Important Changes to EQ... Nerfs Inside!

Melrin_Specclaster · Post by **Melrin_Specclaster** » October 9, 2002, 3:18 pm

Dunno wtf you're doing, but I can solo the arch, and a chunk of arena with NO cleric. This CH nerf has jack and shit to do with DC. This has to do with tanks moving into the 7500+ hp range. With pop I'm positive that tanks will at some point reach 8500+ hp, they just wanted to remove partially the fact that CH will always heal max. Slightly offset the fact of more hp on the tanks. Dire charm is a toy, like many EQ toys, powerful toy when wielded correctly, but it has yet to make any battle make or break, or even remotely.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 9, 2002, 3:18 pm

Some have suggested that Mages will be crying tonight, all I can say is that only the dumb ones will.

Mages being one trick ponies going away??? WOOOOOOOOOTTTTT

Melrin_Specclaster · Post by **Melrin_Specclaster** » October 9, 2002, 3:21 pm

can make himself noticed and useful just like many of the other non-tank/heal classes. Just the fact is 90% of the mages suck at doing so.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 9, 2002, 3:33 pm

on the average raid with farstorm i coh any number of people before the raid, i summon whatever focus items people need, drop rods for the buffers so they can get full quick, summon the misc crap that people always seem to forget, food/water/arrows. during the fights I generally have some sort of debuffing responsibility, as well as coordinating coh for any late comers while we move to the target.. there is plenty for a mage to do.. there's probably plenty for 2 or 3 mages to do before the fight.. theres probably not enough to go around for 6 mages before the fight. Most fights anymore the rods i drop at the beginning go unused.. they are mainly useful to us during the prep portion of the raid, or to mod up for a steady stream of COH, or after a wipe..

If i thought for one second the mobs would be retuned at the same time the changes to the mod rods go in i would be fine with it.. the only thing i would change is still make them dropable.. leave the one minute thing on there.. it will still control how fast they get used.. the targetting thing is for crap.

one thing also to put a one minute timer on it means guess what.. it will use a buff slot like donals bp CH.. so not only do i have to target the cleric but you can bet they right click that thing with 15 buffs they will get the "your spell will not take hold" message and lose the charge.. and of course expect me to make another one..

Happy Happy Joy Joy..

Do us all a favor and just take the damned things out completely..

-Ajran

Hayley · Post by **Hayley** » October 9, 2002, 3:40 pm

I would have to say that 90% of the mages I have seen are extremely proactive prior to and during a raid. They will adapt and overcome I have no doubts. Maybe your guild needs to recruit different mages if they are all such lazy bastards.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 9, 2002, 3:51 pm

If you think rogues are outdamaging monks, you are only partly right. If a rogue is tanking, he will not have the same damage output as a monk. The only way a comparatively geared rogue will outdamage a monk is if the rogue lets the monk tank. Frontal damage from rogues is still not as high as a ranger or monk. We can do some decent tankage with the combination of chain AC and good damage avoidance though.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 9, 2002, 4:11 pm

Exactly Mel, the only times preraid I am sitting on arse is usually because I am mana genning or swapping spells.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 9, 2002, 4:53 pm

another curious thought. With the new targetable mod rod, will it just be a straight buff, or will they receive a mod rod in their inventory or on their mouse cursor. If the either of the latter, I expect a confirmation box in the week following...either way, it's pretty pointless.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » October 9, 2002, 4:56 pm

Instead of dealing with just the ground, putting rods in a line or whatever.. now they need to target each caster individually for each rod, and deal with all the tells every minute or so... i dunno.. think therell be a lot of pissed off mages...

Gnomie · Post by **Gnomie** » October 9, 2002, 4:56 pm

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 9, 2002, 5:02 pm

its easier to type /rt than it is to drop a mod rod in a crowd anyways

Melrin_Specclaster · Post by **Melrin_Specclaster** » October 9, 2002, 5:07 pm

Just shows the ease of the encounter. Farstorm mostly fights pre-luclin stuff with much fewer hp. When you get to those 15+ minute fights, a cleric will die and when they do rods are the way to get useful fast. This will put a cleric out to the extent of necro supply and FT they have. Will make losing ppl (clerics mainly) much more painful.

Gnomies · Post by **Gnomies** » October 9, 2002, 5:10 pm

I think the new mage changes are a good idea.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 9, 2002, 5:23 pm

We've killed Lcea Katta and IV a number of times so have gotten a taste of those long fights.. Rods get used.. but not like i am burning through 2 full mana bars for em..

OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of times i am the only mage and OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of times there is only one shaman.. I get plenty of roles to play at any given raid.. Being bored at a raid is NOT something i have to deal with. If i'm sittin on my ass its because i don;t have the mana to make a mod rod and mod myself up to full..

-Ajran

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 9, 2002, 5:56 pm

Monk AC softcap lowering is not going to drastcally affect the majority of monks in XP situations and their DPS ensures their role in a raid, even if they are not a puller.

The CH nerf is going to only affect the people that were using stacking sploits to make Main Tanks with in excess of 9k HP and even then as long as cleric Healing is => Mob DPS, not a lot will change.

Mage rod nerf sucks for them all around, but not much can be done. It is sure going to make res recovery more lengthy tho, which wil hopefuly dilute the zerg sticking tactic. Would be nice to see mages get the modified spell and have the current one changed to no drop so they can still self mod for solo and XP group play when the situation calls for it. At the very least they shoud really trim the casting times and resist rates on the bigger mage nukes since thats what made it more attractive to rod their mana away in the first place. Everyone get ready for the ubers to start stocking up on two boxed Necro Mana whores to replace T-Rods.

Manaburn got turned into a griefing skill, plain and simple. The nerfed form will still have a time and place where it will be useful, but wizards didn't really lose too much here. LEts hope they dont fuck up stacking with the mana burn recourse mechanic, or better yet make it dispellable.

Not bad changes, needed ones in fact, but what the hell are they thinking putting all these alterations in less than a month from PoP release? They are going to retune all >500Khp encounters when they havent even finnished adjusting the spells in PoP? Christ there are still things that dont work from Luclin yet. Servers are going to be going to be comming down twice a day for the next couple months I bet.

Pubin · Post by **Pubin** » October 9, 2002, 6:14 pm

Modrod thing likely just turned necros back into mana pumps.

Yay for everything else.

JloveFizzboom · Post by **JloveFizzboom** » October 9, 2002, 6:38 pm

Jice has it right on manaburn -- sadly what could and should have been a wonderful addition and ability was turned into nothing but a griefing skill at the high end.

Wonderful quotes to remember about manaburn - "Um, that was engaged guys.." -- "Pretty stupid to tell a guild with 10 manaburn wizards that a mob is up...../g random 301 on the white scale - nice haul on this one, those gimps"

"Incoming Wuoshi, be ready!" - "She just dropped off target?" - "4 foh wizards in just ported in, go figure."

---

I loved my ability, but honestly I'm glad that its changed. Perhaps now the guilds with the best equipment in the game and millions of pp in the guild bank can actually leave some smaller dragons alive so that smaller guilds can enjoy the encounters as they were designed to be, instead of loot greed making them all a complete joke.

I will remember a few nice crits on Rage, Trak, and even Lodi fondly -- gratz me on Spell Casting Fury Mastery 2

Valgul · Post by **Valgul** » October 9, 2002, 6:43 pm

Welcome Jlove, Jackass!
WOOT! Got it this time.
Once Again, Welcome Jlove!!!

JloveFizzboom · Post by **JloveFizzboom** » October 9, 2002, 7:55 pm

I notice an interesting new feature here that didn't used to be on Flamevault -- what exactly does this STFU button do

Karae · Post by **Karae** » October 9, 2002, 7:58 pm

Akaran_D wrote:I think my anal cavity just stretched to 5 times it's normal Vision capicty.

Honest to all, what the hell are they thinking? MB, make it somthing that doesn't work against mobs 63 up. CH.. that scares me a little. The mod rod change? THE HELL does this fix? Monk defense? I can't make up my mind.

All my mage / cleric / monk / wizard friends are going to be crying tonight, for this I am sure.

The real question is: What the hell are YOU thinking? Save your sebilis opinions for sebilis.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » October 9, 2002, 8:08 pm

Jice Virago wrote:
Mage rod nerf sucks for them all around, but not much can be done. It is sure going to make res recovery more lengthy tho, which wil hopefuly dilute the zerg sticking tactic. Would be nice to see mages get the modified spell and have the current one changed to no drop so they can still self mod for solo and XP group play when the situation calls for it. At the very least they shoud really trim the casting times and resist rates on the bigger mage nukes since thats what made it more attractive to rod their mana away in the first place. Everyone get ready for the ubers to start stocking up on two boxed Necro Mana whores to replace T-Rods.

I don't see how you can say, with a straight face, that the mod rod nerf sucks for mages. I'd be throwing a fucking party if I were a mage right now. There is absolutely nothing fun about summoning mod rods constantly for 20-30 minutes...unless you're some kind of obsessive/compulsive freak. *wink*Jelatin*wink*

Yes, this will wreak havok on a few guilds that have relied heavily on mod rods, but the bottom line is that it's an IMPROVEMENT for the enjoyability of the mage class.

Another note, mages don't need any damage increases. They're very likely the most damaging class in the game, when they focus entirely on doing damage.

Two boxed Necro Mana whores? Man, I hope so. I sure as hell ain't memming that fucking spell.

Overall you're dead on, though.

Klydon · Post by **Klydon** » October 9, 2002, 8:09 pm

Complementary Jackass! for Jlove

Mana Burn is a great concept and the new fixes should go a long way to fixing the grief killing that was going on. This was a big problem with Rage before they went to the shard system. Show up with a couple of MB wizzies and the cleric to get it in the group at the last minute and wam, bam thank you mama.. cleric epic. Never mine the poor saps that had been there for a long time with a conventional raid force easily capable of dispatching Rage.

The mod rod nerf is poorly done. Mages are still going to be rod hoars if nothing else changes with their nukes and they get to deal with the fun of hotkeying clerics and feeding rods to them during battle.

The biggest part of this I feel bad for mages is it was a way for them to regen their own mana while soloing or in group xp groups. If they don't get rid of the spell all together, I agree with Jice in that I would like to see the current rod be no drop for them and the new rod a different spell. The mod rod crap is going to get changed... several times.. before it is over with because there are too many loose ends open on it now.

Monks needed to be fixed, but school is out until we find out how much they got scaled back. A side benefit VI will probably never do in compensation is to see a slight reduction in FD failure rates and/or perhaps a slightly faster refresh rate on FD since they can no longer take the beating they once could.

How many other level 39 spells are in the end game? Not much of a big deal on that one and it needed to be fixed. Clerics could get by being a much lower level than anyone else on a raid for one reason only.. they had CH. Still will be the case until the bigger heal becomes necessary in the end game, but at least there will be some differentiation in spell ability from a 39 cleric and a level 61+ cleric when it comes to the greatest heal.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » October 9, 2002, 8:36 pm

The real question is: What the hell are YOU thinking? Save your sebilis opinions for sebilis.

I'm thinking I can come up with a better flame than leyor sucks cock, for starters.

I'm thinking that by changing mod rods to ND yer going to have OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of mages crying foul over having to pray they don't lag and get tareting fucked when a cleric goes oom.

I'm thinking that if the way they impliment the lowering of monk damage mitigation, there are going to be quite a few monks heavily pissed when FD fails.

I'm thinking that VI will fuck up the tuning of current mobs to be either impossible to kill or so easy that every guild with 2 groups of 60 is going to be able to beat down ntov until it's fixed, which knowing the ammount of time it takes fo VI to you know.. fix somthing.. could be quite a awhile.

And personally? I didn't mind the MB on kunark dragons that much. I think by making it 1 MB a minute isn't going to do anything worthwhile, and almost mitigates the bonus of the skill.

So Krae, now you know what the hell I'm thinking. And really? You shouldn't try to insult someone because they're doing somthing you can't. You know. Like thinking.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » October 9, 2002, 8:45 pm

WTF is all this fucking whinning about? Oh boo fucking hoo I have to summon mod rods for the raid! It is sooo boring Waaaa!

Gimme a fucking break! Let's see Clerics do what on a raid?

Count to 3 or 5 hit CH
Rinse repeat

Bleh!

Let's face it VI will never make everyone happy.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 9, 2002, 9:06 pm

Im sure most mages will rejoice over not being rod whores, but a lot of mages who used rods to boost their personal mana regen when soloing or in groups are getting screwed by this.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 9, 2002, 11:27 pm

Another note, mages don't need any damage increases. They're very likely the most damaging class in the game, when they focus entirely on doing damage.

I've seen more than one parse with an epic mage coming in right behind the rogues in medium to long fights.

Joramile · Post by **Joramile** » October 9, 2002, 11:39 pm

In OFFENSIVE capabilties, i believe it should go:

Rogue (from behind)
Monk
Ranger
Rogue (from front)
A buncha other classes.
INT CASTERS

In DEFENSEIVE capabilties:

Plate classes
Chain + Monk (becuz monks got the super dodging skills, they are pretty much equal as the chain)
Pleather
Cloth

Seems pretty logical to me!

Ulvian · Post by **Ulvian** » October 10, 2002, 12:12 am

One thing.
The new mod rods will only be usable once per minute, and somewhere within a different post from VI it stated that the new ratio for mana rod will be 360 mana to 450hp (Roughly virtual 6 mana per "tick") I guess thats not so bad, only shit will be schooling your mages to time their rod summons to the cleric using the rods (Seeing as it doesn't say anything @ not being able to have a rod summoned for you immediatelly after using one, and then waiting till the 1 minute timer recycles)

Monk Mitigation: Um, yep, I can see that making sense. You just dont go outdamaging a warrior, and then to top it off, out tanking him. Sorry, you have been De-accesorized ladies.

All I can see coming up is BST getting their anuses with a similar treatment soon, as well as Rogue defense cap...which more or less most rogues dont give a flying fuck about in the high end game anyway.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 10, 2002, 1:05 am

Yay, they no touchy rogues! weeeee!

Your nerf is coming in the form of no new Uber pokers in PoP. Rogue abilities aren't the problem, the commonality of pokers with unholy dmg/delay ratios is.

Aorna · Post by **Aorna** » October 10, 2002, 1:15 am

I think the cleric CH nerf will be seen in PoP.

How many hp do you think a 65 level war will have with PoP gear? 10k at least, I'd think.

AA abilities do not affect the Shaman and Druid CHs (from what was reported on castersrealm). While they DO affect the current cleric CH, maybe they won't affect the new 7500hp CH.

I'm not too concerned though, there will probably be CH2 for 800 mana and 15 second cast time when PoP is released

. Oh, but it has a recast time of 5 minutes.

Aorna
60 Cleric
Rune of War

Trias · Post by **Trias** » October 10, 2002, 1:15 am

Gidjet wrote:"-I can kinda see where monks are pissed on the nerf, no HUGE biggie, but sometimes when they pull they pull some strong shit and usually need their defense, guess they'll just have to update their tactics...justlike mod rods... "

Verant never approved of the "tactic" of pulling to begin with. They might be hoping this change in monks results in "less" pulling.

Maybe...

welcome to the board Zalana...JACKASS!

Drustwyn · Post by **Drustwyn** » October 10, 2002, 1:40 am

the great anal sex debate was a bit more interesting.

Joramile · Post by **Joramile** » October 10, 2002, 4:07 am

On top of raising the level cap, 255 will no longer be the hard cap for your stats! INC COMPLAINTS! RUN FER THE HILLS!

Nadonius · Post by **Nadonius** » October 10, 2002, 5:48 am

but the real question is, how are they gonna break bards in this patch?

Ninan · Post by **Ninan** » October 10, 2002, 10:08 am

With the tools out in todays game getting 100 plus regen a tick on mana is quite easily doable, so mods could be completely done away with as far as I am concerned. It was way too powerful to begin with.

CH should be nerfed and right now 7500 will still completely heal any tank in the game.

MB was abused, good call there.

Monks getting retuned is actually a good thing for they were overpowered and way ahead of warriors taking OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS less damage.

All was due and all nerfs were correct imo.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 10, 2002, 10:26 am

/smack Nads

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » October 10, 2002, 2:15 pm

The only thing I'm pissed about is not being refunded my 24 fucking AA's I spent in Quick Summoning to be better at what USED to be my primary function. Guess I'll be saving up 12 more to max Spell Casting Fury for my NEW role.

It's gonna suck not being able to pass out rods to all the melee before encounters. We've been so spoiled for so long being able to stockpile all that mana.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 10, 2002, 2:48 pm

To truly fix the problem of mod rods is to get them removed entirely and tune the encounters appropriately..

The difference between a mage before next patch and one after unless like me you refuse to cast the fuckin thing (if i could remove it from my spell book i would but since it isn't a vendor purchased spell i can't) is i'll be casting the shit DURING the fight instead of BEFORE the fight thereby making the statement:

"an excellent source of damage"

false..

-Ajran

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 10, 2002, 4:10 pm

actually a better idea and saves work for the development team and less chance of screwing something up.

leave mod rods as they are.. tag the spells or the rod effect itself as UNUSABLE in ANY POP zone..

boom make PoP encounters without them being even a consideration.

leave velious/luclin boss mobs alone since they are designed around the rods being in the game and frankly to retune the mobs you know its gonna get screwed up. plus i think it will create a huge influx of guilds into those encounters increasing competition for mobs where it isn't needed.

-Ajran

Katria · Post by **Katria** » October 10, 2002, 4:24 pm

FOH cries about monks.
Monks get a nerf.
FOH message board mysteriously down.

Appears that someone didn't want to deal with the backlash of being a whiny bitch.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 10, 2002, 5:41 pm

Katria wrote:FOH cries about monks.
Monks get a nerf.
FOH message board mysteriously down.

Appears that someone didn't want to deal with the backlash of being a whiny bitch.

You have discovered teh conspiracy!!!1!1!1!!11

Katria you fucking gimp, do you ever say anything of value, or are you just here to be a little jealous bitch all the time? Believe it or not there is game content outside of Lower Guk.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 10, 2002, 6:04 pm

Katria wrote:Appears that someone didn't want to deal with the backlash of being a whiny bitch.

OMG THEY'VE FOUND US! DIVE DIVE!!!

i repeat....conspiracy theories...tonite at 9

fucking get a grip

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 10, 2002, 6:54 pm

More likely scenario is about 20,000 velius era monk twinks who dont even realize that the change wont alter their turbo beat stick soloing all bombed the FOH site with spam, hate posts, and maybe worse.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 10, 2002, 7:04 pm

I heard they are just tired of EQ websites and are opening http://www.RateTheMangina.com Rumor also said that all warriors were now going to be unstunnable from the front after the patch.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 10, 2002, 7:10 pm

It's loading up a blank page. Looks like Stephen Seagal DOS attacked them.

I wouldn't be bothered particulary by any of these changes except for the Cheal adjustment. It doesn't make any sense to tune a spell called "complete heal" to not heal completely. I understand that the spell is way too powerful for a level 39 spell, and that it was put in during a time when level 50 and nagafen was the end game, and the majority of the game is balanced around the existence of it, and blah blah blah. Some things are just way too late in the game to just change though. The explanation they gave was pretty fucking weak even for a EQ Live-standard explanation.

They dug their own graves with manaburn. As soon as it was reported how much damage a manaburn did by the first wizard that got it, the implications were pretty fucking obvious. Manaburn personifies for me how unbalanced and poorly thought out the whole expansion was.

Monks have the only job in EQ that is mildly challenging outside the logistical aspects of organizing a raid. I didn't begrudge the fact they were a tad overpowered. I would have beefed up warrior defense before nerfing monk defense, simply because beefing up warrior defense would just mean you'd need one less cleric in cheal rotation. Whoopee. The entire notion of class balance is utterly senseless to me anyway.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 10, 2002, 7:21 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Rumor also said that all warriors were now going to be unstunnable from the front after the patch.

Well that's good news for Winni. There's no way that a mob with 1000X's the mass should be able to swat a gnome warlord across the zone! There wouldn't be much benefit for choosing an Ogre as a warrior except for the bonus ear wax.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 10, 2002, 8:00 pm

Hey i found some cheese!!! chomp.. bleh awful stuff..

-Ajran

Karae · Post by **Karae** » October 10, 2002, 10:08 pm

Akaran_D wrote: I'm thinking I can come up with a better flame than leyor sucks cock, for starters.

Akaran_D wrote: So Krae, now you know what the hell I'm thinking. And really? You shouldn't try to insult someone because they're doing somthing you can't. You know. Like thinking.

Doesn't look like it to me.

Akaran_D wrote: I'm thinking that by changing mod rods to ND yer going to have OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of mages crying foul over having to pray they don't lag and get tareting fucked when a cleric goes oom.

Maybe the morons will be. The intelligent mages will be happy that they finally have a chance to play their class instead of impersonating a vending machine.

Akaran_D wrote: I'm thinking that if the way they impliment the lowering of monk damage mitigation, there are going to be quite a few monks heavily pissed when FD fails.

Good. FD was never intended to be a pulling tool to begin with. Nor is FD necessary for ANY encounter in the game.

Akaran_D wrote: I'm thinking that VI will fuck up the tuning of current mobs to be either impossible to kill or so easy that every guild with 2 groups of 60 is going to be able to beat down ntov until it's fixed, which knowing the ammount of time it takes fo VI to you know.. fix somthing.. could be quite a awhile.

There is, of course, always the chance that VI will fuck it up. It doesn't change the fact that these changes are needed. I'm sure your guild still won't be able to clear NToV, though. But be glad you're a gimp, and still trying to finish up your SS quest armor, at least the CH nerf won't have any effect on you.

Akaran_D wrote: And personally? I didn't mind the MB on kunark dragons that much. I think by making it 1 MB a minute isn't going to do anything worthwhile, and almost mitigates the bonus of the skill.

It doesn't really matter when you mind or not. The simple fact is that 4-5 of any one class shouldn't be able to take out Gorenaire. 11 of that same class shouldn't be able to drop Sontalak. Manaburn was/is overpowered. A change was required. Be glad Verant is at least refunding the measly 5 points it takes to train.

If you could see past the end of your own nose and view the game objectively you'd understand why these changes are all of absolute necessity.

Joramile · Post by **Joramile** » October 10, 2002, 10:55 pm

The mod rod thing is the only one I object to. We all know they are gunna fuck up the retuneing....so maybe 30 seconds instead of 1 min...yeah...

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 11, 2002, 12:37 am

Maybe the morons will be. The intelligent mages will be happy that they finally have a chance to play their class instead of impersonating a vending machine.

Dunno, I can see mages being asked to target and summon rods during battle now, instead of stockpiling them before.

Which sucks even harder.

If the god rod is a problem, just take the damned thing outta the game or make it self-only.

VeeshanVault

Important Changes to EQ... Nerfs Inside!

Valgul

A mage

rods going wasted