Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

What do you think about the world?
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071217/D8TJ04TG0.html
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) - Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul's supporters raised over $6 million Sunday to boost the 10-term Texas congressman's campaign for the White House.

Called a "Money Bomb," the goal was to raise as much money as possible on the Internet in one day. The campaign's previous fundraiser brought in $4.2 million.


At midnight EST, donations were over $6 million, according to the campaign Web site. Those donations are processed credit card receipts, said Paul campaign spokesman Jesse Benton. Benton said the median donation is about $50 in the fundraiser, which was the idea of Paul supporters who are not officially connected to the campaign.

Trevor Lyman, a Paul supporter who is traveling the country following the Ron Paul blimp, said the date of the fundraiser coincides with the 234th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.

The Ron Paul blimp is an aerial billboard emblazoned on one side with "Who is Ron Paul? Google Ron Paul." The other side reads "Ron Paul Revolution." The blimp, another grass-roots effort, was in Chester, S.C., on Sunday, and organizers hope to get it to New Hampshire before the Jan. 8 primary there.
For a 'long-shot' candidate (god that term irritates me) he has twice broken the record for donations received in a single day... That's over 10 million in those 2 days (not consecutive).

There is still time left for things to swing around... In the span of 2 weeks Hillary went from the 'inevitable' candidate to 'is this the end?'... The media could theoretically warm up to Paul just as quick.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27703
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Winnow »

All I see are articles about Ron Paul raising money. Any news about him climbing in the polls?

How does campaign fund raising work btw? Is he required by law to spend all of that money on his campaign? Can he throw an outrageously expensive party and spend all that money on it?
User avatar
Xatrei
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2104
Joined: July 22, 2002, 4:28 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boringham, AL

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Xatrei »

All the money in the world doesn't make crazy any more electable (see Ross Perot).
"When I was a kid, my father told me, 'Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it.'" - Russel Ziskey
User avatar
Markulas
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 496
Joined: June 27, 2003, 2:03 am

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Markulas »

I believe you can spend the money anyway you see fit. If Ron Paul can raise enough money to pay off primary voters he might have a chance.
I'm going to live forever or die trying
User avatar
Bubba Grizz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 6121
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:52 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Bubba Grizz »

I think it is sad for the most part that only the rich will make it to office and not the best person.
User avatar
valryte
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 679
Joined: August 28, 2002, 12:58 am

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by valryte »

Don't blame the rich...blame all the sheep...
When the world is mine, your death shall be quick and painless.
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

Can't really blame the sheep... By the time they're involved, it's too late. They aren't involved in the early selection process. You can blame the RNC and DNC, though, and the media.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
Sueven
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3200
Joined: July 22, 2002, 12:36 pm

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Sueven »

I think it's an issue of "blame the system" rather than "blame any particular person or entity"
User avatar
Boogahz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9438
Joined: July 6, 2002, 2:00 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: corin12
PSN ID: boog144
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Boogahz »

http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_ ... rID=196715
Boston Tea Party held in Austin
12/16/2007 7:45 PM
By: News 8 Austin Staff

A group of Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) supporters celebrated the 234th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party with a new twist Sunday.

Boxes symbolizing tea boxes were stacked alongside Lady Bird
Lake before they were put on a boat with likenesses of Senator and presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton and President Bush.

The boxes represented various departments and offices of the
government and policies.

People dressed like 18th century patriots threw the boxes into the lake.

Similar grassroots tea party rallies were planned around the
nation, including one in Boston.

Congressman Ron Paul is a candidate in the Republican
Presidential nominee race.
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

I enjoyed this endorsement by Andrew Sullivan for Ron Paul:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... or-th.html
By now, readers will know who I favor in the Democratic race. Here's my most considered case. But what of the GOP? For me, it comes down to two men, Ron Paul and John McCain. That may sound strange, because in many ways they are polar opposites: the champion of the surge and the non-interventionist against the Iraq war; the occasional meddling boss of Washington and the live-and-let-live libertarian from Texas. But picking a candidate is always a mix of policy and character, of pragmatism and principle. And what these two mavericks share, to my mind, is a modicum of integrity. At one end of the character scale, you have the sickening sight of Mitt Romney, a hollow shell of cynicism and salesmanship, recrafted to appeal to a base he studied the way Bain consultants assess a company. Paul and McCain are at the other end. They have both said things to GOP audiences that they knew would offend. They have stuck with their positions despite unpopularity. They're not saints, but they believe what they say. Both have also taken a stand against the cancerous and deeply un-American torture and detention regime constructed by Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld. In my book, that counts.

I admire McCain in so many ways. He is the adult in the field, he is attuned to the issue of climate change in a way no other Republican is, he is a genuine war hero and a patriot, and he bravely and rightly opposed the disastrous occupation policies of the Bush administration in Iraq. The surge is no panacea for Iraq; but it has enabled the United States to lose the war without losing face. And that, in the end, is why I admire McCain but nonetheless have to favor Paul over McCain. Because on the critical issue of our time - the great question of the last six years - Paul has been proven right and McCain wrong. And I say that as someone who once passionately supported McCain's position on the war but who cannot pretend any longer that it makes sense.

Let's be clear: we have lost this war. We have lost because the initial, central goals of the invasion have all failed: we have not secured WMDS from terrorists because those WMDs did not exist. We have not stymied Islamist terror - at best we have finally stymied some of the terror we helped create. We have not constructed a democratic model for the Middle East - we have instead destroyed a totalitarian government and a phony country, only to create a permanently unstable, fractious, chaotic failed state, where the mere avoidance of genocide is a cause for celebration. We have, moreover, helped solder a new truth in the Arab mind: that democracy means chaos, anarchy, mass-murder, national disintegration and sectarian warfare. And we have also empowered the Iranian regime and made a wider Sunni-Shiite regional war more likely than it was in 2003. Apart from that, Mr Bush, how did you enjoy your presidency?

McCain, for all his many virtues, still doesn't get this. Paul does.

Paul, moreover, supports the only rational response: a withdrawal, as speedily and prudently as possible. McCain, along with Lieberman, still seems to believe that expending even more billions of dollars to prop up and enable a fast-devolving, ethnically toxic, religiously nutty region is somehow in American interests. Given the enormous challenges of the terror war, the huge debt we are piling up, the exhaustion of the military, the moral and financial corruption that has its white-hot center in Mesopotamia, I do not believe that an endless military, economic and political commitment to Iraq makes sense. It only makes sense if we are determined to occupy the Middle East indefinitely to secure oil supplies. But the rational response to oil dependence is not to entrench it, but to try and move away from it. Institutionalizing a bank-breaking, morale-busting Middle East empire isn't the way to go.

But the deeper reason to support Ron Paul is a simple one. The great forgotten principles of the current Republican party are freedom and toleration. Paul's federalism, his deep suspicion of Washington power, his resistance to government spending, debt and inflation, his ability to grasp that not all human problems are soluble, least of all by government: these are principles that made me a conservative in the first place. No one in the current field articulates them as clearly and understands them as deeply as Paul. He is a man of faith who nonetheless sees a clear line between religion and politics. More than all this, he has somehow ignited a new movement of those who love freedom and want to rescue it from the do-gooding bromides of the left and the Christianist meddling of the right. The Paulites' enthusiasm for liberty, their unapologetic defense of core conservative principles, their awareness that in the new millennium, these principles of small government, self-reliance, cultural pluralism, and a humble foreign policy are more necessary than ever - no lover of liberty can stand by and not join them.

He's the real thing in a world of fakes and frauds. And in a primary campaign where the very future of conservatism is at stake, that cannot be ignored. In fact, it demands support.


Go Ron Paul!
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Nick »

It's good to see a man, albeit an anti-abortionist like Paul, bring back some semblance of reality to the crumbling Republican presidential run up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrkltetQ0x4
Sueven
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3200
Joined: July 22, 2002, 12:36 pm

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Sueven »

Ron Paul's campaign is entirely fucking over.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html? ... 32a7da84ca

Done.

Andrew Sullivan has withdrawn his endorsement and picked McCain instead.

There are various explanations for this, some less unflattering than others, but even the most flattering will destroy his campaign.
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

care to quote the text? that link isn't working...
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fairweather Pure »

If you are a critic of the Bush administration, chances are that, at some point over the past six months, Ron Paul has said something that appealed to you. Paul describes himself as a libertarian, but, since his presidential campaign took off earlier this year, the Republican congressman has attracted donations and plaudits from across the ideological spectrum. Antiwar conservatives, disaffected centrists, even young liberal activists have all flocked to Paul, hailing him as a throwback to an earlier age, when politicians were less mealy-mouthed and American government was more modest in its ambitions, both at home and abroad. In The New York Times Magazine, conservative writer Christopher Caldwell gushed that Paul is a "formidable stander on constitutional principle," while The Nation praised "his full-throated rejection of the imperial project in Iraq." Former TNR editor Andrew Sullivan endorsed Paul for the GOP nomination, and ABC's Jake Tapper described the candidate as "the one true straight-talker in this race." Even The Wall Street Journal, the newspaper of the elite bankers whom Paul detests, recently advised other Republican presidential contenders not to "dismiss the passion he's tapped."

Credit: Getty Images
View Larger Image
Congressman Ron Paul.

RELATED CONTENT
Read selections from Ron Paul's newsletters


Most voters had never heard of Paul before he launched his quixotic bid for the Republican nomination. But the Texan has been active in politics for decades. And, long before he was the darling of antiwar activists on the left and right, Paul was in the newsletter business. In the age before blogs, newsletters occupied a prominent place in right-wing political discourse. With the pages of mainstream political magazines typically off-limits to their views (National Review editor William F. Buckley having famously denounced the John Birch Society), hardline conservatives resorted to putting out their own, less glossy publications. These were often paranoid and rambling--dominated by talk of international banking conspiracies, the Trilateral Commission's plans for world government, and warnings about coming Armageddon--but some of them had wide and devoted audiences. And a few of the most prominent bore the name of Ron Paul.

Paul's newsletters have carried different titles over the years--Ron Paul's Freedom Report, Ron Paul Political Report, The Ron Paul Survival Report--but they generally seem to have been published on a monthly basis since at least 1978. (Paul, an OB-GYN and former U.S. Air Force surgeon, was first elected to Congress in 1976.) During some periods, the newsletters were published by the Foundation for Rational Economics and Education, a nonprofit Paul founded in 1976; at other times, they were published by Ron Paul & Associates, a now-defunct entity in which Paul owned a minority stake, according to his campaign spokesman. The Freedom Report claimed to have over 100,000 readers in 1984. At one point, Ron Paul & Associates also put out a monthly publication called The Ron Paul Investment Letter.

The Freedom Report's online archives only go back to 1999, but I was curious to see older editions of Paul's newsletters, in part because of a controversy dating to 1996, when Charles "Lefty" Morris, a Democrat running against Paul for a House seat, released excerpts stating that "opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions," that "if you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be," and that black representative Barbara Jordan is "the archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism." At the time, Paul's campaign said that Morris had quoted the newsletter out of context. Later, in 2001, Paul would claim that someone else had written the controversial passages. (Few of the newsletters contain actual bylines.) Caldwell, writing in the Times Magazine last year, said he found Paul's explanation believable, "since the style diverges widely from his own."

Finding the pre-1999 newsletters was no easy task, but I was able to track many of them down at the libraries of the University of Kansas and the Wisconsin Historical Society. Of course, with few bylines, it is difficult to know whether any particular article was written by Paul himself. Some of the earlier newsletters are signed by him, though the vast majority of the editions I saw contain no bylines at all. Complicating matters, many of the unbylined newsletters were written in the first person, implying that Paul was the author.

But, whoever actually wrote them, the newsletters I saw all had one thing in common: They were published under a banner containing Paul's name, and the articles (except for one special edition of a newsletter that contained the byline of another writer) seem designed to create the impression that they were written by him--and reflected his views. What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays. In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing--but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics.




To understand Paul's philosophy, the best place to start is probably the Ludwig von Mises Institute, a libertarian think tank based in Auburn, Alabama. The institute is named for a libertarian Austrian economist, but it was founded by a man named Lew Rockwell, who also served as Paul's congressional chief of staff from 1978 to 1982. Paul has had a long and prominent association with the institute, teaching at its seminars and serving as a "distinguished counselor." The institute has also published his books.

The politics of the organization are complicated--its philosophy derives largely from the work of the late Murray Rothbard, a Bronx-born son of Jewish immigrants from Poland and a self-described "anarcho-capitalist" who viewed the state as nothing more than "a criminal gang"--but one aspect of the institute's worldview stands out as particularly disturbing: its attachment to the Confederacy. Thomas E. Woods Jr., a member of the institute's senior faculty, is a founder of the League of the South, a secessionist group, and the author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History, a pro-Confederate, revisionist tract published in 2004. Paul enthusiastically blurbed Woods's book, saying that it "heroically rescues real history from the politically correct memory hole." Thomas DiLorenzo, another senior faculty member and author of The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War, refers to the Civil War as the "War for Southern Independence" and attacks "Lincoln cultists"; Paul endorsed the book on MSNBC last month in a debate over whether the Civil War was necessary (Paul thinks it was not). In April 1995, the institute hosted a conference on secession at which Paul spoke; previewing the event, Rockwell wrote to supporters, "We'll explore what causes [secession] and how to promote it." Paul's newsletters have themselves repeatedly expressed sympathy for the general concept of secession. In 1992, for instance, the Survival Report argued that "the right of secession should be ingrained in a free society" and that "there is nothing wrong with loosely banding together small units of government. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, we too should consider it."

The people surrounding the von Mises Institute--including Paul--may describe themselves as libertarians, but they are nothing like the urbane libertarians who staff the Cato Institute or the libertines at Reason magazine. Instead, they represent a strain of right-wing libertarianism that views the Civil War as a catastrophic turning point in American history--the moment when a tyrannical federal government established its supremacy over the states. As one prominent Washington libertarian told me, "There are too many libertarians in this country ... who, because they are attracted to the great books of Mises, ... find their way to the Mises Institute and then are told that a defense of the Confederacy is part of libertarian thought."

Paul's alliance with neo-Confederates helps explain the views his newsletters have long espoused on race. Take, for instance, a special issue of the Ron Paul Political Report, published in June 1992, dedicated to explaining the Los Angeles riots of that year. "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began," read one typical passage. According to the newsletter, the looting was a natural byproduct of government indulging the black community with "'civil rights,' quotas, mandated hiring preferences, set-asides for government contracts, gerrymandered voting districts, black bureaucracies, black mayors, black curricula in schools, black tv shows, black tv anchors, hate crime laws, and public humiliation for anyone who dares question the black agenda." It also denounced "the media" for believing that "America's number one need is an unlimited white checking account for underclass blacks." To be fair, the newsletter did praise Asian merchants in Los Angeles, but only because they had the gumption to resist political correctness and fight back. Koreans were "the only people to act like real Americans," it explained, "mainly because they have not yet been assimilated into our rotten liberal culture, which admonishes whites faced by raging blacks to lie back and think of England."

This "Special Issue on Racial Terrorism" was hardly the first time one of Paul's publications had raised these topics. As early as December 1989, a section of his Investment Letter, titled "What To Expect for the 1990s," predicted that "Racial Violence Will Fill Our Cities" because "mostly black welfare recipients will feel justified in stealing from mostly white 'haves.'" Two months later, a newsletter warned of "The Coming Race War," and, in November 1990, an item advised readers, "If you live in a major city, and can leave, do so. If not, but you can have a rural retreat, for investment and refuge, buy it." In June 1991, an entry on racial disturbances in Washington, DC's Adams Morgan neighborhood was titled, "Animals Take Over the D.C. Zoo." "This is only the first skirmish in the race war of the 1990s," the newsletter predicted. In an October 1992 item about urban crime, the newsletter's author--presumably Paul--wrote, "I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming." That same year, a newsletter described the aftermath of a basketball game in which "blacks poured into the streets of Chicago in celebration. How to celebrate? How else? They broke the windows of stores to loot." The newsletter inveighed against liberals who "want to keep white America from taking action against black crime and welfare," adding, "Jury verdicts, basketball games, and even music are enough to set off black rage, it seems."

Such views on race also inflected the newsletters' commentary on foreign affairs. South Africa's transition to multiracial democracy was portrayed as a "destruction of civilization" that was "the most tragic [to] ever occur on that continent, at least below the Sahara"; and, in March 1994, a month before Nelson Mandela was elected president, one item warned of an impending "South African Holocaust."

Martin Luther King Jr. earned special ire from Paul's newsletters, which attacked the civil rights leader frequently, often to justify opposition to the federal holiday named after him. ("What an infamy Ronald Reagan approved it!" one newsletter complained in 1990. "We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day.") In the early 1990s, a newsletter attacked the "X-Rated Martin Luther King" as a "world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours," "seduced underage girls and boys," and "made a pass at" fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy. One newsletter ridiculed black activists who wanted to rename New York City after King, suggesting that "Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," and "Lazyopolis" were better alternatives. The same year, King was described as "a comsymp, if not an actual party member, and the man who replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration."

While bashing King, the newsletters had kind words for the former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke. In a passage titled "The Duke's Victory," a newsletter celebrated Duke's 44 percent showing in the 1990 Louisiana Senate primary. "Duke lost the election," it said, "but he scared the blazes out of the Establishment." In 1991, a newsletter asked, "Is David Duke's new prominence, despite his losing the gubernatorial election, good for anti-big government forces?" The conclusion was that "our priority should be to take the anti-government, anti-tax, anti-crime, anti-welfare loafers, anti-race privilege, anti-foreign meddling message of Duke, and enclose it in a more consistent package of freedom." Duke is now returning the favor, telling me that, while he will not formally endorse any candidate, he has made information about Ron Paul available on his website.




Like blacks, gays earn plenty of animus in Paul's newsletters. They frequently quoted Paul's "old colleague," Representative William Dannemeyer--who advocated quarantining people with AIDS--praising him for "speak[ing] out fearlessly despite the organized power of the gay lobby." In 1990, one newsletter mentioned a reporter from a gay magazine "who certainly had an axe to grind, and that's not easy with a limp wrist." In an item titled, "The Pink House?" the author of a newsletter--again, presumably Paul--complained about President George H.W. Bush's decision to sign a hate crimes bill and invite "the heads of homosexual lobbying groups to the White House for the ceremony," adding, "I miss the closet." "Homosexuals," it said, "not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities." When Marvin Liebman, a founder of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a longtime political activist, announced that he was gay in the pages of National Review, a Paul newsletter implored, "Bring Back the Closet!" Surprisingly, one item expressed ambivalence about the contentious issue of gays in the military, but ultimately concluded, "Homosexuals, if admitted, should be put in a special category and not allowed in close physical contact with heterosexuals."

The newsletters were particularly obsessed with AIDS, "a politically protected disease thanks to payola and the influence of the homosexual lobby," and used it as a rhetorical club to beat gay people in general. In 1990, one newsletter approvingly quoted "a well-known Libertarian editor" as saying, "The ACT-UP slogan, on stickers plastered all over Manhattan, is 'Silence = Death.' But shouldn't it be 'Sodomy = Death'?" Readers were warned to avoid blood transfusions because gays were trying to "poison the blood supply." "Am I the only one sick of hearing about the 'rights' of AIDS carriers?" a newsletter asked in 1990. That same year, citing a Christian-right fringe publication, an item suggested that "the AIDS patient" should not be allowed to eat in restaurants and that "AIDS can be transmitted by saliva," which is false. Paul's newsletters advertised a book, Surviving the AIDS Plague--also based upon the casual-transmission thesis--and defended "parents who worry about sending their healthy kids to school with AIDS victims." Commenting on a rise in AIDS infections, one newsletter said that "gays in San Francisco do not obey the dictates of good sense," adding: "[T]hese men don't really see a reason to live past their fifties. They are not married, they have no children, and their lives are centered on new sexual partners." Also, "they enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick."

The rhetoric when it came to Jews was little better. The newsletters display an obsession with Israel; no other country is mentioned more often in the editions I saw, or with more vitriol. A 1987 issue of Paul's Investment Letter called Israel "an aggressive, national socialist state," and a 1990 newsletter discussed the "tens of thousands of well-placed friends of Israel in all countries who are willing to wok [sic] for the Mossad in their area of expertise." Of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, a newsletter said, "Whether it was a setup by the Israeli Mossad, as a Jewish friend of mine suspects, or was truly a retaliation by the Islamic fundamentalists, matters little."




Paul's newsletters didn't just contain bigotry. They also contained paranoia--specifically, the brand of anti-government paranoia that festered among right-wing militia groups during the 1980s and '90s. Indeed, the newsletters seemed to hint that armed revolution against the federal government would be justified. In January 1995, three months before right-wing militants bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, a newsletter listed "Ten Militia Commandments," describing "the 1,500 local militias now training to defend liberty" as "one of the most encouraging developments in America." It warned militia members that they were "possibly under BATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] or other totalitarian federal surveillance" and printed bits of advice from the Sons of Liberty, an anti-government militia based in Alabama--among them, "You can't kill a Hydra by cutting off its head," "Keep the group size down," "Keep quiet and you're harder to find," "Leave no clues," "Avoid the phone as much as possible," and "Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."

The newsletters are chock-full of shopworn conspiracies, reflecting Paul's obsession with the "industrial-banking-political elite" and promoting his distrust of a federally regulated monetary system utilizing paper bills. They contain frequent and bristling references to the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, and the Council on Foreign Relations--organizations that conspiracy theorists have long accused of seeking world domination. In 1978, a newsletter blamed David Rockefeller, the Trilateral Commission, and "fascist-oriented, international banking and business interests" for the Panama Canal Treaty, which it called "one of the saddest events in the history of the United States." A 1988 newsletter cited a doctor who believed that AIDS was created in a World Health Organization laboratory in Fort Detrick, Maryland. In addition, Ron Paul & Associates sold a video about Waco produced by "patriotic Indiana lawyer Linda Thompson"--as one of the newsletters called her--who maintained that Waco was a conspiracy to kill ATF agents who had previously worked for President Clinton as bodyguards. As with many of the more outlandish theories the newsletters cited over the years, the video received a qualified endorsement: "I can't vouch for every single judgment by the narrator, but the film does show the depths of government perfidy, and the national police's tricks and crimes," the newsletter said, adding, "Send your check for $24.95 to our Houston office, or charge the tape to your credit card at 1-800-RON-PAUL."




When I asked Jesse Benton, Paul's campaign spokesman, about the newsletters, he said that, over the years, Paul had granted "various levels of approval" to what appeared in his publications--ranging from "no approval" to instances where he "actually wrote it himself." After I read Benton some of the more offensive passages, he said, "A lot of [the newsletters] he did not see. Most of the incendiary stuff, no." He added that he was surprised to hear about the insults hurled at Martin Luther King, because "Ron thinks Martin Luther King is a hero."

In other words, Paul's campaign wants to depict its candidate as a naïve, absentee overseer, with minimal knowledge of what his underlings were doing on his behalf. This portrayal might be more believable if extremist views had cropped up in the newsletters only sporadically--or if the newsletters had just been published for a short time. But it is difficult to imagine how Paul could allow material consistently saturated in racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy-mongering to be printed under his name for so long if he did not share these views. In that respect, whether or not Paul personally wrote the most offensive passages is almost beside the point. If he disagreed with what was being written under his name, you would think that at some point--over the course of decades--he would have done something about it.

What's more, Paul's connections to extremism go beyond the newsletters. He has given extensive interviews to the magazine of the John Birch Society, and has frequently been a guest of Alex Jones, a radio host and perhaps the most famous conspiracy theorist in America. Jones--whose recent documentary, Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement, details the plans of George Pataki, David Rockefeller, and Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, among others, to exterminate most of humanity and develop themselves into "superhuman" computer hybrids able to "travel throughout the cosmos"--estimates that Paul has appeared on his radio program about 40 times over the past twelve years.

Then there is Gary North, who has worked on Paul's congressional staff. North is a central figure in Christian Reconstructionism, which advocates the implementation of Biblical law in modern society. Christian Reconstructionists share common ground with libertarians, since both groups dislike the central government. North has advocated the execution of women who have abortions and people who curse their parents. In a 1986 book, North argued for stoning as a form of capital punishment--because "the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost." North is perhaps best known for Gary North's Remnant Review, a "Christian and pro free-market" newsletter. In a 1983 letter Paul wrote on behalf of an organization called the Committee to Stop the Bail-Out of Multinational Banks (known by the acronym CSBOMB), he bragged, "Perhaps you already read in Gary North's Remnant Review about my exposes of government abuse."




Ron Paul is not going to be president. But, as his campaign has gathered steam, he has found himself increasingly permitted inside the boundaries of respectable debate. He sat for an extensive interview with Tim Russert recently. He has raised almost $20 million in just three months, much of it online. And he received nearly three times as many votes as erstwhile front-runner Rudy Giuliani in last week's Iowa caucus. All the while he has generally been portrayed by the media as principled and serious, while garnering praise for being a "straight-talker."

From his newsletters, however, a different picture of Paul emerges--that of someone who is either himself deeply embittered or, for a long time, allowed others to write bitterly on his behalf. His adversaries are often described in harsh terms: Barbara Jordan is called "Barbara Morondon," Eleanor Holmes Norton is a "black pinko," Donna Shalala is a "short lesbian," Ron Brown is a "racial victimologist," and Roberta Achtenberg, the first openly gay public official confirmed by the United States Senate, is a "far-left, normal-hating lesbian activist." Maybe such outbursts mean Ron Paul really is a straight-talker. Or maybe they just mean he is a man filled with hate.

Corrections: This article originally misidentified ABC's Jake Tapper as Jack. In addition, Paul was a surgeon in the Air Force, not the Army, as the piece originally stated. It also stated that David Duke competed in the 1990 Louisiana Republican Senate primary. In fact, he was a Republican candidate in an open primary. The article has been corrected.

James Kirchick is an assistant editor at The New Republic.
Sueven
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3200
Joined: July 22, 2002, 12:36 pm

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Sueven »

Fine!
Last edited by Sueven on January 9, 2008, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I beat you by a minute, edit that shit!
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

I agree with you that his candidacy is over... however, it's not because of this, and none of that phases MY support for him.

I'm not offended or even disagree with the excerpts, especially considering the time in which they were written.

AIDS should have been dealt with differently. Quarantines, etc... It should not have been propped up and supported by the pharmaceutical industry. Everyone who had it should be dead by now and the disease should be extinct.

I miss the closet too. Honestly, I agree... Gays were better off keeping it under wraps, even though I now support gay marriage.

Destroying and looting property after a sporting event is inexcusable, and justifiably considered 'black rage.'

There is nothing that could be considered more 'straight-talk' than:
black representative Barbara Jordan is "the archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism."
Does anyone dispute that certain people in a minority use it to their advantage?...
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Xatrei
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2104
Joined: July 22, 2002, 4:28 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boringham, AL

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Xatrei »

I started to post about this yesterday, but decided against it because Ron Paul's campaign was quite dead without these revelations. Fund raising amongst whacko libertarians and even nuttier objectivists aside, no one took him seriously. Fortunately for this country, there aren't enough of these frothing lunatics (yet) to push the presidential aspirations of Ron Paul, and others like him, up close enough to sniff the realm of legitimacy. It might be fun to watch some of his adherents here defend Paul and his alleged legitimacy, though (edit: like the bigoted reply above mine, for example).
"When I was a kid, my father told me, 'Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it.'" - Russel Ziskey
User avatar
Tyek
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2288
Joined: December 9, 2002, 5:52 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Tyekk
PSN ID: Tyek
Location: UCLA and Notre Dame

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Tyek »

I agree with you that his candidacy is over... however, it's not because of this, and none of that phases MY support for him.

I'm not offended or even disagree with the excerpts, especially considering the time in which they were written.

AIDS should have been dealt with differently. Quarantines, etc... It should not have been propped up and supported by the pharmaceutical industry. Everyone who had it should be dead by now and the disease should be extinct.

I miss the closet too. Honestly, I agree... Gays were better off keeping it under wraps, even though I now support gay marriage.

Destroying and looting property after a sporting event is inexcusable, and justifiably considered 'black rage.'

There is nothing that could be considered more 'straight-talk' than:

Quote:
black representative Barbara Jordan is "the archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism."
Does anyone dispute that certain people in a minority use it to their advantage?...
This was supposed to be a funny post...right?
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
User avatar
Midnyte_Ragebringer
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7062
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Tyek wrote:
I agree with you that his candidacy is over... however, it's not because of this, and none of that phases MY support for him.

I'm not offended or even disagree with the excerpts, especially considering the time in which they were written.

AIDS should have been dealt with differently. Quarantines, etc... It should not have been propped up and supported by the pharmaceutical industry. Everyone who had it should be dead by now and the disease should be extinct.

I miss the closet too. Honestly, I agree... Gays were better off keeping it under wraps, even though I now support gay marriage.

Destroying and looting property after a sporting event is inexcusable, and justifiably considered 'black rage.'

There is nothing that could be considered more 'straight-talk' than:

Quote:
black representative Barbara Jordan is "the archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism."
Does anyone dispute that certain people in a minority use it to their advantage?...
This was supposed to be a funny post...right?
Too honest for you, huh Tyek?
User avatar
Tyek
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2288
Joined: December 9, 2002, 5:52 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Tyekk
PSN ID: Tyek
Location: UCLA and Notre Dame

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Tyek »

LOL sure Midnyte they are all brilliant ideas. I say we go a step farther, lets kill all gays!!! :roll:
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
User avatar
Midnyte_Ragebringer
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7062
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Tyek wrote:LOL sure Midnyte they are all brilliant ideas. I say we go a step farther, lets kill all gays!!! :roll:
No one said to do that. Don't make that atypical leap to idioacy.

Fash stated his opinion. His opinion should be respected as much as any others as long as it isn't as crazy as your leap.
User avatar
Leonaerd
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3023
Joined: January 10, 2005, 10:38 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Leonaerd »

black representative Barbara Jordan is "the archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism."
Bam. What's disgustingly true is that the truths within this quote will never be given a chance to be considered true. In any instance. Of any situation. Ever. Race is scary.
User avatar
Midnyte_Ragebringer
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7062
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Leonaerd wrote:
black representative Barbara Jordan is "the archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism."
Bam. What's disgustingly true is that the truths within this quote will never be given a chance to be considered true. In any instance. Of any situation. Ever. Race is scary.
Well said sir.
Bagar-
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 434
Joined: September 20, 2007, 5:09 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Bagar- »

His opinion should be respected as much as any others as long as it isn't as crazy as your leap.
His opinion should be respected as much as any other as long as it isn't something I disagree with
Fix't. Double standards, how I love thee.
Going out to play pool now with my fellow klan members. Have a nice night. - Midnyte
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

Don't know where you come up with that, Bagar- considering he has said many times thats how some of you think, that you'll only respect the opinion if you agree with it. Where's the example of the double-standard?
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Kaldaur
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1850
Joined: July 25, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Kaldaur
Location: Illinois

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Kaldaur »

I'm sorry, but the idea that all opinions have merit and should be 'respected' is something that came out of the PC movement, a movement which many of those now saying, "Respect his opinion!!!" completely abhor. The truth is, not all opinions have worth. Some are quite worthless.

For instance, Leonard's defense of Ron Paul talking about Barbara Jordan was 'spot on'. Do you even know who Barbara Jordan is? What district she was responsible for? What actions she took that made her the 'archetypical half-educated victimologist'? Or did you just agree with him because it fit with your anti-political correctness views? Now, if you happen to live in Jordan's district and remember when she was in Congress and what she did to deserve this label, okay. Then your opinion has merit. But if you're making a statement without backing it up, and just going off what Paul said, then no, your opinion does not have merit.

Stating "does anyone dispute that certain people in a minority use it to their advantage" as a fundamental truth about blacks is about as stupid as saying "does anyone dispute that certain people in a majority use it to their advantage" is a fundamental truth about whites. Once again, an irrelevant and idiotic opinion.

You can agree with Ron Paul and his views from these pre-1999 memos. No one is disputing that right. What we're disputing is whether that support deserves to be called a 'respectable opinion'. In this case, it doesn't.
User avatar
Xatrei
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2104
Joined: July 22, 2002, 4:28 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boringham, AL

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Xatrei »

I don't know anything about her, as she was before my time and off my radar as a representative from Texas anyway. According to her biography at congress.gov, however, she was as well educated as any other member of congress. Her educational background and professional experience was more likely prepare her for her time in congress than Dr. Paul's medical career. I think that the more likely explanation for Ron Paul's comments about her is that he's a small-minded, race-baiting bigot.
Last edited by Xatrei on January 9, 2008, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When I was a kid, my father told me, 'Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it.'" - Russel Ziskey
User avatar
Tyek
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2288
Joined: December 9, 2002, 5:52 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Tyekk
PSN ID: Tyek
Location: UCLA and Notre Dame

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Tyek »

Fash stated his opinion. His opinion should be respected as much as any others as long as it isn't as crazy as your leap.
I found most of his statements "crazy leaps" so who do you propose decides what is a crazy leap and what should be respected? You?

I never said he was not entitled to his opinion, I only hoped those specific opinions were jokes.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
Sueven
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3200
Joined: July 22, 2002, 12:36 pm

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Sueven »

Individual quotes can be cherry-picked which are somewhat defensible as speaking 'truth to power.'

Ron Paul personally can be defended on the basis of how much of this he knew about, what his role in the publication was, etc.

What is beyond dispute, in my eyes, is that if you read this article, and gain a sense of the general tone that is directed toward blacks, jews, and gays, and not find it offensive, you are a bigot. This is an opinion, obviously, but I don't think it's changing.

I've discovered how thoroughly useless talking about any issues of race is through public VV channels, so if I say anything else on this topic, it'll be about the political implications of the newsletter, and not whether the opinions of any VV members are defensible or not. Just wanted to throw my opinion out there.
User avatar
Midnyte_Ragebringer
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7062
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sueven wrote:Individual quotes can be cherry-picked which are somewhat defensible as speaking 'truth to power.'

Ron Paul personally can be defended on the basis of how much of this he knew about, what his role in the publication was, etc.

What is beyond dispute, in my eyes, is that if you read this article, and gain a sense of the general tone that is directed toward blacks, jews, and gays, and not find it offensive, you are a bigot. This is an opinion, obviously, but I don't think it's changing.

I've discovered how thoroughly useless talking about any issues of race is through public VV channels, so if I say anything else on this topic, it'll be about the political implications of the newsletter, and not whether the opinions of any VV members are defensible or not. Just wanted to throw my opinion out there.
No. You don't get away that easy. Quote which statements you think are racist, bigotted, etc. and state why they are such.
User avatar
Leonaerd
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3023
Joined: January 10, 2005, 10:38 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Leonaerd »

For instance, Leonard's defense of Ron Paul talking about Barbara Jordan was 'spot on'. Do you even know who Barbara Jordan is? What district she was responsible for? What actions she took that made her the 'archetypical half-educated victimologist'? Or did you just agree with him because it fit with your anti-political correctness views? Now, if you happen to live in Jordan's district and remember when she was in Congress and what she did to deserve this label, okay. Then your opinion has merit. But if you're making a statement without backing it up, and just going off what Paul said, then no, your opinion does not have merit.
It's not Barbara Jordan that I was talking about. I have no idea who she is. I was talking about the nature of race in a broad sense, and how it is used as cover, as ammunition, as so many things that it should not be used for.
Bagar-
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 434
Joined: September 20, 2007, 5:09 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Bagar- »

Fash wrote:Don't know where you come up with that, Bagar- considering he has said many times thats how some of you think, that you'll only respect the opinion if you agree with it. Where's the example of the double-standard?

I "came up with" that because he (midnyte), and others(funkmasterr), bitch that there's some kind of group (LIBRLZ) on these forums that disregards others people's (NEOCONZZ) opinions as being crazy, and believe that their opinions are as valid as any other and shouldn't be dismissed, but he just said that Tyek's opinion should be disregarded because it was crazy and, thus, invalid.

Make sense?

No it doesn't.

The opinion itself isn't what i'm pointing out here, but the double standard of midnyte not wanting to be written off as crazy, but writing people off as crazy at the same time.

No. You don't get away that easy. Quote which statements you think are racist, bigotted, etc. and state why they are such.

You're asking him to define bigotry, and quote the specific bigoted statements? I'm going to do it for him.
a person intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred or intolerance
opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions
if you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be
I'll disregard the Jordan quote, since it's already been discussed. I'd still like for you to show proof, Midnyte or Fash or Leo, that she was indeed a "archetypical half-educated victimologist," but of course you won't do that, because you can't.

Now, Pauls responsibility and involvment with the above quotes are debatable, but their intent is not. It's bigotry. If you'd like, we can make a poll or something, and let people vote on whether or not it constitutes bigotry. The fact is that bigotry is, in itself, not really definable from situation to situation, because it's not about what is being said or has been said, but the meaning behind the words; however, I think if you're being honest with yourself, you'll see that those statements weren't made out of anything other than intolerance and, perhaps not hatred, but a dislike and ignorance of blacks. If you think you can pull any other intent of meaning for those statements out of your ass, feel free.

Now i'm sure you'll come back and try to misconstrue the definition or claim that it isn't what it is, and that's fine, you'll just be following your typical, redundant pattern of posting that you have for so many years now of pretending the facts aren't right in front of you when they are.

I'll be waiting on the Jordan information, or for you to admit that you're all (fash, leo, mid) presumptious fucking morons.


PS: There's a dash at the end of my name because Bagar without a dash was taken. I registered here years before and forgot my password and couldn't reactive the account or some shit. Carry on!
Going out to play pool now with my fellow klan members. Have a nice night. - Midnyte
User avatar
Midnyte_Ragebringer
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7062
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Bagar- wrote:
I'll disregard the Jordan quote, since it's already been discussed. I'd still like for you to show proof, Midnyte or Fash or Leo, that she was indeed a "archetypical half-educated victimologist," but of course you won't do that, because you can't.
Why would we try to prove that? What does that have to do with the ascersion that this was a racist statement. I don't see anything racist being said in that statement.
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

Bagar- wrote:
opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions
if you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be
I'll disregard the Jordan quote, since it's already been discussed. I'd still like for you to show proof, Midnyte or Fash or Leo, that she was indeed a "archetypical half-educated victimologist," but of course you won't do that, because you can't.

Now, Pauls responsibility and involvment with the above quotes are debatable, but their intent is not. It's bigotry. If you'd like, we can make a poll or something, and let people vote on whether or not it constitutes bigotry. The fact is that bigotry is, in itself, not really definable from situation to situation, because it's not about what is being said or has been said, but the meaning behind the words; however, I think if you're being honest with yourself, you'll see that those statements weren't made out of anything other than intolerance and, perhaps not hatred, but a dislike and ignorance of blacks. If you think you can pull any other intent of meaning for those statements out of your ass, feel free.

Now i'm sure you'll come back and try to misconstrue the definition or claim that it isn't what it is, and that's fine, you'll just be following your typical, redundant pattern of posting that you have for so many years now of pretending the facts aren't right in front of you when they are.

I'll be waiting on the Jordan information, or for you to admit that you're all (fash, leo, mid) presumptious fucking morons.
This isn't about Jordan, it's about the comment. Regardless if she was or was not using her race or gender to her own favor, such a stereotype did and does exist, and whoever wrote the quote seems to think she fit it. I still don't see anything wrong with making that OBSERVATION, especially in a fucking newsletter.

I'm sorry, but race is not a sacred issue that can never be broached. We should be able to talk about it rationally without words like bigot or racist being flung around like monkey poo. You're worse than the global warming people who call skeptics 'holocaust deniers.'

I would love if 100% of Americans were interested in politics and education... that would be awesome. It's not the case though, and as an OBSERVATION, perhaps 15 years ago most blacks did not have sensible political opinions... There is no inherent intolerance or hatred in that sentence. Part of the problem here would be that they actually poll the groups separately (still do! thats the racist part! not the comment!)
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Boogahz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9438
Joined: July 6, 2002, 2:00 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: corin12
PSN ID: boog144
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Boogahz »

Fash wrote:I would love if 100% of Americans were interested in politics and education... that would be awesome. It's not the case though, and as an OBSERVATION, perhaps 15 years ago most blacks did not have sensible political opinions... There is no inherent intolerance or hatred in that sentence. Part of the problem here would be that they actually poll the groups separately (still do! thats the racist part! not the comment!)
You're proving his point right here.
User avatar
Tyek
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2288
Joined: December 9, 2002, 5:52 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Tyekk
PSN ID: Tyek
Location: UCLA and Notre Dame

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Tyek »

Yeah if they can't see the inherent issues in most of those statements, then I see no point in arguing them. I admit, I overexagerated the point on gays, but is it really that far from the truth? You are never going to make them see the facts here. They just want everyone to respect their opinion.

Racism is tossed around too much, I agree, but the comments attributed to that news letter show a pretty clear bias against a number of groups. It was Paul's newsletter right? Sorry but if something with my name goes on it, then I want to make sure it reflects my thoughts and beliefs.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

Boogahz wrote:
Fash wrote:I would love if 100% of Americans were interested in politics and education... that would be awesome. It's not the case though, and as an OBSERVATION, perhaps 15 years ago most blacks did not have sensible political opinions... There is no inherent intolerance or hatred in that sentence. Part of the problem here would be that they actually poll the groups separately (still do! thats the racist part! not the comment!)
You're proving his point right here.
i am?... by saying PERHAPS 15 YEARS AGO THAT WAS TRUE?

WHAT IF IT WAS, FUCKFACE? It doesn't even matter if it was! I am NOT proving his point with that statement, and you are an asshole, thx.
Tyek wrote: Racism is tossed around too much, I agree, but the comments attributed to that news letter show a pretty clear bias against a number of groups. It was Paul's newsletter right? Sorry but if something with my name goes on it, then I want to make sure it reflects my thoughts and beliefs.
I don't doubt that 15-29 years ago, those did reflect his thoughts and beliefs... on the same token, Obama was snorting coke around the same time-frame, does that make him a coke-head now?
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Boogahz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9438
Joined: July 6, 2002, 2:00 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: corin12
PSN ID: boog144
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Boogahz »

Fash wrote:
Boogahz wrote:
Fash wrote:I would love if 100% of Americans were interested in politics and education... that would be awesome. It's not the case though, and as an OBSERVATION, perhaps 15 years ago most blacks did not have sensible political opinions... There is no inherent intolerance or hatred in that sentence. Part of the problem here would be that they actually poll the groups separately (still do! thats the racist part! not the comment!)
You're proving his point right here.
i am?... by saying PERHAPS 15 YEARS AGO THAT WAS TRUE?

WHAT IF IT WAS, FUCKFACE? It doesn't even matter if it was! I am NOT proving his point with that statement, and you are an asshole, thx.
Tyek wrote: Racism is tossed around too much, I agree, but the comments attributed to that news letter show a pretty clear bias against a number of groups. It was Paul's newsletter right? Sorry but if something with my name goes on it, then I want to make sure it reflects my thoughts and beliefs.
I don't doubt that 15-29 years ago, those did reflect his thoughts and beliefs... on the same token, Obama was snorting coke around the same time-frame, does that make him a coke-head now?
How do you define a "sensible political opinion," and what has happened in the last 15 years to magically allow a segment of the US population to suddenly develop this "sensible political opinion" that you have defined yourself? "Perhaps" meant absolutely nothing to anyone except the voice in your head, as YOU are the one defining what is, and is not, a "sensible political opinion."
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

I'm not debating sensible political opinions. Now is not 15-29 years ago. We're talking about the comment and whether it's inherently racist... I don't think it is.

"Those dumb niggers don't know anything about politics" would be a racist hateful comment.

"Opinion polls show that most blacks don't have sensible political opinions" is an observation/opinion that has no inherent racism. It may be misguided, it may be entirely incorrect... but it's not hateful.

I repeat once more... You want to see racism? Look at the pollsters. They're the one's collecting this information and saying X% of Blacks do X. Polls should be color-blind, as ballots do not care.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Boogahz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9438
Joined: July 6, 2002, 2:00 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: corin12
PSN ID: boog144
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Boogahz »

Fash wrote:I'm not debating sensible political opinions. Now is not 15-29 years ago. We're talking about the comment and whether it's inherently racist... I don't think it is.

"Those dumb niggers don't know anything about politics" would be a racist hateful comment.

"Opinion polls show that most blacks don't have sensible political opinions" is an observation/opinion that has no inherent racism. It may be misguided, it may be entirely incorrect... but it's not hateful.

I repeat once more... You want to see racism? Look at the pollsters. They're the one's collecting this information and saying X% of Blacks do X. Polls should be color-blind, as ballots do not care.
It is not just the words you are using, it is the context in which you do so. Both say the same thing, and the second is just more hateful. By defining what is, and is not, sensible, you are setting your own viewpoints as greater than the people that you judge. Who is to say that YOU have a sensible opinion?
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

Boogahz wrote: It is not just the words you are using, it is the context in which you do so. Both say the same thing, and the second is just more hateful. By defining what is, and is not, sensible, you are setting your own viewpoints as greater than the people that you judge. Who is to say that YOU have a sensible opinion?
I understand what you're saying... I'm not defining sensible. I have avoided that entirely because I don't think it relates. A long long time ago, someone wrote that in a newsletter. It was that persons opinion and they had the right to share it. Outside of that, if it was being said now, I'd be right there with you in attacking it.

Straight-talk to me isn't 'telling the truth,' it's exposing your actual feelings on an issue. Problem is, most politicians will never do that... Hillary could be the most racist closet-KKK member in the world, and just because she didn't put it on paper, you're fine with that... I respect Obama for admitting his cocaine usage because it does the same thing... It humanized him and is a form of straight-talk. He trusted that we wouldn't do exactly what you're doing to here ('his candidacy is over!')
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by miir »

Hillary could be the most racist closet-KKK member in the world, and just because she didn't put it on paper, you're fine with that...
What the hell does that mean?
You can't pass judgement on an unknown.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

miir wrote:
Hillary could be the most racist closet-KKK member in the world, and just because she didn't put it on paper, you're fine with that...
What the hell does that mean?
You can't pass judgement on an unknown.
Sorry, I made a tyek-style leap there.... That particular point came from an offline conversation I had about political correctness. Just because someone keeps their nose clean, doesn't mean they aren't dirty fucks. I'm more afraid of that person than someone who's dirty laundry has been aired and likely helped them grow and change.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by miir »

because someone keeps their nose clean, doesn't mean they aren't dirty fucks.
So you are in favour of passing judgement on someone without having any proof of suspicion...
I'm more afraid of that person than someone who's dirty laundry has been aired and likely helped them grow and change
And your opinion of someone who may or may not be a dirty fuck is lower than someone who admits they are a dirty fuck?


I'm having a hard time understanding your logic.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Xatrei
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2104
Joined: July 22, 2002, 4:28 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boringham, AL

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Xatrei »

Logic? Since when has that been involved in anything the retard brigade espouses?

I'm saying this to those of you engaging Mid, Fash, etc.

Given their track record on other threads here, I just don't understand why other people still bother to engage these idiots. It's not worth the time it takes to type your replies because they go in one ear and out the other with these clowns. The opinions that they cling to are consistently half-brained and idiotic garbage that doesn't need to be refuted. To anyone but other mouth-breathing, half-wit bigots, it's obviously bunk. These guys are comfortable with their stupidity; they wrap themselves up in it proudly. They're not going to change, so discussing anything with them is an exercise in futility.

I won't respond to anything they have to say anymore on virtually any subject. We could be discussing the merits of long-haired vs. wire-haired standard dachshunds, and I probably wouldn't bother. I've found that simply refusing to interact with them makes VV a lot better. I still read some of the crap they spew because it is sometimes comical and good for a laugh. I encourage others not to bother as well.

Shun them. Be happy.
"When I was a kid, my father told me, 'Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it.'" - Russel Ziskey
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Fash »

miir wrote:
because someone keeps their nose clean, doesn't mean they aren't dirty fucks.
So you are in favour of passing judgement on someone without having any proof of suspicion...
I'm more afraid of that person than someone who's dirty laundry has been aired and likely helped them grow and change
And your opinion of someone who may or may not be a dirty fuck is lower than someone who admits they are a dirty fuck?
I'm having a hard time understanding your logic.
No. I am not in favor of passing judgment without proof. I am in favor of being suspicious. I am against being a naive sheep and trusting everyone at their word. Hillary is just an easy example to make horrible statements about... I am highly suspicious of any Clinton, for many reasons, not least of which is the death of Vince Foster.

It was reported that the girl who asked Hillary the question that made her choke up, voted for Obama... because days prior, she went to an Obama rally that made HER cry. I have a hard time understanding this logic... There is nothing a politician could say that would make me cry, as opposed to getting upset that they are trying to play to my emotions. Politics is not about emotion. That one situation right there makes me suspicious of Obama's campaign practices.

I love my country, my friends, and my family... yet I am suspicious of them all. I want to be able to trust politicians, but they have to be more open and honest for that to happen. They have to be less concerned with their own image as they are the 'change' they pledge to enact. Ron Paul is one of the few in my lifetime that I've seen make those, what some believe to be, 'kooky' statements that show an understanding of a problem and a desire to correct it... most importantly, his steadfast stance against the Federal Reserve banking system and his desire to decrease spending and federal control leaving some things up to the states.

Xatrei, You do not know what logic is, apparently.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Leonaerd
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3023
Joined: January 10, 2005, 10:38 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Leonaerd »

Xatrei wrote:Logic? Since when has that been involved in anything the retard brigade espouses?

I'm saying this to those of you engaging Mid, Fash, etc.

Given their track record on other threads here, I just don't understand why other people still bother to engage these idiots. It's not worth the time it takes to type your replies because they go in one ear and out the other with these clowns. The opinions that they cling to are consistently half-brained and idiotic garbage that doesn't need to be refuted. To anyone but other mouth-breathing, half-wit bigots, it's obviously bunk. These guys are comfortable with their stupidity; they wrap themselves up in it proudly. They're not going to change, so discussing anything with them is an exercise in futility.

I won't respond to anything they have to say anymore on virtually any subject. We could be discussing the merits of long-haired vs. wire-haired standard dachshunds, and I probably wouldn't bother. I've found that simply refusing to interact with them makes VV a lot better. I still read some of the crap they spew because it is sometimes comical and good for a laugh. I encourage others not to bother as well.

Shun them. Be happy.
You're retarded. Midnyte trolls sometimes but Fash has basically single-handedly revived the current events forums. Open your mind a little.
User avatar
Aslanna
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 12473
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Aslanna »

Leonaerd wrote:You're retarded. Midnyte trolls sometimes but Fash has basically single-handedly revived the current events forums. Open your mind a little.
What, by posting a bunch of articles written by others? Anyway, that's not the issue. Totally irrelevant in fact. It's the comments and positions that come after the posting of the articles.

At least that's what I gather.
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?

--
User avatar
Xatrei
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2104
Joined: July 22, 2002, 4:28 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boringham, AL

Re: Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party sets another record

Post by Xatrei »

Aslanna wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:You're retarded. Midnyte trolls sometimes but Fash has basically single-handedly revived the current events forums. Open your mind a little.
What, by posting a bunch of articles written by others? Anyway, that's not the issue. Totally irrelevant in fact. It's the comments and positions that come after the posting of the articles.

At least that's what I gather.
That's it precisely.
"When I was a kid, my father told me, 'Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it.'" - Russel Ziskey
Post Reply