I've been a vegetarian for two days.

[cadalano]

you don't get it, leo. the points in your posts, no matter how valid or practical, are irrelevant to the backlash on spang. the offensive point he is making is that using animals makes a person immoral.

believe what you believe and be happy. start preaching self-righteous and insulting garbage to a group of people that are capable of thinking for themselves and don't be surprised to find yourself unpopular.

[Leonaerd]

But that's just one small negative, multiplied by the flame a la internet. This thread will go on for weeks and weeks with nobody gaining anything, other than a far-too-dramatic stance for or against somebody who they have no real relation with.

If it was about popularity, we'd all be on reddit farming karma. We want understanding, and it just doesn't happen very easily here. For me, the frustration oftentimes boils over ~

And yes, we're all capable of thinking for ourselves. This is why sharing ideas, constructively, is so uniquely interesting, when compared to most of the internets. It takes a mountain to move a mountain, etc.

sigh

[Winnow]

Perhaps Spang should support his vegan cause in other capacities, like farming or something. Just because you like baseball doesn't mean you're good at it.


Everything "Tastes like chicken" was invented by humans to support their blood lust for meat. I heard there was some ancient scroll that came out of Spang's ass that speaks of a cult back in "the day", deciding to cast a chicken-yum taste spell so they could keep eating discarded chicken balls from butcher shops. Before this sorcery took place, everything tasted like carrots. This ancient seekrit was supposed to have died with Colonel Sanders.

Ever wonder why things taste like chicken? Because chickens were meant to be eaten.

People eat meat because it tastes good to them. People ride roller coasters because it puckers their asses up. Humans do what they want. Cows would eat us too if they had our brains. Who the fuck cares about the perfect diet?

Eat what you want but keep the high and mighty pure vegan bullshit to yourself, sort of like whack job religious people should shut the fuck up about their religion outside of their homes. Someone preaching in their homes only hurts their kids. Force your kid to be a vegan and they will either kill you in your sleep or smell really bad and never marry.

Who cares about life? The search for life in our universe holds much interest to me but I wouldn't be opposed to eating it once we find it if it taste good, or a least similar to chicken. The only thing that interests me is finding a way to download my mind into some sort of matrix, allowing me to continue surfing for hentai until the sun burns out. Get one thing straight. We are all going to die. Time keeps ticking away bringing us closer to death. No one will give a fuck about your vegan bullshit. No one will give a fuck if you request that your body rot in some pasture to fertilize grass for cows saved from slaughter so they can munch their way to old age...and die and rot...to do what? Fertilize what for who?

[Aabidano]

But that's just one small negative, multiplied by the flame a la internet. This thread will go on for weeks and weeks with nobody gaining anything, other than a far-too-dramatic stance for or against somebody who they have no real relation with.

Life would be boring if you only talked to people who agree with you, I've ongoing real life discussions with co-workers that we've been revisting on and off for ~10 years now

We've had multiple ongoing (usually) polite technical and non- disagreements at work for years. Makes you think, good things come of it. Bringing up a twitter-ish corporate chat server has only expanded the discussion.

Wish I could remember how he put it, the pastor at my church said something along the lines of "that I don't believe as you do does not invalidate your belief, or neccesarily mean that I think you are wrong, damned or what-have-you. It simply means I don't agree with you. I leave it at that.".

[laneela]

Fuck I wish there were Amish down here. Those folks churn some tasty butter.

There's Mennonites in the Redlands area of Homestead. I don't believe they have butter but their entire menu is disgustingly good. Oh, and they're only open during the farming season so November'ish - April.

[Spang]

I'm taking the necessary steps to go vegan. This will take some time as I wear shoes and whatnot that are made of leather and will not replace them until I absolutely have to, since money isn't something I have a lot of. But as far as consuming food is concerned, once the ranch dressing is gone, I'll be vegan in that respect. I'll also be replacing my toiletry items with products from companies that don't test on animals (as long as they work). I've already been using Tom's of Maine toothpaste for quite some time, it's good stuff.

[Winnow]

The internet is run by meat eaters. Best to stay away. Read a long book by candle light (research, make sure no meat eaters made the candles) After all, if you're supporting meat eaters, the problem won't go away just by some loon deciding to go vegan...that's not going to save the world...this isn't about you...it's about changing lives...human and farm animals. The owner of Tom's of Maine toothpaste? ...drives around in a Hummer....but you can only do what you can to fight the good fight!

Not wearing leather shoes? Really? Leather that humans have used since their asses chilled due to thinning hair? I thought nature freaks would be all about wearing leather instead of plastic. You going to wear some straw shoes?

What you really should do is wear leather shoes made from test animals to honor their memory.

[Canelek]

BHahahaahahhaAaaaaaaaahsheheheee one

[masteen]

That was a flame worthy of the old Vault.

[Leonaerd]

No point being food-humane / arrogant-green unless you don't drive a car, use plastics or any other oil product, and strictly buy local food, clothes.. Everything. Either hardcore or waste of time. Unsustainable is as unsustainable does.

I eat healthy, drive to work and buy food from all over the place. A line is drawn for my benefit, not the world's. In fact, I harm the earth with my lifestyle.

You do too, power-consuming Internet dweller.

[Aslanna]

In fact, I harm the earth with my lifestyle.

You do too, power-consuming Internet dweller.

I can live with that.

[Boogahz]

You do too, power-consuming Internet dweller.

The Internet was created by humans, which means that it is not real.

[Xyun]

You do too, power-consuming Internet dweller.

The Internet was created by humans, which means that it is not real.

The internet was created by humans to justify the exploitation of shmorons.

[Boogahz]

[Boogahz]

[miir]

That looks like science and facts and icky stuff like that. Those have no place in this conversation!

Science was invented by humans.

[Boogahz]

and Facts are just made up

[Tyek]

This is one of the best threads in years.

[Spang]

You're welcome.

[Funkmasterr]

"angel of the lord, what are these tortured screams?". And the angel said unto me "these are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots. You see Spang, tomorrow is harvest day, and to them it is the holocaust."

I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers, and roared "hear me now, I have seen the light, they have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul. Damn you, let the rabbits wear glasses!". Save our brothers, can I get a amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.

Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life, this is necessary.

[Spang]

Carrots don't have a nervous system.

[Xyun]

and you don't have a brain.

[Dakanaf]

"angel of the lord, what are these tortured screams?". And the angel said unto me "these are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots. You see Spang, tomorrow is harvest day, and to them it is the holocaust."

I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers, and roared "hear me now, I have seen the light, they have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul. Damn you, let the rabbits wear glasses!". Save our brothers, can I get a amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.

Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life, this is necessary.

I was listening to that at work and thinking of this thread.

[miir]

Carrots don't have a nervous system.

The nervous system was invented by humans.

[masteen]

This thread is making my nervis HUGE.

[Aabidano]

Ahhh, but did you win yet?

[Canelek]

I am wondering if there is something to do with "human guilt" involved here. Some sort of hyper-guilt that makes people think about trivial shit way too much.

Of course, humans invented guilt too, so I guess yer all fucked.

[Spang]

I am wondering if there is something to do with "human guilt" involved here.

A conscience and compassion is involved here.

[Xyun]

Compassion for food!

[Aslanna]

I am wondering if there is something to do with "human guilt" involved here.

A conscience and compassion is involved here.

So if you are a meat eater you have no conscience or compassion? zomg Hitler was a vegetarian!

You really have an annoying habit of not including enough information in your responses thus leaving everyone having to guess wtf point you're trying to get across.

[pyrella]

Carrots don't have a nervous system.

I like this one. Insects, moles, rabbits, gophers, etc do - all slaughtered in the name of raising vegetables. They also all have nervous systems. At least the meat eaters have the decency to eat what we kill. In addition to usually having bred it in the first place - for the intents of consumption. Your vegan/vegetarian terrorism displaces and slaughters millions of creatures possessing a nervous system just so you can have a handful of leafy veggies you can and should be growing in your own hand tended garden. Meat eaters don't have the luxury of growing a cow on our window sill.

Also, if small rodentia, insects, etc aren't sentient enough for moral protection, I don't think vegan's should be allowed to use the 'why don't we eat humans then' as a counter for about 209375029375 of the arguments against being a veggie (pejorative).

[Spang]

So if you are a meat eater you have no conscience or compassion?

Eating meat doesn't mean you don't have any compassion, but you clearly don't have any compassion for the particular animals that you consume.

[Bubba Grizz]

I can honestly say that I like to eat meat. When I start to think about where the meat comes from I slap myself to get those thoughts out of my head. The meat I eat comes from the store. Wrapped in plastic or in some other way and never ever does it look like an animal when I cook it. (cept maybe for the chicken and such)

I think the reason we don't eat our dogs is because they are our pets and we bond with them. Though in Korea I did eat dog but I didn't know the dogs name or anything.

[Aslanna]

Eating meat doesn't mean you don't have any compassion, but you clearly don't have any compassion for the particular animals that you consume.

I don't think it's clear at all. But thanks for the yet again demonstration of high-horse douchebaggery we've come to know and love from you.

[Winnow]

I can honestly say that I like to eat meat.

This thread has been a huge coming out party!

[Spang]

Carrots don't have a nervous system.

I like this one. Insects, moles, rabbits, gophers, etc do - all slaughtered in the name of raising vegetables.

That's a true statement. It's impossible to stop the suffering of all animals, even if everyone went vegan. However, as a vegan or vegetarian, it's being greatly minimized.

This,

Your vegan/vegetarian terrorism displaces and slaughters millions of creatures possessing a nervous system

I'm not so sure about. Would you happen to have a source?

Also, you're omnivore-ism does the exact same thing, plus a whole lot more since you eat meat. Unless you only eat meat. In which case, I feel sorry for your colon.

[miir]

Your vegan/vegetarian terrorism displaces and slaughters millions of creatures possessing a nervous system

I'm not so sure about. Would you happen to have a source?

I'm sure his sources are as reliable and credible as yours.
And they were probably invented by humans.

[Aabidano]

I think the reason we don't eat our dogs is because they are our pets and we bond with them. Though in Korea I did eat dog but I didn't know the dogs name or anything.

Animals that don't earn their keep in some fashion are for "rich" nations, you don't see the practice anyplace else. In most of the world for most of history animals have worked for their keep, and then been eaten.

I've eaten the generic meat on a stick all over Asia, yummy stuff. The veggies were the dangerous bits due to hepatitus, the drinking water killed ~12 Japanese last time I was in Phuket.

Add in eagles, song birds, etc.. basically the whole food chain to the by-kill list.

I like this one. Insects, moles, rabbits, gophers, etc do - all slaughtered in the name of raising vegetables.

That's a true statement. It's impossible to stop the suffering of all animals, even if everyone went vegan. However, as a vegan or vegetarian, it's being greatly minimized.

Potentially, but only if you source every component of every item you buy or buy only from people who actually do, shopping at Whole Foods doesn't count.

Good ideal to shoot for if that's your thing, good luck.

[Aabidano]

I think the reason we don't eat our dogs is because they are our pets and we bond with them. Though in Korea I did eat dog but I didn't know the dogs name or anything.

Animals that don't earn their keep in some fashion are for "rich" nations, you don't see the practice anyplace else. In most of the world for most of history animals have worked for their keep, and then been eaten.

I've eaten the generic meat on a stick all over Asia, yummy stuff. The veggies were the dangerous bits due to hepatitis, the drinking water killed ~12 Japanese last time I was in Phuket.

Add in eagles, song birds, etc.. basically the whole food chain to the by-kill list.

I like this one. Insects, moles, rabbits, gophers, etc do - all slaughtered in the name of raising vegetables.

That's a true statement. It's impossible to stop the suffering of all animals, even if everyone went vegan. However, as a vegan or vegetarian, it's being greatly minimized.

Potentially, but only if you source every component of every item you buy or buy only from people who actually do, shopping at Whole Foods doesn't count.

Good ideal to shoot for if that's your thing, good luck.

[pyrella]

This,

Your vegan/vegetarian terrorism displaces and slaughters millions of creatures possessing a nervous system

I'm not so sure about. Would you happen to have a source?

Also, you're omnivore-ism does the exact same thing, plus a whole lot more since you eat meat. Unless you only eat meat. In which case, I feel sorry for your colon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97836&page=1
http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/ ... vegan-diet

And more along the same vein with a google search...

Also - your point that we don't digest all of the meat as we aren't meant to - we also don't process all of a plant. Humans don't have the enzymes to break down cellulose. We shouldn't be eating plants.


Also, when taking as a *species* - why are there hundreds of times more plant/nut based allergies than there are meat allergies? The human body is more likely to reject, if not go straight in to anaphylactic shock when consuming plant matter than animal matter. Cabbage, broccoli, nuts, sprouts, etc. are all well known to cause bloating, gasiness, and nausea....as they are not part of a 'natural diet'. To be fair, I have no idea what a natural diet is for humans as we live in every biome in every clime our planet has to offer. The only thing common amongst those are - Ungulates (lets not forget our horse eating Canadian friends, eh?!), fowl, fish, insects, and most rodents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergy

Foods

One of the most common food allergies is a sensitivity to peanuts. Peanut allergies may be extremely severe, but can sometimes be outgrown by children school-age.[13] Tree nuts, including pecans, pistachios, pine nuts, and walnuts, are another common allergen. Sufferers may be sensitive to one, or many, tree nuts.[14] Also seeds, including sesame seeds and poppy seeds, contain oils where protein is present, which may elicit an allergic reaction.[14]

Egg allergies affect one to two percent of children but are outgrown by about two thirds of children by the age of 5.[15] Typically the sensitivity is to proteins in the white, rather than the yolk.[14]

Milk, from cows, goats or sheep, is another common allergy-causing food, and many sufferers are also unable to tolerate dairy products such as cheese. Lactose intolerance, a common reaction to milk, is not in fact a form of allergy. A small portion of children with a milk allergy, roughly ten percent, will have a reaction to beef. Beef contains a small amount of protein that is present in cow's milk.[16]

Other foods containing allergenic proteins include soy, wheat, fish, shellfish, fruits, vegetables, spices, synthetic and natural colors, chicken, and chemical additives.

I was gonna try and present the fallacy of the vegan/meat eater longest life comparison - but I found just as many sources showing one over the other - specific ways of dying go up or down for each, but over all, the diet 'lifestyles' don't offer much advantages over the other as far as longevity is concerned - everyone's more likely die from a lightning strike than they are for having a specific dietary preference. Doesn't matter whether veg/omni/pure carnivore - if you eat an unbalanced diet, it will cause health problems.

[Spang]

Davis admits he doesn't really know how many animals are lost each year to agriculture...

Next.

[Canelek]

I supose the "best" health option would be Mr Annoying Health Nut. They generally have a mixed diet, but get all crazy when fat is involved. CliffBar dude consumes food for fuel, not for enjoyment.

However, at least Health Nut Dude is not all butthurt and guilty-conscience like vegans!

[pyrella]

Davis admits he doesn't really know how many animals are lost each year to agriculture...

Next.

Because there's not an exact number you deny the fact that this happens? The land itself is plowed (good bye nests/homes), combines tear anything smaller than a cow to shreds. Do you need an exact number to find it to be a true statement, or is it going against what you want to believe so you dismiss it? Do you deny animals with nervous systems are killed directly or inadvertently through modern farming techniques? By your rationale, I eat maybe a handful of animals a year, but since you don't really know how many I do - I must not eat meat at all.

Also - more adverse affects on the human body from 'edible' plants vs. edible meat - no comment? Sounds like a gastronomic Stockholme syndrome to me.


This all boils down to you're all in or you're all out. You can't call people murderers whilst murdering. You can call them fellow consumers with different tastes. A Coke vs. Pepsi debate will have better facts and stronger arguments than this one will ever have.

Oh and all the 'our ancestors weren't meat eaters' arguments - yeah, spears and arrowheads are used for capturing the elusive wooly rutabega, I'm sure.

[Aslanna]

Don't mind Spang. He seems to pick and choose what he actually responds to.

[Spang]

Davis admits he doesn't really know how many animals are lost each year to agriculture...

Next.

Because there's not an exact number you deny the fact that this happens?

I never denied that it doesn't happen. In fact--let me scroll up for a second--I said, "That's a true statement. It's impossible to stop the suffering of all animals, even if everyone went vegan. However, as a vegan or vegetarian, it's being greatly minimized." You made the claim that my "vegan/vegetarian terrorism displaces and slaughters millions of creatures possessing a nervous system." I merely asked for some proof. Your proof is a guy who admits "he doesn't really know how many animals are lost each year to agriculture."

[Spang]

Oh and all the 'our ancestors weren't meat eaters' arguments - yeah, spears and arrowheads are used for capturing the elusive wooly rutabega, I'm sure.

Humans predate fire and tools. Unless they were slaughtering animals with their bare hands and eating them like a cheetah eats a gazelle, they were foraging like a druid.

[Spang]

Also - more adverse affects on the human body from 'edible' plants vs. edible meat - no comment?

Heart disease is the leading cause of death.

[Aslanna]

Also - more adverse affects on the human body from 'edible' plants vs. edible meat - no comment?

Heart disease is the leading cause of death.

So .. Eating meat, apparently of any kind.. in any amount = heart disease? You're such a tool.

[Spang]

So .. Eating meat, apparently of any kind.. in any amount = heart disease?

I never said that.

[Canelek]

Oh and all the 'our ancestors weren't meat eaters' arguments - yeah, spears and arrowheads are used for capturing the elusive wooly rutabega, I'm sure.

Haha!