Varia rox0rz teh ign mods!
Posted: July 5, 2002, 10:56 am
Varia, you rule.
For those of you who don't have access to the boards (read: are permabanned or havent bothered to grovel for an unban), let me quote a few:
Varia:
You admit mistakes were made. And you have said you will try to learn from them so you can avoid repeating them. Fair enough. Thats 2 out of three. But you have not yet offered an apology for them. Go for the hat-trick.
*Hugs*
Varia
PS- just stressing I said "apology", not retraction, my specific point being that a retraction is not compatible with your policy goals, but an apology IS. And I think one is due for the clumsy handling of the affair by Mepha, and to a lesser extent Tempus. It wont repair the damage done, but it would at least earn some respect, and that has value.
---
Varia:
Moony, I havent seen an apology from you but I havent been looking for one in your posts terribly hard either so I'll take your word for it. In any event its not you who really owes the apology- as I said its primarily Mepha who is the main culprit here for her apalling lack of finesse, and Tempus, her superior, whose robotic and incomplete posts did little to quell the storm, that owe the apologies here.
---
Varia:
I didnt see what Mepha got specificly, but strictly as a statement of general principle I have to say it is utter rubbish to say its not possible for a person to do something to deserve whatever level of nastiness they receive. Whether or not Mepha in particular did something to warrant it is a matter of opinion. I didnt see what was directed at her so I cant comment. However, if that abuse was directed at Hitler would you feel that he had earned it? Or Pol Pot? Or the latest serial killer? Extreme exampes to be sure, and I'm not comparing Mepha to any of the above, but it serves to demonstrate my point- It blatantly IS possible to deserve that level of nastiness and to reap what you sow. Perhaps Mepha didnt earn that response, but it IS possible to earn that response, and you earn no respect by showing such lack of awareness or possibly even willful blindness to that.
As a side point, there is a real person behind Sparty too, but that didnt slow Mepha down one bit. No "um, you gotta stop doing that or I'm gonna hafta shoot you", just straight to the nuclear weapons.
Akin to going into a privately owned woods to stop the kids playing paintball without the owners permission, firing a shotgun into the face of the first kid you see, and then complaining that people arent considering your feelings when they express disapproval. Unprofessional. Untalented. Unreasonable. Unsympathetic.
And Tempus wrote:
I never said 'personal' warnings were handed out to every person - nor were they.
The edits and warnings that Mepha issued were clearly seen by the people that were banned in the first wave, because the attacks and spam-profanity were a direct reaction to them.
That means you saw the warnings, and chose what to do with them. You intentionally posted stuff you knew was over the line - in reaction to those warnings.
So, does that mean you get ANOTHER warning when you're making it clear you saw the first one? Nah.
If the folks who said "Take your TOS and shove it....(insert profanity)" are claiming they didn't have a warning, then we need Homer Simpson to come with his immortal response to that kind of logic - DOH!
Folks who honestly didn't appear to know what was going on got some personal warnings. Folks who indicated by their actions that they had seen the edits/warnings, and were hell-bent on getting banned were oblidged.
If those folks are saying they 'weren't warned', well, I guess we each have our own opinion of who's being honest, don't we (shrug).
Oh, forgot one thing.
Remember in another thread where I said that there were certain immutable facts about the ToS.
If you make a direct, personal attack on a moderator, particularly to the degree that a lot of people here did, you will be insta-banned. So yup, I suppose those people didn't get warnings, nor will warnings EVER be handed out for things that cross the line that far.
---
Score one million ninehundred thousand points for Varia with this response:
---
Yes yes, youre a pillar of virtue, and you were only following orders. We got it. I'm sure that will be a great comfort for you if youre ever on the receiving end.
Yes, the wave of people who went "@%#$ the tos/you/horse you rode in on" etc did obviously know it would get a ban, and those bans were legit enough if that was the way you wanted to handle it. I think there were better ways, ways that would have acheived the desired effect while not grievously damaging the userbase in violation of your duty to your employer, but thats somewhat a seperate conversation, if indeed you CAN be conversed with at all.
The complaint is about how the new mods handled the FIRST few bannings, most notably "that guy who was always looking for his baseball". Banning him might have been technically legitimate perhaps, but being able to quote a rulebook doesnt excuse the mods from being a human being or from using their own discretion or common sense. It merely shows an officious, inhuman, priggish personality that is repellent to most people. Arnold J. Rimmer is not a popular person for a reason. The mods should chose a better role-model.
It was possible to have a curse-free board AND retain the bulk of the users, and if it was possible then it was your duty as mods to achieve it. But your skills so far have been found lacking, you have failed in your greatest responsibility, acheiving only the narrowest, meanest definition of your job instead of the grandest. Phyrric victories like that are a disservice to your employer and your customers alike. Shame on you.
Learn and do better next time.
Varia
Just this once, for you Varia:
*S*N*U*G*G*L*E*B*U*N*N*I*E*S*!*
For those of you who don't have access to the boards (read: are permabanned or havent bothered to grovel for an unban), let me quote a few:
Varia:
You admit mistakes were made. And you have said you will try to learn from them so you can avoid repeating them. Fair enough. Thats 2 out of three. But you have not yet offered an apology for them. Go for the hat-trick.
*Hugs*
Varia
PS- just stressing I said "apology", not retraction, my specific point being that a retraction is not compatible with your policy goals, but an apology IS. And I think one is due for the clumsy handling of the affair by Mepha, and to a lesser extent Tempus. It wont repair the damage done, but it would at least earn some respect, and that has value.
---
Varia:
Moony, I havent seen an apology from you but I havent been looking for one in your posts terribly hard either so I'll take your word for it. In any event its not you who really owes the apology- as I said its primarily Mepha who is the main culprit here for her apalling lack of finesse, and Tempus, her superior, whose robotic and incomplete posts did little to quell the storm, that owe the apologies here.
---
Varia:
I didnt see what Mepha got specificly, but strictly as a statement of general principle I have to say it is utter rubbish to say its not possible for a person to do something to deserve whatever level of nastiness they receive. Whether or not Mepha in particular did something to warrant it is a matter of opinion. I didnt see what was directed at her so I cant comment. However, if that abuse was directed at Hitler would you feel that he had earned it? Or Pol Pot? Or the latest serial killer? Extreme exampes to be sure, and I'm not comparing Mepha to any of the above, but it serves to demonstrate my point- It blatantly IS possible to deserve that level of nastiness and to reap what you sow. Perhaps Mepha didnt earn that response, but it IS possible to earn that response, and you earn no respect by showing such lack of awareness or possibly even willful blindness to that.
As a side point, there is a real person behind Sparty too, but that didnt slow Mepha down one bit. No "um, you gotta stop doing that or I'm gonna hafta shoot you", just straight to the nuclear weapons.
Akin to going into a privately owned woods to stop the kids playing paintball without the owners permission, firing a shotgun into the face of the first kid you see, and then complaining that people arent considering your feelings when they express disapproval. Unprofessional. Untalented. Unreasonable. Unsympathetic.
And Tempus wrote:
I never said 'personal' warnings were handed out to every person - nor were they.
The edits and warnings that Mepha issued were clearly seen by the people that were banned in the first wave, because the attacks and spam-profanity were a direct reaction to them.
That means you saw the warnings, and chose what to do with them. You intentionally posted stuff you knew was over the line - in reaction to those warnings.
So, does that mean you get ANOTHER warning when you're making it clear you saw the first one? Nah.
If the folks who said "Take your TOS and shove it....(insert profanity)" are claiming they didn't have a warning, then we need Homer Simpson to come with his immortal response to that kind of logic - DOH!
Folks who honestly didn't appear to know what was going on got some personal warnings. Folks who indicated by their actions that they had seen the edits/warnings, and were hell-bent on getting banned were oblidged.
If those folks are saying they 'weren't warned', well, I guess we each have our own opinion of who's being honest, don't we (shrug).
Oh, forgot one thing.
Remember in another thread where I said that there were certain immutable facts about the ToS.
If you make a direct, personal attack on a moderator, particularly to the degree that a lot of people here did, you will be insta-banned. So yup, I suppose those people didn't get warnings, nor will warnings EVER be handed out for things that cross the line that far.
---
Score one million ninehundred thousand points for Varia with this response:
---
Yes yes, youre a pillar of virtue, and you were only following orders. We got it. I'm sure that will be a great comfort for you if youre ever on the receiving end.
Yes, the wave of people who went "@%#$ the tos/you/horse you rode in on" etc did obviously know it would get a ban, and those bans were legit enough if that was the way you wanted to handle it. I think there were better ways, ways that would have acheived the desired effect while not grievously damaging the userbase in violation of your duty to your employer, but thats somewhat a seperate conversation, if indeed you CAN be conversed with at all.
The complaint is about how the new mods handled the FIRST few bannings, most notably "that guy who was always looking for his baseball". Banning him might have been technically legitimate perhaps, but being able to quote a rulebook doesnt excuse the mods from being a human being or from using their own discretion or common sense. It merely shows an officious, inhuman, priggish personality that is repellent to most people. Arnold J. Rimmer is not a popular person for a reason. The mods should chose a better role-model.
It was possible to have a curse-free board AND retain the bulk of the users, and if it was possible then it was your duty as mods to achieve it. But your skills so far have been found lacking, you have failed in your greatest responsibility, acheiving only the narrowest, meanest definition of your job instead of the grandest. Phyrric victories like that are a disservice to your employer and your customers alike. Shame on you.
Learn and do better next time.
Varia
Just this once, for you Varia:
*S*N*U*G*G*L*E*B*U*N*N*I*E*S*!*
