Waterboarding is torture and anyone who thinks otherwise is

[Nick]

willfully ignorant.

Discuss.

[Fash]

I agree it's torture, but I still think we should do it. How's that?

[Nick]

Why?

[Fash]

More importantly, why not? It's still infinitely better treatment than what some of our soldiers get when they're captured (or at walter reed, zing!)

If the interrogator thinks it's necessary or that it might help an investigation, I'm not going to stop them over a vague definition. I don't think it should be used often, or lightly, but I don't agree with removing it from the arsenal.

[laneela]

Huh?

[Nick]

More importantly, why not? It's still infinitely better treatment than what some of our soldiers get when they're captured (or at walter reed, zing!)

If the interrogator thinks it's necessary or that it might help an investigation, I'm not going to stop them over a vague definition. I don't think it should be used often, or lightly, but I don't agree with removing it from the arsenal.

More importantly, why not? What? Are you fucking serious?

Here's why not. Because waterboarding people is bad.

After that basic fact, which effectively supports the basic assumption that the American nature is bad, we don't happen to live in the fucking dark ages where the Sheriff of Nottingham (the US) is able to torture anyone it fucking feels like in the unlikely (more often than not) offchance that the US is in any actual danger.

Which it isn't, especially in comparison to the danger those who happen to get caught up in the CIA washingmachine clusterfuck waterboard 24 fantasy world some of you idiots seem to live in.

The "arsenal" which has resulted in Guantanamo bay and Abu Ghraib, isn't worthy of criticism, as long as some redneck has a "hunch" that the USA is about to be WMD'd into oblivion?

People like you seem to live in really bad B Movie "The Rock" fantasy realities. It's embarrassing.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

More importantly, why not? It's still infinitely better treatment than what some of our soldiers get when they're captured (or at walter reed, zing!)

If the interrogator thinks it's necessary or that it might help an investigation, I'm not going to stop them over a vague definition. I don't think it should be used often, or lightly, but I don't agree with removing it from the arsenal.

More importantly, why not? What? Are you fucking serious?

Here's why not. Because waterboarding people is bad.

After that basic fact, which effectively supports the basic assumption that the American nature is bad, we don't happen to live in the fucking dark ages where the Sheriff of Nottingham (the US) is able to torture anyone it fucking feels like in the unlikely (more often than not) offchance that the US is in any actual danger.

Which it isn't, especially in comparison to the danger those who happen to get caught up in the CIA washingmachine clusterfuck waterboard 24 fantasy world some of you idiots seem to live in.

The "arsenal" which has resulted in Guantanamo bay and Abu Ghraib, isn't worthy of criticism, as long as some redneck has a "hunch" that the USA is about to be WMD'd into oblivion?

People like you seem to live in really bad B Movie "The Rock" fantasy realities. It's embarrassing.

There you go again. Only your opinion can be correct.


I can see how torture might be an effective way to get information from a prisoner. I don't have a problem with it.

[Nick]

You and your ilk are savage neanderthals who should shut the fuck up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

You and your ilk are savage neanderthals who should shut the fuck up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

Sounds horrific. Since Nationalism is now considered some kind of bad thing these days, I bet it would work more now than ever before.

[Fash]

People like you seem to live in really bad B Movie "The Rock" fantasy realities. It's embarrassing.

One of us certainly lives in a fantasy reality... It's you, though. You seem to think the world is all flowers and sunshine.

Whether or not you feel that the US has brought upon itself any hatred it receives, the fact is that we are threatened (economically, technologically, and militarily) and must act to protect ourselves.

You do realize they only waterboarded like 3 people, right?... Does that sound like excess to you? Why do you care, are you looking at the Al Qaeda brochure and this is a deal breaker or something?

[Fash]

You and your ilk are savage neanderthals who should shut the fuck up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

That's some terrible shit... On the other hand, I wonder how much fun it is to be surprised by an IED. I'll take some fake drowning plz.

[Fairweather Pure]

It isn't fake drowning. It is actual drowning. Water moves up your respitory tract instead of down it like a normal drowning. The torture is stopped just prior to actually entering the lungs. The primal mental mechinisim is triggered and the body and mind react accordingly.

Waterboarding dosen't even work. After a session, a prisoner will tell you anything they think you want to hear in order to make it stop. That is not what you want out of a person you are trying to extract information. People that have been through the experiance said they would sell out their own children in order to get the torture to stop. Now imagine doing it to someone who actually does not know anything. If the US did this to a single person, we are totally in the wrong and people should be held accountable.

It is important for a country to uphold the laws of the Geneva convention and lead by example. You do not stoop to the lows of your enemies, especially in Iraq where that was one of the (amended) reasons we invaded the country to begin with. We got rid of a dictator who tortured his people.

On a side note, Abu Ghraib prison is a stain on our country that I don't feel will be washed away for a very long time. We were the Nazis. We were responsible for some sick and embarrassing stuff that makes me shake my head in disgust and shame. Not nearly enough heads have rolled over that one. Only low rank cannon fodder took the blame for that disaster.

[Winnow]

We were the Nazis.

You just lost your argument.

[Gzette]

Kinda of old news, but it was never brought up as far as I know and pertains to this argument.

Oops waterboarding came from China and doesn't work that well

I will say that I think it is a bad thing that we torture. I find it undermines our diplomatic position when dealing with hostile or suspected terrorist nations as well as our standing in world opinion. It appeals to our enemies' base distrust of the U.S. I always believed that the U.S. was above this. And I think it was prior to Mr. Bush's reign of fear and paranoia.

The fact that we lifted our methods from Maoist China should be enough to discredit any argument for torture.

[Toshira]

It's still infinitely better treatment than what some of our soldiers get when they're captured (or at walter reed, zing!)

I lol'd =p

[Winnow]

Come on. Everyone's gotten water up their nose or had liquid go down the wrong pipe when taking a drink. You didn't immediately start telling anyone within earshot your deepest secrets did you?

[Acies]

Likely because it was an accident and you had the power to stop the flow of water (or soda, beer, whathaveyou) and cough it out.

If you are waterboarded, you are strapped down and cannot move, and cannot make it stop.

[Sajko]

Some of you guys are just dumb as fuck.

[masteen]

Torture doesn't work. We should pump these guys for info using standard interrogation and then just put bullets in their heads. A .308 shell costs about two bucks, but the cost of sorting the truth from the lies once you break a man costs a fuckload more.

I know everyone wants to improve our intelligence apparatus, but keeping Achmed-the-out-of-work-bricklayer-recruited-by-Al-Qaeda captive for a decade isn't really going to help us do that. These guys have been out of the loop so long that they are worthless as intel assets.

[Gzette]

We should pump these guys for info using standard interrogation and then just put bullets in their heads.

Very enlightened

[masteen]

I make no claims to enlightenment, just pragmatism. The reality is most of the guys in Gitmo will never be released. So, life in a Hellish military prison on the ass end of Cuba, or a bullet in the head? Personally, I'd pick the bullet, and I'm pretty sure that those guys convinced that there are 70 virgins waiting for them in the afterlife would as well.