VeeshanVault

Question:

Is there any notable difference between a line conditioner: http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?gro ... d=275&ly=h and a UPS that outputs power in a sine wave: http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310 or http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/produc ... MXL2U.html with regard to the way the regulate power output to the systems. I would assume that the pure line conditioner has no way to handle a brownout and that I would need to augment it with a UPS of its own. I'm looking for input on whether or not the line conditioner is completely pointless when using one of these UPS, or if it still useful. If it is still useful, I assume I could use a less expensive UPS and let the panamax handle the power regulation?

I understand that the Cyberpower system does not have all the same filters in place for the coax and whatnot. To be honest those are secondary concerns for me. My primary issue is that the apt complex I'm in sucks unholy ass when it comes to power. It would appear that there are only 2 circuits for the 3 bedroom apartment. Thats right I said 2. Unfortunately, the living room, kitchen and master bedroom all appear to be on the same circuit. When my power up my sub or my receiver, the lights dim. Similarly, when I flip a light on in the kitchen or master bedroom my speakers pop. I'm working on the assumption that I'm constantly near brown out if any thing other than my AV setup is powered up, and that I'm getting high and low spikes when lights go on/off.

Somali wrote: I'm looking for input on whether or not the line conditioner is completely pointless when using one of these UPS, or if it still useful. .

I have used both in industrial applications. Basicly if you are looking for brownout/blackout service on your PC an UPS is the way to go. A UPS regulates and conditions the power so an additional line conditioner is of no value. Don't undersize it but also don't go overboard. It will suck up power. (where as a line conditioner is passive)

If the budget does not allow it, then go cheap!

Best way to do this is a UPS backup (dirt cheap one) that has enough juice to handle whatever you are powering, along with an AVR (Auto Voltage Regulator) unit. They are really cheap. They will cure voltage fluctuations (dirty power), but nothing can handle brown outs besides an actual UPS. edit: I mispoke here. A brown out to me is a loss of a phase of power...not just an undervoltage condition. Voltage regulators will correct an undervoltage, but if a phase on your incoming house power drops, and that is the phase this particular circuit is fed from, then obviously it will treat it like an outage.

Beware of the cheap UPS strips though. They do not voltage regulate, they look for an outage, they do not "sense" voltage fluctuations...hence they are cheap and need a separate voltage regulator. The more expensive UPS units, that specifically say things like "Server UPS" or some such, will typically have an AVR system in it. It will say AVR on the package somewhere if it is in the unit...its a big selling point.

Typical UPS w/ AVR

Typical Voltage stabilizer stand alone <as cheap (inexpensive) as they get, really.

I was under the impression that there was also a difference in the Voltage regulation methodologies. Some say regulated, some say simulated sine wave, others say true sine wave.

Honestly, I don't have an issue dropping money for a good ups and a good voltage regulator like a panamax, but at the same time, I don't want to spend money pointlessly either. I would like the DLP to live through the supremely crappy power conditions we have at the apartment we are in though.

Just get the UPS with an AVR. Sine wave, schmine wave...the regulator that I put above is so cheap because it is just a "buck n' boost" transformer inside of a case. No sine waves or nothing, it just handles fluctuations in voltage and then "steps it up" or "steps it down" to 110/120v. In essence, it "recreates" the voltage, and sine patterns inherent to it. I'm not really sure how the ones you mentioned take place, I'd have to research that. But whenever you have a transformer and a capacitor involved, you will be recreating the frequency and voltage so that it remains constant compared to what it is being fed with. So I assume, without researching it, that a buck n boost transformer is a true sine method.

All the mumbo jumbo stuff from APC and Monster is just marketing, really, plus really nice monitoring features. They are also much prettier, but you can hide the UPS behind your TV, so no worries there. That real expensive stuff is for "mission critical" crap. So I would save the $1199.99 dollars and buy a $200 UPS with AVR.

I use an APC 1100, and it keeps my puter, dell widescreen, all my network gear, and speakers power up and playing for 15-20 mins. Also prevents the puter from dying when the power flickers, which sounds like your problem.

Somewhat. I've had UPS on my PCs for a while now because I didn't want my gaming to get interrupted by power outages in the wonderful world of Florida. This is the first time I've moved somewhere that turning my lights on and off has an audible/visual affect on my AV setup though. From the perspective of my PC, I wouldn't care about it other than the fact that it screws with gaming. Power supplies these days are pretty solid, and if you replace it its not that expensive. If it kills my new DLP I'll be a lil more than irked. I went ahead and grabbed a 1500VA UPS for the time being though. I may or may not get one of the Panamax type units somewhere down the road to further refine the Voltage to the components. Being able to segment out specific voltages to the various components sounds like an interesting idea. Of course, if all the components have identical Voltages it won't matter than much.

masteen wrote:I use an APC 1100, and it keeps my puter, dell widescreen, all my network gear, and speakers power up and playing for 15-20 mins. Also prevents the puter from dying when the power flickers, which sounds like your problem.

i have basically the same setup.. and another smaller one for my cable modem and router which is in another room. Possibly the best purchase I have ever made in my life. Lots of storms here this past couple of weeks, I rode through at LEAST a dozen power flickers. It feels pretty good to say "shit. my power just went out again" in vent and keep on playing


it comes in handy for extended power outages too because you basically have a gigantic charged battery with a power outlet on it. great for phones and power efficient fans/lights


Life in Florida, brother.

Be aware that if you have digital cable it generally doesn't like going through the coax protectors on a ups or power strip. Not speaking for all of them, but the one I have seems to take too much off the signal strength.

I recommend you stick with apc over cyberpower, once again just my personal experience but the cyberpower unit I had literally blew up in my face when I tried to power it up after a late night power outage that drained the battery. My various apc units have never given me a problem and seemed to last longer.