Open Beta (Phase 5) has begun

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Open Beta (Phase 5) has begun

Post by Mr Bacon »

yeah. NDA lifted.

I've been in beta since december of 2005.
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Post by threnody »

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Post by Xanupox »

ive been in beta since November 2005 and it sucks
I probably gave you virtual items once upon a time...
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Post by Mr Bacon »

Dumb.
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Post by Boogahz »

Was in since....April of 2006 (I think)...finally deleted it a couple weeks ago. Nothing stood out enough for me to continue spending time with it. The one thing I did like was how involved the devs were with those who actually played. You would see two or more on most days in general chat.
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Post by Gemily »

Feast your eyes on my gorgeous goblin. Can you say Goddess? ke ke ke
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Post by kyoukan »

the re-done goblin model in original Everquest looks better than that.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

Dumb.
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Post by Gemily »

kyoukan wrote:the re-done goblin model in original Everquest looks better than that.
Maybe so, but this one is a playable race. \:D/ And I luv her.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

I got in a few weeks back and have been having a potter about.

Overall, meh. It's not the second coming of Jesus as the vanbois would have you believe, but on the other hand the act of installing it doesn't cause your machine to explode and your anus to prolapse, either.

If I had a good guild to play with I think there's enough game in there to keep me playing. And I think it'll be a good game in a year or two.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

I got in a few weeks back and have been having a potter about.

Overall, meh. It's not the second coming of Jesus as the vanbois would have you believe, but on the other hand the act of installing it doesn't cause your machine to explode and your anus to prolapse, either.

If I had a good guild to play with I think there's enough game in there to keep me playing. And I think it'll be a good game in a year or two.
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Post by Morgrym »

Been in for about 6 months and it blows goat. I gave my account away to someone about a month ago. I see Vanguard going into the bug zapper with Horizons and Shadowbane.
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Post by Morgrym »

:edit: Double posted because the first time it said, "No Post Mode Specified" and did not proceed onto anything. :edit:
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Post by threnody »

Luckily for me I went into beta knowing it was going to be an unfinished changing product and I didn’t figure that Jesus or Mother Theresa was going to jump out as soon as I double clicked on “Shortcut to Vanguard” and start giving me a rim job and humming on my nuts.

Unfortunately for Vanguard it’s not going to be a ‘finished’ (able to go from 1-50 and experience solid content on all continents throughout the entire leveling curve). Also by not ‘finished’, they are still doing class revamps, optimizations, and tweaking all spheres of play. Now, between here and there (there being release), I imagine a larger chunk of this will be done, but I don’t imagine all of it. There is a plan and they have a target in mind for combat (as at least I can derive based on their changes to the classes) so I suppose that’s fortunate.

The real problem throughout beta, and really root cause in my opinion versus the banter you’re getting now simply about ‘how shit has changed’, is that beta was a very visible design process. People (who I imagine didn’t have their expectations set correctly knowing that this was in fact a very raw beta process) got invested into systems that were clearly not done or simply wouldn’t work long term. So, through out beta, Sigil would do their thing and take their ideas and designs and implement these things into code and then give it a try. Then later they’d find out that the system didn’t work that well and they would opt to scrap it versus taking the time to polish up something they knew to be complete shit anyway.

Now, from a design perspective, it would be completely irrational to set a course in stone and not know how it’s even going to work in implementation. When you’re trying to test crazy shit in a game, sometimes you hit the ball and sometimes your really cool idea that you thought up over dinner doesn’t work out. Of course, the net effect to this is a shit load of re-work and that’s really what I’ve seen be detrimental to beta. Now, would I rather they polish up a shit system just to polish something up and get it out the door or would I rather them scrap it and give me something half ass that at least could turn into something cool? Well, probably the latter, but I may be more forgiving than other people because I appreciate the effort. You try and do something instead of the norm and you made the effort. Too bad it was determined it sucked. It’s a bad software design model, but if you discount an MMO as a traditional software product and say it lives like Sigil likes to do, I suppose you could justify it. After all, SGO will have to live with this thing for years to come.

So, anyway.. people become attached to shit and stuff then changes and then they cry foul because in reality beta was an example of very raw game design for all people to see.. and what they expected was a more traditional beta where the systems are already determined as the go forwards and they are just working on finishing implementing them and bug fixes/polish.

I played a warrior in beta, so I got to group/duo nearly the entire time. The release state of combat I don’t mind and even think it’s a palatable system, however, if you’re expecting a rim job from Mother Theresa from combat, you’re not going to get one.
The system has changed three or more times, but I think for the better. I didn’t get to play the 2.X combat tree, but some people liked it, others hated it. I don’t care. =P The current state is the crit based system were a crit opens up a finisher. The finisher pool depends (for warriors at least) on which stance you are in. The higher your level the more skills and shit you have so the more options presents itself on what to do with your crit. I’m sure there will be skill tree posts, so I won’t bother into going into these.

Beyond the “hey, I got a crit now time to fuck you up” feature, there are reactionary features as well that allow you to riposte on parry, disarm on block or whatever other skills you have for that reaction and then of course you have a series of rescues which are your snap agro elements. Taunts, which are there, isn’t your snap agro mechanism.

On top of that, from a melee perspective (someone else can explain sympathetic spells) you have abilities that put effects on a mob. Staggered, bleeding or what have you. These effects open up abilities for other classes to use another skill. For instance I do Y, which puts on effect X, which enables another person in the party to do affect Z. I don’t think a lot of people realized in beta that this stuff was in, but it was.

All in all, in my opinion, you can go through combat and think out what you want to do or mash some buttons. Both ways you can be successful, but the thinking your shit out tends to be more efficient in my experience.

In regards to content, I imagine the newbie zones are not ground breaking by any means and they very so much from race to race. Like I have said previously, it took Sigil a while to hit their groove on that crap and it certainly shows in the variety of different experiences you have. So, your mileage may very.

For higher-level content (starting 15+, 10 in some areas) you really start getting into some great group content. If all you’re looking to do is solo then VG certainly will not even come close to pleasing you. However, if you’re a fan of old school pen and paper dungeon crawls, castle/keep raids, temple plundering or what have you, I imagine you’ll have a great time. Group content in my opinion is really where Vanguard shines. I’ve never really had massive performance problems and I was fortunate to be able to experience Thestran and Qalian content when both were open, so I’ve seen a lot of great content. The higher level you go the better it gets. Just take a look at Dink’s post on FoH’s forum. He goes into great detail about how much he loved the higher end content and how much the raid content he was able to do was very promising. A lot of the neater things have been pushed down into lower levels, but from my experience in beta a large portion of the players haven’t even come close to experiencing it or have only saw the front edges of it. It’s unfortunate.

I’m out of time. I could share more, but I imagine most folks haven’t gotten to the bottom of this anyway. In the end I’ll be playing release on release because of the group content and some of the great story lines (stfu and hail some mobs in zones where they have actually put the lore in, or do some quest series that will take you from the start to finish of a dungeon). The game will change and improve, but the key feature that I get is that classic pen and paper dungeon crawl feel that I simply don’t get in arcade like WoW.
Last edited by threnody on January 5, 2007, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sabek »

What does it all mean? :(
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Post by threnody »

Sabek wrote:What does it all mean? :(
It means what's for lunch 'cause I'm drive'n in =P
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Post by Winnow »

I've never seen a game with so many beta testers saying it blows and even those that like it making excuses more than pointing out anything cool.

There's overkill in the fantasy MMORPG category already with EQ, EQ2 and WoW (and a host of others). A new game needs some innovation.

A one word summary of opinions of the game would be, "meh" and that's not even a word.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

Winnow, dumb.

Until yesterday, you broke the NDA by speaking out about the game.

Who doesn't care if they get booted from beta? Those who like it or those who don't?

1 + 1 = 2.

Dumb.
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Post by Boogahz »

Mr Bacon wrote:Winnow, dumb.

Until yesterday, you broke the NDA by speaking out about the game.

Who doesn't care if they get booted from beta? Those who like it or those who don't?

1 + 1 = 2.

Dumb.
Your vocabulary hasn't improved since the thread started. You might want to work on that some. People have opinions, and those opinions are not the same as yours. All you have done is say "Dumb" when a person says anything negative about the game.
Sabek wrote:What does it all mean?
He said that there are some really cool gameplay mechanics, there have been a lot of changes, and anybody who thinks the Beta was shit is (to quote Rellix) Dumb. Basically over 3/4 of the post was saying that people shouldn't expect the Beta of a game to be anywhere near a finished product.
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Post by noel »

Thren, I read your whole post and found it very informative for someone who's not been in beta and has a mild interest in the game if only from an analytical standpoint toward the genre as a whole. Thanks for the detail and the thoughtfulness with which you posted.

Rellix not you personally, but your posting in this thread has been childish and idiotic. If 'dumb' is the best you can manage for valid negative criticism you should go find a vanboi forum and post there. It's not your job to police the people in beta who are or are not violating the NDA, and frankly no one outside of Sigil and your dorm room really gives a shit who's violating the NDA. In virtually every MMOG development that I've observed/participated in, you've had people get into the beta, try out the game, not like it and subsequently no longer care if they honored the NDA or not. While it might not be right, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, especially not an MMOG developer.

Winnow's point is valid, and I agree. Even the people saying positive things about the game are doing so in a less than enthusiastic way with a lot of conditional statements.
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Post by Winnow »

Mr Bacon wrote:Winnow, dumb.

Until yesterday, you broke the NDA by speaking out about the game.

Who doesn't care if they get booted from beta? Those who like it or those who don't?

1 + 1 = 2.

Dumb.
I was referring to all of the comments since yesterday. Double dumb ass on you.
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Post by threnody »

I will use more simple terms for you since some people missed the point.

This wasn't beta. It wasn't a beta process. It was design alchemy. They just called it beta. I would say it was N years of alchemy and experimentation and 2-3 months of real beta.

Does that parse? Stop reading shit into things just because I use more words around my statements than "lol suck lol".

Regarding the proliferation of fantasy MMOs, yes, there are a bunch. It's personal taste. Most people who whine about this are normally bitter, look'n to find Jesus once again in an MMO to really have their socks blown off.

Sorry, you're not going to find religion in an MMO. Every game is shit and every game has good points. Grow a brain stem.

There, now that this post is purely base in nature, people will parse =P
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Post by threnody »

noel wrote:Even the people saying positive things about the game are doing so in a less than enthusiastic way with a lot of conditional statements.
Long time no see in #vv.

Everything should be shades of grey, IMO. If they are one way or the other purely, you're being sold poor bill of goods. It just depends if it's the right fit for you at the right time. Anything else is zealotry on either side of the fence (for or against).
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Post by Mr Bacon »

dumb winnow.

You see, it's gotten to the point where some people are just so clueless regarding the entire idea of this game that they think, "well hell, I may as well just call it shit because 9/10 other retards do too."

Arguing about it here is pointless. Thus, I call you dumb instead.
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Post by Morgrym »

If 9 out of 10 people call it shit, would not the 1 out of 10 that calls it good be the retard?

To each his own and play what you want. Hell, there are many people still playing EQ1 that seem to love it.
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Post by Sabek »

Mr Bacon wrote:dumb winnow.

You see, it's gotten to the point where some people are just so clueless regarding the entire idea of this game that they think, "well hell, I may as well just call it shit because 9/10 other retards do too."

Arguing about it here is pointless. Thus, I call you dumb instead.
Rellix = double dumb

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Post by threnody »

Sabek wrote:I R TEH WINNAR AT INTARWEB FLAMES!
lol fag lol fag

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Post by cadalano »

i played beta 4 for a few days.. admittedly not enough time to really see everything, but as far as first impressions go its just too underwhelming. That is to say.. I saw enough. also admittedly, though it wouldnt have mattered, I started with a bad vibe because everyone whose opinion matters to me has said that its terrible and the official teaser screenshots that are supposed to get me excited about the game actually had me laughing out loud at times ala EQ2. this game just isnt for me, i guess. i hope it serves whatever niche its filling very comfortably
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Post by Winnow »

Only the true nerds will get the double dumb ass reference to James T. Kirk in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home!

Taxi driver: [disgruntled] Why don't you watch where you're going, you dumb-ass!

James T. Kirk: Well, a double dumb-ass on you!

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James T. Kirk: You mean the profanity?

Spock: Yes.

James T. Kirk: That's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you unless you swear every other word.
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Post by Aslanna »

Dumb.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

Aslanna wrote:Dumb.
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Post by Fash »

threnody wrote:I will use more simple terms for you since some people missed the point.

This wasn't beta. It wasn't a beta process. It was design alchemy. They just called it beta. I would say it was N years of alchemy and experimentation and 2-3 months of real beta.
I don't care if you call it an exercise in mental masturbation, the game offers nothing new or exciting and it runs like shit on 'average' hardware. It will not likely be a mainstream game or even very popular because it fails to differentiate itself in the marketplace or target a large audience.
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Post by threnody »

Fash wrote:I don't care if you call it an exercise in mental masturbation..
You seem to miss the point even further.

I wasn't saying it was a good thing or an excuse or trying to spin.

It's a total shit methodology and the game as suffered because of it. It's bad software design practice, IMO.
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Post by Siji »

Honestly, I hardly expect anyone on this board to like .. well, any online game. If not burned out, then expecting as much as there was with EQ in the beginning - which is unrealistic. Vanguard in 07' isn't EQ in 99' and couldn't compare. EQ was unlike anything (other than crappy UO) that was out. Vanguard is not. Vanguard has competition and is just another flavor in the buffett. A buffett that most of the people here have already filled up on and left for the shitter.

I envy the kids that have never played an online game that will be getting into Vanguard. I think they'll have a grand time and it'll be addicting to them. Soon we'll see CBS specials about how Vanguard killed some fat epileptic kid because someone wouldn't cyber him.
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Post by Fyndina »

All i think I will say about Vanguard is the following: At least Shadowbane was fun when it was working.
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Post by Xanupox »

Like so many others have already said. Fantasy, Orcs, Dragons, blah blah fucking blah. This type of MMO is dead as fuck, the only people still playing them are the ones who have A) never played one before, B) addicted to thier current toons and will not leave for Vangard, C) The Haters of all other games, who will try this one just for fucks sake only to quit after 3 months when thier char is maxed and nothing to do.

yeah, fucking shovel that shit into your face.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

4) Those who like the game and will probably be playing it for a good amount of time (definitely way more than "3 months").

And trust me, there's more than a couple of us.
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Post by Xanupox »

I doubt it.

EQ was good because, well everyone THOUGHT it was good at the time. Nothing to compare it too.

EQ was not good, to todays standards, but thats ok.

No game will ever bring that era back, its gone, in the past now. Either you participated or you were left out, it was the birth of a genre... now its grown up and everyone is aware of how it works, or is supposed to work.

So forget about being "ooooh'd".. or ahhhh'd" It wont be happening by this game or any like it...

EQ was the first of its kind, WoW is popular because its just so fucking easy. There is really nothing else, besides those two that are even worth playing.

There are way too many other factors nowdays that just will make it impossible to ever re-create that feeling EverQuest was able to generate.

1) It was hard, in the fact you paid for a death.
2) You could lose all your shit on your corpse.
3) There was no China Plat Farmers.
4) There was no "google" ever fucking thing in the game, strats, mob stats, gear, etc. (sure there was allahkhazam, but it was nothing like you can get today)
5) There was some sense of "unknown", with no idea what there could be around the corner.... no days, we figure there will just be a harder to kill mob around the corner.


Vanguard does nothing to solve any of the real issues, in regard to breaking new ground and giving players something worth thier time.

Sure if you dont give a fuck about your life and want to just waste it playing some shitty fucking game, then play Vanguard.

Thats the problem.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Xan's right. Vanguard does in fact blow. Maybe it will get better and not blow so hard down the road, but right now it blows....hard.
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Post by noel »

Xanupox wrote:EQ was good because, well everyone THOUGHT it was good at the time. Nothing to compare it too.

EQ was not good, to todays standards, but thats ok.

No game will ever bring that era back, its gone, in the past now. Either you participated or you were left out, it was the birth of a genre... now its grown up and everyone is aware of how it works, or is supposed to work.

So forget about being "ooooh'd".. or ahhhh'd" It wont be happening by this game or any like it...

EQ was the first of its kind, WoW is popular because its just so fucking easy. There is really nothing else, besides those two that are even worth playing.

There are way too many other factors nowdays that just will make it impossible to ever re-create that feeling EverQuest was able to generate.

1) It was hard, in the fact you paid for a death.
2) You could lose all your shit on your corpse.
3) There was no China Plat Farmers.
4) There was no "google" ever fucking thing in the game, strats, mob stats, gear, etc. (sure there was allahkhazam, but it was nothing like you can get today)
5) There was some sense of "unknown", with no idea what there could be around the corner.... no days, we figure there will just be a harder to kill mob around the corner.
I can't believe it, but I wholeheartedly agree with the quoted text.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

K, have a nice time bitching about a game you claim you don't even care about while I'm enjoying my time actually IN a game.
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Post by Aabidano »

noel wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with the quoted text.
Ditto.

To me it's not a bad game, but not new or compelling enough to make me want to sink part of my life into either. Doubt I'll continue after beta.
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Post by Zamtuk »

Oh shove it up your fucking ass, Rellix. Never have I seen so much cocksucking come out of one poster on one thread/forum. You want everyone to suck Sigil's cock, then go to their forums and stay there. I'm quite certain you're a regular poster on those forums following every announcement with, "Wow guys, the way this game is going is into uncharted territories, you guys rock!" But for fucks sake, don't bring it here.

Opinions differ, and while you're still probably sour that they snubbed you for moderation abilities on this forum, shut the fuck up. Actually, no one cares about your opinion and/or what you have to say on this forum. This game does indeed suck. Good for you for thinking different, I hope you have a blast playing this for the next 15 years. I won't troll behind your every post with, 'dumb' or 'go fuck yourself while I play Vangaurd!'
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Post by Winnow »

Xanupox wrote: There are way too many other factors nowdays that just will make it impossible to ever re-create that feeling EverQuest was able to generate.

1) It was hard, in the fact you paid for a death.
2) You could lose all your shit on your corpse.
3) There was no China Plat Farmers.
4) There was no "google" ever fucking thing in the game, strats, mob stats, gear, etc. (sure there was allahkhazam, but it was nothing like you can get today)
5) There was some sense of "unknown", with no idea what there could be around the corner.... no days, we figure there will just be a harder to kill mob around the corner.
Xan did a nice job summarizing why EQ was what it was back at its point in MMORPG history.

You definately paid for a death with CR and huge XP hits. Everyone has Corpse Recovery stories. No one would ever put up with that today but they were memorable.

Admittedly, I didn't get to be the very first person to do anything in EQ but on a few occasions, (Dragon Necropolis with Gak, Howling Stones with Aslanna come to mind), it was extremely fun to dungeon crawl around in an area hard to get to that few had been to, with no one else around, and discover things for yourself while at the same time being kept on your toes as a death meant some serious CR'ing. Those little exploratory single groups required very good teamwork, planning, etc.

Even in guild events, while not the first, CT and Legion/Sovereign raids were highly rewarding experiences while at the same time creating epic flamewars on this board which just doesn't happen anymore in the new pampered games.

I don't see Vanguard bringing any of that back while at the same time not offering anything compelling to make it interesting.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

I've posted all over the beta boards (and other community forums) that this game is releasing too early. It's going to hurt the game just like EQ2.

Yeah, that's really some cocksucking there if you ask me.
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Post by Bubba Grizz »

Well this is the Vanguard Forum for VV. Where else would you have him post about it? Or are we only allowing those who hate the game to post here? I'm not a Vanboi by any means but by my saying that I like the game and intend on playing it over WoW will I be labeled so?

Are those posting how much they hate the game trying to force their point of view on others? Bacon never came on this thread stating that you "Should" play it rather answered those who were tearing into the game that he enjoys. Can't he defend it?

Playing Vanguard gave me a new appreciation for how well thought out WoW really is. WoW is a very tight game. I liked it a lot. Now I am ready for a change. I am ready for a game that will take me a long time to get up in level instead of at the top of the heap in a few short months.

I didn't play WoW at the beginning when it was first released nor did I play the beta. So I don't know how to compare where Vanguard stands to where they were pre release. I can't imagine it being much different. All I can say is, I am glad you folks who hate the game are not going to be there. Less lag for me.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

Bubba pretty much sums it up. I really don't care about what some of you think of this game, and that's pretty obvious, but I will call you out when you're acting 'dumb' - in particular when you leave no reasoning. Take a response like Cadalano's - I can respect that. He has his reasons and they are completely understandable. But, then there's idiots who just put 'OMG THIS SUCKS GOD I HATE IT,' and I just lose all sympathy for them.

What I find great it how some people, who absolutely hate this game with every bone in their body feel they must keep telling me and other people in here about it.

Don't like the game? Good. Say it once, and go away.
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Post by Winnow »

Bubba Grizz wrote:All I can say is, I am glad you folks who hate the game are not going to be there. Less lag for me.
If Brett Favre would freaking retire he could join you in Vanguard! :twisted:
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Post by Zamtuk »

I never said anywhere that he shouldn't post here. I just said, if he wants everyone to agree with him then go to the Sigil forums. And saying 'dumb' isn't a defense what so ever, it is trolling, and horrible trolling at that. I don't need Xanupox to back up any of his statements on this thread, he has done it numerous times on other threads in this forum. If you can't follow that much information, perhaps you can make a collage of all is posts in one handy thread then reread it then make a counter argument instead of saying, 'dumb'.
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Post by Mr Bacon »

You realize my saying 'dumb' is equivalent to the "OMFG THIS BLOWS HARD" posts.

Tit for tat buddy. Are you actually going to defend that type of retarded posting over my own?
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