Pac 16

[Winnow]

The ACC might not be the only big-name conference adding schools in the near future.

Pac-12 officials are engaged in "active discussions" with Texas and Oklahoma about how to make the Big 12 schools' addition to the conference work, a source within the Big 12 confirmed to ESPN.com's Joe Schad.

Another source confirmed to Schad on Sunday night that Texas president Bill Powers met with Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott in Los Angeles this weekend.

Texas officials traveled to California to watch the Longhorns game against UCLA.

Earlier, The Austin American-Statesman reported the Pac-12 was working out final details to add Texas and Oklahoma to the conference, along with fellow Big 12 schools Oklahoma State and Texas Tech. The Statesman cited a source close to the situation that stressed the deal is not yet complete, but that talks were "heating up."

[Boogahz]

tons of rumors going around regarding what happens with the Big 12, and moves from the Big East to the ACC seem to have added more fuel to the Pac-12 moves.

I think the most plausible scenario has the 4 team pods within a Pac16. This would keep the amount of travel down within the pods, but it would also have competitions spread out within the conference. There were reports that a conference playoff would be strictly based on records, rather than how Big 12 North and South champions were chosen.

I still dislike the Pac12, but if it takes all of these changes (and more) to have Texas and Oklahoma in a competitive conference for multiple sports, so be it.

[Boogahz]

Here's a better description of the "pod" system:

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1266871

The Pac-16 would most likely be divided into four-team pods with Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech in one pod; Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah in another pod; Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State in another pod; and USC, UCLA, Cal and Stanford in the other pod, the sources said.

The sources said the schools would play every other school in their pod and then face two other schools from the other pods (with those two teams from the other pod rotating every two years, so there would be home and away games) to form a 9-game conference schedule.

The conference would try to limit long road trips as much as possible, the sources said.

The means of selecting the two teams for the Pac-16 Championship Game are being discussed. Included in those discussions have been simply taking the two teams with the best regular-season records, even if they are from the same pod, the sources said.

[Canelek]

Since I live in the state, I follow the Ducks although it is certainly more casual than how I follow Arkeeensauce. Wooooo piiiiigggg sooooieeee, etc.

Beavers and Ducks draw passionate fans--just the the Ducks more consistently deliver a more watchable product. It would be weird have 4 more teams--especially from TX and OK. Either way, it would be interesting to see.

They do need to keep those natural rivals together though!

[Winnow]

ASU
UofA
USC
UCLA
^
|
|

Great Pod!

Stanford
UTAH
Colorado
CAL

Oregon
Oregon ST
Washington
Washington St

Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St

Some rumors that Texas would be able to keep their Network but with some compensations to the Pac 16. Not sure what that all means but I'd be good with those 16 teams and pods.

[Boogahz]

Yeah, they would have to make some changes to the Longhorn Network in order to include some other Pac16 content. Considering that they tried to do that when it was first being talked about with the Big12, and nobody wanted to be included, I don't see this being a problem. How that works with the $300m 20 year deal might be a bit tricky.

[Boogahz]

and now the PAC16 is canned...again. If nothing else, at least I know the Bundesliga will be a solid league next year!

[Winnow]

and now the PAC16 is canned...again. If nothing else, at least I know the Bundesliga will be a solid league next year!

yeah, so much for that! I think they should have just approved it and went with the Pac 16 and be done with it. I'm curious if there were some conditions placed on the move that caused the Pac 12 presidents to vote it down.

[Boogahz]

Local rumors are that there wasa not going to be enough revenue sharing from Texas and the Longhorn Network.

[Winnow]

Local rumors are that there wasa not going to be enough revenue sharing from Texas and the Longhorn Network.

Greedy bastards! At least it's the Texas fault again. I'm wondering f they're not seeing the "bigger picture" here and eventually their payday is going to drop if their conference falls apart. Pac Conference would have been a solid option.

[Xatrei]

Larry Scott's comments in this interview are interesting.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7001284

[Gzette]

UT will end the superconference discussion, not start it. That's advantageous for my school keeping the Longhorn Network (which I've heard so much about and never seen ... and I live in Austin). This whole debacle is disgusting IMO. The Big 12 (-2-1) lives!!!

PAC won't take OU without UT. That's the long short of it. UT won't negotiate its network. BYU will be in the Little 12. Notre Dame is a longterm goal. If the conference can land bolth of them, then the superconference ear will be staved off for quite awhile. I think UT wants B1G if the shit goes down.

I'm a UT alum. I love the university more than my dog and cat. But to me this shit is shameful. I don't think UT started it, but I'm sad to see 100-year rivalries destroyed over $$$$$. The acrimony is so great towards UT, I don't think the conference will last more than 2 years. Best ender for UT is a super coo-coo crazy conference involving the most lucrative football programs each with their own 9-figure contract for a network. Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Florida, Florida St, Miami, TAMU, USC, Bama, Penn St, OU, Georgia and fuck it Baylor, they'll sue the fuck out of us otherwise. Shameful. Still...love them horns. HOOK EM

[Boogahz]

Switch to Grande! I think they're still the people we can get LHN from in the Austin area. Now that Beebe is out, Oklahoma sounds more willing to play nice in the discussions to keep the Big12 together and bring in more schools. We'll see how long that lasts though...

[masteen]

I'm going to laugh if this blows up in Tejas' face as OK and possibly Okie State bail for the SEC. At which time, you bet your ass Tech will take whatever shitty deal the PAC gives em.

I am so looking forward to West Fuckin' Vergina joining the SEC. So we can beat their ass annually.

[Gzette]

OU won't ever join the SEC. The football is too tough. They like the idea of playing 2-3 meaningful games a year ... getting through those and having a clear path the MNC. Same goes for UT. Okie lite will do whatever OU says.

UT won't join SEC because of academics.

[Sueven]

All the changes make me sad. I liked the conferences back before Miami and VTech and BC decamped for the ACC; I wish we could stay like that. Too late, though. My next wish would be for everybody to figure it out now and be done with it, so we could have solid conference affiliations going forward, but doesn't look like that's gonna happen either. We'll just have to see how it shakes out.

I'm kind of glad the Pac 16 didn't work out. The nonsensical geography is one problem, and the lack of any cultural cohesion between the old and new schools turns me off to the idea. Texas Tech and Oregon should never be in the same conference. And the pod system is silly. I'd rather have a 16 team superconference play as two distinct 8-team divisions, with only two crossover games per team per year, then run a pod system. The Inland / West Coast thing floated early-- the old Big 12 schools plus the Arizonas in the East-- makes sense to me.

I'll be pleased if the Big 12 survives with a new agreement that satisfies both Texas and everybody else. Then they'll add BYU. Do they want to go to 12, stage a championship game, and stamp themselves as a power conference to be reckoned with? There are reasonable options-- West Virginia and Louisville would both jump at the chance, and aren't terrible fits culturally or geographically. West Virginia is the strongest athletic program without a solid situation, and Louisville brings tolerable football, good basketball, and a solid fan base. TCU would jump at the chance to get out of the disastrous Big East situation, and they fit in geographically even if they don't bring anything other than a good football team. Boise State is out there too. SMU and Houston remain on the shelf as well. The Big 12 has no shot at Notre Dame-- the schools fall short on the academic/cultural factors that Notre Dame will care about should they decide to go somewhere.

The SEC doesn't seem to have any great options for team #14. WVU is available to them as well, but the SEC doesn't appear enthused. Missouri isn't totally off the table, but I'm not sure why the SEC would be enthused by them, either. Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and Maryland all could potentially be talked out of the ACC, but that seems unlikely and hard to justify from an SEC perspective. Really, the SEC is so strong that it's hard to see how adding any team outside of Texas would actually add value to the conference, and that won't happen for a variety of reasons. Staying at 13 is cumbersome, but who cares? The Big Ten played at 11 for nearly twenty years and did fine. Or maybe they'll just kick out Vanderbilt.

The Big Ten is probably happy at 12. Similar to the SEC, I just don't see how any potential Big Ten targets add value. Notre Dame would obviously be in if they want in, and that might lead to a 14th team as well. But beyond that? The Big Ten didn't want Missouri last year. The schools that have been bandied about as targets to increase the Eastern footprint-- Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Maryland-- don't seem to add anything significant. The Big Ten has a huge concentration of the biggest and most popular programs in the nation. What's the compelling reason to dilute that?

Same for the ACC and 14. Adding Pitt and Syracuse might not have done much for the ACC's football strength, but it benefits the conference in many other ways. It establishes the ACC up the eastern seaboard and solidly into Acela territory. It makes the ACC the premier conference for the entire east coast. It brands the ACC as the Ivy League for large national universities-- good academic schools, classic east coast snobbiness, well-rounded athletic programs with excellent mens and women's programs, plus Florida State and NC State. It's actually pretty similar to the Pac 12, except the east coast has a higher concentration of such universities, which means that the Pac 12 has more chaff (sorry Washington State, Oregon State, Oregon, Arizona State, Arizona, and Utah).

So the ACC has solidified its position, and doesn't have any imperative to grow further. Rutgers is available, and UConn is very available, but neither school adds much, although UConn is a decent cultural fit. West Virginia is available and would upgrade the ACC's football cred, but doesn't fit in whatsoever with the ACC's east coast snob brand. Like the Big Ten, the most desirable add for the ACC is Notre Dame. And it's not out of the question-- if Notre Dame chose a conference, they might very well choose the ACC over the Big Ten. Notre Dame is located in the midwest, but its alumni are not-- they're in east coast cities. The east coast is more populous and contains a lot more money. The ACC offers easier competition. It also offers less money, but that probably won't be a huge concern to a rich-ass school like ND. It's enough to make it worth the ACC's while to hold out and see if they can attract Notre Dame instead of blowing their wad on useless Rutgers and UConn additions. The ACC's other big target is Penn State. PSU would instantly upgrade football cred and fit in perfectly with the branding, and the ACC is a much more sensible cultural fit for Penn State than the Big Ten is. It's extremely unlikely to happen, but if Notre Dame were to pick the ACC... who knows. If those dominoes don't fall, maybe the ACC stays at 14 or maybe it raids the Big East again. Doesn't really matter either way.

If the ACC goes to 16, a North/South split makes sense. The South would have Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC, NC State, and Wake. The North would have Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, and UConn/Rutgers/Notre Dame/Penn State/West Virginia (not really). The four southernmost teams could fight it out for southern football dominance, while the North would have Virginia Tech and maybe West Virginia/Penn State/Notre Dame. The south would have the Duke/UNC duo to carry basketball, while the North would feature Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse, and maybe UConn/West Virginia/Notre Dame.

And finally, the Big East. They're totally fucked. They can't stay at 7, but there's not really anybody of value available. They can add Navy and Air Force as football only members (apparently they're not interested in Army?) and that helps, some, because those schools have fans and are as good as anybody available. Still not going to do much to make the Big East a credible football conference. They could add Villanova, once it finishes upgrading football to FBS status, but it'll take awhile for Villanova to become a quality program, if it ever does. They could add Temple, who they just kicked out like five years ago but now appears to be the best option out there. They could add East Carolina or UCF and embarrass themselves by settling for the fifth-best programs in North Carolina and Florida and demonstrate once again that the ACC is the top dog on the coast. Any conceivable addition would water down an already damaged basketball side. It's hard to see how the Big East survives as a football conference. The only thing holding the conference together is that nobody has extended an offer to West Virginia, Louisville, UConn, or Rutgers. Eventually somebody will, and there's no path for the Big East to strengthen itself enough to resist further raids. Best case scenario is that the other conferences decide that they're happy as-is, the Big East adds a few mediocre schools and manages to hang on as the clear #6 conference in the country, at risk of losing its BCS bid. So basically just an even crappier version of the status quo. Last time around the Big East maintained cred via West Virginia and Louisville putting together some great teams. It seems unlikely that history will repeat itself, unless Dana Holgorsen really shows us something.

[masteen]

The only school other than Wf'nVU (for a northern market push) that I've heard seriously mentioned is Miami, which would give even better access to the fertile S.FL recruiting grounds.

FSU would add nothing to the SEC except that the UF game would count as conference play. They're not good enough to compete for the SEC title, but also not desperate enough to join despite that. Miami, OTOH, just might.

While I'd personally love to see Clempsun in a real conference, that won't happen until the push for 16.

[Sueven]

Retrospect:

The SEC added Texas A&M (OK) and Missouri (huh?)
The Big 12 replaced them with TCU and West Virginia
The ACC added Syracuse and Pittsburgh
The Big East clusterfucked around.

The Big 12 actually made out pretty well, if TCU can keep up its performance. Tough thing to do as a small school, but it wouldn't be the first to pull it off. The SEC proved itself to be an inferior conference on a grand scale (while certainly superior in football) by snapping up schools that didn't interest better conferences.

Also, I think West Virginia deserves a bit more respect than they've gotten, both here and elsewhere, and particularly after yesterday. Since 2006, West Virginia has won three BCS bowls, beating SEC champion Georgia, Big 12 champion Oklahoma, and ACC champion Clemson. Incidentally, nobody has beaten an SEC champion in a bowl game since WVU did it.

How many other schools have won 3 BCS games since 2006? 3. USC, Florida, and Ohio State (although one of those is vacated). LSU has a chance to match next week.

I know that you've got a better chance at winning BCS bowls when you have a clearer shot to a BCS bowl, and it's a lot easier to get the slot out of the Big East than it is in the SEC. But let's not act like West Virginia can't compete. They won't be the best team in the Big 12, but they'll be a threat.

[Boogahz]

I've been a fan of West-by-God-Virginia since the mid-80's when I started to really get exposed to College football. The meetings between WVU and Penn State meant that nobody left the house until it was over. Major Harris stepped in and started carrying the ball around like a cheap loaf of bread, and ran the wrong play faking out both teams for a touchdown. I'm really looking forward to their addition to the Big 12. TCU was another school that we watched growing up in a SWC city. I saw them play at Texas Tech a couple times, which was fun since I used to catch horned toads all the time! Mizzou's departure...good riddance. At least A&M "fits" when it comes to the SEC. The lack of a regular match-up with Texas is going to suck, but who knows what future schedules will bring. I think that the current news has TCU replacing A&M for Texas' Thanksgiving games. Now the fun will be waiting to see when teams are "allowed" to move. Courts don't expect decisions until mid-Summer, which could really lead to some fun preparing for schedules!