely red meat to whip a bunch of stupid (and often) racist fucks into a frenzy every election cycle.

You mean like the militants in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or like the Russians against Afghanistan? Or the French and U.S. against the Vietnamese? In a traditional battlefield like WW2, no a civilian militia would not stand a chance against the artillery and air support. Todays warfare is guerilla based tactics and harrassment. The framers of our Constitution put these fundamental rights in writing. Just because untrained nitwits like you are not in favor of it does not mean that every person you equate to being a redneck is incapable. I would heartily agree that there are some incompetent redneck buffoons out there that would fit your description, but there are literally millions of citizens in this country that DO have some training and aptitude that would defy that. How many ex-military people do you think are in this country that own "assault rifles"? Did they lose every shred of training they went through simply because they are not active now?

For the record, I own exactly one evil black assault rifle. Do I need or want 5? Nah...maybe one more someday as a backup in case the one I own has issues that cannot be easily repaired. Hell, a large chunk of the civilian population actually trains with their firearm more than your average police officer. For some uninformed retard to spout off about training just shows the ignorance of the average anti-gunner.

[Zaelath]

On topic, I have said this before and I will say it again: The argument that the 2nd amendment exists to enable citizens to resist the government is just plain outdated. There is no way that an armed insurrection (especially of redneck fucktards) would last longer than a couple days against our modern military. This is purely red meat to whip a bunch of stupid (and often) racist fucks into a frenzy every election cycle.

You mean like the militants in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Wait, do you think they can wrest power from you?

If the success marker for a militia is to be irritating but ultimately ineffective, then you could get by with a board with a nail in it.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

They could not gain power over us from there because they do not have the means to arrive here in a large enough force.

What Jice has said is that the "untrained militias" here would have no chance if there was some type of revolution against a tyrannical government here.....and he is flat wrong. Our military has 1.5 active members and another 1.5 reserve members. Now just assuming (and I am using Obama here meerly because he is in power now and not that I necessarily think this is going to come to pass) that Obama did something that was far reachign enough to cause an actual revolt here, a significant percentage of that same military would actually oppose him. Why? Because in their oath they take to be sworn into duty they pledge to uphold the Constitution of this country and NOT the President of this country. I would say conservatively that you would see 25-30% of our military members refuse to take part in actions against their citizens. Add those numbers to the millions of people that have served and are now civilians...and even more millions of armed citizens and tell me that there would not be any chance.

Let me state again that I am NOT advocating a revolution. It would be the most horrendous and bloody thing that this country has ever seen and I pray we never have to deal with something like that in our lifetime.

[Zaelath]

So what you're saying is that if the military is against the government then you don't need a militia to overthrow them, and if the military is with the government a militia can't overthrow them.

Do you see any redundancy there?

[Jice Virago]

Which is exactly why the skinheads, jesus freaks, and militia nuts have been making massive efforts to embed people with their ideology into the military. This was among the topics discussed when the FBI and Homeland Security warned congress about right wing psycho groups earlier this year.

Push comes to shove, though, and the fat bloated american people have to go up against the US military, it will be over faster than the Rodney King riots, because we lack the motivation of the Afghans. We are spoiled and used to having our basic needs met, unlike these middle eastern people who have endured years of getting shit on. Two days of having to slog it out without hot pockets and beer, while getting systematically force fed their ass by modern laser guided ordinance, is about all it will take to make these dipshits fall in line. You can't even get these Afghan guys to turn in their buddies after putting trodes on their nuts, but these militia rednecks can't turn states evidence fast enough once the heat has been applied to them. In short, our lazy sedintary asses lack the strong motivation and dedication that comes from years of being oppressed by an invading force, as opposed to starting shit with the legitimate national government.

[masteen]

Sure a lot of the city slugs would fold like a Wal-Mart tent in a stiff breeze, but there are some hard motherfuckers out there in the more rural areas.

[Aslanna]

Sure a lot of the city slugs would fold like a Wal-Mart tent in a stiff breeze, but there are some hard motherfuckers out there in the more rural areas.

Nothing a well (or even vaguely close) placed bunker buster wouldn't take care of.

[masteen]

That assumes they're dumb enough to congregate in groups large enough to bomb, and doesn't factor in the public backlash bombing the shit out of US soil would generate.

[Aslanna]

"They shot first". Worked in Waco!

[Winnow]

I read a few survivalist books in the 80's after reading Lucifer's Hammer. It was interesting reading up on survivalism (that a word?) in theory but but in practice, there's no way 99% of our nation could weather any significant catastrophy as we'll soon see in about 1.5 years. Keep in mind, the U.S. would still fare better than the other panzy countries out there!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

That assumes they're dumb enough to congregate in groups large enough to bomb, and doesn't factor in the public backlash bombing the shit out of US soil would generate.

You HAVE to be wrong if you are agreeing with me in any sense of the word. If those bombs are that smart, then why are we still in Iraq and Afghanistan even though Obama said we would already be out?

I guess I should not be really surprised that someone who only leaves their computer chair to get another bag of Doritos and a Code Red thinks that every other citizen here is just as fat, lazy, and complacent as they are. It shouldn't amaze me that the same type of person would think that no one actually trains as a "just in case we need it" and if they do they must be a redneck militant intent on being a subversive.

In 1960, Robert Menard was a commander aboard the USS Constellation when he was part of a meeting between United States Navy personnel and their counterparts in the Japanese Defense Forces.
Fifteen years had passed since VJ Day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in each other.
Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland U.S. forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander's face as he frankly answered the question.
'You are right,' he told the Americans. 'We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand.'

[Winnow]

In 1960, Robert Menard was a commander aboard the USS Constellation when he was part of a meeting between United States Navy personnel and their counterparts in the Japanese Defense Forces.
Fifteen years had passed since VJ Day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in each other.
Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland U.S. forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander's face as he frankly answered the question.
'You are right,' he told the Americans. 'We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand.'

Internal strife != an outside threat. If, somehow, the U.S was invaded, the American people would then come together and kick the crap out of whichever foolish country set foot on our soil. The average American could life through an entire winter off of their body fat alone while the skinny invading army died off.

[Zaelath]

Not to mention that generation would beat the piss out of this generation.

[Noysyrump]

Not to mention that generation would beat the piss out of this generation.

Not true, if we could somehow arm this generation with remotly piloted killing machines controled with an x-box gamepad....

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I thought Kilmoll said after Obama got elected they'd take our guns away?

They are working on this with the old end around. Just really depends on whether or not the Senate wants to ratify whatever treaty they get in place. I do not think the Senate is this stupid, but one never knows what Obama will promise them to vote his way.

http://www.norway-un.org/Statements/Oth ... de-Treaty/

The scope of application of such a treaty should be wide. The treaty should cover all aspects of international transfers, including export, import, transhipment, brokering, technologies, and related services. In our view, the treaty should apply to all conventional arms, ammunition, arms technology and related services. Our preference would be to adopt a very wide approach, covering all conventional and small arms and light weapons—as well as ammunition—unless they are explicitly exempted. We look forward to participating in a more detailed discussion on this issue.

The treaty should contain an obligation to establish a national licensing framework, to ensure that all international transfers of arms, etc. are approved by a governmental authority. International arms transfers without such a license should be illegal under national legislation.

This link is a copy of the position papers that the committee for this treaty wrote last year.

http://issuu.com/controlarms/docs/scope ... ns.english

[Xatrei]

The level of your gullibility, paranoia and stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

yes...because the documents in writing were made by the NRA

[Aabidano]

a national licensing framework, to ensure that all international transfers of arms, etc. are approved by a governmental authority. International arms transfers without such a license should be illegal under national legislation.

Hasn't that been in place since the end of WWII at the very least?