Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

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Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Wulfran »

I'm a little surprised no one has brought this up. The story is getting a LOT of play here in the Pittsburgh area, but its on ESPN non-stop, and even other national media outlets.

I can't believe the way this was mishandled by Penn State. It boggles my mind that these guys would think possible reputation damage to the school would be more important than the safety and well-being of kids. Did they think this type of thing would just go away and no one would say anything about it ever again? I don't know that Paterno deserves charges but he does deserve to be fired:as one commentator (Matt Millen maybe?) I saw yesterday said you don't report a rape to your supervisor, you call the cops.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/stor ... lure-power
But Penn State president Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley, vice president for business and finance Gary Schultz and coach Joe Paterno should be held to a higher standard. So should The Second Mile, a charity that was founded to help children. Whether or not Sandusky is convicted, each was faced with a critical choice with damning information and chose to protect the program. This is what power has become. More accurately, it is what power has always been, in existence to protect itself.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Bubba Grizz »

The guy has 40 counts against him. That means that there are 40 potential law suits against Penn State which will all probably be successful for massive amounts of cash. I think Penn State is going to be in a bad way for a long long time while they try and recover from this. Also I think this may push Joe over the edge and into his casket.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Winnow »

Bubba Grizz wrote:The guy has 40 counts against him. That means that there are 40 potential law suits against Penn State which will all probably be successful for massive amounts of cash. I think Penn State is going to be in a bad way for a long long time while they try and recover from this. Also I think this may push Joe over the edge and into his casket.
He may go the route of Andy Rooney. Retire/booted and doesn't stick around in the world long after.

Some of my relatives went to Penn State and are big football fans. I'm curious to get their opinion on this.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

He retired from coaching in 99. Had to be a result of the Victim 1 stuff, which means that JoePa had to have at least caught wind of it then. Then JoePa was explicitly told about it in like 2002 by (now Assistant Coach) Mike McQueary. Neither of them went to the police, and both of them still saw Jerry Sandusky hanging out with pre-teen boys around Penn State for at least 5 or 6 more years before someone finally went to the police. Had either of those guys said something to the cops, they might have prevented at least one (probably a lot more than one) rape of a little boy.

The newly created Big 10 Championship trophy is called the Stagg-Paterno trophy. Do you think they should take his name off of it? In a lot of cases I would say no, but turning a blind eye to sexual abuse of children for more than 10 years is just about the worst thing I can imagine short of being Jerry Sandusky.

This is just reprehensible. Worst "sports" scandal ever.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

Its just a terrible situation. I'm happy to see that anyone who did something illegal (either perjury or kiddie touching) will be charged and tried. I'm sad to see that everyone wants to put so much on Joe Paterno and the reporting assistant coach on the one account, Mike McQueery.

Hind site is 20/20 for everyone. Joepa and McQueery did nothing wrong/illegal. You want to tell me that your moral code demands more, that's fine, but they did nothing illegal. The people that Joepa reported to, Tim Curley (AD) and Gary Schultz (head of finance, etc) were the right people...because Schultz OVERSEES THE POLICE...so, in essence, the police were informed by Joepa. Schultz went on to cover up and made the decision to not continue the information dissemination to the police under him, and ultimately commit perjury...and he will be paying for that, rightfully so. But hey, keep ignoring that police connection, keep putting it back on JoePa. Don't report the whole story, only report the parts that make your argument more valid, or look better, or make JoePa look worse. Yep, that's what journalism is about.

again, its an absolute terrible situation, and I feel horrible for the victims of any crimes, and pray that justice is served to those that broke the law.

Yes, clearly I am a PSU alumni. So go ahead and hate hate hate. I'll be up to the game this Saturday, I guess to see Joepa coach his final home game. That thought makes this trip way more somber.

edit: I was in school when Sandusky retired, and I remember being sad because I thought he would take over as head coach. It was a "sudden" retirement, so I would agree that he walked out clearly due to something pushing him out of the job. I have no proof, but just saying I remember when it was announced, and how sudden it felt.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Wulfran »

Kluden wrote:Hind site is 20/20 for everyone. Joepa and McQueery did nothing wrong/illegal. You want to tell me that your moral code demands more, that's fine, but they did nothing illegal. The people that Joepa reported to, Tim Curley (AD) and Gary Schultz (head of finance, etc) were the right people...because Schultz OVERSEES THE POLICE...so, in essence, the police were informed by Joepa.
This is what I don't understand, and part of it is the confusing as fuck jurrisdictional issues with cops down here. So you're saying the University has its own cops who are responsible for investigating felony sex crimes and they report to the executives who have been found to have perjured themselves to "protect" the college? The conflict of interest that has been shown to arise is pretty major.

Kluden wrote:Yes, clearly I am a PSU alumni. So go ahead and hate hate hate. I'll be up to the game this Saturday, I guess to see Joepa coach his final home game. That thought makes this trip way more somber.

edit: I was in school when Sandusky retired, and I remember being sad because I thought he would take over as head coach. It was a "sudden" retirement, so I would agree that he walked out clearly due to something pushing him out of the job. I have no proof, but just saying I remember when it was announced, and how sudden it felt.
Say what you want about my moral code, but I'm proud to admit it puts the safety and welfare of kids above a football team or a college. I want due process to be followed, but if these allegations are borne out, then a lot of people should be on the hot seat.

I'm not hating on Penn State per se, I am hating on those who systematically covered up the rapes of young kids, kids involved in activities organized that were loosely affiliated with the football program if not the institution as a whole. It boggles my mind that no one went outside the insitution, to the State Troopers or whatever to protect these kids, who needed it more than a college or its football team. Pushing a guy out as "heir apparent" to a prestigious coaching position isn't a punishment that fits the crime. Especially when they allow him to keep participating in youth football camp events and give him the opportunity to molest more boys.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

Schultz may oversee the police, but he's not a policeman. He's like the deputy mayor of a town; a civilian bureaucrat. If any rational adult were to see a child being harmed in their city, they wouldn't mention it to the deputy mayor and expect that to be the end of it. They'd call the fucking police. You can say that JoePa and McQuery did nothing "illegal", but they sure as shit did something wrong. The something they did wrong isn't that they only told their immediate superiors rather than law enforcement. That's poor judgement, but I can play devil's advocate and see why that would happen. The something they did wrong was that even after it was established (from their own testimony to the grand jury) that they were aware that this sick fuck is a pederast, they didn't call the police when he was still bringing little boys by PSU football practices. "Fool me once" and such.

This blog did a pretty good job of making me realize why everyone should put so much on Mike McQueary:
Now here is the detail that, among all the details in the Grand Jury’s extensive depiction of the morally depraved behavior of Sandusky, Curley, Schultz, Paterno, PSU president Graham Spanier, and McQueary, is perhaps the most shocking: Five years after this, in the spring of 2007, Sandusky was attending PSU football practices with his latest rape victim: a 12-year-old boy who he had met through a Second Mile camp conducted at PSU, and who he was in the process of, among other things, orally sodomizing.

At this point, McQueary was no longer a graduate assistant, as he had been promoted to an administrative assistant position on the football staff a few months after his meetings with Paterno, Curley and Schultz, and was made a full-fledged assistant coach the following year. So Mike McQueary and Joe Paterno were at the PSU football practices to which Jerry Sandusky was showing up with his latest child rape victim in tow. They saw him, there, with his latest victim. They could not have had any doubt, at that point, about what they were seeing.

Certain (pitifully inadequate) excuses can be are being proffered for Paterno’s behavior, then and now: he’s an old confused man, coming from a generation of men who were so intensely repressed about these sorts of matters that he didn’t really understand the gravity of what McQueary had told him, and after all he hadn’t actually seen Sandusky raping a ten-year-old boy. Etc.

As miserable as these attempts to minimize Paterno’s disgraceful conduct are, what can one say about McQueary’s? In 2002, McQueary was a powerful young athlete, just a couple of years removed from NFL training camps. It’s possible, I suppose, to make some sort of excuse, based on the effects of shock and disgust, for his behavior in that locker room, where instead of coming to the aid of a ten-year-old boy being raped by a 58-year-old man, he fled and called his father.

...

Leaving that aside, consider McQueary’s subsequent behavior. It appears that he in effect decided his nascent coaching career was more important than stopping Jerry Sandusky from not merely raping little boys, but from using the Penn State campus to gather his prey, and using Penn State football games and practices to “reward” his little victims. In other words, this is a case in which McQueary, in the years after he actually saw Sandusky raping a little boy, came face to face with Sandusky in the company of the little boys Sandusky was raping at the time – and he continued to nothing further about it. And not because his life or freedom or those of anyone close to him might be in danger, but because he knew that the coaching fraternity does not look well on taking things “outside the family.”
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

Wulfran: I would have done the same as you. I'm just saying that our morale obligations aren't other peoples, and that doesn't make them criminals, it makes their morale code different than ours, that's it.

I am in no way saying that Sandusky being pushed out was any way whatsoever a punishment for any crime whatsoever. I'm just guessing, like everyone else, that its why he exited the way he exited. Not that its any sort of punishment, for any sort of crime, or whether it was just for any such anything that may or may not have been known at the time.

The campus has its own police force, yes. Just like regular state college, pa police, but their jurisdiction is university property bound. Not really a big police force, and something like this would have brought in the state college police, for sure, had it been reported properly by the AD and others.


That blog is kinda weird...makes it sound like there were rapes and sodomizings going on @ the stadium on the sidelines, in public, here, there, everywhere. Its fairly clear that McQueary witnessed one act, and reported to his superior, or who he thought best to report it to. Dude did what he thought best. He didn't do nothing. It really doesn't make him a bad person.

So, with that said, McQueary did NOT try to cover it up, he just should have done more. Joe Paterno did NOT try to cover it up, he just should have done more. Those two statements don't equal the shear amount of lynch mobbing that's being directed at them right now.

That's all I'm upset about. I agree that you burn Sandusky at the stake, along with the perjury committing fools of an athletic director and business director. Schultz isn't a policeman, but he clearly has the access and the knowledge of reporting crimes, etc etc. So yeah, there is a connection there.

The 2nd Chance charity thing being allowed at PSU events is understandable to me from a philanthropic standpoint, its not like Joe is sitting there watching rapes take place in his facilities. I just don't understand why Sandusky was allowed back on campus, they could have shut him out after the McQueary witness thing, and allowed someone else from the organization to bring 2nd chance kids on campus instead. That's the only thing I am really suspect on with JoePa and the university.

The only thing I can think of, and this is purely conjecture, is that Joe and Sandusky spoke after the McQueary incident, and the 30+ years of friendship between them was enough for Joe to believe whatever lie Sandusky fed him...clearly we never truly know the people in our lives.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Canelek »

I was confused about the whole child abuse at college thing until this thread, thanks! I figured Penn St had lower admittance ages or something. Damn shame their football coaches were rapey. =/
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Leonaerd »

Joe Paterno did NOT try to cover it up, he just should have done more. Those two statements don't equal the shear amount of lynch mobbing that's being directed at them right now.
Criminal neglect.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Boogahz »

Leonaerd wrote:
Joe Paterno did NOT try to cover it up, he just should have done more. Those two statements don't equal the shear amount of lynch mobbing that's being directed at them right now.
Criminal neglect.
Didn't a grand jury already decide against charges being filed, or am I mixing this up with other cases? Until he has actually been charged and found guilty, it is nothing but a "lynch mob" mentality being shown. Criminal Negligence? Doubtful based on information already out there. Civil? Hell, anyone can be sued for anything.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Leonaerd »

No idea. But it's a consideration, and it's completely fucked that Paterno didn't see this guy exposed. He wanted to take it to the grave.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Boogahz »

Leonaerd wrote:No idea. But it's a consideration, and it's completely fucked that Paterno didn't see this guy exposed. He wanted to take it to the grave.
That's what you assume.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

I don't agree with the steps taken or not taken by Paterno, but he didn't do anything illegal, he broke no laws. The grand jury trial against sandusky agrees. The lynching we are witnessing is just to make people feel better about the whole situation, somehow. Its amazing how the media and its lynchmob are all victims in this somehow.

But whatever, the board dismissed JoePa lastnight, so you all got your pound of flesh. Congrats on making it about a football program. Congrats on making it all about a school as a whole. Congrats for your hate. Congrats on adding to the list of people affected by this and congrats on ruining more lives than have already been destroyed by the original crimes committed by one terrible man.

I just want to make it clear before you all read into my comments way more than you should, I'm not excusing anyone here. I am just very upset at the lynch mobbing that occurred, and where the media news stories talked more about JoePa and the football program and the university, than they did about the person who committed the crimes and is in court for the crimes. My problem is with that focus shift, and the intent of the focus to ruin based on no fact, but opinions.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Winnow »

If Joe Paterno knew about kids being raped and didn't take the proper steps, he should have been fired back in 1999. He should count himself lucky he got to coach for so many more years. Kids need all the help they can get.

Treat every person the same. It doesn't matter if he had a storied coaching career. That earns him zero in this case.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

I agree, Winnow. But you see, he was reported to by someone else in 2002. So he knew about one. I can understand your confusion, because the media is making it look like Joe was there cheering on rapings in his locker room or some such shit.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Winnow »

Kluden wrote:I agree, Winnow. But you see, he was reported to by someone else in 2002. So he knew about one. I can understand your confusion, because the media is making it look like Joe was there cheering on rapings in his locker room or some such shit.
Do you think what he did was acceptable? Do you think he took the proper steps considering the nature of the crime?

It's a valid question. If a coworker came up to you and told you they just saw another employee molest/rape a kid, what would you do? It's possible you're right. If Joe told his superior right away about what happened and knew nothing about any of the other kids, maybe he did do the right thing.

I admit, i need to read up more on the details. I'm looking for what you think morally, etc about what happened.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

Putting myself in the hypothetical situation you have listed, and being a manager myself, and NOT being the person who saw anything, I'm just the person who was told by a subordinate, I would immediately report to my superior. My moral code would require me to follow up and keep tabs on it to make sure it didn't get brushed under the rug, and a proper investigation was done as to condemn or exonerate the accused. But that's me, and its not required of me to do that.

I think what Joe did is acceptable in reference to someone reporting something like that. Joe didn't witness anything. Its someone's word, and you want to trust people of course, so you report it up the chain as is your obligation. So, like I said to Wulfran originally, I may not agree with the moral obligations being covered here, but at the same time I don't expect everyone in the world to share my morals. So, with that said, Joepa didn't try to hide anything, so in my opinion, he did the minimum that would be expected of anyone being reported to would be responsible for. If Joepa was the direct witness, we would be having a different discussion.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

Sure, it's not required of anyone to do anything more than report it to their superiors. However, it's expected of a decent human being that they are going to try and stop anyone from abusing a child. If I had an employee that didn't (like the Board of Penn St. did), I would fire them for that.

Read the Grand Jury report, if you can stomach it. It's pretty repulsive.

Let's just look over some facts, shall we?
  • Before his retirement, Jerry Sandusky often travels with adolescent boys, having them sit at the coaches table, stay with him in the team hotel, etc.
  • Incidents reported to campus police in 1998 (Victim 6 as well as someone they refer to as "B.K.")
  • 55 year-old Sandusky, Defensive Coordinator that is being groomed for head coaching job, retires in 1999
  • Incident witnessed by Janitor in 2000 (Victim 8 )
  • Incident witnessed by McQueary in 2002, reported to JoePa and higher-ups on the food chain (Victim 2)
  • Shortly after this incident, McQueary is informed that Sandusky has been banned from bringing young people to Penn St. athletic facilities.
  • Sandusky brought at least one boy to pre-season practices in 2007 (Victim 1)
Do you honestly believe that Joe Paterno was unaware of any of this, outside of Victim 2?

Do you honestly believe that, after hearing that your friend of more than 20 years has had anal sex with a young boy, you shouldn't probably question why nothing came of that report for more than 5 years as well as the fact that your friend is still hanging out with young boys and bringing them back to the same place that he committed previous crime(s)? That's not at all fishy to you, provided you did the bare, legally-obligated minimum by informing your direct supervisor?

Even if you still want to believe in Joe Paterno's ignorance of all of this (and trust me, as a die-hard fan of my own program, I can understand and relate to why you would want to believe in that), isn't that a good enough reason for the PSU board to fire him? Talk about lack of institutional control. It's pretty clear that there was a culture of willful ignorance and/or downright negligence in Happy Valley, and the only thing you can do at that point is to clean house.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Wulfran »

Kluden wrote:I don't agree with the steps taken or not taken by Paterno, but he didn't do anything illegal, he broke no laws. The grand jury trial against sandusky agrees. The lynching we are witnessing is just to make people feel better about the whole situation, somehow. Its amazing how the media and its lynchmob are all victims in this somehow.
Hey, there's Penn State alums that are speaking out that Paterno didn't do enough. He may not have broken any laws, but at the same time, he wasn't pro-active in chasing this down. For a man that built his reputation about doing what is right and honorable, his lack of action is surprising. I think the media reaction is partial based in that disappointment, but also rooted in the fact that our worst fear as parents (those of us who are) is that your child comes to harm, and in this case, maybe not all of the kids could have been spared but the later ones could have. The most unforgivable crimes in our society are those committed against the helpless, and you don't get much more helpless than kids.
Kluden wrote:But whatever, the board dismissed JoePa lastnight, so you all got your pound of flesh. Congrats on making it about a football program. Congrats on making it all about a school as a whole. Congrats for your hate. Congrats on adding to the list of people affected by this and congrats on ruining more lives than have already been destroyed by the original crimes committed by one terrible man.
Its not about a pound of flesh from someone undeserving: its about fixing a culture that cared more about protecting the university and football program, than about protecting some kids. Its a bitter irony that had the complaints been acted on 10 years ago, there might have been a little shadow cast over from Sandusky, but Penn State's reputation as a whole would have been undamaged, and possibly even enhanced (you don't think the Legend of JoePa would have grown had he chosen the welfare of those kids over his friend and protege?). When he spoke, I sympathized with Paterno, when he says he wishes he would have done more, but he lost me when he said everything he did, he did for Penn State: OK he did his job but his higher purpose as a human being should have been to those kids.

Instead the bloodletting is just beginning. We already have 2 individuals proven to have perjured themselves. Sandusky is entitled to due process but I don't see how he could be not guilty. Paterno and the University president have been fired. Who knows who else will fall? The only other guarantee is there will be lawsuits and they will be massive.
Kluden wrote:I just want to make it clear before you all read into my comments way more than you should, I'm not excusing anyone here. I am just very upset at the lynch mobbing that occurred, and where the media news stories talked more about JoePa and the football program and the university, than they did about the person who committed the crimes and is in court for the crimes. My problem is with that focus shift, and the intent of the focus to ruin based on no fact, but opinions.
I can't comment on the bias of most of the reporters involved in this story (there may be some haters out there who wanted to take down a prestigious program and school, I don't know, there often are), but the facts and especially the grand jury report speak for themself. The entire culture of the administration at Penn State acted as enablers to Sandusky's crimes. How can you honestly call it a lynching when thats the case? I also don't think the focus has really shifted either: people want EVERYONE involved punished and they want guarantees that everything is being done to ensure this kind of situation cannot happen again.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

of the victims mentioned in the grand jury filing, (1) was directly known by JoePa, and the rest were not. (1) other was known by university workers...janitors...and they did NOT goto Joepa. Since Joepa isn't mentioned in that part of the findings, you cannot assume he knew about it, or any of the others, even with police involvement back in 1998. If Joepa covered things up, why wouldn't that be in the grand jury filing? Because he wasn't involved.

You, like the media, are making it like Joe knew/had a hand in all the victims. He knew about one. To ASSUME he knew about the others, is just an assumption. I'm going by the grand jury filing. Joepa is mentioned under (1) victims filing. None of the others. If there is evidence of additional knowledge and inactivity, again, we are having a different conversation, at least from me.

I feel like we are kind of arguing different points...I'm not trying to excuse anyone...I'm trying to say punishments should fit crimes. Joe commited no crime.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Winnow »

Kluden wrote: I feel like we are kind of arguing different points...I'm not trying to excuse anyone...I'm trying to say punishments should fit crimes. Joe commited no crime.
You could verbally abuse your wife for 20 years. You haven't committed a crime but you're still an asshole. Lucky for Joe, he probably won't do any time but he can be fired and he was.

So when Jerry Sandusky, Joe's #1 assistant, is stopped and questioned by police from two different departments on campus, you don't think he knew anything about it? You don't think ANYONE in the school told Joe what happened to his #1 assistant? And then Joe observing all those years after seeing Jerry with kids? Are you serious? Way to turn the blind eye. The rest of this thread should be a blast listening to you try to explain things away. It amazes me. I wouldn't give a damn if I went to Penn State or if it was a coach from my school. He's lucky if any more legal stuff doesn't some up.

The punishment did fit the crime. He got fired. Maybe if your kid was fucked in the ass you might think different about pappa Joe ignoring things.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

Kluden wrote:I feel like we are kind of arguing different points...I'm not trying to excuse anyone...I'm trying to say punishments should fit crimes. Joe commited no crime.
And he's not being charged with one or going to jail. But he definitely exercised poor judgement, and poor judgement is a fire-able offense regardless of the job you're in.

We'll have to agree to disagree on how much Paterno knew. I don't know for sure that he knew about more than one incident, and you don't know for sure that he didn't. The only fact that we know is that he was made aware of Jerry Sandusky buttfucking one child, and I guess that's no reason to vilify the guy or to look at him sideways when he shows up to your practices with other little boys... That's totally something people usually try the one time to figure out if they like it or not. :roll:
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

Way to make it sound like Joe is fucking kids...again. He made a bad judgement call in not doing more, and got fired for it. Nothing more to it, I guess. I'm not trying to explain things away either, Winnow, nice try, I can only work from the facts present in the court files. And if it was my kid, I would have straight up shot Sandusky in the fucking head, end of story.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by miir »

It's gotta be pretty devastating to him knowing that he could have prevented the rape of a bunch of little boys if he'd done more than just trying to protect the school and it's football program.

I imagine getting fired is pretty minor in comparison.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by masteen »

Sylvus wrote:The only fact that we know is that he was made aware of Jerry Sandusky buttfucking one child...
We don't even know that for a fact. Exactly what McQueary told Paterno is unknown, other than that Sandusky was doing something inappropriate. It's sure as fuck doesn't sound like JoePa was told Sandusky was an assrapist.

But whatever you think about Paterno, how does McQueary get to keep his job? He actually saw the kid getting anal probed, clearly didn't make that crystal clear to JoePA, and then when he saw it gettting swept under the rug, didn't to a fucking thing.

One would think that the guy who gave 46 years of service and didn't actually see anything would get more consideration than the asshole who DID witness the rape.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

Well, the guy in charge of the ship is in the end responsible for all activities, known or not, on said ship. Hence the Graham Spaniar firing too. So with that I'm coming to grips with the Paterno firing...it clearly had to happen, I guess I was just most upset about it being over the phone instead of in person.

I know that McQueary has been excused from coaching obligations this weekend. So I'm guessing they are taking his case a little slower since no one is calling for his head..yet...and have basically suspended him, without calling it that. At least that's how I took the report.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Jice Virago »

Can we agree that anyone with a whiff of knowledge that some dude is cornholing teenage boys should imediately scream to the cops until its taken care of? On that basis alone, Joe had to get canned, since he made a report to his boss, indicating knowledge of something going on. McQueary should have been canned first, though, since he deffinately knew everything that was going on. In fact, he witnessed a federal crime and failed to report it, so I would think that might fall under some sort of conspiracy or obstruction of justice part of the criminal code. I mean, if you observe a rape, child or not, and don't report it I am pretty sure you can get charged.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Winnow »

Winnow wrote:
Bubba Grizz wrote: Also I think this may push Joe over the edge and into his casket.
He may go the route of Andy Rooney. Retire/booted and doesn't stick around in the world long after.
So long Joe.
Former Penn State football coach Joe Paterno has died, his family confirmed Sunday. He was 85. The legendary coach was fired in November 2011 during his 46th season at the helm of the Nittany Lions program.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Wulfran »

Sad to see someone pass away but I think many of us saw this one coming: how many 70+ yr olds survive being forcibly removed from their great loves in life, and I don't think it can be argued that for the mistakes he may have made, he loved Penn State and coaching football for the school. At the same time, he did live a long life, rose to the pinnacle of his chosen profession, and it appears he was also able to keep his relationships with his family intact, which is something many "successful" people in the public eye struggle with.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by miir »

So I guess 'JoePa' really did care more about protecting his team than protecting little boys from being raped by Sandusky.

I say throw the fucking lot of them in prison and pay out the equivalent of the football programs profits from the past 14 years to the victims and their families... oh and melt down that fucking statue of Paterno.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

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miir wrote:So I guess 'JoePa' really did care more about protecting his team than protecting little boys from being raped by Sandusky.

I say throw the fucking lot of them in prison and pay out the equivalent of the football programs profits from the past 14 years to the victims and their families... oh and melt down that fucking statue of Paterno.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

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miir wrote:So I guess 'JoePa' really did care more about protecting his team than protecting little boys from being raped by Sandusky.

I say throw the fucking lot of them in prison and pay out the equivalent of the football programs profits from the past 14 years to the victims and their families... oh and melt down that fucking statue of Paterno.
The more I think about this, the more I come up with questions, like how long did this really go on? It was 14 years since the one botched/silenced investigation but how long before that was Sandusky raping kids, and did the power fnord at Penn State know about it?

Its been all over the news here in Pittsburghia since the story broke and it just looks continually worse for Penn State and the Brain Trust in charge of the football program. The media is full of criticism for Paterno and everyone else, and its hard to disagree: how can you defend putting an athletic program or even an educational institution above the welfare of kids? More and more it looks like that's exactly what went on. Yes, there will be collateral damage to people who were peripherally involved but when you look at want happened, its hard to feel too much sympathy to anyone but the kids Sandusky raped.

I guess now we can only hope that Penn State serves as a model of what should not happen and others learn from the mistakes made. I also hope that the institution of Penn State recovers and becomes better for the excising and removal of this infection; maybe some day I'll be proud to send my kid there...
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Aslanna »

Kluden wrote:I don't agree with the steps taken or not taken by Paterno, but he didn't do anything illegal, he broke no laws. The grand jury trial against sandusky agrees. The lynching we are witnessing is just to make people feel better about the whole situation, somehow. Its amazing how the media and its lynchmob are all victims in this somehow.

But whatever, the board dismissed JoePa lastnight, so you all got your pound of flesh. Congrats on making it about a football program. Congrats on making it all about a school as a whole. Congrats for your hate. Congrats on adding to the list of people affected by this and congrats on ruining more lives than have already been destroyed by the original crimes committed by one terrible man.

I just want to make it clear before you all read into my comments way more than you should, I'm not excusing anyone here. I am just very upset at the lynch mobbing that occurred, and where the media news stories talked more about JoePa and the football program and the university, than they did about the person who committed the crimes and is in court for the crimes. My problem is with that focus shift, and the intent of the focus to ruin based on no fact, but opinions.
Does this still hold up? Was it really a lynch mobbing? Seems like a whole lot of shenanigans were going on!
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Canelek »

SMU lost their football program for years in the 80s for hookers and other player perks. PENN St should go down hard.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Boogahz »

This had no impact on players, which is where the NCAA comes in. The responsible parties should be going through the criminal courts instead.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Kluden »

Aslanna wrote: Does this still hold up? Was it really a lynch mobbing? Seems like a whole lot of shenanigans were going on!
I still believe in waiting for actual evidence to come out, like it did this past week, before passing communal judgement. Like originally stated, I wasn't excusing anyone, just saying there is a process. That's what the courts are for. Back when this story first started, there was an extreme joyful response by anyone not affiliated with penn state, and it was just ridiculous that it was more about the downfall, than about the actual crimes and victims. I was wrong about Joepa though, that's evidently clear, and insanely disappointing.

As for the NCAA sanctioning, well, there's not much they can do within the realm of their powers and rules, since this is outside of that. I would totally disagree with cancellation of any seasons, because then the student athletes are paying for something that they weren't responsible for or a part of. What I would like to see is that all proceeds the university would gain from the football team, say for 5 years or some arbitrary number of years, go toward some funding for the victims. Base the amount on the take from the past 10 years to make sure no one plays any funny games with the money. I would bet that's a huge number, like 20+ mill a year. That would at least ensure some good comes out of this mess. Sadly, the ncaa will probably just take all that and redistribute to the other schools, rather than put it to real use.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Winnow »

Cancel the Penn State football program for the number of years it was known kids were being raped and nothing was done.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Wulfran »

Kluden wrote: I would totally disagree with cancellation of any seasons, because then the student athletes are paying for something that they weren't responsible for or a part of.
I agree that the student athletes aren't to blame but the cover-up and thus the enabling of Sandusky's crimes were institutional. It shouldn't be business as usual for Penn State, after all this. The student athletes can transfer elsewhere; the schedule voids caused be Penn State's absence can be worked around. Yes there would still be some collateral damage (i.e. in terms of the current coaching staff who weren't even with the program for the most part), but this isn't about coaches or students: its about the entire institution trying to make amends for what it allowed to transpire. If 15 years from now, my son is fortunate enough to be approached by Penn State recruiters I want him to be able to go to a school that is able to say there were mistakes made but there was accountability for them, not just by those who made the mistakes but by those who delegated authority and allowed the situations to arise: to me that is a far more important and telling moral issue than something like what version of God you believe in.
Kluden wrote:What I would like to see is that all proceeds the university would gain from the football team, say for 5 years or some arbitrary number of years, go toward some funding for the victims. Base the amount on the take from the past 10 years to make sure no one plays any funny games with the money. I would bet that's a huge number, like 20+ mill a year. That would at least ensure some good comes out of this mess. Sadly, the ncaa will probably just take all that and redistribute to the other schools, rather than put it to real use.
That's an interesting suggestion but already Penn State lawyers are arguing against culpability in civil court, basing their arguments on statute of limitations since the crimes were committed so many years ago, so I really don't see this happening.

As for the statue of Paterno, I liked what Mark Madden of WXDX had to say: get rid of the flowery plaque, but leave the statue and let people make up their own minds/pass their own judgement on Paterno and his actions, good and bad.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

Wow, Penn State just got hit harder than SMU's death penalty (imo):

* Four-year bowl ban
* Reduction of 10 initial scholarships + 20 total scholarships each year for four years.
* $60 million fine
* All wins vacated from 1998-2011
* All current PSU players can transfer immediately

For those of you that are PSU fans, please feel free to cheer for my Michigan Wolverines for 10 or so years until you guys get back on your feet.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Zamtuk »

The Tickle Monsters just got hammered. I find this to be hilarious given the letters they sent out to the OSU recruits over the past two years.

Fun Fact: Joe Paterno is now 12th on the all time wins list.

Bonus Fun Fact!: The last winning qb at PSU was Mike McQueary. Hilarious

Wow.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

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What about punishment for people outside of the football program? Didn't the school president participate in the cover-up?
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by miir »

Those penalties seem appropriate.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

The B1G Ten also jumped on board:

* Matching ban on conf. championship game
* No revenue sharing during postseason ban (loss of ~$13MM/year)
* Censure (ooooh!)
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Aslanna »

Sylvus wrote:* All wins vacated from 1998-2011
Not being a sports person... what does that mean? Does that mean every team that played them and lost has now 'won' those games?


Nevermind.. By harnessing the power of Google I have determined that while they get a loss the other team doesn't get a win. Seems a pretty pointless punishment.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Sylvus »

It's kind of pointless, except when you think about part of the thing that some people believe kept Paterno coaching was his trying to pass Bobby Bowden and Eddie Robinson as the winningest football coach of all time. If the protection of his ability to win was part of the motivation to turn a blind eye to child rape, then fuck him and send him down the list.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by masteen »

I'd be more in favor of that if the next guy on the list wasn't the mascot for everything else that's wrong with college football.

And the NCAA piling on the sanctions against the players really pisses me off. Those guys were in fucking grade school when all this went down.
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Re: Penn State Coaching Sex Abuse

Post by Wulfran »

What sanctions against the players? The Bowl game eligibility? If it means that much to them, they can transfer without penalty to another school.

Living near Pittsburgh, and having not prior bias for or against Penn State or Joe Paterno & Co. , I have to say I am tired of all the whining by pro-Penn State people about what is/has happened: Penn State and the football program aren't victims like many cry about. The victims were some at-risk young boys, who were raped by a sick fuck, who then had their abuses covered up by the most powerful people at the university. The institution deserves sanctions and censure: the powers who ran it cared more about the reputation of their program, their friend Sandusky and themselves than they did about protecting kids.
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