Presidential Candidates, Their Views, and Money

Post by **Sylvus** » April 30, 2008, 5:14 pm

This thread came about because Kilmoll suggested a number of position that Barack Obama supports, and he wondered where the money for these programs would come from. I would like to start a lively discussion about just how different our actual, viable choices for president are.

I'm using Kilmoll's site to compare Obama's stances to McCain's stances. Seriously, does Hillary even need to be brought into this discussion? If we think it's valuable to do so, I can write it up for her as well. But at this point, the vocal majority of this board seem to be either pro-Obama or pro-McCain (or should I call that anti-Obama?), and literally 0 names pop into my head for people that I know on this board who seem to think Hillary is the choice for them.

Since the wording appears to be a bit different between the two questionnaires, I'm going to number the things Kilmoll pointed out about Obama for easy reference. If he would like me to add to this list, please let me know.

Obama's Vote Smart Page wrote:

Increase state funds for programs which rehabilitate and educate inmates during and after their prison sentences.

Provide funding for military-style "boot camps" for first-time juvenile felons.

Increase funding for state job-training programs that re-train displaced workers or teach skills needed in today's job market.

Increase state funds for professional development of public school teachers and administrators.

Favor charter schools where independent groups receive state authorization and funding to establish new schools.

Increase state funds for school construction and facility maintenance.

Fund public school education in Illinois by increasing certain state taxes and decreasing local property taxes.

Provide state-funded tuition and fees to any Illinois student who attends a public college or university as long as they maintain a B average.

Provide funding for recycling programs in Illinois.

Support state funded efforts to decrease erosion and make other improvements along the Illinois River.

Provide tax incentives to small businesses who provide health care to their employees.

Provide health care to uninsured children by expanding Medicaid.

Use state funds to continue some Medicaid coverage for legal immigrants.

Increase state funding for programs to prevent teen pregnancy.

Increase state funds to provide child care to children in low-income working families.

Increase state funding for Head Start in order to serve additional children and/or increase services from a half to a full day.

Increase state funding for community centers and other social agencies in areas with at-risk youth.

Support state funding of programs for at-risk youth such as guaranteed college loans and job training and placement.

Support state-funded loans for facilities seeking to provide child care for welfare recipients.

Here is the list of "similar" things I culled from McCain's page. Keep in mind that the wording is different on some of the things, and the focus is somewhat different since Obama's questionnaire appears to have been more at the Illinois level than the national level.

McCain's Vote Smart Page wrote:

Impose "truth in sentencing" for violent criminals so they serve full sentences with no chance of parole.

Support programs to provide prison inmates with vocational and job-related skills and job-placement assistance when released.

Support programs to provide prison inmates with drug and alcohol addiction treatment.

Support programs that provide job training and placement services for at-risk youth.

Minors accused of a violent crime should be prosecuted as adults.

Support mandatory jail sentences for selling illegal drugs.

Expand federally sponsored drug education and drug treatment programs.

Increase border security to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the United States.

Allow teachers and professionals to receive authorization and funding to establish charter schools.

Increase funding for block grants to states to aid in the hiring of additional teachers.

Increase funding for school capital improvements (e.g. buildings, infrastructure, technology).

Increase funding of programs such as Pell grants and Stafford loans to help students pay for college.

Support federal tax incentives to help families save for college.

Increase funding for national job-training programs that re-train displaced workers or teach skills needed in today's job market.

Provide tax credits or grants to businesses that offer child care services to employees.

Support expanding prescription drug coverage under Medicare.

Offer tax credits to individuals and small businesses to offset the cost of insurance coverage.

Relax restrictions barring legal immigrants from using social programs (e.g. public housing, food stamps).

Aid should be granted to countries when extraordinary circumstances cause disaster and threaten civilian lives.

Aid should be granted to countries when it is in the security interests of the United States.

Increase funding for child care programs.

Support housing assistance for low-income families.

Does it really look like there's that big of a difference in government-funded programs that our two choices support?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » April 30, 2008, 5:24 pm

Sylvus wrote: Does it really look like there's that big of a difference in government-funded programs that our two choices support?

Not real big, no. I don't care that much for McCain, he is wishy-washy at best and I can't say I'm real confident he even knows what he believes anymore because he's been trying so hard to stay in bed w/ the republican party. I just dislike Obama enough to vote for McCain in hopes of doing my part to keep him out of office.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 1, 2008, 10:55 am

I thought the US lost the War On Drugs.
Didn't McCain get that memo?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 1, 2008, 12:04 pm

McCain wrote:Minors accused of a violent crime should be prosecuted as adults.

Also, OH NOES DRUGS.

Yeah, McCain sure is the best choice for US President yessirreeebob.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 1, 2008, 12:09 pm

Minors commiting violent crimes should be treated like adults. Great idea.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 1, 2008, 1:41 pm

Nick wrote:
McCain wrote:Minors accused of a violent crime should be prosecuted as adults.
Yeah, McCain sure is the best choice for US President yessirreeebob.

I'm not a McCain supporter, but I kind of agree with the above.. It was different years ago when kids under 18 didn't exploit the law because they knew they were basically immune. Now that they do, I think it's an outdated policy. At the least it needs to be revised and lowered by quite a bit. Kids grow up much faster these days. 10 years ago you didn't have 3rd grade boys forcing fellow female classmates to give them oral sex in class.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 1, 2008, 2:02 pm

10 years ago you didn't have 3rd grade boys forcing fellow female classmates to give them oral sex in class.

Link?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 1, 2008, 2:10 pm

I showed my underwear to a chick in 1st grade during PE, I think we were playing 4-square. Another classmate told on me, and I got sent to the principal's office.

Daboohk · Post by **Daboohk** » May 1, 2008, 3:24 pm

Sueven wrote:
10 years ago you didn't have 3rd grade boys forcing fellow female classmates to give them oral sex in class.
Link?

Pinellas Park Elementary. March 2003.

According to state records, a male student in Dale Snyder's third-grade classroom forced a female student to perform oral sex on him under a desk. At least nine other students watched.

Snyder failed to properly supervise his class, the state complaint alleges, because he was playing computer games.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/ ... 474588.ece

miir · Post by **miir** » May 2, 2008, 8:25 am

I knew that was gonna be a story from Florida even before I saw the link

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 2, 2008, 11:10 am

Trying children as adults is fundamentally idiotic, especially given the fucked up prison system you guys have.

Do you really even want to start defending such a bloody idiotic argument Mid?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 2, 2008, 11:36 am

Nick wrote:Trying children as adults is fundamentally idiotic, especially given the fucked up prison system you guys have.

Do you really even want to start defending such a bloody idiotic argument Mid?

Right, because a 15 year old kid doesn't know that he isn't supposed to kill someone. Next you're gonna tell me that it's not his fault, he just saw it on GTA and his young impressionable mind didn't know better.

You scare me sometimes.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » May 2, 2008, 11:58 am

Nick wrote:Trying children as adults is fundamentally idiotic, especially given the fucked up prison system you guys have.

Do you really even want to start defending such a bloody idiotic argument Mid?

why don't you explain why it's fundamentally idiotic and why our prison system is fucked up

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 2, 2008, 12:06 pm

*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Nick wrote:Trying children as adults is fundamentally idiotic, especially given the fucked up prison system you guys have.

Do you really even want to start defending such a bloody idiotic argument Mid?
why don't you explain why it's fundamentally idiotic and why our prison system is fucked up

Two funny things in a week!

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » May 2, 2008, 12:17 pm

i think everyone in prison should just be set on fire

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » May 2, 2008, 4:00 pm

*~*stragi*~* wrote:i think everyone in prison should just be set on fire

You can give a man a fire, and keep him warm for a day. Or, you can set a man on fire, and keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 2, 2008, 4:10 pm

Was that cut and paste? I could understand it!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 2, 2008, 4:26 pm

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/ ... 474588.ece

Fucked up.

Guys, there's no question that behavior is modeled. Third graders don't understand what it means to force someone to perform oral sex in absence of modeling. Whether it comes from his asshole dad or grand theft auto, it comes from somewhere.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 2, 2008, 4:32 pm

Sueven wrote:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/ ... 474588.ece
Fucked up.

Guys, there's no question that behavior is modeled. Third graders don't understand what it means to force someone to perform oral sex in absence of modeling. Whether it comes from his asshole dad or grand theft auto, it comes from somewhere.

The root of the cause is the parents 100% of the time (even if he learned it from a game, they should have been there to talk to him about the difference between the game and RL.) I was always able to play whatever video games I wanted/watch whatever movies I wanted when I was younger and even at age 6 I knew better because my parents weren't worthless deadbeat fuckstains and taught me right from wrong.

Either the parents are unfit and the kids should be placed with someone who knows how to be a parent, or the kids are just unfit for society and should be euthanized to prevent them from further damaging society.

I have no time for weak people.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 2, 2008, 4:48 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:The root of the cause is the parents 100% of the time (even if he learned it from a game, they should have been there to talk to him about the difference between the game and RL.) I was always able to play whatever video games I wanted/watch whatever movies I wanted when I was younger and even at age 6 I knew better because my parents weren't worthless deadbeat fuckstains and taught me right from wrong.

DId they?

Funkmasterr wrote:First of all, whoever decided there needs to be designated parking spots for expecting mothers should be shot.. I think the generations of mothers before this ridiculous idea did just fine. I also think there are far too many handycap spots, and that doctors are too quick to hand out handycap parking privileges to people because they are disgusting, fat, worthless pieces of life. I swear at least 50% of people I see parking in handycap spots have nothing wrong with them besides being fat, and as far as I am concerned, they need to walk from a far spot more than anyone else..

On the topic of the carts, I return mine. Just the other night I was parked in my car in the lot at cub waiting for a friend, and someone just let theirs sit. After a few seconds I hear a thump, which was the cart hitting my car. I went over to the guy, who hadn't pulled away yet, opened his car door, pulled him out, spit in his face, and screamed at him for about 5 minutes. My car was not scratched, otherwise it's likely I would have caved his skull in right then and there. Leaving them sit around to scratch up peoples cars is so fucking rude and out of line that I just do not have it in me to control myself when this type of thing happens.

You seem like you're one Grand Theft Auto hooker-stomp away from being part of the trenchcoat mafia. Either that or you're an internet poseur douchebag. Either way, your folks could have done a better job.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 2, 2008, 5:41 pm

Funk wrote:Either the parents are unfit and the kids should be placed with someone who knows how to be a parent

Do you think that there are enough high-quality parents out there to willingly take in all the kids born of worthless deadbeat fuckstain parents?

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » May 2, 2008, 7:09 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:The root of the cause is the parents 100% of the time (even if he learned it from a game, they should have been there to talk to him about the difference between the game and RL.) I was always able to play whatever video games I wanted/watch whatever movies I wanted when I was younger and even at age 6 I knew better because my parents weren't worthless deadbeat fuckstains and taught me right from wrong.
DId they?

Funkmasterr wrote:First of all, whoever decided there needs to be designated parking spots for expecting mothers should be shot.. I think the generations of mothers before this ridiculous idea did just fine. I also think there are far too many handycap spots, and that doctors are too quick to hand out handycap parking privileges to people because they are disgusting, fat, worthless pieces of life. I swear at least 50% of people I see parking in handycap spots have nothing wrong with them besides being fat, and as far as I am concerned, they need to walk from a far spot more than anyone else..

On the topic of the carts, I return mine. Just the other night I was parked in my car in the lot at cub waiting for a friend, and someone just let theirs sit. After a few seconds I hear a thump, which was the cart hitting my car. I went over to the guy, who hadn't pulled away yet, opened his car door, pulled him out, spit in his face, and screamed at him for about 5 minutes. My car was not scratched, otherwise it's likely I would have caved his skull in right then and there. Leaving them sit around to scratch up peoples cars is so fucking rude and out of line that I just do not have it in me to control myself when this type of thing happens.
You seem like you're one Grand Theft Auto hooker-stomp away from being part of the trenchcoat mafia. Either that or you're an internet poseur douchebag. Either way, your folks could have done a better job.

if this was nba jam for the snes the announcer would have just said "razzle dazzle"

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 3, 2008, 4:41 am

Sylvus wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:The root of the cause is the parents 100% of the time (even if he learned it from a game, they should have been there to talk to him about the difference between the game and RL.) I was always able to play whatever video games I wanted/watch whatever movies I wanted when I was younger and even at age 6 I knew better because my parents weren't worthless deadbeat fuckstains and taught me right from wrong.
DId they?

Funkmasterr wrote:First of all, whoever decided there needs to be designated parking spots for expecting mothers should be shot.. I think the generations of mothers before this ridiculous idea did just fine. I also think there are far too many handycap spots, and that doctors are too quick to hand out handycap parking privileges to people because they are disgusting, fat, worthless pieces of life. I swear at least 50% of people I see parking in handycap spots have nothing wrong with them besides being fat, and as far as I am concerned, they need to walk from a far spot more than anyone else..

On the topic of the carts, I return mine. Just the other night I was parked in my car in the lot at cub waiting for a friend, and someone just let theirs sit. After a few seconds I hear a thump, which was the cart hitting my car. I went over to the guy, who hadn't pulled away yet, opened his car door, pulled him out, spit in his face, and screamed at him for about 5 minutes. My car was not scratched, otherwise it's likely I would have caved his skull in right then and there. Leaving them sit around to scratch up peoples cars is so fucking rude and out of line that I just do not have it in me to control myself when this type of thing happens.
You seem like you're one Grand Theft Auto hooker-stomp away from being part of the trenchcoat mafia. Either that or you're an internet poseur douchebag. Either way, your folks could have done a better job.

Oh isn't that cute, he turns something that has nothing to do with me into something about me, that's new!

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 3, 2008, 4:44 am

Sueven wrote:
Funk wrote:Either the parents are unfit and the kids should be placed with someone who knows how to be a parent
Do you think that there are enough high-quality parents out there to willingly take in all the kids born of worthless deadbeat fuckstain parents?

guess that only leaves one option then

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 3, 2008, 10:39 am

At what point did you start lapsing into these bouts of living in some sort of warped and degrading fantasy world?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 3, 2008, 10:44 am

Funk wrote:guess that only leaves one option then

Which would be to euthanize good kids born to shitty parents if no placement with good parents is possible?

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » May 3, 2008, 12:13 pm

So instead of accepting that Sylvus just pasted one of your posts proving you didn't learn right from wrong, you ignore it and continue on your diatribe that 'worthless deadbeat fuckstain' parents are at fault. Priceless!

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 3, 2008, 12:20 pm

Kaldaur wrote:So instead of accepting that Sylvus just pasted one of your posts proving you didn't learn right from wrong, you ignore it and continue on your diatribe that 'worthless deadbeat fuckstain' parents are at fault. Priceless!

Yeah I didn't learn right from wrong. I don't tolerate lazy, rude disrespectful people. I might go about dealing with the situation in a way you don't agree with but that hardly means anything.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 3, 2008, 12:49 pm

Except of course that it completely undermines your entire point.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 3, 2008, 7:16 pm

Sticking car thieves, potheads, and other non-violent offenders in the same prisons as the murderers, rapists, and gang-bangers isn't exactly a great system.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 3, 2008, 7:35 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I don't tolerate lazy...people.

You're one of the more lazier members of this fine online community. You let it be known on a nearly daily basis.

Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah I didn't learn right from wrong.

You're absolutely right. Pounding someone's skull into the pavement for scratching your oh so precious automobile is not the right thing to do.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 3, 2008, 8:53 pm

Nick wrote:Except of course that it completely undermines your entire point.

Except no it doesn't which was the point of my last post, but I understand that must have went over your head.

My parents didn't do a bad job parenting me because I put a lazy, inconsiderate asshole in his place for causing damage to MY PROPERTY because he was a lazy fuck. Pretty simple.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » May 4, 2008, 3:31 am

Hahahaha

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » May 5, 2008, 6:32 am

"HE ALMOST SCRATCHED MY HONDA ACCORD SO I BEAT THAT NIGGER INTO THE GROUND."

"Kids that are born into shitty families and that don't get taught right from wrong should be euthanized"

Did I get this right? Can I do the honors?

I mean, I know it's paraphrased and all... and it's really the sum of about 3 of your posts... but since when do we properly quote here?!

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » May 5, 2008, 1:01 pm

masteen wrote:Sticking car thieves, potheads, and other non-violent offenders in the same prisons as the murderers, rapists, and gang-bangers isn't exactly a great system.

car theives should have their hands chopped off

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 5, 2008, 1:06 pm

Bagar- wrote:"HE ALMOST SCRATCHED MY HONDA ACCORD SO I BEAT THAT NIGGER INTO THE GROUND."

"Kids that are born into shitty families and that don't get taught right from wrong should be euthanized"

Did I get this right? Can I do the honors?

I mean, I know it's paraphrased and all... and it's really the sum of about 3 of your posts... but since when do we properly quote here?!

Wait, you're still posting?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 5, 2008, 4:49 pm

Quit being a mad little bitch because even someone with 150 posts can make you look like an idiot.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 5, 2008, 4:50 pm

Siji wrote:Quit being a mad little bitch because even someone with 150 posts can make you look like an idiot.

harhar gues you owned me ha dude

funny thing is i dont think youve said anything other than stupid one liners in months, maybe someone will ban you for being a worthless fucking douchestain

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 5, 2008, 8:08 pm

Unbelievable.

If only you had the balls to stand behind your own promise that you were going to fuck off.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 6, 2008, 4:17 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:funny thing is i dont think youve said anything other than stupid one liners in months, maybe someone will ban you for being a worthless fucking douchestain

Funny thing is that a one liner from almost anyone on this board contains more intelligence than multiple paragraphs posted by you.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 8, 2008, 11:30 am

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 8, 2008, 11:53 am

The many faces of anal sex.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » May 8, 2008, 12:32 pm

I saw the post Funk had made about almost beating some guy for scratching his car and I have to call complete and total bullshit. There is no male that would allow himself to be pulled out of a car, spit on, then simply drove off. One of 2 things would have happened. One, any normal man would have responded in some physical manner, be it a push, punch whatever. 2, you could have and should have been arrested for assault. I can safely say that no one here would be afraid of you, so I assume you made it up. The only other possibility is the guy was a very old man and you felt safe enough to be a tough guy.
The fact that you can justify that "event" is hilarious.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 8, 2008, 1:17 pm

Tyek wrote:I saw the post Funk had made about almost beating some guy for scratching his car and I have to call complete and total bullshit. There is no male that would allow himself to be pulled out of a car, spit on, then simply drove off. One of 2 things would have happened. One, any normal man would have responded in some physical manner, be it a push, punch whatever. 2, you could have and should have been arrested for assault. I can safely say that no one here would be afraid of you, so I assume you made it up. The only other possibility is the guy was a very old man and you felt safe enough to be a tough guy.
The fact that you can justify that "event" is hilarious.

Whatever you say sir.