Cataclysm thread

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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Bubba Grizz »

Nope. My sub dies on Thursday this week. I am already preordered for RIFT.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Anyone here still playing? My guild just downed Heroic Nefarian in 10 man and about to clear out 3 easy bosses before going for Al'Akir, Council, Cho, and then Sinestra. Honestly, I couldn't play this game if I didn't raid I don't think. I think that is where the boredom comes from for some of you guys. This is by far the hardest raiding content I have ever attempted before. I did not play in classic, but some of my guild members cleared all or most of the classic raids and have told me that many of these fights are harder than anything ever before in WoW. Took us well over 200 attempts to knock out Heroic Nef so...
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by masteen »

WoW is now 100% raid or GTFO. I'm not sure how they managed it, but the Cata dungeons somehow manage to bore good players while simultaneously being too hard for the terribads.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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I play once or twice a month and only do questing and herbing.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Aabidano »

Came back, made it about ~3 weeks and got bored. They really missed the mark for the non-compulsive.

Having fun in Rift.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

For me, the dungeons lost a lot of their luster after the first wave of nerfs on them. At this point, between my gear and them being nerfed into the ground, they are no fun. My fiancee still finds ways to have fun...she has a shaman in our guild that she goes with to 2 man the heroics. I think they have cleared 4 or 5 now. I honestly play just to raid. I generally get on for raid nights and spend the rest of my time playing EQ, Black Ops, or just watching TV.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by masteen »

I honestly expect a huge dip in subs come May. By then it should be completely obvious to the casuals that there is nothing in the game for them. Then again, people ARE really, really, fucking dumb.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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masteen wrote:I honestly expect a huge dip in subs come May. By then it should be completely obvious to the casuals that there is nothing in the game for them. Then again, people ARE really, really, fucking dumb.
They'll just start another alt. That's always what they do.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Winnow »

The next wave of MMOs has taken forever to come out but Rift is finally starting to offer an alternative, Tera will continue that with the Asian MMO crowd (me!), and Guild Wars 2 will finally take a big slice of the pie from WoW once its released.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Aabidano »

Rift is squarely in WoWs' genre, unless GW2 departs a lot from GW I don't think it's a threat to WoW. Totally different target market.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Bubba Grizz »

I'm waiting for a free come back and play wow weekend so I can give all my money away. I really don't think I will come back to this game.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Boogahz »

I've been goofing around more than anything. Going through the new storylines for levelling after Cata has been interesting. I have only really done Heroics on my Hunter so far. I want to get my Prot Pally through some of the Cata dungeons, but it felt like I levelled so fast that I want more "practice" tanking. If people weren't such assholes towards people that are learning something in this game, I would have been doing them already. I've been on Khadgar (Horde) and Garona (Alliance). My availability has been so sporadic that I don't care to raid at all.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Patch 4.1 definitely makes me curious to try tanking again on my druid. They're basically giving us (back) a lot of our bear dmg. The great feral see-saw is tipping back in our favor, at least for the moment. Business as usual for Blizzard vs Feral. I've gone through this enough to know it's never going to last, but I'll enjoy it while I can.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by pyrella »

They need to release wow 2 and need to stop making expansions.

The combination of mechanics is fairly exhausted for any sense of originality within the game (which sees your old subscribers go bye bye)

Also as Cata showed, people raged at the new mechanics implementation that completely changed what kind of character you were, or how you played it. Make the drastic changes, and do it in a package people can swallow - a new game.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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pyrella wrote:Make the drastic changes, and do it in a package people can swallow - a new game.
Yep, it's all in managing expectations. When you yank the rug out from under someone who's doing something they obviously enjoy as they're paying you for it and try to force them into doing something else they walk away after a awhile.

Do the same thing but call it a new game and they aren't going to get (as) pissy.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I played for about 4 hours and had a hell of a lot of fun. I'm going to make a point of working more WoW into my gaming time. The feral changes are great, but I'm also still pissed they fucked us over so bad to begin with in Cata.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Also, the ability to see and participate in guild chat through the armory app is genius. Quite an amazing thing really.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Boogahz »

Figured it was coming soon, after it was put into the EQ2 app. It would be fun if more than a couple of us were online at a time. One drawback to a very small guild :P
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Fairweather Pure wrote:I played for about 4 hours and had a hell of a lot of fun. I'm going to make a point of working more WoW into my gaming time. The feral changes are great, but I'm also still pissed they fucked us over so bad to begin with in Cata.
They've screwed with\screwed up every class I've played "non-trivially", first shaman, then druid, later warlock.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Funkmasterr »

Yeah I was already leaning towards quitting when they completely changed the way druids work. I have zero intention of ever going back to this game, and most or all of the people I played it with have quit too.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Honestly, druids were only fucked up at first because of a bug, and have been absolutely amazing for the past 2 months or so. There was a bug where a lot of druids who had been tank specced prior to cata ended up keeping one of their talents, even though it was wiped out and that talent didn't even exist anymore. It gave, I think, 12% damage reduction as well as 6% bonus attack power. This made it so any druid that had this was not only the strongest tank in the game, but also could beat feral cats in dps on a lot of fights (as well as a lot of other dps classes). The big problem is that any druid that did not have this bug could do decent threat still, but ended up being one of the weakest tanks mitigation wise. Blizz did not even know the bug existed when they did their round of nerfs to the damage of all of our attacks...but figured out the problem soon after and gave us some of the damage back as well as increasing our bonus armor from talents. Since that time, I went from taking more dmg in our heroic raids than every other tank I knew, to taking the absolute least. I have 45.5k armor unbuffed (50k when raiding), while most warriors are lucky to hit 38k and DKs are sitting down at 33-35k. The only other tank that compares would be a paladin.

Anyway, last night I was pulling around 12k dps as a bear on heroic V&T, so interested to see what I'm capable of putting out.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Pretty much put my druid on the shelf when they borked them pre-BC and started playing my lock. Still wasn't worth playing when I quit WoW (the third time?) not long after WotLK came out.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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I think they designed the Cata dungeon encounter difficulty with too much of an eye for how they'd play at the end of the expansion once the player base had mudflated to gear levels similar to what we saw at the end of Wrath, but didn't focus on making them interesting or fun or rewarding enough to keep people running them.

The fact that they're having to essentially BRIBE tanks into entering the dungeon finder is a sure sign that people don't fucking like doing them. I remember a month into Cata, q times for DPS were OVER 40 FUCKING MINUTES, and a good 3 of every 5 groups were painful abortions that left the DPS with the deserter buff AND the awesome prospect of another 40 minute wait after that.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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masteen wrote:I think they designed the Cata dungeon encounter difficulty with too much of an eye for how they'd play at the end of the expansion once the player base had mudflated to gear levels similar to what we saw at the end of Wrath, but didn't focus on making them interesting or fun or rewarding enough to keep people running them.

The fact that they're having to essentially BRIBE tanks into entering the dungeon finder is a sure sign that people don't fucking like doing them. I remember a month into Wrath, q times for DPS were OVER 40 FUCKING MINUTES, and a good 3 of every 5 groups were painful abortions that left the DPS with the deserter buff AND the awesome prospect of another 40 minute wait after that.
Honestly, even with just full heroic dungeon + the rep rewards, the heroics are a complete joke. They were hard at first when people were running them with greens \ blues from questing, some were seriously overtuned, and some even bugged (I'm a troll druid tank, and the first boss in SFK used to be able to gib me with one of his abilities that was not suppose to kill), but my friends and I cleared pretty much every heroic within 4 or 5 days of cata's release.

In the current state, after all the nerfs and with the average gear levels being something like 345-350, the heroics are a joke. ZA and ZG are challenging, but they are not even as bad as the heroics were originally.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Cata heroics weren't all that hard even with quest shit for gear and not knowing the fights intimately. Now that they've been nerfed to death and people have gear, they're a joke. Like I said before: raid or GTFO.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Even raiding's a nerf. This "10 man has same gear as 25 man" shit ruined the larger raids and us old cunts don't have time to manage multiple 10 man raids, and even getting 1 solid group means you need 10 complete no-lifers or you need about 15 people to fill a 10 every week with spare tanks and spare heals that get the shits with being unneeded most of the time or rotated around.

If you had 2-3x 10s you could share the "spare" people around among them and likely most people get to raid every week that want to (there's always someone away), but that sounds more like a second job than entertainment to me.

I find dungeons quite challenging to PUG because it's a festival of muppets, if you can get to the end of one with the same 5 people that started it, that's quite an achievement. The actual content is trivial for old EQ players... but fuck me, some of these kids on wow can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Zaelath wrote:Even raiding's a nerf. This "10 man has same gear as 25 man" shit ruined the larger raids and us old cunts don't have time to manage multiple 10 man raids, and even getting 1 solid group means you need 10 complete no-lifers or you need about 15 people to fill a 10 every week with spare tanks and spare heals that get the shits with being unneeded most of the time or rotated around.

If you had 2-3x 10s you could share the "spare" people around among them and likely most people get to raid every week that want to (there's always someone away), but that sounds more like a second job than entertainment to me.

I find dungeons quite challenging to PUG because it's a festival of muppets, if you can get to the end of one with the same 5 people that started it, that's quite an achievement. The actual content is trivial for old EQ players... but fuck me, some of these kids on wow can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
You don't need people with no life to raid, you just need people who have pretty reliable schedules. I mean, we raid Tues-Thurs from 8PM - midnight CST, and are in the top 1% of all 10 man guilds. Sure, we have people missing from time to time, but RARELY is it more than one person. We basically have one true backup who gets to come in pretty regularly, and maybe once every month and a half or two months we will have to bring someone else as well. Generally, we have the same people every night, and all of them are badass players. Of course, I started my guild over a year ago and I have only finally gotten this perfect group together in the past few months.

I don't understand your problem with 10 man has the same gear as 25 man though. My guild was 25 man pre-cata, and honestly it was much easier to handle than my 10 man. In 25 man, you generally get every buff \ debuff you need no matter what, so you can just have backups and if people can't make it, or if someone's schedule changes, it is not a big deal. In 10, to completely maximize your healing \ damage, you have to balance classes to make sure you get those same buffs. If someone is missing, you cannot just bring in a random backup and make it work. It generally has to be a very specific group of classes \ specs that can take any given player's spot. On top of that, add in that 25 man raids are easier than 10 man in cata (with the exception of al'akir), and you can see why over 6% of 25 man guilds have downed heroic nef, while less than 1% of 10 man guilds have. Hell, more guilds have killed sinestra in 25 than have killed nef in 10.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Asheran Mojomaster wrote: I don't understand your problem with 10 man has the same gear as 25 man though. My guild was 25 man pre-cata, and honestly it was much easier to handle than my 10 man. In 25 man, you generally get every buff \ debuff you need no matter what, so you can just have backups and if people can't make it, or if someone's schedule changes, it is not a big deal. In 10, to completely maximize your healing \ damage, you have to balance classes to make sure you get those same buffs. If someone is missing, you cannot just bring in a random backup and make it work. It generally has to be a very specific group of classes \ specs that can take any given player's spot. On top of that, add in that 25 man raids are easier than 10 man in cata (with the exception of al'akir), and you can see why over 6% of 25 man guilds have downed heroic nef, while less than 1% of 10 man guilds have. Hell, more guilds have killed sinestra in 25 than have killed nef in 10.
I'll gift you heroic gear being the same, but "gearing up" in 10s is much easier than 25s if only because you have more room to stand, given most of the fights have a "don't stand near other people, now stack" mechanism.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Zaelath wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote: I don't understand your problem with 10 man has the same gear as 25 man though. My guild was 25 man pre-cata, and honestly it was much easier to handle than my 10 man. In 25 man, you generally get every buff \ debuff you need no matter what, so you can just have backups and if people can't make it, or if someone's schedule changes, it is not a big deal. In 10, to completely maximize your healing \ damage, you have to balance classes to make sure you get those same buffs. If someone is missing, you cannot just bring in a random backup and make it work. It generally has to be a very specific group of classes \ specs that can take any given player's spot. On top of that, add in that 25 man raids are easier than 10 man in cata (with the exception of al'akir), and you can see why over 6% of 25 man guilds have downed heroic nef, while less than 1% of 10 man guilds have. Hell, more guilds have killed sinestra in 25 than have killed nef in 10.
I'll gift you heroic gear being the same, but "gearing up" in 10s is much easier than 25s if only because you have more room to stand, given most of the fights have a "don't stand near other people, now stack" mechanism.
If people are failing because of spreading and stacking, then you have a bigger problem than what size raid you are in. Also, 10 man has this big added hurdle of bad luck = not ever getting certain pieces of gear. We killed omnitron and magmaw for the first time in december, and we have still not gotten a single leather bracer from magmaw, nor have we gotten the rogue dagger from omnitron. Our rogue and I are both using blue bracers, and our rogue uses a pvp main hand.

Even with both dropping the same gear, 25 man gears much much faster, simply because 25 tends to get all of the drops rotated around more often, and even when you get the same loot there is a better chance that more than one or two people can use it (except maybe tank gear and healing plate).
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Zaelath wrote:but fuck me, some of these kids on wow can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
The cool people now call those retards "Wrath babbys"
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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masteen wrote:
Zaelath wrote:but fuck me, some of these kids on wow can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
The cool people now call those retards "Wrath babbys"
Yeah, when my guild transferred to horde at the start of cata we had to get rid of two wrath babies. Both had killed heroic LK 10 man with us, so wrath really didn't have any fights we could do to see how lacking they really were. First one was a paladin tank that couldn't manage to interrupt anything on any fight, took forever to taunt, etc. Other was a disc priest who was an inscriptionist, but didn't even know his own glyphs...didn't know how to spec...couldn't play holy to save his life, even though it was super easy and overpowered as hell. Spent two weeks on nef with him wiping over and over because he would fail at healing himself and two others on a pillar, and if he made it through would be completely oom and never recover. Brought in a shaman (so went from a priest which, was the strongest healer at the time, to a shaman, which was the weakest) that hadn't raided since BC and was in almost all blue gear and downed him in one night.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Asheran Mojomaster wrote:went from a priest which, was the strongest healer at the time, to a shaman, which was the weakest
I think there's a lot of people that might argue with your theorycraft there.... but yes, some people are just shit :)
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Asheran Mojomaster wrote:we have still not gotten a single leather bracer from magmaw, nor have we gotten the rogue dagger from omnitron. Our rogue and I are both using blue bracers, and our rogue uses a pvp main hand.
This quote kind of makes me chuckle only because the difference between Omnotron dagger and PvP MH is 97 rating. Unless you're talking about having dropped Heroic Omnotron since back in Dec or whenever you said with no dagger, then I take it all back and say yeah, that sucks.

Recent patch has gotten me running more 5's but hating PvP. It seems like new PvE carrots pulled PvP bads out of the Arena queues and I float between Ok to Bad so if all the terrible PvPer's aren't queuing I'm just gonna keep losing!
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

Psyloche wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:we have still not gotten a single leather bracer from magmaw, nor have we gotten the rogue dagger from omnitron. Our rogue and I are both using blue bracers, and our rogue uses a pvp main hand.
This quote kind of makes me chuckle only because the difference between Omnotron dagger and PvP MH is 97 rating. Unless you're talking about having dropped Heroic Omnotron since back in Dec or whenever you said with no dagger, then I take it all back and say yeah, that sucks.

Recent patch has gotten me running more 5's but hating PvP. It seems like new PvE carrots pulled PvP bads out of the Arena queues and I float between Ok to Bad so if all the terrible PvPer's aren't queuing I'm just gonna keep losing!
Yeah, I know the PVP dagger is almost as good at the Omnotron one. The point was that 10 sucks for gearing because of the RNG with drops. I'm starting to think that the RNG in WoW isn't really that random, and somehow we are locking ourselves into certain drops. We dont get any rogue, druid, mage, DK tier pieces either. I have the only heroic tier chest we have gotten, and I believe our rogue has the legs...yet both of our paladins have 3 pieces of heroic tier for two specs, and one has 2 pieces for a third spec. Our backup ret paladin even has 3 pieces.
Zaelath wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:went from a priest which, was the strongest healer at the time, to a shaman, which was the weakest
I think there's a lot of people that might argue with your theorycraft there.... but yes, some people are just shit :)
Eh, at the time I am referring to, I don't think anyone with knowledge of the two classes would have that big of a problem with it. Holy paladins and priests were somewhat close together (both had their own strong points), but druids were decently behind (but viable), and shamans were complete crap. This was back when people were first killing the harder heroic bosses, and not bringing shamans at all because they could only do like 70% of the healing output of any of the other healers. This has been fixed since then, and now all of the classes are pretty close together, but it was pretty retarded early on.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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I did my first Heroics ever yesterday. I did 3 of them. The last one took 2.5 hours and a total of 13 people came and left during that time. Unreal. I did 33% of the dmg, the next closest was the ret pallie that stayed from the start as well and he had 17% of the dmg. He was terrible, but he had something that all the better geared players lacked: GUTS. The guy was like the "Rudy" of WoW. Eventually we got to the point where we had 4 out of 5 of us had never done the instance before on Heroic, and those people all stuck it out. The last few fights were epic and made all the frustration worth while. Very satisfying.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Animalor »

Fairweather Pure wrote:I did my first Heroics ever yesterday. I did 3 of them. The last one took 2.5 hours and a total of 13 people came and left during that time. Unreal. I did 33% of the dmg, the next closest was the ret pallie that stayed from the start as well and he had 17% of the dmg. He was terrible, but he had something that all the better geared players lacked: GUTS. The guy was like the "Rudy" of WoW. Eventually we got to the point where we had 4 out of 5 of us had never done the instance before on Heroic, and those people all stuck it out. The last few fights were epic and made all the frustration worth while. Very satisfying.
My biggest gripe when Cata launched were the people that were in it for the quick VP and JP and would leave after a wipe or two, throwing me back into a 45 minute queue.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Another thing I noticed after being gone for the past 4 months is that the city of Stormwind is alive with activity. The sheer variety of mounts, pets, and individual looks is absolutely refreshing for anyone that remembers the old days when everyone looked identical. All of the different weapon enchant effects and animated graphics for various gear sets makes everyone look unique, but beyond that, it makes everything come alive in a weird way. Even all the different feral colors and racial graphics create refreshing variety. They should've done that long ago IMO!
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Re: Cataclysm thread

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Since I'm a snob and only run with 4/5 and rarely 3/5 Guild Members/Friends in RDF, I don't run in to the 2-3 hour Heroics you're talking about. I've queued solo a few times when I was watching a movie and was just going to DPSnooze my way through. I've dropped a group or two that wiped terribly sometimes because frankly, it's just not worth my time to spend teaching a group of people I'll almost never see again. I feel bad for people in your situation, but my time > to me than your time.

Really though, I only ever dropped when people were abysmal. If I can auto attack on my Rogue for more than your DPS, there's a problem (that's not using SnD!). When people die too many times to "Don't stand in this shit mechanic", it's a problem. There really are certain thresholds of performance that people must meet in order for a group to win and it's just not worth my time if they don't appear to be doing it.

Just my thoughts on the dropping group during an RDF. Also, to try and limit how often people drop, look in Trade for people cause they will be less likely to do it if you're on the same server (but it doesn't mean they won't!)

Time is money, friend.
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Re: Cataclysm thread

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I can run with guildies whenever I want. However, they all out gear me so much and I don't want to be carried through Heroics. I want them to be difficult at first. I want to learn them the hard way. Eventually they will be a cake walk for me to, so I want to savor them as long as they present a challenge. Don't get me wrong, I've dropped groups in the past as well, but only when it's hopeless, not when I die once. Worse yet, when either the Healer or Tank decide to bail, the group is like a deck of cards.

Besides, absolutely nothing in this game sharpens your tanking skills like tanking a horrible PuG! After I know the encounters as DPS, I'll be back to tanking them again. DPSing is horribly dull IMO, but nice to mix it up once in awhile for sure.
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