Smart Car

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miir
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

Boogahz wrote:You would have to test every car against every other car made then. How do you know that Car A will crumple in the same place as Car H in an impact with Car B? Heck, what about Car K, where will it crumple, and where will it resist doing so when it impacts your car?
Because how the car crumples is pretty much irellevant.

They test passenger compartment integrity.
They test for intrusion into the passenger compartment.

They perform what are essentially a worst case scenario crash tests.
If they were to perform crash tests that mirrior reality, they would be testing minor fender benders for months.
A head on crash @ 40-50 miles per hour is the worst case scenario in terms of the amount of energy an automobile will have to absorb.


You should take some time and read up on the practices and standards used in crash tests.
It's really quite interesting.


Sure, if you decide to run head first into a brick wall then the tests are pretty conclusive, but that's rarely the case.
Name another type of accident (aside form head on and t-bone) that will cause more potential damage to a car and it's occupants.
Crash tests rarely (because it would be way to costly) take into consideration, angles of impact, varying speeds of not only the tested car, but the object it's hitting, using car vs car instead of a wall or whatever they use, the sizes of cars that could hit the car, etc. that happen in almost every real life crash.
Do you think that they crash a single car?


They actually test at different speeds and angles.

But as for crashing a vehicle into another vehicle...
Do you understand the concept of worst case scenarios?
Why would they crash a car into another car when they can simulate a more severe impact by crashing it into a solid block of concrete? A car hitting a solid, unyielding object will be required to absorb the full force of the impact. With a car hitting another car, the impact of the crash is distributed between the two vehicles. The results would be about as accurate as crashing a car into a block of jello.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

I was supporting your point Miir. I just didn't hit quote on the previous post which I was addressing.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

Boogahz wrote:I was supporting your point Miir. I just didn't hit quote on the previous post which I was addressing.
I fail at reading comprehension. :(
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Lynks »

miir wrote:Do you think that they crash a single car?
To add to that, I can't remember where I heard/read this but car companies, when they release a new year/model, have to donate around 30 cars for these crash tests. A lot of testing is done.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

Lynks wrote:
miir wrote:Do you think that they crash a single car?
To add to that, I can't remember where I heard/read this but car companies, when they release a new year/model, have to donate around 30 cars for these crash tests. A lot of testing is done.
Some may donate vehicles, but most don't. They do not donate them to the NHTSA or IIHS at least. The vehicles are purchased from dealers.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Zamtuk »

miir wrote:
Sure, if you decide to run head first into a brick wall then the tests are pretty conclusive, but that's rarely the case.
Name another type of accident (aside form head on and t-bone) that will cause more potential damage to a car and it's occupants.
Running off the road into a ditch or what have you, rolling the car x amount of times. (which yes, I am fully aware they do test for that, but you did ask)
miir wrote:
Crash tests rarely (because it would be way to costly) take into consideration, angles of impact, varying speeds of not only the tested car, but the object it's hitting, using car vs car instead of a wall or whatever they use, the sizes of cars that could hit the car, etc. that happen in almost every real life crash.
Do you think that they crash a single car?


They actually test at different speeds and angles.

But as for crashing a vehicle into another vehicle...
Do you understand the concept of worst case scenarios?
Why would they crash a car into another car when they can simulate a more severe impact by crashing it into a solid block of concrete? A car hitting a solid, unyielding object will be required to absorb the full force of the impact. With a car hitting another car, the impact of the crash is distributed between the two vehicles. The results would be about as accurate as crashing a car into a block of jello.
I absolutely understand the concept of physics, and also worst case scenarios. Perhaps you can go back and read the point I was actually making by quoting an earlier comment you made about the crash tests not mirroring reality. Crash tests don't mirror reality, and they can't.

Example: I was in an accident where a car blasted me in the front quarter panel at roughly 45-50 mph sending me head first into a boulder (I made a post about it, I believe). When I hit the boulder my head went through the windshield after tearing the seatbelt from the column. I walked away with a headache, but was alright. The car had a 4 star safety rating for front driver impact. I'm fairly certain that test wasn't ran, ever.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Winnow »

Add another mini car to the list. This one isn't as close to production as the Smart Car though:

Nissan Pivo 2

Story and pics if red-x'd:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Ne ... =122927#10


Image

Image

Image

The body can rotate 360 degrees

Image

Image

I'll have room for two passengers!

I would need some elbow rests though. Don't like chairs without arms!
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

From the seat layout, you should be able to use the legs of your passengers as armrests!
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Aslanna »

Winnow wrote:Add another mini car to the list. This one isn't as close to production as the Smart Car though
The Smart has been in production for years so probably not!
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

Aslanna wrote:
Winnow wrote:Add another mini car to the list. This one isn't as close to production as the Smart Car though
The Smart has been in production for years so probably not!
Ten years, to be exact.

Kinda pointless to compare a concept to an actual vehicle.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Winnow »

I'm talking about product availability where it counts, In the U.S!

I could give a damn if the Smart Car's been available in France or some other goofy country.

You can buy an import Smart Car here but only reservations so far for sales:

http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums ... ay.php?f=3
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Winnow »

VW making this vcar a reality in 2010

235 MPG:

http://gas2.org/2008/05/07/vw-confirms- ... y-in-2010/

Image

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Re: Smart Car

Post by Noysyrump »

Jesus crist that looks dangerouse...


Dude, I think you hit something...


Nuh uhh... that little speed bump? Oh shit. That was a car.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Clatis »

They had an article on the smart car in the May 08 edition of Car & Driver. They complimented it on how much space the drive and passenger had, having enough space to comfortably fit a 6ft+ person. Also they said it had a very nice interrior.

I saw one in our local mall yesterday and at first glance I thought they were registering to win a golf cart... It's tiny... really tiny. I don't think I would feel safe sitting in that parked at a stop light and staring up at one of those lifted trucks/suvs.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/14/autos/s ... tm?cnn=yes
Tiny Smart car gets crash test kudos
The Smart ForTwo earns the top rating for front and side impact protection in crash tests by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The ultra-tiny Smart ForTwo earned top marks in side and front crash tests, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety said Wednesday. The two-seat car did not earn the Institute's Top Safety Pick designation, however, because it didn't earn top marks for whiplash protection.

But even if the ForTwo improved its whiplash protection, it would not be named a Top Safety Pick, said IIHS spokesman Russ Rader. The institute does not have a specific size requirement, but the ForTwo is simply too small to be considered safe under all conditions, including highway driving, he said

Smart would not comment on the IIHS's decision regarding the car's eligibility to be a Top Safety Pick.

The ForTwo, which is about three feet shorter and 700 pounds lighter than a Mini Cooper, earned the best possible rating of "Good" for front and side impact protection in tests by the IIHS, a private group funded by insurance companies.

The ForTwo received an "Acceptable" rating, which is the second best possible, for whiplash protection in rear impacts. Technically, that would prevent it from getting a "Top Safety Pick" from the IIHS.

The ForTwo is the smallest car the IIHS has ever tested. "All things being equal in safety, bigger and heavier is always better," said institute president Adrian Lund in an statement. "But among the smallest cars, the engineers at Smart did their homework and designed a high level of safety into a very small package."

The ForTwo, which the IIHS classifies as a "microcar," has very little crush space in its short front end. The institute credits the car's seatbelts and airbags with helping minimize crash forces on the occupants. The crash test dummy's head hit the steering wheel through the airbag during the front crash test, but the impact wasn't hard enough to affect the final rating, said spokesman Rader.

"The IIHS frontal crash test is conducted at a higher speed than required by federal safety standards, and it's an offset test that replicates most real-world crashes. The smart's sophisticated safety management system performed as designed," said Smart's Schembri.

A different kind of test
The federal government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration conducted different crash tests, whose results were released in April and showed some weak points.

In the NHTSA front crash test, the ForTwo earned the top rating of "Five Stars" for driver protection, but just "Three Stars" for passenger protection. Few vehicles today get ratings as low as three stars in NHTSA's front crash tests.

The IIHS uses a different type of front crash test and does not place a crash test dummy in the passenger seat. While NHTSA tests vehicles by crashing them straight into an immovable barrier, the institute crashes vehicles into a deformable barrier so that just part of the vehicle's front end strikes it.

Results from front impact crash tests, no matter how they are conducted, cannot be compared between cars of different sizes. In a real-world front crash, occupants in a smaller vehicle would experience greater crash forces when hitting a larger vehicle going in the opposite direction.

The Smart ForTwo earned the best possible ratings in side impact tests conducted by both NHTSA and IIHS, but in both cases, the door became unlatched during the crash tests. While that didn't affect the final score in either case, it's not ideal, said IIHS's Lund.

Smart is a product of Germany's Daimler (DAI) (DAI), which also makes Mercedes-Benz luxury cars.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Fash »

Choice quotes which re-enforce the opinion stated by several members:
the ForTwo is simply too small to be considered safe under all conditions, including highway driving
"All things being equal in safety, bigger and heavier is always better,"
The crash test dummy's head hit the steering wheel through the airbag during the front crash test, but the impact wasn't hard enough to affect the final rating, said spokesman Rader.
In the NHTSA front crash test, the ForTwo earned the top rating of "Five Stars" for driver protection, but just "Three Stars" for passenger protection. Few vehicles today get ratings as low as three stars in NHTSA's front crash tests.
The IIHS uses a different type of front crash test and does not place a crash test dummy in the passenger seat.
Looks pretty good for in the city or for someone who doesn't drive much, but I wouldn't drive one.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Funkmasterr »

Fash wrote:Choice quotes which re-enforce the opinion stated by several members:
the ForTwo is simply too small to be considered safe under all conditions, including highway driving
"All things being equal in safety, bigger and heavier is always better,"
The crash test dummy's head hit the steering wheel through the airbag during the front crash test, but the impact wasn't hard enough to affect the final rating, said spokesman Rader.
In the NHTSA front crash test, the ForTwo earned the top rating of "Five Stars" for driver protection, but just "Three Stars" for passenger protection. Few vehicles today get ratings as low as three stars in NHTSA's front crash tests.
The IIHS uses a different type of front crash test and does not place a crash test dummy in the passenger seat.
Looks pretty good for someone who doesn't drive much or someone who stays off the highways, but I wouldn't drive one.
Well it sounds like the crash test ratings on this one aren't as good as the smart car, however I maintain my stance on this topic. There is no fucking way I would feel safe in one of these matchbox cars, ever.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

Funkmasterr wrote:Well it sounds like the crash test ratings on this one aren't as good as the smart car, however I maintain my stance on this topic. There is no fucking way I would feel safe in one of these matchbox cars, ever.
The ForTwo IS a Smart car.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Funkmasterr »

Boogahz wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Well it sounds like the crash test ratings on this one aren't as good as the smart car, however I maintain my stance on this topic. There is no fucking way I would feel safe in one of these matchbox cars, ever.
The ForTwo IS a Smart car.
Oh ok, well I was referring to the original one this thread started about then :)
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Winnow »

Another electric car option!

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/06/10/tra ... neo-smera/

seems a little expensive though unlike the original Smart Car I posted on this thread.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

Winnow wrote:Another electric car option!

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/06/10/tra ... neo-smera/

seems a little expensive though unlike the original Smart Car I posted on this thread.
That thing is basically a 4 wheeled motorcycle.
At least the Smart can carry 2 passengers and a reasonable amount of luggage.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I would happily buy a smart car. I'm seeing them more and more around here, and they always draw attention. A topped out model is less than 17k and a basic model is less than 12k!

I'm the proud owner of 2 SUVs right now, so no new cars for me until one of these is paid off.

Well, I'll likely get a two seater sports car next. Maybe a smart car after that?
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Funkmasterr »

I'm going to buy a motorcycle.. I'd still feel better on that than in one of these. Hopefully I can afford to buy a used bike soon, cause I'm sick of spending 300+ dollars a month on gas.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Motorcycles won't work in winter, at least not where I live!

A Smart Car is infinitely safer than a motorcycle.

I have my car picked out already.

http://www.smartusa.com/smart-fortwo-cabriolet.aspx

EDIT: Here's a link to a modified Smart, check out the 45 sec mark! Some of these buggers do 135+ mph :)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e2e_1202061482
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

Haha, that's awesome!
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Funkmasterr »

Everyone that drives one of these should trick it out and drive like that. In traffic.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Aslanna »

Funkmasterr wrote:I'm going to buy a motorcycle.. I'd still feel better on that than in one of these. Hopefully I can afford to buy a used bike soon, cause I'm sick of spending 300+ dollars a month on gas.
So you're saying you'd honestly feel safer on a motorcycle than in a Smart Car? Seriously? Wow... Well in that case I hope you've filled out your organ donor card. Make sure to drive extra fast in the rain. There's people out there than probably need them more than you.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I'm going to buy a motorcycle.. I'd still feel better on that than in one of these. Hopefully I can afford to buy a used bike soon, cause I'm sick of spending 300+ dollars a month on gas.
So you're saying you'd honestly feel safer on a motorcycle than in a Smart Car? Seriously? Wow... Well in that case I hope you've filled out your organ donor card. Make sure to drive extra fast in the rain. There's people out there than probably need them more than you.

I see "better" not "safer." Hopefully that is what he meant.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I'm going to buy a motorcycle.. I'd still feel better on that than in one of these. Hopefully I can afford to buy a used bike soon, cause I'm sick of spending 300+ dollars a month on gas.
So you're saying you'd honestly feel safer on a motorcycle than in a Smart Car? Seriously? Wow... Well in that case I hope you've filled out your organ donor card. Make sure to drive extra fast in the rain. There's people out there than probably need them more than you.

I would feel about equally safe on the two, with the smart car having only a slight edge because you are enclosed (even though with it's size I wouldn't count on that to matter much), but I would feel infinitely less gay driving a motorcycle around as opposed to any of these "smart cars".
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Canelek »

I'll buy one as soon as it has full integration with a Segway and perhaps a wheatgrass juicer.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Canelek »

As much as I hate clowncar-like smartcars, I would rather be in one of those than ripped apart in a motorcycle accident. Granted, I have a rather intense dislike for 'bikes due to seeing far too much carnage over the years.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

no one rides or drives to be in an accident. I have ~ 10k miles riding experience so it's not a lot as I don't commute with it but I enjoy it so much more than driving a car. But, I don't ride to put myself in danger ie. zig zagging, or excessive speeding, it's enjoyable as is.

It's kind of cool now that my wife can tell a good rider from a bad one. Things like staying out of car blind spots she took for granted before from a good rider but scared the shit out of her from a bad one.

The smart car is safe enough. It's hard to hit because it's so small and it's easy to push aside. So unless it gets pinned, I'm sure it's fine. Financially, the thing makes no sense. It has shit utility, shit engine, shit suspension, and a real shitty tranny. I'd be in a Fit before you could say "sm" if I had to choose. What, mpg of 33/40 compared to 27/33, big deal.

Seeing quite a few of them around here though, so there is some "gotta have it" factor going on.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

I'd be in a Fit before you could say "sm" if I had to choose. What, mpg of 33/40 compared to 27/33, big deal.
I'd say 20% better gas mileage is a pretty big deal.
Depending on your driving habits, you could save more than $50 a month.

Funk says he spends 300+ a month in his g35 so a Smart would probably save him close to $125/month... $1500/year.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

miir wrote:
I'd be in a Fit before you could say "sm" if I had to choose. What, mpg of 33/40 compared to 27/33, big deal.
I'd say 20% better gas mileage is a pretty big deal.
Depending on your driving habits, you could save more than $50 a month.

Funk says he spends 300+ a month in his g35 so a Smart would probably save him close to $125/month... $1500/year.
A g35 is the car you're comparing it to? should i even have to mention that the cars have totally different mission statements. Compare it to a Fit or even a Yaris 2-door. better yet, if you're going to throw away any utility whatsoever (something the smart does), buy a Honda Insight if you can find one. It's not as if the smart is a really cheap off the lot car. Yaris is comparable and the fit not much more. Both have better engines, both have far more utility, and both have trannys that put the smart to shame.

Where do I put the baby seat? I'm also hearing that combined driving isn't giving much past 32. If this is the road you want to go down, get a fucking $2,500 Tata Nano.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

Uhhh, I'm goin off the gas mileage numbers that you listed in your post.

33/40 is roughly 20% better than 27/40.
If you spend $200-300 a month on gas driving a Fit, you'd save $50 by driving a Smart



Who the hell is talking about utilty?
The Smart is a commuter car... hell you can't even fit a set of golf clubs in the back.
A stupid choice for an only car.
The best choice for a commuter car.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Boogahz »

miir wrote:A stupid choice for an only car.
The best choice for a commuter car.
I don't know, but the price point still makes it out of reach for a commuter car. IMHO
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Smart Car is a people mover, nothing more. For many people, that's all they require. I drove a 2 seater for 7 years and never once regretted it. Of course, that thing had a large trunk and I was single :)

In less than 5 years, I'm betting these things will be common all over the country. With a basic model costing less than 12k, I don't see anything near as economical. I read a report expressing dissappointment when comparing the Smart Car to a Prius because the Prius gets almost the same milage, yet offers 5 passanger seating and more room in general. They neglet to mention that a Prius starts out 10k more than a Smart Car. I think the Smart car has decent storage for it's size. You can a place golf clubs in it :P
The smart fortwo has a rear storage area that can accommodate active lifestyles. Surprisingly, the fortwo has 8 cubic feet of storage space – 12 feet if you load up to the roof line. This area can easily fit numerous bags of groceries, gym bags and other items that are commonly transported every day, including golf clubs! The rear storage area can also accommodate many sizes of luggage making trips to the airport convenient.

The front passenger seat also folds down creating additional space for other items such as skis.

My wife and I will use our next "mini" vehicle as pure transportation. As I said, we have 2 SUVs that we will be keeping, but just going to and from work, running errands around town, or any driving we would do alone or with only two people would be done in the mini.

Here's another good Smart Car video. It's smashing into a concrete wall at 70mph :)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=323_1187518073
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

miir wrote:Uhhh, I'm goin off the gas mileage numbers that you listed in your post.

33/40 is roughly 20% better than 27/40.
If you spend $200-300 a month on gas driving a Fit, you'd save $50 by driving a Smart



Who the hell is talking about utilty?
The Smart is a commuter car... hell you can't even fit a set of golf clubs in the back.
A stupid choice for an only car.
The best choice for a commuter car.
I'm pretty sure I read that the smart requires premium fuel which defintely eats into that advantage.

I also disagree about the best commuter car angle. I've read that the car feels unsteady at highway speeds, feeling especially so over bridges. It's acceleration is awful so getting on and off ramps is supposedly nerveracking.

Most every car requires at least a little utility, otherwise you're better off riding a motorcycle. Better yet, get a civic hybrid or a Prius. More expensive, sure, but they are better cars as a commuter and as an only car.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Aardor »

Chidoro wrote: I'm pretty sure I read that the smart requires premium fuel which defintely eats into that advantage.
http://www.cartalk.com/content/features ... tions.html
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

I'm not basing my opinions on what I have read on the internet.
I'm basing my opinions on driving one of them over the course of a couple of months last fall and early this summer.
I'm pretty sure I read that the smart requires premium fuel which defintely eats into that advantage.
It doesn't.
I've read that the car feels unsteady at highway speeds
It doesn't.
It's acceleration is awful so getting on and off ramps is supposedly nerveracking.
0-60 in around 12 seconds.
Nothing nervewracking about it... but then again, I also drove in the 80s when a 10 second 0-60 time was considered pretty good.





If you want to bitch about anything, bitch about the gearbox on the Smart which is right fucking awful.
Or bitch about how noisy the thing is. At highway speeds it's near deafening.

Better yet, get a civic hybrid or a Prius. More expensive, sure,
They aren't just more expensive, the are twice as expensive.
You cant compare a 12k car to a 24k car.
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Re: Smart Car

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miir wrote:I'm not basing my opinions on what I have read on the internet.
I'm basing my opinions on driving one of them over the course of a couple of months last fall and early this summer.
Fair enough, I would judge your opinion of the vehicle more than a review that spent but a weekend pushing it.
I'm pretty sure I read that the smart requires premium fuel which defintely eats into that advantage.
It doesn't.
It is recommended. If your compression ration recommends it,(especially in a 70 hp vehicle, you probably should do it).
I've read that the car feels unsteady at highway speeds
It doesn't.
I'm sure the accounts of riding over the bridges that link NJ to NY are completely unfounded.
It's acceleration is awful so getting on and off ramps is supposedly nerveracking.
0-60 in around 12 seconds. Nothing nervewracking about it... but then again, I also drove in the 80s when a 10 second 0-60 time was considered pretty good.
I did as well (lest you forget my age or driving experience), but cars were not designed like they are today. If you are going to try and tell me that speed relative to your surroundings isn't as important as speed in general, then you're just trying to be silly.



If you want to bitch about anything, bitch about the gearbox on the Smart which is right fucking awful.
Or bitch about how noisy the thing is. At highway speeds it's near deafening.
I mentioned that I have read it was terrible. Being panned from C&D to Consumer Reports led me to this being a probable issue.

Better yet, get a civic hybrid or a Prius. More expensive, sure,
They aren't just more expensive, the are twice as expensive.
You cant compare a 12k car to a 24k car.
[/quote]

The version w/ the air conditioning lists at $14,235. no options, just the passiosn version that provides the AC. Civic hybrid $23,270 not $28,470. And yes, there is a difference from that and "twice as expensive". And besides, if you're that much of a fucking chisler that cost of a vehicle in combination to the gas charges bugs you, purchase a used something/anything or ride motorcycle.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

Aardor wrote:
Chidoro wrote: I'm pretty sure I read that the smart requires premium fuel which defintely eats into that advantage.
http://www.cartalk.com/content/features ... tions.html
I'm well aware of what premium fuel is used/recommended for. While the little engine may have knock prevention in it, if the engine asks for it because of it's compression ratio, it's not useless.
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Re: Smart Car

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The version w/ the air conditioning lists at $14,235. no options, just the passiosn version that provides the AC. Civic hybrid $23,270 not $28,470.
The base price for a Smart Four Two is $12,190.00
Not $14,235
That's with A/C
Price one here: http://www.smartusa.com/

The base price of the Civic Hybrid is $23,270

That's pretty freakin close (91%) to being double the price.


And besides, if you're that much of a fucking chisler that cost of a vehicle in combination to the gas charges bugs you, purchase a used something or ride motorcycle.
Way to completely miss the point.

You can't name a single vehicle that is as economical in terms of initial price and operating costs that has the flexibility and utility of a Smart.


The car fills a niche.
A niche that is a lot fucking bigger than you realise.

As fast as Americans have soured on big SUVs, I think they will warm up to mico urban commuters like the Smart.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

Fairweather Pure wrote:Smart Car is a people mover, nothing more. For many people, that's all they require. I drove a 2 seater for 7 years and never once regretted it. Of course, that thing had a large trunk and I was single :)

In less than 5 years, I'm betting these things will be common all over the country. With a basic model costing less than 12k, I don't see anything near as economical. I read a report expressing dissappointment when comparing the Smart Car to a Prius because the Prius gets almost the same milage, yet offers 5 passanger seating and more room in general. They neglet to mention that a Prius starts out 10k more than a Smart Car. I think the Smart car has decent storage for it's size. You can a place golf clubs in it :P
I have no idea if you'll be correct, but I doubt that this car will be widespread like a prius. For one, the smart get a 36 combined mpg and the prius a 46. For two, the car is far more flexible. Families swapping cars for the day isn't always convenient or even doable for a lot of households. The prius continues to sell because it "works" for a lot of families. It's big enough to put in car seats, it has flexible storage, unprecedented mpg, and still feels like it can keep up w/ traffic well. I just don't see that with the smart. If a car that small and is going to make you give up any sort of utility (like picking up a friend from the airport for instance), speed, and handling, yet not have the worry of a battery in your car as a hybrid, the thing should be getting 40 mpg combined at least.
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Re: Smart Car

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miir wrote:
The version w/ the air conditioning lists at $14,235. no options, just the passiosn version that provides the AC. Civic hybrid $23,270 not $28,470.
The base price for a Smart Four Two is $12,190.00
Not $14,235
That's with A/C
Price one here: http://www.smartusa.com/

The base price of the Civic Hybrid is $23,270

That's pretty freakin close (91%) to being double the price.
http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options ... tore=false

$14,235 is the best price in my area. 2-door passion coupe. And since you feel like throwing the numbers around, 63.4%.


And besides, if you're that much of a fucking chisler that cost of a vehicle in combination to the gas charges bugs you, purchase a used something or ride motorcycle.
Way to completely miss the point.

You can't name a single vehicle that is as economical in terms of initial price and operating costs that has the flexibility and utility of a Smart.
your point is that if you are going to be a chisler about money, buying a used car doesn't fill that niche you think the smart is going to take up? fuel efficient used cars are the hot ticket now. Why would someone buy a fucking smart that get nominal upgrades in fuel economy while giving up so much and not save that $6k buying a 2002 civic or corolla?

The car fills a niche.
A niche that is a lot fucking bigger than you realise.

As fast as Americans have soured on big SUVs, I think they will warm up to mico urban commuters like the Smart.
The civic beat the f-150 this past month in sales for gods sake. It's the first time a foreign car had the highest sales in one month I think (an honor bestowed upon only the f-150 and the taurus I believe). So I know we will purchase small cars. But a civic can be a family car and a commuter car just like the prius or any number of smaller cars that are sold here. The smart can't be.
Last edited by Chidoro on June 16, 2008, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smart Car

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$14,235 is the best price in my area. 2-door passion coupe. And since you feel like throwing the numbers around, 63.4%.
The Passion is not the base model.
Apples to Oranges.

your point is that if you are going to be a chisler about money, buying a used car doesn't fill that niche you think the smart is going to take up? fuel efficient used cars are the hot ticket now. Why would someone buy a fucking smart that get nominal upgrades in fuel economy while giving up so much and not save that $6k buying a 2002 civic or corolla?
What the hell is a chisler anyway?
The best I could figure is a chisler being a con artist.

I'm not sure how you can consider a 25-35% increase in fuel economy to be nominal.

And in the Toronto area, you'll find a 2002 Corolla for 9-12k.. a Civic will run you 11-14k. Even in the states a 2002 Civic in decent condition and under 100k miles will run you close to 10k.

You can drive a Smart off the lot for $14,900... that's not including the 2k government rebate.

I'm not even going to bring up the obvious reliability and warranty advantages of the Smart.


But a civic can be a family car and a commuter car just like the prius or any number of smaller cars that are sold here.
Are you being thick headed on purpose?

Nobody is talking about the Smart being a family car... it's an urban commuter.


Why are you still trying to compare 22k+ cars with a 12k car?
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

miir wrote:
$14,235 is the best price in my area. 2-door passion coupe. And since you feel like throwing the numbers around, 63.4%.
The Passion is not the base model.
Apples to Oranges.
Passion has the little nessecities like air conditioning and and fucking radio. apples to oranges?


your point is that if you are going to be a chisler about money, buying a used car doesn't fill that niche you think the smart is going to take up? fuel efficient used cars are the hot ticket now. Why would someone buy a fucking smart that get nominal upgrades in fuel economy while giving up so much and not save that $6k buying a 2002 civic or corolla?
What the hell is a chisler anyway?
The best I could figure is a chisler being a con artist.

I'm not sure how you can consider a 25-35% increase in fuel economy to be nominal.

And in the Toronto area, you'll find a 2002 Corolla for 9-12k.. a Civic will run you 11-14k. Even in the states a 2002 Civic in decent condition and under 100k miles will run you close to 10k.

You can drive a Smart off the lot for $14,900... that's not including the 2k government rebate.

I'm not even going to bring up the obvious reliability and warranty advantages of the Smart.
chisler is being a cheaper fucker, trying to get something for little to nothing.

I can purchase either of the 2002 C's for 8-10K. Warranty advantages a given; reliability, not so much.
But a civic can be a family car and a commuter car just like the prius or any number of smaller cars that are sold here.
Are you being thick headed on purpose?

Nobody is talking about the Smart being a family car... it's an urban commuter.

Why are you still trying to compare 22k+ cars with a 12k car?[/quote]

I am comparing possible competitors to the smart. They will include new small family cars with competitive gas mileage (16-19k range that, again can be used in more than one fashion), hybrids that are, both, useful and have far better gas mileage, and proven reliable small used cars (in the 8-10k range) that are significantly less expensive, still more flexible, and not a detriment to your full bill dollar. Not to mention, yet again, that a motorcycle or scooter as a urban commuter. And since you've decided to throw in actually driving around a city, public fucking transportation is a competitor as is the rental car industry in the event you need to leave the city. People in NY can save a lot of money just going to zipcar.com in NYC than worrying about a. daily driving costs and b. daily parking costs.

I actually think you are being the thick headed one around here. Maybe you're on the out's with your girl or something, but you sure aren't approaching this with a clear head.

God bless if you think these aren't competing elements towards the smart car bottom line, but a car that's been shit on as much as the smart and from a company that almost never got the car here to begin with, be my guest.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by miir »

A base model with a radio and air goes for 12.5k... not 14.2k

I couldn't find anything on a google search that defined chisler as a cheapskate. If you're going to use archaic insults, at least try use one that you know the meaning of.

For most people, paying 2k more for a 4 year warranty and getting a car that isn't 6 years old is pretty much a no-brainer.
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

IT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT; SOMETHING IS WRONG
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Re: Smart Car

Post by Chidoro »

I directly linked what a 2 door passion coupe costs in my area. You want that car w/ an AC and a radio, $14,230. Maybe your area is not as starved for this car so the price is more competitive. Ohh well I guess.

So most people paying 4-6K more for a car that has only one mission statement that it's not even the best at doing is their prerogative. We'll see in a year after the early adopters pick theirs up.

You can focus on your one point that doesn't even hold true for most people, I've presented far too many scenarios that show why it won't hit it's mark in this country. And I'd like to add that I don't think it has anything to do with it's perceived safety issues which was some of the contention of the car to begin with.

If you don't know what or how a word is used, and you can't "google search" it, it does not show any type of archaic insinuation, it just means that, like this arguement, you just don't know. But swing and miss at the things you think you get and ignore the strikes down the plate you can't even swing fast enough to hit.

Keep this message around. I'd love to see the sales for the month of May 2010 if the car is still even on the market in this country then.
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