VeeshanVault

Mplor wrote:Please, whatever you buy, keep it muffled. I never will understand the desire to piss off everyone you ride near with your bike's flatulence.

On some level, I know that some weirdos think that shit is manly, but it completely eludes me.

Siji wrote:It's not a matter of being manly, well, for most people.. it's a matter of making sure that people in their cages can hear you since they're too busy talking on their cell phones to bother paying attention to a bike riding in the lane next to them when they change over without a blinker or any warning.

As the saying goes, loud pipes save lives. The first thing I do everytime I've gotten a new motorcycle is to change the pipes. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been able to avoid some car coming into my lane by revving the bike up the moment I notice them moving over. They hear me and get freaked out and get the fuck back in their lane. Especially the old q-tips that live here in Florida.

Durew wrote:On a side note, the author of this hates crotch rockets but I might be in the market for one; if anyone has some suggestions or comments about brands/models I'm all ears! I'm green when it comes to this stuff so all the info I can get is good

Aslanna wrote: Sorry, not buying it. There are some seriously loud bikes out there and I doubt they did it for safety sake. And everytime one of them rumbles past my apartment I secretly wish that would explode and spread their parts everywhere. Does that make me a bad person?

Same for those assclowns who rev the piss out of the crotch rockets from one stop light to the next. They may be doing it to alert those within a 15 block radius of their presence but it has nothing to do with personal safety. Everytime I hear them I wish they would go careening into a wall at high speed and die a painful death. Maybe that does make me a bad person!

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:

Aslanna wrote: Sorry, not buying it. There are some seriously loud bikes out there and I doubt they did it for safety sake. And everytime one of them rumbles past my apartment I secretly wish that would explode and spread their parts everywhere. Does that make me a bad person?

Same for those assclowns who rev the piss out of the crotch rockets from one stop light to the next. They may be doing it to alert those within a 15 block radius of their presence but it has nothing to do with personal safety. Everytime I hear them I wish they would go careening into a wall at high speed and die a painful death. Maybe that does make me a bad person!

You don't have to buy it. I can tell you flat out that most people put loud pipes on because of people in their cars. There is no mistake about having a harley with vance and hines on it sitting in the next lane. It sure beats laying on the weak ass horn every 5 minutes. I would rather annoy you than get smoked by a moron in an SUV.

BTW, a good friend of mine just bought that exact Honda 1300 a month ago. It is vary nice. hard to get him to get off of it long enough to play golf. It does need a different set of pipes. I think he is putting s et of Cobras on it....just to piss people off.

Siji wrote:

Durew wrote:On a side note, the author of this hates crotch rockets but I might be in the market for one; if anyone has some suggestions or comments about brands/models I'm all ears! I'm green when it comes to this stuff so all the info I can get is good

Avoid all things Suzuki. Period. Get a Honda or a Yamaha. If you can find a Honda CBR1100XX in good shape for a good price, grab it. There's people (several) that are over 100k miles on those with no major engine work done. Try to find a Suzuki Hayabusa owner with over 20-30k that hasn't already been in the shop with major repairs. They're very rare. The CBR1100XX is a sport touring bike, so it's sporty and comfy. I love mine, and that's coming from an ElectraGlide (H-D's big cruiser).

Aslanna wrote:Yes, because I can see the big safety hazard down the downtown streets marked 15MPH that they need to rev the fuck out of them.

Aslanna wrote:Especially while sitting at the stoplight. Dont want anyone running into them!

Aslanna wrote:Having it loud is one thing. Intentionally making as much noise as possible just because you have a small penis is another.

You'd likely be shocked at the number of bikes that get rear ended at traffic lights/stop signs. One of the things they teach you in safety courses is to never sit at the light in neutral, always be ready to move. They do that for a reason.

This is completely irrelevant to the point being made about loud pipes and safety. Explain to me, for example, the necessity in having a stereo system in a car that can be heard a mile away? Any and every single argument that you can and will make about motorcycles and noise, I can make about cars and noise. There are a lot more kids with annoying booming crap coming out of their cars than there is kids on loud bikes. The difference is that, whether the reason they've got loud pipes is for safety or not, there is no reason for having a stereo that loud.

You'd likely be shocked at the number of bikes that get rear ended at traffic lights/stop signs. One of the things they teach you in safety courses is to never sit at the light in neutral, always be ready to move. They do that for a reason.

Aslanna wrote:
Having it loud is one thing. Intentionally making as much noise as possible just because you have a small penis is another.

Again, that has nothing to do with motorcycles. That has to do with idiot people and applies to anything.

Until you've nearly been hit by a car, repeatedly, that wasn't looking, and gotten their attention with a loud sound coming from your motorcycle pipes, you simply won't understand. Sorry if you don't like the sound of a motorcycle. I don't like the sound of your car stereo.

"Loud Pipes Save Lives"
or
The Madness Behind the Myth
By Jeffry L’H. Tank


I had originally planed on continuing with the series I was doing on the history of the motorcycle for this month's article until a neighbor of mine came home last weekend with a brand new bike. Practically before he had gotten off he informed me that one of the first things he was going to do was get a set of louder pipes, as this would help to ensure his safety by being heard from a greater distance. Safety??! Hogwash! Balderdash! Bull cookies! Well that set me off, and I proceeded to make an attempt to dissuade him from this (in my opinion) erroneous view that "Loud Pipes Save Lives". I don't think I got very far in my first attempt, though, he seemed pretty adamant in his view.

So I decided that perhaps the best approach would be to do some digging and see what I could find in the way of supporting facts, both pro and con. Perhaps I was wrong and they really do save lives, seemed doubtful, but I've always considered myself as someone who is willing to keep an open mind until the facts are in. In doing my research on the subject I found many opinions but very little in the way of hard facts on the issue of "do loud pipes save lives?" In the end I could not find a single "fact" that supports the idea, but I did find a number of opinions to support it, opinions that were, as far as I could see, weakly masqueraded as "facts". To be fair, neither could I find any facts in support of the idea they don't. What I did find was numerous reasons why (overly) loud pipes can be detrimental to motorcycling as a whole. Here's a synopsis of what I found.

Supporters of the idea seemed to consist for the most part of folks that either sold (loud) aftermarket pipes, or folks who road bikes with loud(er) aftermarket pipes. Yet these same folks could not provide any hard facts to back up their claim, the best they could come up with were rather vague statements about how if they make lots of noise "(car drivers) are sure as heck gonna hear me!" or claims that loud pipes give the other motorists ample warning of the approaching biker as they cruise up from behind. These statements seem to presuppose several assumptions that; 1) the other driver is not only going to hear the biker, but take the time to identify their actual location, 2) drivers in general rely on sound as much as vision to locate and avoid obstacles (in this case the motorcyclist), 3) the other driver gives enough of a damn about motorcyclists in the first place to do (1) and (2) above, and 4) that sounds emanating from a motorcycle's exhaust travel equally in all directions from the source. These seem, to me, to be a rather risky set of suppositions with little, if any, basis in fact. It is well documented that vision plays a much bigger role in operator safety than sound. Think about the last time you heard a siren, were you able to identify the location of the approaching vehicle by the sound alone or did you not in fact have to wait to make visual contact with it before you could precisely identify its location relative to you? Do proponents of loud pipes really believe that other motorists are going to concentrate on locating the approaching motorcycle and keep it in view till it is well past them and out of harms way? Where is the evidence to support such a claim?

An article in the Concord Monitor (Sunday, October, 2002, by Sarah M. Earle) quotes one mechanic at a local Concord bike shop as stating that the other driver cut off 80% of his customers who had been involved in an accident. Sounds reasonable and that is indeed what the Hurt report found in it's study. Unfortunately he then goes on to state that this justifies his customers modifying their exhaust (to something louder) to ensure that they will be noticed in the future. He further states that changing out the exhaust is done purely for safety reasons. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that, nor do I really believe he does either. That sounds too much like an attempt to justify something that's done for entirely different reasons, i.e. they just like the louder sound.

On the other hand The American Motorcyclist Association, The Hurt Report, and many riders and bikers themselves seemed to be of the opposite opinion. The AMA has gone so far as to make a policy statement on the issue which reads " The [AMA] believes that few other factors contribute more to misunderstanding and prejudice against the motorcycling community than excessively noisy motorcycles". They then go on to say, "Shifting blame and failing to adopt responsible policies on a voluntary basis can only result in greater prejudice and discrimination against motorcycling. The consequences of continuing to ignore this issue will likely result in excessively rigorous state and federal standards, ……[and] abusive enforcement of current laws and other solutions undesirable to riders and the motorcycle industry"

What this shows is that there is a bigger issue at hand, namely, the noise issue, and it's impact on all of us who ride. And sadly too, their prediction has come true in many cases, I found several articles within just the first hour of researching this issue, on jurisdictions that have enacted noise related ordinances directed against motorcycles while other vehicles remained less regulated. Several sources noted events from the last Sturgis rally, an event noted for it's tolerance and even open acceptance of the biker crowd. It seems the state and local authorities really cracked down on violators, more so than in previous years and the biggest offence cited and fined was for excessive exhaust noise. As one writer put it, it must have been just like shooting fish in a barrel (for the police).

I have to wonder how many others, like myself, really enjoy hearing those cars with the mega-bass audio systems turned up so loud that our stomachs churn or the sound of trash trucks emptying the dumpster at 6 in the morning? Noise pollution effects everyone. Saying "I'm just doing my thing" just doesn't cut it, not when "doing your thing" violates others right to peace and quiet, there is no right to make excessive noise! And what about the image that excessively loud motorcycles project? When the actions of others have a negative impact on my rights to enjoy motorcycling, that gets my goat up and it should get yours up too.

According to the Hurt report is was determined that 77% of motorcycle accident hazards come from in front of the rider, while only 3% approach from the rear. What's interesting here is that motorcycle pipes direct the vast majority of sound backwards where the least danger is, so for loud pipes to be truly effective safety measures they would need to be pointed forward where the greatest danger lies. That doesn't do much to support the proposition that loud pipes are a safely factor. The other serious problem I have with this supposition is that it is, at best, a secondary safety measure, not a primary or proactive measure. Assuming that the other driver will act with caution once you have identified your presence by the sound of your bike roaring up from behind is foolhardy at best. That's like assuming that if you were to wear a bright yellow safety vest, or full riding gear, you can relax because now you're protected! Lets face it, the best protection you have is that 3 pounds of grey matter between your ears, that and a constant awareness of your surrounding, and acting on the supposition that the rest of the motorists in the world are all idiots and its up to you and you alone to ensure your safety on the road. Relying on the other guy to act reasonably or safely just because you're making more noise than those around you is just asking for trouble!

As Neal Stephenson puts it in 'Zodiac' (The words in brackets [ ] were added by me.):

" First, a word on motorcycle safety:
If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see [hear] you in order for you to be safe -- to see [hear] you, and to give a f**k -- you've already blown it."

Interestingly enough too, I found that most motorcyclists with louder than stock pipes, interviewed in the various articles I read on the subject admitted that is was mostly a macho thing. They simply liked the sound of a deep-throated exhaust note, it added to the pleasure of the machine for them, very few made any mention of the "safety" issue. So it would seem the true believers in the LPSL crowd are in the vast minority, it may make a great tee shirt slogan, but is ability to hold water is about equal to that of the tee shirt it's printed on.

Ok, so back to my neighbor and his desire for loud pipes for "safety" reasons. If he wants louder pipes on his machine, more power to him, it's his bike, and I firmly believe in the principal "It's your bike, do what you want". As long as it's not an ear splitting, glass shattering roar, and he doesn't fire it up at 3AM and blast me out of bed, fine, have fun with it. He's young, it's his first bike and he's caught up in all that goes with that first chrome and steel love affair. And No, I don't think there's anything wrong with a nice set of well-tuned pipes, they can add that little something extra to a machine and will undoubtedly catch the occasional eye (or ear) as you go tooling down the roadway. But let's not kid ourselves that its anything other than an ego thing, plain and simple. Just be honest about it and quit trying to justify it.

Just do it within reason, remember the image you portray is a reflection on all of us, like it or not, and really loud pipes probably do more damage than good and annoying folks accomplishes nothing. Now you may be thinking I have something personal against loud pipes, well let me disabuse you of that notion right here and now. I too happen to like a nice throaty exhaust note as evidenced by my little R600. Several years ago I put a 2-into-1 megaphone style exhaust on her as part of the process of setting her up for running the back roads and mountain passes. I love to "play" with the resonance it produces zipping though the twisties, and I admit that I did it 90% just for the way it enhances the machine's appearance and the way it sounds. The reduced weight and extra cornering clearance is just an added bonus, but I did it mostly for the sound, and looks, and I readily admit it. Its just plain cool! What its not however is loud to the point of annoying my neighbors or shattering glass, just a nice mellow note that sets it apart from other old bikes.

Sure, it can also be done to increase horsepower, but for many that too is probably just a "justification" and not the real reason. Modern bikes have more than enough power as they come from the factory for almost any rider or riding conditions, some even more than reasonably needed (but that's just my opinion). Keep in mind, too, that they are designed to run with the specific backpressure created by the stock exhaust. Changing anything with the motor should only be done by someone who knows what they are doing, or you could easily wind up with all sort of problems, such as less power and possible overheating problems, to name a few, and that's not an opinion, that's just plan fact. But as for the safety factor, forget it Mac, I ain't buying that. If my neighbor (or anyone else) wants to talk safety features, I can think of many, many ways that money could be better spent on serious, proven, safely features.

So if you want loud(er) pipes, go ahead put them on, give 'em nice high polish shine and give that throttle a twist and revel in the sound of that deep, throaty rumble, just don't try to tell me you're doing it because "Loud Pipes Save Lives" 'cause dude, now I know better!


Jeffry L'H. Tank

Aslanna wrote:Just out of curiosity, how many times have you been nearly hitten by a car where you've gotten their attention was a loud sound coming from your motorcycle pipes? (Especially considering most of the sound is directed backwards).

Aslanna wrote:I went researching the 'Do Loud Pipes Save Lives' issue and found numerous articles but no real scientific study showing that they do (or don't) however.

Kelshara wrote:If they ban bike pipes I sure as hell hope they ban car stereos, ricers, V8s, tires (can do burnouts after all!) etc.

Slinn wrote:
Oh and btw winnow, no one was justifing the noise of a bike in comparsion to the loudness of a stereo system. Reading 101 might help u out just a little bit. I would recommend going back through kindergarten one more time and you might get the basic idea that it is a comparsion.

Winnow wrote:I like motorcycle riders. They have no right of way at all on those puny things. I cut them off on purpose. Especially those lamers driving inbetween lanes. I can imagine bikers are similar to road kill to clean up after.

Winnow wrote:motorcycle in heavy traffic. The chances of you being in a fatal accident or severe injury accident are much higher. It doesn't matter if you're the safest rider out there, you can't control other drivers and it's retarded to be riding a bike.

Winnow wrote:It's your own risk and I'm happy to make it harder for you. Save me your motorcycle accident horror stories. Keep your motorcycles on the back country roads for scenic rides and biker get togethers.

Siji wrote:

Winnow wrote:I like motorcycle riders. They have no right of way at all on those puny things. I cut them off on purpose. Especially those lamers driving inbetween lanes. I can imagine bikers are similar to road kill to clean up after.

I can only assume you're talking out your ass again. Because if you really do intentionally endanger the lives of other people just because they're on a motorcycle, then you're really not even worth responding to.

Winnow wrote:motorcycle in heavy traffic. The chances of you being in a fatal accident or severe injury accident are much higher. It doesn't matter if you're the safest rider out there, you can't control other drivers and it's retarded to be riding a bike.

So I guess we're all retarded for walking out our door since we can't control other people and their inclinations of robbing, murdering and raping others. Your statements are really about the most moronic things I've ever seen here, short of Midnytes postings.. and that's close.

Winnow wrote:It's your own risk and I'm happy to make it harder for you. Save me your motorcycle accident horror stories. Keep your motorcycles on the back country roads for scenic rides and biker get togethers.

Right.. because it's your road and yours alone. You remind me of the stupid fuck that thought he owned the road, ran me off of it when he wasn't looking, and then got his car door window smashed in with a helmet at the next traffic light. Funny how the apologies begin to flow when an ass isn't protected by their big bad car.

Fyndina wrote:Much easier to carry a gun on the bike. Nice and big! Carry laws of Texas for the win!

"But officer Winnow was trying to kill me, it was self defense"
"oh ok. Carry on. We'll clean up his brain"