What's your opinion on accelerated degree programs

[Lalanae]

I have a BA in English that I got from an accredited city university. I did the traditional 4 year program even though it took me several years longer because I was supporting myself.

So, when I hear that people can get a Bachelor's degree in a fraction of the time, from these profit-only schools like University of Phoenix, I get a little miffed. It seems that they are primarily business-related B.S. degrees, but still... Why is it OK for some programs to just skip half of the course requirements? At first i assumed that they weren't accredited but it appears that many of them are! What's up with that! Can anyone explain this to me?

Anyone here an employer who reads resumes? Does the school make a difference to you? Obviously someone who went to Yale is going to be of more interest, but when compared to your typical state or city college, what's the impression? Are these degrees taken seriously as "real" degrees?

And to those who have degrees who went the 4 year route, what do you think of these programs?

[Winnow]

Just get the degree. It doesn't matter where.

The traditional schools will provide a better education than the "pay for your degree" profit schools but in the end, as long as you have the degree, the more important impact on your career is your ability to perform and impress.

MBAs are a joke. (an expensive joke) There are plenty of idiots running around with MBAs but they're still required by our ridiculous business employment system.

If you're looking to invest during a recession, one of the great areas to add to your portfolio are the profit schools like University of Phoenix. People tend to go back to school when times are hard. You can get all sorts of loans to get through so people get themselves into huge debt but are still able to go to school. That translates into the stock prices of these schools being less impacted by recessions or even benefiting from them.

I suppose my advice would be to figure out the cheapest possible way you can get an MBA and go that route. You're not going to learn anything anywhere near worth the money you're shelling out.

[Sueven]

Various thoughts:

My impression is that having a bachelors opens doors, in that many jobs require a bachelors degree, and now you are qualified for them. However, there are not a bunch of employers just waiting to hire from the class of newly minted English BA's. My general sense is that, for employment purposes at least (not commenting on the quality of the education), most bachelors degrees are roughly equivalent, especially in the humanities and the softer of the social sciences.

However, it is very possible for one bachelors degree to be far more valuable than another. If you go to a really top school, that will be more impressive than having gone to the University of Phoenix. Big on-campus colleges and universities often provide all sorts of extracurricular opportunities for their students, and taking advantage of these opportunities can also really separate you from the rest of the resume pile. For instance, lets say that you're an English major at a big state school, and you work a summer job with one of your professors doing research, or helping to edit an anthology, or something. Your resume, with the combo of the degree, the experience working academically in your field, and the presumed recommendation that you'll get from a high-quality academic will carry much farther than someone who has a University of Phoenix degree and nothing else. And, of course, there are vast differences within undergraduate programs. If you major in something rigorous-- like Engineering, Computer Science, etc-- and you attended a school which has a reputable program in the field, your degree will be far more valuable than most bachelors.

So I guess my point is that most bachelors degrees in most fields that are not overly specialized and rigorous (most humanities and social sciences and "liberal arts" degrees) are created equal. You can distinguish the quality of your degree via your resume, by demonstrating high-quality academic experience beyond merely having completed the courses, top-notch recommendations, and so forth. The better the school you go to, the more opportunities you have to achieve these things. But as between someone who goes to a shitty school and has no opportunities for such experience and someone who goes to a pretty good school and does not take advantage of these opportunities... not too much of a difference.

Plus, part of the difference is simply in networking opportunities. It's possible that an employer who interviews two candidates, one of whom has an online accelerated degree and the other of whom has a traditional four-year degree, will consider the degrees equivalent. But hopefully the student who attended the four-year school has taken advantage of whatever networking opportunities their school provides, and therefore will have connections to a number of employers which may give them a leg up in the hiring process.

I'm not really familiar with how most employers read undergraduate resumes, but I am highly familiar with how employers read law school resumes, and the law school that you attend makes a BIG difference in that context. Certain career doors can be slammed shut on a student simply by virtue of where he or she attended school, certain law firms and other legal employers will only interview at upper echelon schools, throw away resumes from certain disfavored schools, etc. It's possible to succeed from a lower-tier school, but it's a hell of a lot more challenging.

I completely agree with Winnow that your ability to perform on the job is vastly more important than where you went to school, but that's not to say that your school choice is completely irrelevant, especially when you're talking about elite schools. In the MBA context, for instance, if you're choosing between Michigan State (ranked #29 by Business Week) and Ohio State (ranked "U.S. Second Tier Program"), there's probably only a marginal difference in the usefulness of the degree. If you're choosing between Penn (#2) and Michigan State... go to Penn.

[Mak]

I have been attending University of Phoenix since late 2005, and I'll be graduating in the spring of 2009. So, considering I'd already had some credits transfer from my original college days, I wouldn't exactly characterize it as an accelerated degree program. It is, rather, a degree program that allows me time to work full time and spend some time with my family in addition to getting my degree. A traditional 4 year degree program would not be possible for me. I attend class one night a week for 4 hours, but I spend additional time reading texts, writing papers, and preparing classroom presentations. I take one class at a time for five weeks, and then move on to the next class. So, enough class time to make sure I get what I need from an instructor, plus a shit-ton of reading, research, papers and presentations... no, I don't feel as if I'm simply paying for my diploma. I've worked damn hard for my GPA. In fact, I am still up after 1AM doing some last minute reading for class tomorrow. (This post is my study break.)

I am in the Education program here, and will be student teaching in January. I do not feel as if I've received an inferior education in any way, shape, or form. In fact, I'd have to say that I've got some great advantages that others in a regular program might not have. For instance, UoP courses are almost always taught by professionals currently working in their field. In my last few classes alone my instructors have been an Assistant Superintendent of one of the bigger school systems here, a 30+ year teacher who is now a Principal of a private school, another Principal, a retired Principal, and several former teachers that now head up assorted education programs in various districts throughout the city. So, I'm a year away from being certified, and already I've made contacts with several people who are interested in hiring me.

In the course of my classroom observations in the past year or so I've had opportunities to meet other education students from the University of Arizona and Northern Arizona University and I can truthfully say they appear to have nothing on me, educationally speaking. I find them no better prepared than I- no more knowledgeable of theory, classroom management, child development, SEI/ELL, or any other category of note.

Have I seen idiots in some of the classes I'm taking? To be sure. However, I have also seen some of the complete ditzes that are attending UofA I know that I am getting more from my educational opportunity than they are.

Perhaps it may be different in other fields, but I am not at all worried about my degree being a question when seeking a job.

That help you at all? If I can offer any other opinions or answer any questions I'll do my best.

-Mak

[Ashur]

I have to agree with Mak here. Back in 1998-1999, I attended a local university's (liberal arts college) Business Administration degree completion program. I didn't get to scimp on requirements either, in addition to my scads of transfer credits I had to take some additional courses on top of the core business program.

You get out of any education what you put into it. I busted my ass, learned a lot and got great grades. Did everyone get great grades? No. There were some younger folks and there were some older folks and I immediately gelled with several of the older ones. My study group for two years consisted of a telecommunications field supervisor/manager, a package delivery systems company IT manager, and a Coast Guard non-com who was about to get out after 20 years in the service. All of us were in our 30s. We met for roughly 4 hours once a week in the university library on a different night than class (also 4 hours). Sometimes we could get all of our assignments done in that time, but other times it served as a time to break up large group assignments or to edit our work back together.

I credit my grades (superior to when I was at Ohio State) to my maturity and willingness to study and work to give each subject my full attention. When I was at OSU all I did was drink and chase skirts. Classes were a diversion. (I started college at 17)

All of my instructors had excellent credentials and included several attorneys and CPAs and other instructors with professional credentials exceeding a generic Masters degree. I'll admit that I've always been a sucker for the liberal arts though (I was a History major after switching from Architecture), so I enjoyed the fact that I had to take courses on philosophy and theology (it was a Dominican/Catholic school) on top of the business core track.

Yes, I was doing all that Mak mentions (reading, research, papers and presentations) at the same time I was working 45 hours a week as a telecom product manager and raiding hardcore in EQ (I also managed to buy a house and get married during those years, I give caffeine all the credit for that!).

So just to summarize, accelerated refers to the format of focus on a single class at a time and usually a required study group to augment the classroom. I enjoyed my experience, but am in no hurry to go back to school for an MBA - it's a huge time/money commitment. Yes, you will probably get more out of your education if you quit your job and go to a top-notch ivy league school full time or Thunderbird, but if you're working and have some college already, a degree completion program is an attractive idea.

[Fairweather Pure]

I don't put any stock in degrees, but for better or worse, most employers do. I've met too many people with 4 year degrees that I wouldn't let change the oil in my car. My wife has a 6 year business degree from Western Michigan University. I actually earned more than her for almost 6 years, but only by a couple of thousand dollars. However, her current job is looking like it will triple my pay (at least) by the end of the year, so her degree is paying off in spades. She also has student loans to pay off as well.

I have a certificate I earned by taking 2 classes and then learning on the job. The test took 2 hours and cost me 150$. Whenever I want, I can take another test and be bumped up one pay scale. I am extremely happy to have my job and earn as much as I do with absolutely no formal education. I am one of the lucky few. I will be encouraging my children to follow the path of education as opposed to my path of being at the right place at the right time.

Btw, I did take classes from a local community collage here in Michigan, and almost finished my associates in a college in Arkansas, but alas, life interfered.

[Fairweather Pure]

Just get the degree. It doesn't matter where.

Yes. I agree. You can have a degree in underwater basket weaving and it will open doors that would never be an option otherwise. The paper saying you have an education is a requirement in many places. I have a friend who is in the IT business. He has an assosciates degree from a local community college. The sky is the limit for his job. Not because of his degree, but because he knows what the fuck he's doing. He's a "computer guy" to the very core of his being. The degree just opened the door for him to get hired. He's been with the same compay for about 10 years now. They've since raised thier educational requirements. You must have a 6 year degree before they'll even interview you. He has people that work under him with 4 times more education than him, but lack the intimate knowledge that comes with experiance and sheer love of your job.

He often laments how, technically, he dosen't even qualify for his own job anymore and would face trouble finding a job that paid anywhere near what he makes now due simply to lack of education on paper. To me, that's like not hiring Beethoven because he never took piano lessons. Fucking stupid.

I say go, go accelerated degree programs. All you have to do is get in the fucking door. Who cares if it's bullshit? You hire peope based on interviews where you can assess thier personalities, ability to learn and adapt, and to see if they are the right fit for the given position. When I interviewed for my job, I beat out 3 people with degrees in coding, and one with about 5 years experiance. They failed the interview process, and I excelled.

I have gotten every job I have ever interviewed for. The personal interaction means everything.

[Winnow]

In the course of my classroom observations in the past year or so I've had opportunities to meet other education students from the University of Arizona and Northern Arizona University and I can truthfully say they appear to have nothing on me, educationally speaking.

Notice he didn't mention Arizona State. ASU! ASU!

[Aabidano]

He often laments how, technically, he dosen't even qualify for his own job anymore and would face trouble finding a job that paid anywhere near what he makes now due simply to lack of education on paper. To me, that's like not hiring Beethoven because he never took piano lessons. Fucking stupid.

That's where I sit now, and it's what's making me seriously look at finishing a BA. What it's in or where your degree is from doesn't seem to matter all that much. Don't plan on doing it but even something from an unaccredited diploma mill can be good enough to get your foot in the door.

[Winnow]

Sueven mentioned networking. The other thing to note is if you're already working at a company. I've seen managers wanting to promote employees but they don't have a degree. They could care less where or what the degree is, just that they get one and then they get the promotion or new job position because in big companies, it's a requirement and the manager can't promote unless that box is filled.

[Sueven]

The situation that Winnow's describing (and to a lesser extent Aab's situation) are, in my mind at least, the ideal example of a time where it really does not matter one bit where you get the degree or what precisely you're learning-- possessing that piece of paper is really all you're going for.

I'd also second those who have noted just how many idiots with degrees come out of traditional four year campus-bound schools. If I'm an employer and I'm choosing between some young snot who partied his way through four years of not-particularly-rigorous university education, and a somewhat older person who put themselves through an online night school while holding down a real job... yeah, easy choice.

[Lalanae]

What brought this up is Eric's dingle-berry ex wife told him that her employer is paying for her to go to some school (I don't know which one) and that she'll have a Bachelor's degree in business accounting in like 1-2 years....going only 1 night a week. She's had no education at all since high school so it's not like she has any transferrable credits or anything. She's pretty ignorant about education in general (well everything in general really), so I called bullshit on it at first, assuming she was confused about something, but now I'm not so sure after reading a bit on the internet.

Is it possible to get a Bachelor's degree in 1-2 years going only 1 night a week (assumably for 3-4 hours)?

[Winnow]

What brought this up is Eric's dingle-berry ex wife told him that her employer is paying for her to go to some school (I don't know which one) and that she'll have a Bachelor's degree in business accounting in like 1-2 years....going only 1 night a week. She's had no education at all since high school so it's not like she has any transferrable credits or anything. She's pretty ignorant about education in general (well everything in general really), so I called bullshit on it at first, assuming she was confused about something, but now I'm not so sure after reading a bit on the internet.

Is it possible to get a Bachelor's degree in 1-2 years going only 1 night a week (assumably for 3-4 hours)?

Profit schools like University of Phoenix accept "life experience" as credit. If you were in the military, had a job, etc. Those count as credit toward your degree. Whatever it takes to get the person enrolled.

Remember one thing. University of Phoenix is a publicly traded company (Apollo Group). They are constantly under pressure to meet enrollment goals to keep their shareholders happy. Nothing against the people that are using University of Phoenix legitimately (Mak above), but the entry standards for schools like this are non existent. They'll find a way to get you in and they'll find a way to keep you (that means if you complain about a C, they'll give you a B rather than lose your money)

I hear about University of Phoenix all the time because they're based here in Phoenix (!). I don't mean to single them out and don't mean to say that all teachers, etc associated with the school are bad. They do cater to companies that pay for their employee's schooling (many large corporations will pay for school).

[Sueven]

My question is: Assuming Winnow's description is accurate (which it probably is, to at least a significant extent):

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Should you be able to get significant credits for 'life experience?' On one hand, someone who has been working in a business for awhile probably DOES have experience that renders a fair amount of introductory coursework redundant. On the other hand, allowing this means that there are a number of perspectives that you're not exposed to and experiences which you don't have.

I guess it depends on what you think a degree represents.

Is it a certification that you have achieved a certain level of competence in a given field?

Or is it a certification that you have gone through a particular educational experience?

[Ashur]

I've not seen anything that would allow a bachelors degree with that amount of work in only 1-2 years with no transfer credit. I'm calling bullshit with Lala. Get details. She may be confused.

[Winnow]

a simple search turned up:

University of Phoenix offers nighttime and weekend classes to make it easier for busy people like you to attend classes while maintaining work and family responsibilities. By attending one class session and one team meeting each week, you could earn your bachelor's or master's degree in just 2 or 3 years...

...University of Phoenix also considers transfer credits from other Universities, military experience, corporate training and other life experience which can be applied toward degree requirements. Earning your degree might be closer than you think!

[Ashur]

Details. They want to get you hooked and then drop all the pre-reqs on you once you're sure you want it. With transfer credit or a lot of military experience 2 years would be do-able. It doesn't sound like that would be applicable for the ex.

[Mak]

What brought this up is Eric's dingle-berry ex wife told him that her employer is paying for her to go to some school (I don't know which one) and that she'll have a Bachelor's degree in business accounting in like 1-2 years....going only 1 night a week. She's had no education at all since high school so it's not like she has any transferrable credits or anything. She's pretty ignorant about education in general (well everything in general really), so I called bullshit on it at first, assuming she was confused about something, but now I'm not so sure after reading a bit on the internet.

Is it possible to get a Bachelor's degree in 1-2 years going only 1 night a week (assumably for 3-4 hours)?

I'd say no, not possible.

While UoP may pretty much allow anyone to enter (as would any 'regular' community college), they do have to maintain criteria to obtain and keep their accreditation. During my enrollment process they did give me credit for college courses I took many years ago, I got no "life experience" credit. I would assume that something like the military would count for a lot, as the technical training in some of those jobs is pretty thorough. I didn't get jack for "just" having worked hard over the years.

I'm not above thinking an enrollment counselor somewhere may have been overly optimistic on her expected graduation date, but 3 credit hours every five weeks adds up to roughly the same amount of time as a regular degree- 30 credits a year or so. Assuming her degree requires 120 credit hours, she's still looking at 4 years.

Winnow, I've not encountered anyone that has gotten a grade changed for whining. I'd assume anyone can appeal a grade if they feel there was an error, and that they'd have a much better chance of getting a fair review, as opposed to some stodgy old tenured professor who wouldn't even consider it because it was an affront to him regardless of whether or not he was right.

[Mak]

Let me also add that the culture and world we live in is changing. While I'm certainly not saying that the traditional 4 year college is dying, one must recognize that the way we educate is changing and growing along with everything else. Many traditional schools are offering online versions of their programs, having recognized that there are a ton of people that want to get educated but cannot commit to the traditional methods.

For instance, Northern Arizona University is offering an almost exact duplicate of the UoP model (1 night a week) here at it's Tucson campus. In looking at their program, it seems to match mine pretty closely.

[Aabidano]

I've looked into it (but not at UoP), using military coursework and nothing else all I need is the the basic stuff, English, etc.. to get a degree. I spent probably 3 of my 16 years in the Navy in one technical school or another plus another 5 years of teaching and curriculum development.

UoP was one I was looking at, co-worker just finished her BA (~3 years) with them and is starting a masters (2 more).

[Lalanae]

She probably is confusing an Associates degree & a Bachelor's degree, which wouldn't surprise me. The odds of her even finishing a 1-2 year program is pretty unlikely anyway, so it's probably a moot point. It's out of character that she's even interested in improving herself, but best-case, she gets more money one day and quits whining to Eric about how broke she always is.

I thought about getting my MBA at UoP at one point, but realized that between my resume and my industry reputation it really wasn't worth the time & money investment. I think at this point if I invest in anything it's going to be Six Sigma.

[Truant]

She probably is confusing an Associates degree & a Bachelor's degree

That's what I was going to say, and started to earlier.
But my apathy overwhelmed me at the rediculous walls of text that I encountered in this thread.

I'm an apathetic asshole.

[Winnow]

I think at this point if I invest in anything it's going to be Six Sigma.

Ug, I had that training at Motorola (original developer of Six Sigma) It's generally geared toward manufacturing. Will it help your career as an editor? 3.4 typos per one million words edited?

[Lalanae]

I think at this point if I invest in anything it's going to be Six Sigma.

Ug, I had that training at Motorola (original developer of Six Sigma) It's generally geared toward manufacturing. Will it help your career as an editor? 3.4 typos per one million words edited?

I've never been an editor. I started out as a technical writer (and still do some of that), but I'm doing more process and information management these last few years. I'm actually working directly under a Green Belt who wants to apply Six Sigma to our group's processes. The company I contract for has a group of Black Belts that do nothing more than work with business groups to apply Six Sigma. While it was initially developed for manufacturing, you can apply it to any business process.

[Dregor Thule]

Are we talking Karate now?!

[Spang]

She works for ninjas.

[pyrella]

Six Sigma is the work of the devil. Every vendor I've worked with, who has a project manager who is Six Sigma X-belt, has done nothing but continually push back production goals, and at best, been an impediment to standard work flow. It might be fine and dandy for the person on the PM side, but people who actually, you know, need to work for a living, have rarely not had issues with the processes and functions introduced.

It ranks up there with SAS70 and most ISO certifications.


Great, I've documented the shit out of my cement life vest. It doesn't matter that it doesn't work, just that I've documented it.

[Banlauk]

My 2 cents:
I am a manager of an IT area for a financial institution that does look at resumes and have been involved in hiring several people at a couple of different jobs. I have also had a Sr. Manager and friends with MBA's from University of Phoenix as well as accredited universities.

In the IT world, it will be almost 100% as to what you bring to the table as far as experience and personal interaction, with the MBA as a "cherry" on top.

In the business world, "Pedigree" comes into play a lot more. I think the education that is received from a University of Phoenix MBA can be top notch and on par with what accredited universities offer... however, most companies that are looking to hire based on the fact that you have an MBA will definitely take into consideration the fact that it is accredited or not.

That being said, most major Universities now have a similar accredited, accelerated degree program for working professionals that can get you the MBA program. A popular one is an 8 hour Saturday that rotates classes every 8-weeks or so. This is a significant time commitment, but is fully accredited, and still gets you in 2 years.

Had to jump in because I am in my first MBA class after 10 years out of school... man it is tough to start over again.......

[Deward]

I got my Master's at UoP and I can say that it took a lot of freaking work. I didn't have to write a thesis but it wasn't a one-day-per-week thing. I was on every single night for discussion. If you missed more than 7 days in a row without logging in then you failed the class. On average I had to write a 1000-3000 word paper (with a minimum of three references) every week. At the end of each 6-week course I had to do some sort of PowerPoint presentation and a cumultative paper, sometimes just combining all previous work but many times it was a separate huge paper. I had several that were over 30 pages long. On top of that they were VERY strict on references and how they were written. The classes I was in would not allow any sources more than a year or two old.

When I was looking around at Master's programs I was pretty skeptical about UoP as well. I really dug into their accredidations(?). They were accredited by the same organizations as my traditional Bachelor's program. Some of the other colleges were accredited by some pretty hokey organizations.

I finished in 2 years but could have finished a few months earlier. I took some time off when my son was born and while at some military training. I ended paying over $20k for the education but I got two raises at work so it paid for itself after a couple years.

I am involved in the accreditation process at my current university and I must say that it is quite rigorous. Any university that meets the requirements has definitely earned it.