Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

For discussion about Warhammer Online.
Locked
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27432
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by Winnow »

Making a new thread for this due to the length and images.

Perhaps this will help some decide if a Witch Elf is something they might like to play in Warhammer.

Here are some of the abilities and tactics I use in RvR. This is typically the sequence in which I use them so don't skip ahead!

Note: most of the damage points listed below scale. These figures are for a level 20 Witch Elf.

Image

After closing in on the battle, I use Shadow Prowler to cloak myself and then pick out my target. Only Witch Elves and Witch Hunters have this type of ability. I think Witch Elves us it more effectively with their high melee DPS while Witch Hunters' main attack is ranged. Popping up at point blank range and unloading an assload of DPS is the goal.

Image

Enfeebling strike is my opening move of choice. It's a 15 second DOT (an eternity in RvR) that hits the target with 30hps damage every second if the target is moving. It's glorious. People do not stand still in RvR...and if they do, I'll kill them anyway. Even if they stand still, this is a great opening move coming out of stealth with the 2 blood lust build up and 50% reduction in Action Point cost for ten seconds. This costs me zero Action Points to use.

Image

Fleet-Footed is my get-out-of-root/snare card. It's instant cast and also prevents me from being rooted/snared again for 10 seconds...plenty of time to kill a squishy caster that has root/snare abilities.

Image

When a Witch Elf pops out of hiding, they get targeted quickly so I tend to cast Enchanting Beauty most of the time. Taking 50% less damage from all the enemies, that I'm not focused on killing, buys me time to off my opponent and do some extra damage elsewhere. I can't say for sure how effective this is but I seem to live awhile with lots of people pounding on me.

Image

The last of my utility spells is Booby Trap. With some scenarios, siege weapons get used a lot. This little spell is nice to stick on one of them early in the battle on my way to the flag, etc. Don't use it much atm but might more in the future.

Image

After prepping my opponent, defeating snares/roots, and debuffing everyone else in the vicinity (if required), I get to work on my bread and butter damage abilities. I open this stage with Kiss of Death. It's an awesome dot with special anti healing benefits. This is one of the reasons Witch Elves are great healer killers. The main use of this spell is the chance to do do an extra 80hps of damage every time I make any attack...which leads to:

Image

Kiss of Doom is my first Path of Suffering Spec tactic. Combined with Kiss of Death above, it gives me a 50% chance to do 80hps of additional damage every single time I attack...and keep in mind, Witch Elves swing their daggers like mad (high DPS, low weapon delays) It's a passive ability so is always active. (if slotted)

Image

My next attack is another DOT. Envenomed Blade can stack with itself three times and is part of my main damage cycle. It adds damage to the runners that are already being hit by my opening Enfeeble Strike attack.

Image

Part of my damage cycle (which is really only two damage attacks and then my Blood Lust attack coming up next) Instant cast, good damage. Rinse, repeat after Envenomed Blade again.

Image

you'll notice Blood Lust points mentioned on a lot the abilities above. As I build those points up, I can use Ruthless Assault to unload more damage. The important thing to note here is that if I let the max 5 Blood Lust points build up, this ability costs me zero Action Points which is huge because you're usually low on those by the time this builds up to 5. If the target is low enough and I think I can finish them off, I'll launch this earlier if I have the Action Points.

If you count up all the Blood Lusts, you'll notice that I have 5 built up by the time I get to this attack from my opening move to this point: (Enfeeble 2, Kiss of Death 1, Envenomed 1, Slice 1)

Remember I have a 50% change to do 80hps each attack and this ability alone is six attacks.

Image

Lastly, for that poor caster/healer that might be running after being hit with a 15 second movement DOT and up to three 9 second stacked Envenomed Blade DOTs, I can chuck a dagger at them as they run and snare them to get a few more whacks in to finish the job faster.


----------

Hope that gives you and idea of how the Witch Elf operates. You're pretty much going to toast anyone one on one although heavily armored tanks can be a bitch. We have an agony ability which ignores AC if combined with the "ignore position" ability, allowing you not to have to use this powerful attack from behind but I'm typically not set up for that as I'm going after casters and fruity bow and gun shooters.

The down side is you'll die a lot. Doing the above will get you your kill almost always but then you're AC is low and people really don't want you alive very long with your nasty DPS so you go down. It's amazing though how much havok a Witch Elf can cause once they pop out of hiding. Besides knocking out a healer or big time damage caster, you draw a lot of attention which allows your allies to get some extra shots in. Someone's got to kill you besides the target you picked so that takes another person out of the action and usually multiple people.

Witch Elves are also not bad at capturing flags. I grabbed my first one and invised thinking I'd have an easy run back to camp with it. Little did I know that I had a huge blue blowtorch of a light shining up into the sky above me so it didn't matter if I was invisible or not. I still made it back!

-----------

Note on PvE: you simply destroy any target up to five levels above you, non stop. Witch Elves are an Excellent PvE class. (use throwing dagger to pull)

For level grinding, find +5 mobs that don't run. Runners are OK but it's less messy with things like Spiders, Boars, Nurglings, etc.

Levels 16-18,: kill level 20-22 Spiders and Zombie looking things just inside Talabecland from the Troll Country Zone (near Taalside)

Levels 19-20: kill level 23-24 boards across the bridge and just south of Witch's Hollow (there's a Rally Master for binding and a Flight Master nearby)

Once you get Kiss of Doom at level 17 (if you put full points in the Path of Suffering Route), the killing speed really picks up.

Edit: Witch Elves also make great defenders. Playing wingman to a Flag Runner or defending your home base, you're pretty effective at taking out the sneaky people. You aren't going to do much against a full assault though.
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by miir »

There is so much actual content in this game that grinding is probably the most boring and pointless way to level.




But then again, some people get enjoyment from mindless repetition.




I've got a level 14 Archmage that has leveled exclusively on RvR XP.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Kwonryu DragonFist
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5391
Joined: July 12, 2002, 6:48 am

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by Kwonryu DragonFist »

Nice info Winny!

Gob Shammy or Chaos Marauder / Chosen is more to my liking though! :)
User avatar
Aardor
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 23, 2002, 12:32 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Phoenix612
Location: Allentown, PA

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by Aardor »

Pretty good info. However, this is wrong:
I think Witch Elves us it more effectively with their high melee DPS while Witch Hunters' main attack is ranged.
Witch Hunters main attacks are all melee, with their executes (things that require you to build up points) being short ranged (slightly larger than melee) attacked. The abilities of Witch Elves vs Witch Hunters are almost exactly the same, with some nuanced differences, and you obtaining the skills at different levels.

Examples:
  • Shadow Prowler is the exact same as Incognito
  • Enfeebling Strike is the exact same as Sudden Accusation
  • Fleet-Footed is the exact same as Sigil of Sigmar
  • Enchanting Beauty is the same as Get Thee Behind Me!
  • Booby Trap is the exact same as uh Booby Trap
and the list goes on...
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by miir »

Every class has a mirror class on the opposite side... well except for those classes whose mirror didn't quite make it in game for release.
Booby Trap is the exact same as uh Booby Trap
<3 Boobies
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27432
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by Winnow »

Aardor wrote: Examples:
  • Shadow Prowler is the exact same as Incognito
  • Enfeebling Strike is the exact same as Sudden Accusation
  • Fleet-Footed is the exact same as Sigil of Sigmar
  • Enchanting Beauty is the same as Get Thee Behind Me!
  • Booby Trap is the exact same as uh Booby Trap
and the list goes on...

I'm going to start calling you Mr Obvious. Witch Hunter is the mirror class to Witch Elves. You can do that with any class on each side. There are differences though. If you want to know them. mirror classes aren't actually exact mirrors in play styles.
WE doesn't have the need to spam Frenzy due the Kiss system possibly proc'ing on ALL hits. It's the WH who is currently forced into this build if they want to be remotely competitive with the WE in terms of damage.

And yes, damage is the main thing for WH/WE(I hope nobody wants to argue that point). No, this gap doesn't really get better in later tiers. It's true that WH becomes better at taking out healers in t3 - t4, but WE's damage will still be leaps and bounds ahead of WH. The only defensive edge WH has over WE is Repel Blasphemy. But WE in return gets much more utility(AOE knockdown for example).

If people bothered playing both classes(which I understand is not everyone), there's really not much argument to be made. I'd gladly trade my WH's Flowing Accusation for my WE's Kiss system any time of the day.
WH get 2 different debuffs. One is a 9 point deep talent (10 to get it) that reduces healing on the target by 50% (melee range), and one is a bullet we all get which reduces healing done (but not to, thus for use on the healer themselves) at level 35. We get zip before then.

The reason you see so much crying on the WH forums is a combination of feeling outshined by our rival mirror class (that's you), theorycraft math as to the damage potential of kisses versus the damage potential of bullets, and the lack of use of DoT damage versus high burst damage for killing most caster classes in t2 and t3, where most WH are atm. Time will tell if t4 serves differently but if things scale as they have been it will not, and it is hardly a consolation to those who feel outclassed at the moment to tell them "you might be better when you gain levels / get noticed by the developers / etc"

This is not to say WH are useless or broken. They serve as a melee support role as things currently stand; aiding in the last bit of dps for a frontline target, smacking a magus that got a little too far ahead of his lines, etc and in that role we serve just peachy. But we do not have the damage potential of a WE. Not in the short term, quick burst style of combat, not in the long term sustained style combat. If race restrictions were removed and anyone could group with anyone, I'd want a WE on my side rather than a WH because of what each class can currently bring to the combat table. And I am a WH.
Even for mirror classes, the styles are different. WH's aren't backline assassins like WE, or don't do it nearly as well but they do other things better. Sorceress outshines BW in AOE while BW is the best at taking out individual targets. Warhammer did a great job in throwing in some variety in the classes.

------

I could write a haiku a day about what a dick miir is.

There is a shitload of content in Warhammer. I chose to do the Empire zones even though I'm an elf after I got to tier 2. You'd have to create three characters for the Destruction side alone if you wanted to hit all the content and 6 altogether (Order/Destruction) to hit all zones as you'd XP yourself out of tiers otherwise.

I like RvR as well but now that I can also get into tier 3 RvR scenarios, I'm constantly queued in 9 (NINE) scenarios and still can't get in one all night many times. When I do get in, usually only Phoenix Gate runs, I jump right in. I've also maxed out my INF all the way up to Chapter 12 on Public Quests. When my guild logs on, I go help take targets in RvR or help on other PQs.

dick
User avatar
Aardor
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 23, 2002, 12:32 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Phoenix612
Location: Allentown, PA

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by Aardor »

And I'll start calling you Mr. Incorrect Information, No reading comprehension.

You stated something that was wrong about Witch Hunters (their main attack is ranged, completely incorrect), I explained why you were wrong, and then went on to explain the classes were very similar, with examples. I never stated the classes were exactly the same.
WH's aren't backline assassins like WE, or don't do it nearly as well but they do other things better.
They do it about as well, just differently.

Those quotes you posted contain a bit of useful info, however they were not from the perspective of a t4 WH. Witch Hunters suffer in t3 because they do not get some of their best skills till the end of t3 due to lack of career mastery points and when they obtain skills. T4 WH vs WE is closer (though the general consensus is that WE are still better).

At level 20, what is your renown rank?
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Warhammer - Witch Elf RvR

Post by miir »

Aardor wrote:At level 20, what is your renown rank?
Only 11
:)
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
Locked