3 red lights of Doom

[Akanae]

So we bought our 360 last March (and did not opt for the extended 2 year warranty). With three people in the house we have logged maybe 100 hours on the machine and this last weekend it gave us the 3 red flashing failure lights.

My husband called the 360 support line and they want to charge us $140 and won't even guarantee what kind of console we would get back (refurbished, new, etc). And we would never get our hard drive contents back. Are we completely screwed? Or is there some way to fix it without dealing with Microsoft support.

[Moonwynd]

Sorry to hear about your woes. I just noticed this thread because I am heavily considering an Xbox 360. I am not a console gamer - so getting used to something other than a keyboard will be interesting.

I never opt for the extended warranties...but I am thinking I may do so if I get the 360.

Good luck with your 360.

Regards,

Moon

[Boogahz]

I picked up the extended warranty at Best Buy, but I got the 3 red light error within the 1 year warranty period. It's too bad that you didn't experience it until the year was over

[Animalor]

I thought that with 360 replacement, they told people to keep everything that is detachable from the 360 (including the HDD) and only had people send in the barebone system for repair/replacement.

I may be wrong however. Thanksfully, mine is still humming.

[Winnow]

Keep this thread in the Xbox forums. We don't need this bad press getting out!

Xbox 360 quality control has improved since the early models. I have an early one but did take it apart and applied better thermal paste to the GPU and CPU heatsinks, cut out the back for better airflow, etc.

It's a bit challenging to get into your 360 and do thatsort of thing, but if your're willing to rick brickin your onsole, you could try taking a look to see if it's a heat issue with bad thermal paste job. (don't even consider this unless you're comfortable with doing this sort of thing on a PC as it's more difficult that working on a PC)

[Moonwynd]

In my research of consoles (I was considering the 360 and the PS3) I have read numerous articles that the red ring of death has befallen the 360 more than the industry norm of 3-5%. I know this is anecdotal evidence...but it is still disconcerting. I also read that the issues seem to revolve around overheating - poor airflow - and poor quality solder overheating and breaking certain circuits.

The PS3 was out of the question at the current pricepoint. I would just invest that sort of money into a new PC.

[Funkmasterr]

Yeah, you absolutely have to buy the extended warranty with these. I had trouble with my first one, and had to replace it - the second one I just recently sold to a friend when I bought the Elite, and it is still working fine. The quality has definately improved.

[Boogahz]

I know this is anecdotal evidence...but it is still disconcerting. I also read that the issues seem to revolve around overheating - poor airflow - and poor quality solder overheating and breaking certain circuits.

I don't think it has to do with the overheating, or it didn't with mine. My 360 had not been turned on for 2 weeks, and it was only used for about 5 minutes when it was (showed someone the trailer for 300). It is pretty much kept on a glass-top nesting table with a fan nearby but not aimed at the 360. It happened to my sister's 360 at about the same time. We think ours had to do with a bad lightning storm the weekend prior to noticing that the consoles died.

[Moonwynd]

I came home with an Xbox 360 tonight. After carefully searching for the best deal I came to realize that if I wanted a new in box 360 I would go to a regular retailer. I checked eBay and didn't like what I saw - funny, there were several sellers selling the premium 360 (retail $399) for $250. Upon careful inspection I saw they were charging $149.99 for shipping and handling - what a crock.

I researched and researched - I decided to buy it locally for the standard retail price (which seems to be as low as I can find it) at Circuit City. They had a deal going where you got an extra wireless controller (now I have 2) and a free copy of Fusion Frenzy 2. They were out of FF2 so the customer service lady offered me Viva Pinata.

I then purchased Forza 2 and took advantage of another offer where I picked up Dead Rising for $19.99. They had a copy of Test Drive Unlimited on clearance for $19.99 so I grabbed that as well - and they had that interconnect three fan cooler on sale for $19.99...so I grabbed that - went home and hooked the puppy up to the 37" LCD TV using the HD connections on the 360 cable.

It took me a while to get used to the console controller (so used to gaming on a PC!). I was a bit surprised that my hard drive capacity on the 360 shows up at 13.8 GB with 11.3 available free space. I thought it was supposed to be a 20 GB - I will have to investigate further.

Oh, I got around buying the $99 wireless adapter by connecting my laptop to the 360 with the CAT5 patch cable and enabling internet sharing on my laptop (the laptop is wireless). I heard you can buy a cheaper off brand wireless adapter for the 360 - I will have to research that as well.

After getting Xbox Live Gold and playing for the last 5 hours - I am tired but happy with my decision and my first true foray into console gaming. Anyone have an Xbox Live ID? Would be fun to game with you all. Mine is very original...it is Moonwynd.

Regards,

Moon

[Winnow]

They had a deal going where you got an extra wireless controller (now I have 2) and a free copy of Fusion Frenzy 2. They were out of FF2 so the customer service lady offered me Viva Pinata.

Good trade. Viva > FF2 (although FF2 has kinda fun mini games if you have kids, their just basic and don't take advantage of the 360's power)

After getting Xbox Live Gold and playing for the last 5 hours - I am tired but happy with my decision and my first true foray into console gaming. Anyone have an Xbox Live ID? Would be fun to game with you all. Mine is very original...it is Moonwynd.

Regards,

Moon

With Xbox Live Gold, you have a great deal IMO. Basically you can download demo game after demo game and have fun trying them out. There's tons of "free" entertainment you can download with Live.

With Microsoft putting a demo or two out a month that is playable and sometimes quite entertaining, you have a way to stay entertained while you wait on the specific titles you want to play.

The HD comes with some intro videos that you can delete after watching and also has some other crap you might be able to delete. You'll be able to recapture some of that space but some of it is reserved for the dashboard, emulation files for xbox games, saved games, etc. You should be able to manage getting 10 demos or so on your HD at any one time along with some videos and other stuff.

You made a wise decision buying a 360 and I'm totally unbiased when it comes to consoles.

[Kluden]

I'm waiting on the die shrink, then I'll buy a 360. I'm hoping with the die shrink they will have the HD-DVD drive built in, and a larger hard drive, for the original price...one can dream.

Failure rate with the people I know is 30%. 3 out of 10 of the 360 owners I game with have had to exercise their warranties, and yes, Microsoft is much better about turning a console around to you now than before...and its always your original console now...supposedly.

To compare the failure rate...out of those same 10 people, we all own PS2's as well...and only one of those has died in 5 years. A few have gamecubes, no failures there.

[Akanae]

My husband was on the phone with their support and they wouldn't guarantee what condition console he would get back (refurbished, his own, new etc). Supposedly when we got the 360 bundle from Costco they had a 'forever' return policy on electronics so we are going to try and see if they will take a return on it.

Oh and I know only one person with a PS2 and it broke, so 100% of people who I know with PS2's have had theirs break!

[Aslanna]

Oh and I know only one person with a PS2 and it broke, so 100% of people who I know with PS2's have had theirs break!

Sample size is too small!


The 360 failure rate is a well-known issue and has been reported widely. I personally wouldn't buy one at this time.

[Akanae]

Took the 360 back to Costco today and they accepted the return no questions asked... we will probably pick up an Elite from somewhere else now and get the extended warranty this time around.

[Zamtuk]

Will someone in the know (read: anyone but winnow) explain to me if the above problems have anything to do with the Xbox elite which I plan on buying in a month or two?

[Moonwynd]

Glad it worked out for you. I didn't get the extended warranty from Circuit City. It was $119 for a two year extended warranty - I just thought that was a bit steep - I may live to regret that decision...we shall see.

[Winnow]

Will someone in the know (read: anyone but winnow) explain to me if the above problems have anything to do with the Xbox elite which I plan on buying in a month or two?

nice avatar!

I know the exact string of serial #'s to avoid from a bad batch of Elites but now I'm not going to tell you!

[Aslanna]

Will someone in the know (read: anyone but winnow) explain to me if the above problems have anything to do with the Xbox elite which I plan on buying in a month or two?

Last I heard they affect the Elite just the same. I'd probably wait for the 65nm before buying one.

[Akanae]

Will someone in the know (read: anyone but winnow) explain to me if the above problems have anything to do with the Xbox elite which I plan on buying in a month or two?

nice avatar!

I know the exact string of serial #'s to avoid from a bad batch of Elites but now I'm not going to tell you!

Do you really have this information? Don't hold out on us if so! I could be wrong but I thought there was a 2 year extended warranty through Microsoft for like $60.

[Kluden]

Just buy from COSTCO and you will never have to worry. They take anything back, they're freaks! They don't have the elite though, online. Maybe in certain stores, but doubtful.

They did solve a decent amount of the heat issues last winter with that revision, but I truly won't be trusting it until the complete die shrink to 65nm occurs. Problem is, they keep pushing that back. I think its Fall of this year now. Used to be Q1 2007. Its almost like they don't want to do it, because then people are going to be screaming for the price drop.


edit: And when Microsoft updated their warranty, they added the "original hardware" return clause...of course they put a "MOST" qualifier in that statement. The warranty update is HERE.

[Moonwynd]

I just purchased the two year extended warranty direct from Microsoft for $49.99. I checked the manufactured date on mine at it is 4/24/2006 - and I just bought it this Friday.

[Aslanna]

Not a solution but at least they are addressing the problem:

(See post below!)

360 Warranty extended to 3 years for the RRoD problem. Still 1 year for general issues.

[Boogahz]

Not a solution but at least they are addressing the problem:

http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/openlet.jpg

360 Warranty extended to 3 years for the RRoD problem. Still 1 year for general issues.

interesting link...what was it supposed to go to?

[Aslanna]

Bah. Lame.

Open Letter From Peter Moore
To our Xbox Community:

You've spoken, and we’ve heard you. Good service and a good customer experience are areas of the business that we care deeply about. And frankly, we've not been doing a good enough job.

Some of you have expressed frustration with the customer experiences you have had with Xbox 360; frustration with having to return your console for service after receiving the general hardware error message on the console.

The majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles have had a terrific experience from their first day, and continue to, day in and day out. But when anyone questions the reliability of our product, or our commitment to our customers, it's something I take very seriously.

We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console.

We are also implementing some important policy changes intended to keep you in the game, worry-free.

As of today, all Xbox 360 consoles are covered by an enhanced warranty program to address specifically the general hardware failures indicated by the three flashing red lights on the console. This applies to new and previously-sold consoles. While we will still have a general one year console warranty (two years in some countries), we are announcing today a three-year warranty that covers any console that displays a three flashing red lights error message. If a customer has an issue indicated by the three flashing red lights, Microsoft will repair the console free of charge—including shipping—for three years from the console’s purchase date. We will also retroactively reimburse any of you who paid for repairs related to problems indicated by this error message in the past. In doing so, Microsoft stands behind its products and takes responsibility to ensure that every Xbox 360 console owner continues to have a fantastic gaming experience.

If we have let any of you down in the experience you have had with your Xbox 360, we sincerely apologize. We are taking responsibility and are making these changes to ensure that every Xbox 360 owner continues to have a great experience.

This will take a few days to roll out globally, and I appreciate your continued patience as we launch this program. I've posted an FAQ that should address some additional questions, and we'll update it over the next few days.

I want to thank you, on behalf of all us at Microsoft, for your loyalty.

[Kluden]

Color me amazed...whatever color that is...

So this is admitting that their hardware has a common failure point(s), guess all that hoopla about "normal failure rates" is BS.

...with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console.

[Aslanna]

Microsoft facing $1bn Xbox bill

Some Xbox Live gamers have complained about fraud

Microsoft has said that it is facing a bill of more than $1bn to cover the cost of offering extended warranties, after failings with its Xbox 360. The company admitted it had been forced to make "an unacceptable number of repairs" to the consoles after key hardware failed.

Customers who suffer the problems will now be given a free three-year warranty, the company said.

The failures are indicated by three red flashing lights on the console.

Microsoft, has not revealed how many of its machines have suffered the problem, but said the number was "bigger than we are comfortable with." It added that the move - which will also see some people reimbursed for postage and repairs on consoles which were out of warranty - was aimed at keeping the loyalty of its customers.

"The majority of Xbox 360 owners are having a great experience with their console and have from day one," said Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's Entertainment & Devices Division.

"But this problem has caused frustration for some of our customers and for that, we sincerely apologise."

It added its Xbox division was still expected to make a profit during the financial year beginning 1 July 2007.

Migration manoeuvre

Separately the company has announced an October launch of its advanced version of the Xbox - the Xbox 360 Elite - in Japan, where it lags behind Nintendo and Sony in the console market.

And the company has also unveiled plans to open a software development centre in Canada which it said was a way of hiring talented people from abroad who would struggle to obtain a US working visa.

The Vancouver location would "allow the company to continue to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by the immigration issues in the US", Microsoft said.

1 billion bill and still plans to make a profit. Guess they're doing slightly better than Sony with the PS3 at the moment. Yes I realize they had a year headstart settle down already.

I also find the plans to build an 'outsourcing centre' in Canada (Not their words but it's the same!) interesting.

[Funkmasterr]

At least they admitted it and are going to attempt to make it right. Sony on the other hand, just made all of the ridiculous comments that someone posted a while back - and is continuing to insist that their consoles don't sit on the shelves for more than 5 minutes (I just want to say, dust must get an inch thick on shit at gamestop REAL fast), that's sad. Then again, maybe they will decide to change their attitude a bit as well.

[Kluden]

I doubt Sony will change their attitude...its the culture or something.

Although, apparently the PS3 price drop is coming next week. Circuit City is dropping the price to $499 on Thursday, and anonymous retail outlets have confirmed the same drop next week. (As someone pointed out in the PS3 thread).

Conveniently, that gives Sony E3 to announce the price drop before it hits the streets.

The thing that bothers me about the 360 warranty freebie, is that now Microsoft has a reason to NOT do a price drop. If the PS3 price drop is permanent, and not just a circuit city weekly sale, then I'll be picking one up in a couple months after the "stale" stock gets off the shelves

I'm still holding out hope for an xbox with built in HD DVD drive and "built in" wireless for $500 this holiday season. I still can't believe the wireless isn't built in to this console. (that would make its options identical to PS3 and price).

[Moonwynd]

Two weeks ago I forked over 49 bucks to Microsoft to extend my warranty on my new 360 from 1 year to 3. I called them on Friday about a refund and they said they would not give me a refund as they are not grandfathering in people who paid for the extended Microsoft warranty.

Bullshit.

[Aslanna]

Perhaps.. But more could go wrong with it than just the RRoD which is all this new warranty covers. So not a total loss!

[Moonwynd]

Perhaps.. But more could go wrong with it than just the RRoD which is all this new warranty covers. So not a total loss!

Yeah, like me taking a hammer to it if it gives me any sass..

[Boogahz]

I would keep both as well. There really is more that has gone wrong with the units, but the three red light error has been the most widespread.

[Zygar]

lol

http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20070709

[Funkmasterr]

Zygar officially has the best avatar to ever grace these forums. That is all.