Gas prices rise another 2.5 cents per gallon

valryte · Post by **valryte** » April 12, 2004, 11:49 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4716778/

WTF, where's that free oil from Iraq!!!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 12, 2004, 11:55 am

Was reading some article somewhere yesterday that had a survey of people that basically resulted in them saying that they didn't really care about the gas prices, they'd still buy another SUV and that SUV sales were up like 18%.

Idiots.

I'm hoping for $5.00 + a gallon by summer. Maybe they'll care then.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » April 12, 2004, 12:21 pm

My wife has to drive for a living as a home care nurse. Luckily her car gets 30+ miles to the gallon. Once it warms up a bit more I will be driving my motorcycle everywhere. One or two fills a year is great.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » April 12, 2004, 12:55 pm

Bah! Stop complaining: you guys still have the cheapest gasoline in the Western World!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 12, 2004, 2:09 pm

Yeah it might be cheap comared to other countries, but it's really killing many of us who don't make a lot of money.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 12, 2004, 2:38 pm

the problem isnt the price of crude oil.

the problem is the demand for gasoline here in the US. As the poster above mentioned, people continue to buy SUVs and other high-consumption vehichles, which increases demand for gasoline at the pump, which raises the market price.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » April 12, 2004, 2:55 pm

Yeah it might be cheap comared to other countries, but it's really killing many of us who don't make a lot of money.

Sorry, no sympathy here. In my part of Canada our gas prices run about $2.60 US a gallon ( $0.77 Cdn per litre). Our cities are as, if not more spread out that you guys are. If gas prices are high enough as to affect your standard of living you can do things like get a more fuel efficient vehicle, use public transport, car pool, etc. It can also mean bike or walk to the convenience store instead of drive, to get that pack of smokes, Coke, or lottery tickets.

The problem as far as demand goes is the same on both sides of the US-Canada border, and while we pay more for gas (and that is taxes from various levels of gov't not margin), our problems mirror yours... and they are controllable to some degree.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 12, 2004, 3:10 pm

I'm definitely not complaining Wulf.. personally I'd have no problem with luxury tax being applied to gasoline just like cigarettes for example. Put a $2.00 a gallon luxury tax on it, apply it to something useful like education or the social security system that's going bankrupt.

Of course, that wouldn't happen. It'd go straight to defense or raises for polititians or something. But still, it might get some people to quit driving their 2 ton tonka truck up to 7-11 around the block and back using 10 gallons in the process.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » April 12, 2004, 3:21 pm

I wouldn't mind paying more for gas if there was a shortage or it was taxed for something worthwhile. But, instead, we are being gouged. They claim demand, or possible shortages (in spite of our huge reserves) or a million other reasons for the gas prices, most imagined.

As Siji said, add a big tax to it and throw it back in to the schools or bail out a social program or something. But, in turn, lower the actual cost of the gas. I'll pay $3.50+ a gallon, so long as $2.00 of it is being spend in a worthwhile arena.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 12, 2004, 3:29 pm

Siji wrote:I'm definitely not complaining Wulf.. personally I'd have no problem with luxury tax being applied to gasoline just like cigarettes for example. Put a $2.00 a gallon luxury tax on it, apply it to something useful like education or the social security system that's going bankrupt.

Of course, that wouldn't happen. It'd go straight to defense or raises for polititians or something. But still, it might get some people to quit driving their 2 ton tonka truck up to 7-11 around the block and back using 10 gallons in the process.

Gas isn't really considered a luxury for most people. While something like that would (maybe) get the irresponsible to be a little more responsible in their usage, it would hurt a lot of low income families who already are responsible with how they use it. Not everyone can walk to work or live in an area with public transportation readily available.

Then again, we see how much money the various lotteries have thrown back into education so hey.. Why not!

Asheran Mojomaster · Post by **Asheran Mojomaster** » April 12, 2004, 10:16 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Siji wrote:I'm definitely not complaining Wulf.. personally I'd have no problem with luxury tax being applied to gasoline just like cigarettes for example. Put a $2.00 a gallon luxury tax on it, apply it to something useful like education or the social security system that's going bankrupt.

Of course, that wouldn't happen. It'd go straight to defense or raises for polititians or something. But still, it might get some people to quit driving their 2 ton tonka truck up to 7-11 around the block and back using 10 gallons in the process.
Gas isn't really considered a luxury for most people. While something like that would (maybe) get the irresponsible to be a little more responsible in their usage, it would hurt a lot of low income families who already are responsible with how they use it. Not everyone can walk to work or live in an area with public transportation readily available.

Then again, we see how much money the various lotteries have thrown back into education so hey.. Why not!

Yeah, my step-dad has to drive like 70 miles to work EVERY DAY, he can't bike that, there is no public transportation around here, especially not that far, and hes the only person around our area that works there so no carpool.

The prices for gas wouldnt be a really big deal to us, because last year, working the same job, he was making around $25,000 more a year...but they cut down on contractors and now he is stuck in the same job for less pay as he is actually working for the company and we are barely making it as is.

If the gas prices keep going up, we are screwed, as my mom cant find a job, and neither can I (thx North Alabama, no fucking jobs anywhere around here, except shit that pays like min wage and you have to be 18+ for, so thats kinda pointless for my mom, and I cant get a job in those places because I'm still 16).

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » April 12, 2004, 11:17 pm

No offense Ash, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts it's a choice not to just move closer to work...

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » April 12, 2004, 11:18 pm

Lets hope it keeps going up so people may start giving a shit about alternate fuel technologies.

/hide

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 12, 2004, 11:27 pm

Kerry was talking about tapping into the "emergency reserves" we just need to take over mexico and start producing it ourselves.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 12, 2004, 11:50 pm

Not everyone can afford to move closer. But 70 miles (assuming that's one way) seems a bit far. A big reason a lot of people have large commutes is because it costs way too much to live where the jobs are.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 13, 2004, 12:20 am

Aslanna wrote:Not everyone can afford to move closer. But 70 miles (assuming that's one way) seems a bit far. A big reason a lot of people have large commutes is because it costs way too much to live where the jobs are.

I will be starting a new job next week that will require me to commute 5 days a week 80 miles away.

I am sickened by how much I will be spending in gas every week. I also dread the 90 min drive both ways each day. But, I make that sacrifice for my children. My son goes to school where I am now. My entire family lives within 5 minutes from me. I want to give them this stability. I will take the hit, and so will my wallet....ugh.

Asheran Mojomaster · Post by **Asheran Mojomaster** » April 13, 2004, 2:14 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Not everyone can afford to move closer. But 70 miles (assuming that's one way) seems a bit far. A big reason a lot of people have large commutes is because it costs way too much to live where the jobs are.
I will be starting a new job next week that will require me to commute 5 days a week 80 miles away.

I am sickened by how much I will be spending in gas every week. I also dread the 90 min drive both ways each day. But, I make that sacrifice for my children. My son goes to school where I am now. My entire family lives within 5 minutes from me. I want to give them this stability. I will take the hit, and so will my wallet....ugh.

This is the same reason my step-dad does this, cause while this job BARELY pays for everything we need, its better than most jobs around here. If it was possible for him to find a job closer, he would do it in a heartbeat, but its just not. Any job avaiable around here pays quite a bit less than the one he currently has, or if it pays even close to the same amount, it doesnt have half the benefits (he has full insurance on everything, plus retirement, ect).

Good thing is, there may be a new giant Honda plant opening here soon, and if he is quick enough, he might be able to get a similiar job there and only have to drive like 20 mins to work.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » April 13, 2004, 2:32 am

I'm seriously, seriously, considering switching to a motorcycle for gas and insurance reasons alone.

Estrosiath · Post by **Estrosiath** » April 13, 2004, 3:04 am

I'm quite sorry for you Ash, but let's put it this way. The blame is on your administrations. They had a woefully short-sighted view of things ( I would add an "as always" here

). Instead of developping alternative means of transportation ( like, trains, or the subway, or buses ), they instead chose to simply rely on the price of oil. Well, you'd think after the two oil shocks in the 70s they'd understand and start building more of that stuff? But no. They didn't. Probably due to the oil and automobile lobbies, I'll grant you that. But the fact remains a huge part of the US economy is extremely reliant on cheap oil. And this is not a constant.
It is also probably due to the huge size of the country, of course. My point still stands though - there are simply very few, if any, towns or hamlets in Europe that do not have at least a twice a day means to get to the closest city. Train or bus. From what I've been told, the train system in the US is also very badly run - but again, this is a consequence of the whole "One person=One car" thing, built on the fact that oil is so cheap you can afford to go at it this way.
It's also a consequence of going towards economic liberalism at full speed. It did bring incredible economic growth to the US, it's true. But many less lucrative ventures where never undertaken - and since the role of the government is reduced to a bare minimum, no one was there to build trains or buses for small, faraway towns.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 13, 2004, 3:20 am

Truant wrote:I'm seriously, seriously, considering switching to a motorcycle for gas and insurance reasons alone.

Isn't motorcycle insurance like way higher down there? I had a bike a few years ago and the liability insurace made my toes hurt.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » April 13, 2004, 6:03 am

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Not everyone can afford to move closer. But 70 miles (assuming that's one way) seems a bit far. A big reason a lot of people have large commutes is because it costs way too much to live where the jobs are.
I will be starting a new job next week that will require me to commute 5 days a week 80 miles away.

I am sickened by how much I will be spending in gas every week. I also dread the 90 min drive both ways each day. But, I make that sacrifice for my children. My son goes to school where I am now. My entire family lives within 5 minutes from me. I want to give them this stability. I will take the hit, and so will my wallet....ugh.
This is the same reason my step-dad does this, cause while this job BARELY pays for everything we need, its better than most jobs around here. If it was possible for him to find a job closer, he would do it in a heartbeat, but its just not. Any job avaiable around here pays quite a bit less than the one he currently has, or if it pays even close to the same amount, it doesnt have half the benefits (he has full insurance on everything, plus retirement, ect).

Good thing is, there may be a new giant Honda plant opening here soon, and if he is quick enough, he might be able to get a similiar job there and only have to drive like 20 mins to work.

Right well.. that's pretty much what I said, it's a "choice" to keep you in your school, etc, etc. I'll grant you that there probably always needs to be something of a commute because the good jobs are always away from the cheap housing.. but 70+ mins is a choice of sorts.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 13, 2004, 11:29 am

even if you walk to work, the gas prices will effect your bottom line. Almost all goods make their way to market via trucking, and the increased cost of operation of trucks as well as airplanes, will increase the prices of pretty much everything. It may not be perceptible on an item-by-item basis, but depending on the size of your family, and the length of time that these prices are elevated, you will see a real dollar effect. whether or not that is significant to you based on your income, is another matter entirely.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » April 13, 2004, 12:29 pm

First, gas still isn't at a historical high in real dollar terms (that was roughly 2.99 a gallon back in 1981). In addition, the gas that we use currently is not equivalent to the gas that was used back then. It currently is formulated to meet regulations to be cleaner.

For the main drivers of the current spike in prices ...

http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/000748.html

1. High world crude oil prices. These prices are partly the consequence of conscious OPEC supply constriction to raise price. OPEC’s ability to do so is typically constrained by three interrelated factors: the world demand for oil, cheating on the part of smaller OPEC members, and production from non-OPEC countries like Russia, Norway and Mexico. Economic growth, particularly in Asia, is shifting out the demand for oil according to this Ft. Worth Star-Telegram article:

Strong demand for oil in Asia is one reason for higher crude prices in recent months, although analysts also said that aggressive bets by large commodity speculators have contributed to the recent run-up in oil markets. Much of the attention on Asian oil supplies is related to the fast-growing economies of China and India.

Sales of diesel fuel in India, which account for about 40 percent of the oil sold in that country, soared 10 percent in February from the same month a year earlier; automobile sales in India grew 31 percent in the last year. India's oil imports are forecast to continue to climb as its economy grows 8 percent this year.

This Investor’s Business Daily article points to the other two aspects of this dynamic: Saudi Arabia is still the “swing producer” because of the scale of its reserves relative to other producers, and some OPEC members have not curtailed production to meet the targets OPEC set in their 1 February meeting. Saudi Arabia’s production is the primary determininant of the world price, and with rising demand the growth in production in Russia and in Iraq has not been sufficient to change that fact. And small OPEC producers are riding the crest of this high price, not restricting their output.

No current discussion of OPEC is complete without reference to the horrendous state of affairs in Venezuela. Their low production adds substantially to the high prices we are currently experiencing.

OPEC is currently discussing whether or not to continue its output restrictions at the end of the month, and today’s news suggests that they are fighting internal battles over whether to pursue output restrictions when their benchmark price is $4 above the high end of their usual benchmark range.

2. Existing environmental regulations making supply more inelastic. Petroleum refiners in the US must meet the EPA’s federal fuel oxygenate requirement from Title II of the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990, which mandates a 2% oxygen content in fuel in ozone non-attainment urban areas. Furthermore, refiners are required to drain all of the winter fuel from their tanks before replacing it with summer fuel, which in most markets must have inventory built up to start sales on 1 April. On top of that, states can choose to implement their own fuel formulation requirements to address their specific geographic and climatologic conditions that lead to different local air quality conditions. As a result, the US now has over 40 fuel formulation requirements at different times and places.

Think about what this does physically and economically. People continue driving in March, and continue to use winter-blend fuel while the inventory of winter-blend fuel falls, ideally to zero at midnight on 31 March. Inventory storage costs are very high for petroleum, so keeping a buffer of winter fuel through March and over the summer is very expensive (this point is in response to a question from Virginia Postrel on storage). Not only do people generally not want new refineries built near them, they also do not want new tank farms built near them. So storage capacity is a binding constraint.

So of course the seasonal fragmentation that the oxygenate requirement introduces into fuel supply would cause prices to rise in March, all other things equal. This temporal fragmentation exacerbates the balkanization of fuel markets, because of the 40+ fuel formulations in effect. Note especially that this fragmentation across both time and place makes the supply of gasoline more inelastic. Confront that with an inelastic demand for gasoline, and one that shifts out and becomes more inelastic in the spring and summer months, and you have a policy-driven exacerbation of the potential for price spikes.

The California prices are also driven by the switch from MTBE as fuel oxygenate to ethanol, a switch that is taking full effect for the first time in 2004. Ethanol, a corn-based additive, is not produced in California, cannot be shipped from the Midwest to California in oil pipelines, and is highly water soluble, so it can only be added to the fuel at the rack (basically, right before it ships out to gas stations). And Senator Boxer wonders why the price of gasoline in California has gone up to $2.18/gallon? I suggest that she review Title II, Section 211 of the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. You can also read my testimony to a Congressional hearing on the MTBE/ethanol transition in California from July 2003 for more background.

3. New air quality regulations taking effect in 2004. The EPA’s Tier 2 sulfur control regulations, leading to the co-development of low-sulfur fuels and vehicles optimized to the use of low-sulfur fuel, took effect in January 2004. This program to reduce sulfur content in fuel will be phased in over three years, and 2004 is the first year in which refiners will be required to meet overall sulfur content regulations, according to this EPA fact sheet on the Tier 2 regulations:

Beginning in 2004, the nation’s refiners and importers of gasoline will have the flexibility to manufacture gasoline with a range of sulfur levels as long as all of their production is capped at 300 parts per million (ppm) and their annual corporate average sulfur levels are 120 ppm.

More information on the regulations is available at the EPA OTAG Tier 2 website. The Tier 2 regulations can be found in the Federal Register from 2000.

These new regulations, while likely to deliver improvements in air quality, are going to increase gas prices, at least in the short run. Refiners are having to engage in research, in reconfiguration of their production processes, and in equipment installation to meet the new low-sulfur requirements. For example, Valero is building a new desulfurization unit in one of its Louisiana refineries, precisely to aid compliance with the Tier 2 sulfur regulations.

These factors have combined to raise the current, and expected future, prices of gasoline. The new low-sulfur requirements are not likely to exacerbate the seasonality/inelasticity problem, but they will increase fuel prices.

Follow the link to the original and you can follow the links referred to in the post. Lynne Kiesling has many other posts about gas prices at http://www.knowledgeproblem.com, all well worth reading.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 13, 2004, 1:48 pm

Truant wrote:I'm seriously, seriously, considering switching to a motorcycle for gas and insurance reasons alone.

Check into insurance before making that decision. A friend was quoted over 5 grand a year for a 900cc.. dunno what caused that (likely age as his record was clean) but I pay around $600 a year presently. State Farm and Progressive (from what I've heard about Progressive) are good ones to check. I've got it with SF and it's reasonable for all the motorcycles I've had through them. I will tell you now though that when I had my Harley's the insurance was lower than when I got my sport bike. And it's not by engine CC's since my last Harley was a 1450 and my current sportbike is a 1100.. A cruiser is going to be lower on insurance but more expensive (usually) than a sportbike to buy.

If you're just looking for an inexpensive way to get to/from work buy a 750 or something small. Make sure it's got at least a 5 gallon gas tank. Some bikes are ~3 gallons (H-D Sportsters for example) and while still great on gas, just means filling up more often.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 13, 2004, 2:20 pm

Chmee wrote:First, gas still isn't at a historical high in real dollar terms (that was roughly 2.99 a gallon back in 1981).

yeah great, that was also during an oil embargo and there was 2 mile long lineups at gas stations to put 3 gallons in your car.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » April 13, 2004, 3:40 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Chmee wrote:First, gas still isn't at a historical high in real dollar terms (that was roughly 2.99 a gallon back in 1981).
yeah great, that was also during an oil embargo and there was 2 mile long lineups at gas stations to put 3 gallons in your car.

Certainly that wasn't the best time for gas consumption. I just made the comment because a lot of the articles on this subject have talked about "record" prices. And while factually true that they are a record for nominal price, that doesn't really give that good of a picture of the situation (to be fair, some articles do point out that the inflation adjusted values are different).

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 13, 2004, 6:58 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: I will be starting a new job next week that will require me to commute 5 days a week 80 miles away.

I am sickened by how much I will be spending in gas every week. I also dread the 90 min drive both ways each day. But, I make that sacrifice for my children. My son goes to school where I am now. My entire family lives within 5 minutes from me. I want to give them this stability. I will take the hit, and so will my wallet....ugh.

How much will your travel expenses for fuel be on a monthly basis do you predict? I'm going to guess that, while it's a lot, it's probably nothing compared to the wear and tear cost on your vehicle. Definitely make sure you have AAA before pulling that commute off as it really sucks having a car die on you 50 miles away from home.

On a completely unrelated note, there's a reason why people chose to pay more to live near mass transit. The train station is less than a mile from me and our condo value is worth no less than 25% more than to be expected for our area, even in NJ, because of it. Some people need beach front property, some just need easy access to work regardless of their occupation location.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » April 13, 2004, 6:59 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Truant wrote:I'm seriously, seriously, considering switching to a motorcycle for gas and insurance reasons alone.
Isn't motorcycle insurance like way higher down there? I had a bike a few years ago and the liability insurace made my toes hurt.

Actually because of my age, and present location...I'm being quoted almost $1k/6months for a fully paid for 10 year old vehicle (minimum legal required coverage). For a beginner level bike (250-450cc) I'm getting less than $400/year (full coverage against vandalism/theft). Some bikes as low as ~$200/year.

Have no riding experience though, so I'll probably be signing up for the MSF course in the next couple of weeks.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 13, 2004, 7:26 pm

Mid, you might want to consider leasing an eco-box for the commute. Having a vehicle without a bumper to bumper warranty makes a long commute liek that a nightmare.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 14, 2004, 4:21 pm

Forgot to mention, depending on what state you're in - you don't need to have insurance (at all) for a motorcycle as long as it's either paid for or the loan you have on it doesn't require insurance. I know here in Florida it's not required to have insurance on a motorcycle.

CalandraWindrose · Post by **CalandraWindrose** » April 21, 2004, 9:46 pm

Honestly I don't care if the price of gas goes up

and yah I own a car

and yah I commute to work

and no I don't make a lot of money

the price of gas has been artificially low for years

people used to pay attn to fuel efficiency - now they don't care -they buy big ass cars that guzzle gas and then bitch about the cost

hopefully higher prices will spur some more alternative fuel initiatives and greater interest in hybrids

Karae · Post by **Karae** » April 21, 2004, 11:48 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah it might be cheap comared to other countries, but it's really killing many of us who don't make a lot of money.

Especially those of us that have to deliver pizzas? Tips just don't cover it, do they?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2004, 11:25 am

i respect the guy for doing what it takes to provide for his family (ie taking on a 2nd job). i'm sure it isnt exactly fun to deliver pizza.

growing up and being a man aren't always fun, so enjoy yourself while you are still a kid.

sorry to derail the highschool-style midnyte bashing though.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » April 22, 2004, 11:51 am

Whats considered good gas mileage now anyway? I think my car gets between 25-28 and I still feel like kicking something when I refill. I think if I had the option to ride a bus to work I probably would with the amount of Insurance I have to pay and gas.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 22, 2004, 2:11 pm

Although I usually don't agree with Midnyte here I do agree with Vor!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 22, 2004, 6:24 pm

Voronwë wrote:i respect the guy for doing what it takes to provide for his family (ie taking on a 2nd job). i'm sure it isnt exactly fun to deliver pizza.

I don't care what the position, company, title is that someone may have. If they're at least keeping a job, that's a lot more than you can say for a lot of people. Yeah, it may be hard to find a 'high quality' or 'high paying' job, but there's nothing stopping you from getting a job at McDonalds or something other than pride and ego.

One of the most fun jobs I ever had was working at Burger King (right Aslanna!) and 7-11. Didn't pay for crap, but was mostly fun.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 23, 2004, 2:42 am

Karae wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah it might be cheap comared to other countries, but it's really killing many of us who don't make a lot of money.
Especially those of us that have to deliver pizzas? Tips just don't cover it, do they?

There is plenty to flame midnyte for without having to resort to this shit.

Revs · Post by **Revs** » May 16, 2004, 7:20 pm

Someone explain why OPEC refuses to get off their asses and resume production?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 16, 2004, 7:40 pm

Siji wrote:
Voronwë wrote:i respect the guy for doing what it takes to provide for his family (ie taking on a 2nd job). i'm sure it isnt exactly fun to deliver pizza.
I don't care what the position, company, title is that someone may have. If they're at least keeping a job, that's a lot more than you can say for a lot of people. Yeah, it may be hard to find a 'high quality' or 'high paying' job, but there's nothing stopping you from getting a job at McDonalds or something other than pride and ego.

One of the most fun jobs I ever had was working at Burger King (right Aslanna!) and 7-11. Didn't pay for crap, but was mostly fun.

Sounds like you were weasing the juice at 7-11 and Aslanna was getting free meals at Burgur King!

Gamei · Post by **Gamei** » May 16, 2004, 8:55 pm

Karae wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah it might be cheap comared to other countries, but it's really killing many of us who don't make a lot of money.
Especially those of us that have to deliver pizzas? Tips just don't cover it, do they?

No Karae they don't, yes I do deliver pizzas, yes I'm currently looking for another job, whatever it may be, gas station included.

Cheap and unnecessary shot. People do what they have to do to support themselves and their family, and your hate of Midnyte has nothing to do with that, especially when it's an indirect insult to everyone else who works the same job.

Our mileage pay($0.65 per delivery) hasn't gone up since I've been there, a year, though gas prices have gone up over fifty cents/gallon in my area in the same time period. It doesn't come close to covering gas and wear and tear, which it is supposed to do. Currently if I make $60 in tips over two nights half that goes to gas. It's ridiculous.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 17, 2004, 9:20 am

Lets see Gas has gone up 20 cents a Gallon right? I have a 20 Gallon tank thats $4.00 a tank jesus christ people dont Super size your value meal you will get it all back.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 17, 2004, 10:52 am

I wish it was that simple Cartalas. My wife is a home care nurse. She commonly logs 700 miles a week and usually a lot more. Our car gets 30+ miles per gallon but the rise in gas prices ($2.05/gallon) has definitely hit us in the pocketbook. We won't go broke anytime soon but a lot of this can be averted if the government would cut some of the taxes on gas. Last I heard, gas taxes accounted for $.93 per gallon.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 17, 2004, 10:56 am

And of course the price of fuel feeds into all consumer goods since they have to be transported to market...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 17, 2004, 11:01 am

Deward wrote:I wish it was that simple Cartalas. My wife is a home care nurse. She commonly logs 700 miles a week and usually a lot more. Our car gets 30+ miles per gallon but the rise in gas prices ($2.05/gallon) has definitely hit us in the pocketbook. We won't go broke anytime soon but a lot of this can be averted if the government would cut some of the taxes on gas. Last I heard, gas taxes accounted for $.93 per gallon.

Deward sorry to hear about your wife's commute, Maybe some of that .93 could be used for alternative fuel reseasrch.

Mort · Post by **Mort** » May 17, 2004, 11:03 am

$2.fucking49 on the way into work today...

Someone fix this shit. I will kill myself if I have to buy a Hybrid!

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 17, 2004, 11:10 am

Cartalas wrote:Deward sorry to hear about your wife's commute, Maybe some of that .93 could be used for alternative fuel reseasrch.

I wouldn't have a problem with that either. The next car will likely be some sort of hybrid but my wife goes through cars too quick and I am still worried about the long term reliability of the current models.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 17, 2004, 11:20 am

Arborealus wrote:And of course the price of fuel feeds into all consumer goods since they have to be transported to market...

Speaking of which...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... _stocks_dc

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » May 17, 2004, 11:27 am

You know, the conspiritorial among us may consider this a oil-car plot to force us to switch to more gas friendly (read: hybrid) automotives..

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 17, 2004, 2:50 pm

Cartalas wrote:Lets see Gas has gone up 20 cents a Gallon right? I have a 20 Gallon tank thats $4.00 a tank jesus christ people dont Super size your value meal you will get it all back.

20 cents since what time? Perhaps in the past month or two. It's definitely been more than 20 cents overall. I don't buy much gas but it was in the $1.50 range the beginning of the year. It's over $2.00 now.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 17, 2004, 3:03 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Lets see Gas has gone up 20 cents a Gallon right? I have a 20 Gallon tank thats $4.00 a tank jesus christ people dont Super size your value meal you will get it all back.
20 cents since what time? Perhaps in the past month or two. It's definitely been more than 20 cents overall. I don't buy much gas but it was in the $1.50 range the beginning of the year. It's over $2.00 now.

Its been in the $175-180 Range for about 4 months

"Earlier in the month, the agency, part of the federal Department of Energy, warned that gasoline prices might rise to a nationwide average of $1.83 a gallon in April, well past the previous record — not adjusted for inflation — of $1.747 a gallon in August 2003. Retail gasoline prices have already climbed more than 15 percent this year, to $1.72 a gallon on average nationwide. In California, the average is $2.10 a gallon, the energy agency said. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/18/busin ... 31&ei=5070