Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

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Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

If they give up their star CB and a high draft pick for a mediocre backup in Kevin Kolb, they would be simply listening to bloggers, espn and uneducated fans. The kid isn't a bad QB, but all of this hype? Seriously? All I see is 'Kolb Sweepstakes' this and 'get it done' that. Really? Of course, this is the same team that thought Derek Anderson was super-awesome... Big respect to the campaign manager for Kolb though.. Must be the same team pimping Cassel as the next HOF QB... And Kolb ain't nothing next to B-rated Cassel.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

Seattle just signed (lol) Tavarius Jackson AND (lol) Matt Leinart, releasing Hasslebeck.

Besides being comedy gold, this eliminates a prime competitor for Kolb.

Arizona is in talks with Kolb, Bulger, Orton and Hasslebeck. We'll get one of them. I'm not excited about any of them but Philadelphia doesn't have as much leverage as you might think. Kolb could walk after this season. He'll be a free agent.

I could see Beanie Wells being traded for Kolb or something like that. Coach Whisenhunt said eh doesn't know where all the DRC for Kolb talk came from. He said the thought hadn't even crossed his mind. Even so, DRC might still be traded but he may not have even been offered.
Cardinals officials had trade discussions with the Eagles for Kevin Kolb and with the Broncos for Kyle Orton. They also expressed interest in signing former Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck and Ravens quarterback Marc Bulger.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

They'd be much better off with Bulger or Orton. Kolb is a complete unknown. He did absolutely nothing to make him worth more than a 6th or 7th round pick. It isn't about leverage Vs Philly. Of course, AZ has nothing to lose except draft picks... Hasselback would be a fair option as well, but Kolb? Lol. Hell, even Buffalo knew that Thigpen was a better choice for the short term.

Kolb is the product of clever marketing. Dude is not worth 1/10 as advertised. Media sources are funny like that.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

He doesn't sound that bad:


in 2009
Kolb's first NFL start was a 48-22 loss against the New Orleans Saints at home on September 20, 2009 due to an injury to Donovan McNabb. His first career touchdown was recorded in the first quarter of that game on a 71-yard pass to DeSean Jackson; he threw for 391 yards on 31 completions. On September 27, 2009, Kolb made his second start in place of McNabb, throwing for 327 yards and two touchdowns in a 34-14 win against the Kansas City Chiefs. Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for more than 300 yards in each of his first two career starts. He was named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week after his efforts against the Chiefs.
2010:
Kolb took over for Vick in a game against the Redskins in week 4 after Vick suffered a chest injury. Kolb went 22-for-35 with 201 passing yards, one touchdown and an interception in place of Vick.Against the Atlanta Falcons in week 6, Kolb went 23-for-29 for 326 yards, three touchdowns and one interception, and was named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week following his performance
In four games he was named offensive player of the week twice along with three 300+ yard games, one being 9 yards short of a 400 yard game? There's some marketing but he's got some skills.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Aslanna »

I wish Favre was coming back this year!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

It is not enough of a sampling. If you understood the history of the game, it would be easier to digest. I may be wrong, of course, but doug Williams, Tommy Maddox, and Chad Pennington, among others would likely agree. Also, I think once you remove the "we" from your preferred team, you would see beyond what people tell you.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

No one told me anything. I looked that up on Wikipedia!

And by not enough of a sampling...choose a rookie that hasn't played a single game in the NFL, or one with a track record like that for the games they've played? How much money will Luck get next year before playing a single game?

DRC is good but he also screws up plenty along with this great plays. He got burned for plenty TDs last year. He said himself that he loses his focus on the field sometimes. I think maybe you drank some DRC cool-aid. Consistency is needed.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Hehehe. No doubt that the most important position in football is the QB, but don't let the box score fool ya. And for DBs, even Champ gets burned....not that dude is of that caliber yet or ever. Watch some film!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

“Patrick Peterson is a better football player than than DRC right now,” added Jurecki. “He’s not afraid to hit.”
DRC was ranked as the worst tackling cornerback in the league last year.
(Peterson was the Cardinal's 5th pick in the draft this year)

Would you trade the worst tackling CB in the league to improve the QB spot that absolutely sucks and guarantees a 4 or 5 win season if not upgraded?

I'd love to see DRC and Peterson together.

Here's some comments from an Eagles fan:
The Eagles need a right CB. Now that we know free agency is going to include 4-year players it is time to start talking about the targets. I’m going to begin not with a free agent, but someone who might be available via trade.

I don’t think we’ve had much media speculation on this, but a few wise Eagles fans have come up with the notion of dealing Kevin Kolb to the Cardinals for CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (DRC from here on) and a pick.

The Cardinals drafted Patrick Peterson back in April to be their elite shutdown CB. They hoped to pair him with DRC to give them a really good duo. Peterson has great potential. DRC was good as a rookie and played really well in 2009, but fell off last year. He’s still a very gifted CB and the Cards thought they might be set for years.

The Cards know they need a QB. Their passing offense was brutally bad in 2010. They had an arrogant attitude about the retirement of Kurt Warner and thought they could get by. Nope. Now they must be aggressive to solve the situation. They’d love to trade a 2012 draft pick for Kevin Kolb, but that won’t do the Eagles any good this year. You wonder if the Eagles might try to pry DRC away.

The move would make some sense. He had a down season in 2010. His tackling was poor and he didn’t show any sense of urgency. When the offense is down, the defense must rally. See the 1991 Eagles for example. DRC seemed to know 2010 was a lost season and played as such. Not a good way to go about things.

I watched a couple of games last night to check out DRC. He is still a very talented player who could be really good in the right situation. He has good size at 6’2, 182. DRC is one of the fastest DBs in the league and he can run with just about any receiver. He mainly played press in the games I watched. He’s not a real physical bump and run guy, but can be hands on at times. Often he just plays close and runs with the receiver. He has the recovery speed to make up ground when he does get beat by a receiver. There are times when he still gets burned, but that recovery speed gives him a fighting chance when other corners would be toast.

DRC isn’t limited to man coverage. I was impressed with his awareness, something that is critical for zone coverage. He showed a good feel for releasing his receiver to another DB on combo routes and then picking up the receiver who came into his area. Some guys are lost in this type of situation. DRC communicated with his teammates and looked comfortable in zone.

DRC has very good ball skills. He has good hands and can pluck the ball when it comes his way. He’s got 13 picks in 48 career games. He tracks the ball well in the air. You’ll see him on some downfield routes go up and play the ball like he’s the receiver. You want CBs that are aggressive and go up for the ball. DRC can play off in coverage. He then uses his speed to break on short throws. DRC has 61 pass deflections in his career, an excellent total.

Here are some Youtube highlight clips. #1. #2.

So what is the downside? His tackling is bad, especially so in 2010. You have to remember that his idol is Deion Sanders. Deion even befriended DRC back in the pre-draft process a couple years back. That’s great when he needs coverage advice, but not so much when he needs tackling tips. DRC gets thrown at an awful lot for a guy with his ability. And it isn’t like he’s playing across from some elite CB. Teams are willing to go after him. DRC will make them pay at times, but no one is scared of him.

Would he fit the Eagles? Yes. DRC played both sides in Arizona. Being the RCB here would be no problem. He’s got the size and speed we’d love in a RCB. He likes to press, which is also something we need. He can play man or zone. We don’t yet know exactly what Juan Castillo will do with his secondary so having a guy who can do both things is a good way to go.

DRC could have a bounce-back year in 2011 and turn out to be a steal or he could be inconsistent just like 2010 and drive us all crazy. This move has definite risk, but the upside to DRC makes it real intriguing. He has the potential to be an elite CB when he’s playing his best. We saw that at times in 2008 and 2009. I think putting him back on a winning team and making him part of a good defense would bring out the best in him. I’m sure some fan will joke about our troubled defense last year, but Arizona’s was far worse – 30th in scoring, 29th in yards allowed.

I would absolutely be willing to make a move for DRC.

* * * * *

A few people asked about Greg Toler, the CB who played opposite of DRC at times last year. He looks like a talented young player, but wouldn’t be the answer to our problems at RCB. I think we’re looking for a better player. I’m not sure that Toler would be a substantial upgrade on Trevard Lindley.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Sure, if you constrain yourself to the Internet.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

What does that mean? I had NFL ticket for years. Watched the maximum games a human could watch including recorded replays. Are you some sort of football guru that attended a NFL fan analyst camp I'm not aware of?
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

I would have thought you would know more about football if you had watched that much.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

It's more like some of you think you know more than you do.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Bubba Grizz »

I know that the Packers are poised to repeat this year.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Boogahz »

I think everyone else realizes that AZ is AZ, except for Winnow.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Sueven »

Being an Eagles fan, I've actually WATCHED most of Kolb's games.

He's not bad. To say that he's worth "at most" a 6th or 7th round pick is ridiculous. Nobody knows entirely what he is at this point, but he is definitely capable of being a starting QB without being a disaster. That in itself is worth something. And he has the potential to develop into a guy who could be a solid starter for several years. He's the only QB available who could be anything other than a stop-gap solution. I will be worried if we lose him, given Vick's injury risk.

That said, if we get DRC and a good pick for him, I'll be thrilled. Anything third round or above and this is a steal.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kluden »

This is an angry football thread, without any football happening yet. Kolb is a fine QB, he has proven his skills. I would rank him right next to Matt Cassel, personally. I don't think either are HoF qb's, that's just insane to even talk about with guys that young, IMO. He's a proven commodity, Cane, don't hate :)

Is he worth a great defensive player? definitely. Is he worth a great defensive player plus draft picks? that's the debatable part.

I'm really stoked though, for the season to get going.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by masteen »

He's shown some ability as a backup, but that's a very different animal than starting every week. Mainly because instead of the defense prepping for McNabb's or the Dogcatcher's tendencies, they're focused on YOU. How well will this guy perform when teams have 10 games worth of current season footage to watch? How will he respond when a defense is schemed around removing his 3-4 favorite plays, when they're forcing him to his 3rd or 4th checkdown?

That's a lot of "IF" to be traded for a known commodity, much less known commodity + draft picks. If the Cardinals are stupid enough to offer all that, bet your ass Philly will jump on that shit.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Plus it is AZ....so you know there is fail to be had.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

OK, I've been a bit harsh, although I have gotten a kick out of the responses. :)

Kolb does indeed have the potential to be very good. Hell, maybe even worth a 3rd round pick (but not coupled with a solid starter in the trade). Sure, it's a gamble. He could easily be another Derek Anderson or a Brady Quinn. I highly doubt he will be another Steve Young or to a lesser degree Kurt Warner--but I think he can be a Cassel-type, who continues to show improvement.

They should really try to get Mr. Plummer back, as long as there is not a handball tourney going on.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by miir »

He could also be another KYLE FUCKING ORTON!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

miir wrote:He could also be another KYLE FUCKING ORTON!

KYLE FUCKING ORTONNNNNN!

Although in reality, I'd rather have him leading the team than most of the guys on or recently-off the market.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kluden »

having watched him play, having seen his footwork, his reads, his motions, his athleticism, he has everything a competent quarterback has in the NFL. On top of that he has started and won games with his arm. Most young quarterbacks don't have 20+ starts and a season or more of starting for a team when they are being traded.

What other position gets gambled on as much as QB? You say he's not worth a known commodity on defense, I say you're wrong, especially when you just drafted up at that commodity position with a strong player in Patrick Peterson. Clearly they think a LOT of Peterson's abilities.


BTW< Kolb is going to Arizona as of 1 minute ago! And yes, it was for that known commodity of Rogers-Cromartie AND a 2nd round draft pick...PLUS extended Kolb's contract to about $12 million a year! WOW.

5 years, $63 million, $20 mill guaranteed. That's a real pretty contract, his agent just went out and bought a ferrari and 2 hookers.

I'm not a fan of either of these teams, I just love talking football. I hope Kolb does well for Arizona. Would hate to see a bust cost them that much money...cause its a lot. I would have thought he would get like 8 million a year, slightly less than Cassel. Boy did I misjudge that one!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Ouch. Did NE even get that much for Cassel?

I say failbait.

Or, I will be taunted for years with the success of this rapscallion.


EDIT(addition):

They are who we thought they were!!11!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kluden »

No. The pats got a second round pick...but they couldn't afford to keep him. They had to franchise tag him for like $15 mill that year. So they got a great deal in a 2nd round pick, for a player that was absorbing a huge cap space. I vaguely remember the pats starting the negotiations for Cassel by telling teams they wanted 2 FIRST round picks for him. hahaha
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Let's not forget the side effect of Cassel trade talks making Jay Cutler get the butthurtz.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Wulfran »

I'll preface this by saying I still think the owners are a bunch of fuckups for pushing things as far as they did and creating this "pre-season frenzy", but its kind of fun. Some of this shit is making my head spin though...

- Kolb to AZ, well maybe it will work out for both teams but right now it looks like the Cards did pay a premium. Eagles fans should definately be happy: they got a good return on someone who didn't want to be a back up, so now they can sign someone like Vince Young...

- Will Donovan McNabb get any respect at last, in Minnesota? (I guess "no")

- WTF is Seattle doing? Is Pete Carroll stoned from bringing too much California weed with him? Tarvaris Jackson? Really?

- Fat Albert and Ochocinqo to the Evil Empire: WTF!!! are we in Bizarro world? ESPN is talking about all Belicheat's other reclamation projects but I really hope he gets egg on his face with Haynesworth. Ochocinqo, I kinda like him for what he does off the field and the way he has fun with shit, but I've never liked his teams.

- Will the Broncorpses and Miami just finish this damned Orton deal so we can get on with shit?

- When they traded away his favorite receiving target (Olsen) were the Bears trying to piss off Crybaby Cutler and get him to quit for good? Going for QBs in next year's draft? They hosted playoff games last year but they don't look like they want to this year...

- Why do so many media types think an upgrade at CB, which was already pretty damned good, will make the Jets will be The Team in the AFC, if they sign Nnamdi Asomugha? It doesn't really change much in the entire dynamic of the team. They will still be the same team the Steelers beat in the AFC championship, and the Patriots may have gotten a lot better if Ocho, Haynesworth or both pan out in any way...

- Kinda sad to see the Steelers cut Randle El: he just has a personality that you can't help but like and he did good things in spot duty last season... I wish him well. Not sure what to think of all the interest the Black and Gold are showing in Plaxico: he had (has?) talent and tools but his head seemed questionable. Wonder if the pruning on their O-line, getting rid of Adams (old and slow)and Starks (smart, eloquent but aways hurt) is paving the way for something here... yeah they grabbed a couple guys in the draft (including an old team mate of Maurkice Pouncey... wish they could have grabbed his twin!) but I wonder...

Edit for grammar, etc.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Sueven »

Asomugha to the Eagles! I'm excited but have no idea what the hell we plan to do with three high-level cornerbacks. I guess DRC just became the NFL's best nickel corner?

With the two new corners plus the addition of Jason Babin, the Eagles have a chance to be much-improved this year. Cole + Babin is a better pass-rushing tandem than we've had in awhile, and if they manage to generate any pressure, the talent in our secondary will make things tough on opposing teams. And the offense still has plenty of talent, assuming DeSean gets his ass in line eventually.

Nevertheless, we've still got some weak spots. I'm not confident in our run defense-- our linebackers are very shaky, Samuel and DRC can't tackle, and our DT rotation is not our strongest suit. On offense, Vick is injury-prone and it's very possible that the league catches up to him a bit after his performance last year. I'll feel a lot better if we get Vince Young in uniform. The guy is an immature baby, but he's got a Vick-like skillset and he's won almost 2/3 of the games he's started in the NFL. He could keep us running if Vick misses a few games.

On another subject: I actually like the Seahawks signing Tarvaris Jackson. Is he good? No. But he's not TERRIBLE, he's young-ish, and he's still got a little potential. Best case scenario, he could put together a few David Garrard style years. The Seahawks now have a few young QB's who are passable at worst and have the potential to be decent. They can spend this year seeing if any of them have long-term potential, and, if not, pursue a franchise QB next offseason. It's not like their other options were so hot-- Hasselbeck, McNabb, Orton, Kolb, Young? If they weren't sold on Kolb as a QB of the future and willing to pay a hefty price for him, this is probably the best move they could have made. I think it was a good call.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Wulfran »

Yeah I saw that the Eagles landed Asomugha and Young tonight when I was having supper. Young works as a back up, especially given his similarity in style to Vick... and his maturity (or lack thereof) may not be that big of a deal (I hope he learns from all the crap that happened down in Tennessee and becomes a better player/team mate/person as a result for his sake if nothing else). The panel on NFL network were thinking that Asante Samuel is going to be the odd man out in Philly though, because there is just too much money invested in all 3 of those big names at CB. Who knows? Maybe they can trade him for a linebacker or D-lineman... Biggest question in Eagle-land though is what is going to happen with Desean Jackson now? They get him on board and I think they win the division.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Bubba Grizz »

Eagles appear to be purchasing as much talent as they can. They just got Cullin Jenkins as well. The question is, will all this talent work well together or will they just be the Redskins in a different color uniform?
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kluden »

Really hard to compare them to the Redskins...because the redskins always go out and buy uber priced one hit wonders, or old bastards past their prime. The eagles got em young...well, Jenkins is 30 I think...but whatever. That's a huge loss to the Packers there. Clearly they did well after he got hurt last year, but he was a key player in the playoffs.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

I like what the Eagles have done although one of their coaches likened them to a "Dream Team". They're far from that.

As for the Cardinals, I'm glad Tim Hightower was finally traded/released/signed/whatever elsewhere. He was a hard worker but I didn't like his runing style and he fumbled like mad. This is Beanie's year to put up or shut up.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

Image

just sayin!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Boogahz »

Winnow wrote:Image

just sayin!
Yeah, I can't figure out how the Dodgers are above the Padres either
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Given their depressing financial landscape, I agree.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Dream team my ass! You still have an enormous bum at QB.
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Canelek
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Speaking to just the football side, I wouldn't call him a bum. But, dude is streaky as fuck. And as far ad "dream team", that means fuckall in football. They could easily win NFC East though. The other teams are meh.

Of course, NFC isnt really a real conference. They may as well have a DH. Pussies.

:)
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kluden »

it was preseason, against my steelers :)

He'll never win a superbowl. That much I'm willing to say about Vick. Never as a starter for a team. He may be on the bench of a superbowl team, but he won't be at the helm.
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Bubba Grizz
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Bubba Grizz »

Hey Winnow, I'm going to be at the game tonight so keep an eye out for me. I'll be wearing a Clay Matthews Jersey!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Don't forget to cut the nipples out Bubba!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

Bubba Grizz wrote:Hey Winnow, I'm going to be at the game tonight so keep an eye out for me. I'll be wearing a Clay Matthews Jersey!
What part of the stadium? I need more clues. All you Wisconsiners look alike!

I'd like a full report afterward on what you observe about Kolb, Beanie Wells and Ryan Williams. Thanks!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Bubba Grizz »

We were on the west side at around the 1 yard line in the first row of the upper ring. There are no bad seats in Lambeau Field. I thought Kolb looks alright but nothing spectacular. Wells looked great though. Don't know who Ryan Williams is though. Fitzgerald looked great. It was a pretty fun game even if it was preseason.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

Bubba Grizz wrote:We were on the west side at around the 1 yard line in the first row of the upper ring. There are no bad seats in Lambeau Field. I thought Kolb looks alright but nothing spectacular. Wells looked great though. Don't know who Ryan Williams is though. Fitzgerald looked great. It was a pretty fun game even if it was preseason.
Ryan Williams is the rookie RB that's now out for the season. He's the guy that stopped the game for awhile while they carted him off.

I sure hope Wells can get his act together. He's got tons of talent and size. He's the best stiff armer in the NFL. His OhioSu education leaves a lot to be desired upstairs but he's coming along. He must be taking some classes at ASU!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Winnow »

Winnow wrote:
I sure hope Wells can get his act together. He's got tons of talent and size. He's the best stiff armer in the NFL. His OhioSu education leaves a lot to be desired upstairs but he's coming along. He must be taking some classes at ASU!

I'm not joking about OhioSU athletes needing help. Terrelle Pryor scored a 7 on the Wonderlic. lol

Some other Wonderlic scores:

Frank Gore: 6
Vince Young: 6 and 16
Clay Matthews: 27
Michael Vick: 20
Ryan Leaf:27
Terell Suggs: 31 Go ASU!
Aaron Rogers: 35
Tim Tebow: 22
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Kluden
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Kluden »

Wow...that is hilarious, and telling of the future almost!
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

I think Marino was in the low teens. He turned out ok.

Still though, a retake is pretty silly! Obviously that test holds some weight or it wouldn't be administered. Seems like quick decision making is SORT OF important at the QB position. :)
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

Looks like neither team fared too well in that trade.
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Re: Even AZ Isn't That Stupid

Post by Canelek »

KOLBKOLBJOBLBBJOBLB

Not so much!
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