VeeshanVault

I've decided after several years of happiness in a Micro-ATX case to go back to a mid-tower, mostly due to the lack of space in the Micro-ATX.

I currently have a P4 3.4 (socket LGA775), 2GB DDR2 RAM, 7800GT, HD, DVD-RW that I'm planning to move into a new system. The main goal is to make the new system [as] silent [as possible] without water cooling. If I can move to a newer higher end MB without having to change the CPU (yet) that would be ideal as well, that way I can upgrade in the future when the Duo Core prices come down a bit.

As such, I need a new case, power-supply, motherboard, CPU fan and GPU fan.

I'm going to go with the Antec P180B for the case, and I'm currently planning for the CORSAIR HX520 for the power supply. I've been reading reviews on a site dedicated to making PCs quieter and both of these have done really well (and of course a lot of people here like the P180).

All that said, I'm kind of stuck on the motherboard. I definitely want to stay with Intel and stay with a socket 775 so I can reuse my current CPU (that's not a set in stone requirement -- only if possible). I've been reading that the NVIDIA 680i chipset is currently the best. I have absolutely zero desire to ever go with SLI (I'd rather just fork for a higher end video card), but I might do some overclocking. The prices on the 680i's seem kind of high, but I can afford it if that's really the best way to go. Finally, I'd really like it if the motherboard had an ESATA port because I recently got an external SATA/USB enclosure and I'd like to make use of the SATA transfer speeds on it.

I've always felt the Motherboard is the most critical piece in a PC and I'm willing to spend the cash if necessary. If anyone can recommend a motherboard(s) based on those desires, I'd really appreciate it.

I'm planning on just doing Zalman GPU and CPU fans but if anyone has any advice, or insight about them I'm certainly interested in hearing it.

Thanks in advance.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Core Duo E6600 CPU/MB/Memory upgrade so have been doing some research on this.

So much for my 2 year upgrade strategy...it's only been one year. My X2 3800+ OC'd to 4800+ speeds is really plenty good. I don't notice any lag really except for Second Life which is a known issue. But...with all the RAR/UNRARing, Zipping, etc I do, a new E6600 OC'd to ~3GHz (E6800 levels) will make quite a difference in wait times for such things as well as encoding, etc etc.

The E6600 is the Core Duo to get. Easily OC'd to 6800 on stock HSF (save a bunch of $$ and it's painless to do)...all the better if you use Artic Silver 5 and an aftermarket HSF. Even if you stick with the stock HSF, scrape off the crappy thermal gunk that comes with the retail CPU/HSF and apply some Artic Silver 5 to reduce temps substantially. People are having some issues popping the fan onto the motherboard with the core duos. A lot of force is needed and sometimes it's not sitting well on the CPU which is causing some higher temps. The stock HSF should be fine even to OC to the ~2.8/2.9GHz range with the E6600 stock 2.4Ghz CPU. (I'm a huge Zalman fanboi though for aftermarket cooling. I've owned several and always quiet and cool, long lasting)

Case: P180 is fine. I'm keeping it and happy with it. (quite/good air flow combo) (keep in mind the lower case PSU mounting challenges when first routing your cables)

Memory: Whatever ~200-220.00 memory (2x1GB) 6400 800MHz DDR2 memory works well with the MB I select

MB: The two most popular are the

Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3

and

Asus Motherboards

I'm at the motherboard researching point so can't offer much in that department yet. I've got a bunch of reading to do on this as I agree with Noel in that the MB is one of the most important pieces. I'm not so sure about 680i unless you're going with SLi which it looks like you're not. "Buggy" is what I've been gathering so far about those brand new boards and that's exactly what I don't want in a MB.

I'm not interested in SLi either but may end up with an SLi board depending on what's best out there.

Don't worry too much about eSata being included on the back panel. $5.99 gets you eSata. You just plug it into one of your internal sata sockets. That shouldn't be much a factor in your decision.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813997001

I plan to keep my 7800GT PCI-E for the time being. Seeing the benchscores with the new Core Duos lead me to believe I'm fine with that card until ATI introduces the R600 in Feb/March, dropping the price ont he 8800GTX which is the card I want to eventually get.

I'm going to order by Friday or probably blow it off until after the holidays so should have something more in depth on why I chose what I eventually chose soon.

Also, don't forget about the Hard Drive. It's usually the most overlooked piece that slows performance. Suggestions...get either a 74GB Raptor ~130.00 for your OS or one of the Seagate 7200.10 320GB HDs ~94.00 which is the fastest non Raptor if you want more space. It does make a difference in overall speed of the system.

Gigabyte suck, suck, suck, and they suck, suck, suck.

Winnow, thanks. Sounds like you're in a similar boat to me. Let me know what you find in your motherboard choice. What chipset are you looking at, if not the 680i? 965? 975? Also, thanks for the ESATA suggestion.

I'll probably do everything but the processor pre holiday then go Core 2 shortly after.

Thanks again.

Currently thinking this is the motherboard I'm going to go with. Anyone have any thoughts?

It's an Abit AW9D-MAX

noel wrote:Currently thinking this is the motherboard I'm going to go with. Anyone have any thoughts?

It's an Abit AW9D-MAX

I used to buy Abit boards. I bought a string of three in a row. I had varying success with them but they all did end up dead unlike my other MBs that I've either retired or given away.

I tend to stay away from Abit now but what caught your eye about the board? Things change. It sure does come with a lot of SATA cables. Abit boards usually do have good OC bios settings but I'm skeptical of the quality of the drivers etc from my past experiences and of the MBs just plain dying after 6-12 months.

I'd sugest reading Abit's forums for that exact MB to get an idea of what people are saying about it after setting it up.

Thankfully it looks like just about all of the core duo MBs use heatpipes to cool the MB chipset so no more noisy fans.

Mostly it has all of the capability I was looking for, plus it has a really nice onboard sound card (I have a Creative X-fi card, but I'm kind of pissed at creative at the moment due to the way they're handling Vista drivers at present), plenty of expansion, and people spoke favorably about it in the newegg.com reviews and on hardforum.com. Apparently it overclocks really well and the only issues people are having with it are due to space when they go to an SLI or Crossfire config (not a concern for me). I also have no plans to run a RAID, so I'm not too concerned with those types of issues. It also uses 100% solid aluminum electrolytic capacitors. From a strictly hardware perspective, it looks fine, but if you've had issues in the past I'll spend some time on their forums to see what people are saying about the board.

As an aside, can you visually see any reason why there'd be space issues with the Zalman CPU/GPU fans?

noel wrote:Mostly it has all of the capability I was looking for, plus it has a really nice onboard sound card (I have a Creative X-fi card, but I'm kind of pissed at creative at the moment due to the way they're handling Vista drivers at present), plenty of expansion, and people spoke favorably about it in the newegg.com reviews and on hardforum.com. Apparently it overclocks really well and the only issues people are having with it are due to space when they go to an SLI or Crossfire config (not a concern for me). I also have no plans to run a RAID, so I'm not too concerned with those types of issues. It also uses 100% solid aluminum electrolytic capacitors. From a strictly hardware perspective, it looks fine, but if you've had issues in the past I'll spend some time on their forums to see what people are saying about the board.

As an aside, can you visually see any reason why there'd be space issues with the Zalman CPU/GPU fans?

There should be no problem with a single video card and a zalman fan. Two might be an issue. the CPU fan will be fine in a P180.
Sounds good so far. Next would be to find a few people that have had OC success with a particular brand/model of memory with your this board.

Off to bed. Stuck in meetings all day tomorrow so wont be surfing much.

I just noticed that my current RAM is PC3200 and isn't compatible with that MB so I'll need to upgrade that as well. Wife is going to kill me, but oh well.

Pretty good thread on OCing this board: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php ... t=AW9D-MAX

Apparently the Abit SW that comes with the board is excellent and works well with OCing.

I've had good luck with all of my ASUS and Gigabyte motherboards (except for one first run A7N8X that I had some timing problems with ... was eventually fixed with a bios flash.

It will be a cold day in hell (and no, AZ doesn't count) before I buy another Abit motherboard tho. Those people have done me wrong in so many ways I can't count.

I'm not so sure about 680i unless you're going with SLi which it looks like you're not.

This is true of all the non-asus 680i motherboards (at least I have had no problems, and there doesn't seem to be many reported other ones for the asus). All the boards but the asus are reference boards, thus the bugs (like the sata controller failing at high overclocks).

The general feeling I'm getting for the forums is that if you want to OC with an SLI configuration you should go with a 680i chipset, but if you plan on going with a single GPU configuration, the Intel 975x chipset is the way to go.

Since that's now two people who've had bad experiences with Abit, and everyone seems to have good experiences with Asus, I'm now looking at the ASUS P5W DH DELUXE

It's a shame they don't have an unDeluxe model as the wireless and dual Gigabyte ports are really overkill for my needs.

Edit: Unfortunately, that board isn't as well spoken of for OCing as the Abit board is. Abit actually makes a less featured version of the AW9D-MAX called the AW9D. The main differences are: single Ethernet Port and less SATA connectors. It's about $25 cheaper overall for things that I really don't need and won't need ever. I might roll the dice.

Any specifics on what happened to you Midgen?

Abit used to make good boards. Awesome for overclocking.
Two back to back DOAs and a less than stellar RMA experience turned me off of them forever.

I only use Asus now.

Fuck Gigabyte.

ASUS P5W DH DELUXE it is then. Apparently I'll need to remove the chipset cooling pipes and use the Artic Silver on them because the compound that comes on the board sucks some ass.

I guess the good news is the board has a ridiculous amount of features. After all, EVERYONE needs a Wireless NIC AND two Gigabit Ethernet ports on a PC.

I've bought only Abit boards for quite awhile now and haven't had a single problem with them.

Within the last week I got a new setup as well.. here's what I went with and so far, love it and have no issues. NewEgg of course..

Antel P180B Case
Tagan TG500-U35 500W P/S
ABIT AB9 Pro
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) TWIN2X2048-6400
XFX GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card

After reading the P180 thread here, I ordered some P/S extension cables, which were completely unneeded with the above MB and P/S. I'll warn you though that you're going to have to do one of three things with the lowest fan in the case.. If you get a modular P/S, you're going to have to take out the fan, unscrew it from the plastic 'heat guard' and flip the guard to the other side and then reattach the fan on the other side of the little metal bar because the plugs in the P/S stick out too far. Then.. if you happen to have more then 2 HDDs and have to use the lowest drive bay, that method also won't work because the cables will hit the fan again.. what I ended up doing is just taking off the 'heat guard' from the fan and then slipping it in there. It's not attached, but it's not hitting any cables. Other than that, love the case except the fan cover on the top.. makes resting your leg on top of the case harder, and I'm lazy like that. Love the P/S though, and the nifty leather bound looking box it comes with.

I'm fairly clueless about O/C'ing, and haven't found any combinations for this M/B and CPU in Hard Forums DB yet except for one at just over 3.0 GHz.. which didn't work for me. I'm currently at 2.7 GHz just from having played with it for a minute or two.

One of the things about the MB is that it has Intels latest chipsets (granted 965 instead of 975, but if you're not doing SLI..) but the ICH8R versus ICH7R..

Anyway, I really like it thus far. It's fast as hell. I could have gone with a better vid card I 'spose, but for the price the specs are nice and I don't game that much anymore.

Ed: By the way.. stock cooling on the cpu, didn't bother with putting on arctic silver this time.. dont think I've *ever* seen the cpu temp go above 100..

Depending on whether that motherboard/memory combo pans out, that looks like a nice system. Go Tagan! Tagan PSU's ooze quality. 36 month guarantee on mine as well which is way beyond the lifecycle of my systems.

After much lamenting, reading, thinking, advice from close friends and advice from you guys, I decided to go with the following. Technically I could have spent as much as I wanted, but my wife might have decided to make my life hell if I did (My wife seems to balk at any purchase over $500, but I can make as many $200-250 purchases as I want and she doesn't say a thing).

My main goal was to get out of the Micro-ATX box and into a solid ATX box with decent gear and potential to do more with it with individual upgrades in the future. My secondary goal was to keep the box as quiet as possible. Total cost of the gear ended up being just under $900. I'll be moving over my DVD/RW, 7800GT OC and Harddrives when I build the new box.

Antec Sonata 2 Case - This (at least temporarily) saved me the cost of case + power supply (has an included 450w), and was very favorably reviewed silentpcreview.com. If power is an issue, I'll put in a Tagan at a later date and not worry about it, but hopefully this case/PS does everything I need it to do and quietly.

Abit AW9D Motherboard - If this board ends up sucking, I'll drop in an ASUS at a later date and give you all the chance to say you told me so. To this board's credit, the people who have it speak highly of it, and every thread I could find where someone was having an issue; it was resolved with a BIOS update. I just couldn't justify the additional $50 to $100 the ASUS board would have cost (with everything else I'm purchasing) or the additional features on the ASUS board that I wouldn't have needed.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 - I absolutely had to settle here to keep costs down. The good news is that it should OC well, and the motherboard supports up to Duo Core Xtreme so I should be good for a while and then be able to upgrade. At a minimum it will perform better than the P4-3.4Ghz I have now.

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400) - The RAM kind of killed me a bit. I didn't initially realize that I wouldn't be able to use the 2GB of PC3200 I already have and the $200+ for RAM would have gone toward the CPU/Case/PS. Hopefully it won't be too big of a deal in the longrun. Lots of people using this RAM are happy with it and lots of people are OCing with this RAM/MB combo.

Zalman VF900 GPU cooler/Zalman CNPS9500 CPU cooler - I have yet to hear one bad thing about a Zalman product. Also picked up some Artic Silver 5.

I should get the Hardware early next week. I'll probably run it normally for a bit before I attempt to OC it, but I'll let you guys know how it goes. I'm fortunate that my old box (which will be mostly intact) is a big upgrade for my parents, so I'm passing it on to them as an extra X-mas present.

I really do appreciate all the insight and opinions. I've built a shitload of computers in my day, but it had been a while since the last time I built. If anyone sees anything I'm missing, feel free to let me know.

Useful link when you get to OC'ing..

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1114516

Thanks, that's a really good read.

After reading and reading, I can't decide on a motherboard so I'm going to blow off my upgrade until after the holidays.

My current system is the most stable I've ever had and it's already dual core so I think I can survive the holidays with it. For some reason, I'm dreading reinstalling XP and all the apps for a new MB/CPU not too long before I will most likely upgrade the OS again to Vista. Even though I'm really not too excited about Vista, I'll probably wait and buy it along with my new CPU/MB and do a fresh install so I can complete the whole project at once.

I'll be watching the board to see how your new systems are doing!

So much for that.

I bought a E6600, motherboard and 2x1GB DDR2 memory just now from Newegg. Came to $676.69 shipped.

Besides the E6600, I went value/need on the motherboard and value/OC'ability on the memory. My choices should get the 2.4 E6600 to ~3GHz easily with the stock HSF.

I'll post here or in a new thread what I went with anf for what reasons after some sleep.

I OC'd my 6600 from 2.4 to 3.01. I could go higher, but I honestly don't want to be bothered with replacing the stock hs/fan. Under full load with orthos i didn't see it go above 69C with coretemp (which supposedly reads hotter anyway on the conroe chips) and that was after running it awhile. Normal temps are in the very low 50's. I'm ok with that.

I'm still two days out on the MB and fans, so I'm kind of hurrying up and waiting. On the plus side, it did give me a chance to completely reorganize my cable management.

For the record, I'm totally impressed with the Sonata II's appearance and build quality. I'm really looking forward to turning it on and cranking it up.

For this upgrade, I wanted a stable MB combined with good memory known to OC well with the motherboard. I went with the E6600 for the 4MB cache and ~300.00 always seems about right to pay for a CPU.

CPU: Intel E6600 $309.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115003

Not much to say about it. Core duo's are the best CPUs out there atm unless you want to spring for the $1,300 duo quad cores. (better for several things but gaming isn't one of them)

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965G-DS3 Socket T $134.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128018

First off, these are the things I didn't need and which the motherboard doesn't have:

SLI, Firewire, Advanced Raid (more than two drives)

I read extensively on user experiences with all of the motherboards. The Gigabyte DS3 is the most stable of all of them including Asus boards, when it comes to OC'ing. If I'm going to have a problem with this board, I think it will be DOA to start with and not an issue later on.

First of all, this is a mature board. The bios has been updated several times and Newegg is selling this board with the latest bios so no immediate upgrading necessary. Newegg is also selling Rev 2.0 of the board which just came out...upgrading the audio and lan on the board.

The only issue found with the DS3 was initial voltage settings for memory being set at 1.8v with a lot of the higher end memory running at 1.9-2.1v. This is easily corrected the first time you boot up by going into the bios and boosting the memory +.1 (or whatever). Pretty easy adjustment.

With other boards I was considering, I found more problems than I wished to deal with. All MBs have issues. You just need to find what they are and see if they'll affect what you plan to use the board for.

The 965 chipset is just fine if you aren't going to run SLi which I have no plans to do (the board doesn't even have a second 16x PCI-e slot). I'm not going to argue the pros and cons of SLI or Crossfire, all I know is that graphics cards are outpacing games so by the time my eventual 8800GTX card gets outdated, I'll but another single card that will probably double two 8800GTXs. (check your history of graphics cards) Also, by that time, we'll be looking at DDR3 memory and other changes that will require a new MB anyway. Bottom line, unless you're going to SLI right away when you upgrade your system, don't bother with SLI.

So anyway, for 134.99, I got everything I want with this MB. I've never used firewire and if I had to, it's a super cheap pci card addition away. Most importantly, it's a stable mature board. After doing this awhile, I've learned to sniff out the real MB problems from the "clueless newbie" issues. If the Gigabyte is DOA, I'll let you know!

With motherboards, it's not wise to assume that the more expensive motherboard will perform the best with the least issues. The DFI Infinity MB that's running an OC'd CPU and memory has been the best MB I've ever owned and it was only $115.00. Motherboards are not the place you want to be the guinea pig for. Let others fart around with matching memory and OC'ability combos and then let the manufacturer pump out a firmware update or two before jumping on a board if possible. Lots of headaches can be avoided by finding the combos that have worked well for multiple people. For me, money was not an object when considering them. I would have paid up to ~300.00 if I liked one better.

Memory: 2x1GB G.SKILL 6400 800MHz DDR2 $224.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231087

I currently have G.SKILL memory (OC'd) with my AMD X2 system which has performed flawlessly so was happy to see the good reports of this particular low timing memory working well with the DS3. Corsair seems to be the other memory that works well with the board. $224.00 > $300+ when both stable and get the desired OC job done with same timings.

For the time being, I'm keeping my Tagan PSU, nVidia 7800GT, and already have a spare Seagate 320 7200.10 Hard Drive to use for the OS, using P180 and after getting 8800GTX, will buy another PSU and Case to complete a second system. Got the two 24" LCDs so that's taken care of.

Ah, the DS3 has a particular issue with PATA Optical drives and Windows not recognizing them until a driver is installed...naturally, the driver is on a CD that comes with the MB so you can't install it because Windows doesn't recognize the drive yet. INC, Thumb Flash Drive with driver for that problem. Best to plan ahead!

Other note: Evernote (reviewed elsewhere in this forum!) has been working great while researching this stuff. I've been clipping all sorts of hardware data, creating a E6600 category with a bunch of useful links that will help when I'm putting this thing together. Since my main PC will be down while I'm doing it, I'm glad Evernote has a backup feature so I can install Evernote on my laptop and load the backup with all the info off my Terabyte Station. So far, it's all positives for this app, at least when using Firefox as a webclip button is one click away and auto-adds the selection to Evernotes.


Might not be until after the holidays before I can mess with this. Newegg already had posted that my order had "shipped" They rock as usual. I'll add my results to Siji and Noel's to help others decide on future upgrades based around the Core Duo CPus.

While we're on the subject, this is what I'm thinking of getting from my tax return.

Case: Antec Performance One P180B Black - $129.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6811129017
I like this case because the PS rack is at the bottom, and has it's own fan. The fan on top is a plus too. Brittney has the first version of this case and loves it.

Mobo: ASUS P5W DH DELUXE - $227.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6813131025
I've seen many people say they love this thing.

GFX Card: BFG GeForce 8800GTX 768MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - $599.99 (eeek~)
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6814143075
I want POWA~!

PS: Antec True Power Trio TP3-650 ATX12V 650W - $124.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6817371001

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 - $509.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6819115002
I want the Extreme, but my wallet would hate me.

CPU Cooling: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro - $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6835186134

RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit - $280.00
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6820145590
I've been using Corsair for years, and I love them.

Thoughts?

Sarg, the extra $200.00 to go from an E6600 (2.4 GHz) to E6700 (2.66GHz) is not worth it. Use that money elsewhere in the system. Either of those CPUs is going to OC to 3GHz with ease with the stock HSF and you're getting an after market fan. OC the E6600 unless you plan to go "extreme" and try to OC in the 3.4-3.6GHz range which is much more unpredictable.

Use the $200.00 to upgrade upgrade your Hard Drive which will make more of a performance difference if you don't already have a Raptor or Seagate 7200.10. (or some snazzy raid)

WD 10k Raptor already

I'd personally wait on the 8800GTX. At present, there are still a lot of driver issues with the 8800, especially in Vista. If you're running a 7800 or better, I'd hang on to that until the 8800 is a bit more stable etc. Other than that it looks great.

Edit: Oh yeah... take some of the CPU savings and get a bigger monitor.

OC database

Check out the link above.. I'm of the same opinion as Winnow in that the 6700 is a waste of money. If you're not going to go extreme, just go with the 6600. That chip has been OC'd to over 4.0 MHz. Spend the money you save on water cooling and follow those footsteps. The details are posted in the thread. I don't know what 'phase' cooling is, but that was pushed just over 4.2 MHz on the 6600.

Granted those chips probably won't last all that long depending on the temps.. but cpu replacement is somewhat frequent anyway.

Fuck Newegg.

Bastards are too good. I didn't expect my package to arrive earlier than stated, especially the last week before Christmas and with the order dropping from the TN warehouse, so now I've got to drive all the way home at lunch just to put a stupid note on my door allowing the package to be left on my doorstep. Go go Newegg. Still the best out there.

noel wrote:I'd personally wait on the 8800GTX. At present, there are still a lot of driver issues with the 8800, especially in Vista. If you're running a 7800 or better, I'd hang on to that until the 8800 is a bit more stable etc. Other than that it looks great.

Edit: Oh yeah... take some of the CPU savings and get a bigger monitor.

At the moment, I'm running a 6800GT AGP , but I'm assuming drivers will become much more stable after Vista is launched.

I have a 20.1" Dell Widescreen. I wanted to get the 30 inch but not until the price goes down significantly.

One nice thing about newsgroups, even if you aren't a pirate, is being able to go there and download the latest Windows XP Pro with SP2 and all updates integrated through Nov'06.

What a time saver. Now, hopefully no one steals newegg package sitting on my doorstep before I get home this evening.

Nice. new 6600 Quad Core will be available available for ~$530 sometime in Q1 2007. E6600 will drop in price but not until Q2 2007. Looks like by the end of next year we can swap out the E6600's for quad 6600's if there's a reason to.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36494

Intel Q6600 Quad core launches on the 7th

Desktop Roadmap Pre CES

By Fuad Abazovic: Wednesday 20 December 2006, 12:38

CHIP FIRM, INTEL will introduce a second quad-core CPU and it has scheduled the launch for January the 7th, just a day before CES starts.

The spec is the same as for the Q6700 CPU, but the new one runs at 2.4GHz instead of 2.66.

Intel plans to price it at $851 per piece. But if you are patient and you want to wait for Q1 2007, then you will be able to buy the same CPU for $530. The fastest Quad core, the Q6700 won't drop its price anytime soon.

Its dual-core brother - the E6600 - costs $316 at the same clock speed and it will drop to $224 in the second quarter 2007. It's up to you whether you want to wait or get one now. µ

I was thinking of upgrading soon. Been two years with my current one. I'll probably stick it out a bit longer and go with a quad depending on benchmarks and such if there's a big difference. Guessing most software wont be updated to take advantage of it so it's probalby not a big deal in the short term but as I usually keep a PC for 2+ years I'm thinking long-term!

It seems there is a lot of good information being thrown around in this thread so I figure I'll throw out a couple questions.

I've been planning on upgrading to a new computer soon since mines a couple years old now. Athlon XP 3200, 1.5GB RAM and a ATI 9800 Pro. I'd like to upgrade to something that will last me another couple years and will be able to handle the new games coming out. To that end I was figuring I'd want a DX10 card and a dual core processor but I'm hearing lots of conflicting information on the DX10 cards.

What would be people's reccomendations if I was going to either build a new computer in January or wait a couple months and do it closer to the summer. I'd be looking for something probably around $1k-1.5k sans monitor, already have a LCD.

Aslanna wrote:I was thinking of upgrading soon. Been two years with my current one. I'll probably stick it out a bit longer and go with a quad depending on benchmarks and such if there's a big difference. Guessing most software wont be updated to take advantage of it so it's probalby not a big deal in the short term but as I usually keep a PC for 2+ years I'm thinking long-term!

Well, at worst, with a current motherboard, you just need to pull out the duo core and pop in a quad.

Don't wait too long! If you're going to wait another three+ months, then you'll save about 60.00 on the E6600. Not worth waiting for me. I think it's best to pick a "sweet spot" for what you'll pay for a processor then buy when ready to upgrade. The 3800 I bought a year ago costs half of what I paid for it. If the $530 sounds good for a quad 660 then you won't have to wait too long...although Im confused by the wording about the quad pricing...wondering if they meant Q2 for the $530 price as initial pricing is $851 but it's not even out yet so it should be at a premium for at least awhile since the current quad sells for $1300-1600.

There are several reviews benchmarking the Intel 7600 quad. It will give you and idea of real world benefits over a duo

http://www.techspot.com/review/27-intel ... 6700-quad/




Got my stuff, MB is Rev 2 as hoped, all looks good. Will be a day or two installing. Taking my time.

Get a 40 gig raptor to run windows off, they are not expensive and you will be happier

As a point of interest, I finished building the system just a little bit ago. I put in my old harddrive that was running Vista RC2. Vista was able to boot up, redetect all of my hardware, and run flawlessly with only a single reboot.

Unfortunately due to driver availability, I've decided to go back to XP temporarily and monitor the status of Vista drivers for all of my gear. Vista runs fine, but there are a few minor annoyances like not being able to update my BIOS in Vista that I want to address before I go back to Vista.

On a positive note, the Zalman HSFs and the Sonata II are whisper quiet, and now the loudest gear in my system is the harddrive and DVD drive.

For those of you getting 8800gtx's and 8800gts's, i highly recommend getting one of these:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=370034
or the single slot version (sorry it's out of stock, but tons of other places have them).

The exhaust blower sucks directly from the exhaust of either of the 8800 cards, improving temps greatly (around 10C) (it has been said to improve case temps, but i don't know how much since it's so close to the 8800)

I am still waiting for a post of someone taking off the cooler and reseating with AS5.

Quite a smooth upgrade so far.

I took my time removing the old X2 CPU, motherboard and memory. The Gigabyte DS3 is a very nice MB. Smaller than your normal ATX so was easy to stick it in my case with all the wires etc still there from the last install that you would normally not have to deal with a clean install from scratch.

System booted up on first try. I added the .1V to the memory in the bios and installed Windows XP Pro. I guess the Rev 2 edition of this MB fixed the PATA DVD drive recognition issue because it showed up in windows before I started installing all the drivers.

It's strange how the Fan on the E6600 doesn't start right away. There's a five second delay or so which is normal but still made me nervous that I was about to fry my CPU. Anyway, don't panic if your CPU fan takes a second or two to crank up with the E6600s!

The Gigabyte board comes with some snazzy OC software so I can do all my OCing in windows instead of the bios. I clicked a button and was already at 2.8+ GHz from 2.4GHz. I need to actually research some of the timings though and tweak it properly.

The biggest pain in the ass now is installing all the apps etc. I figured out how to copy over my Firefox bookmarks and preferences so that's a good thing. I have my old X2 OS hard drive setup as a second hard drive so I have access to as many old applications config files, email, etc that I can figure out how to salvage.

Hopefully I set up remote desktop connection correctly. I'll find that out tomorow at work.

So far, an A+ for the CPU, motherboard and memory. It's been a flawless upgrade up to this point which was helped by grabbing the copy of Win XP with all the updates through last month already integrated.

The only change I made so far was scraping the thermal crap off the E6600 and putting some arctic silver on it. To Intel's credit, the stuff they had on the bottom was actually paste and not a pad like the X2 had...made it easier to remove!

There's sooo much shit to reinstall or reconfigure after a fresh install. That's the biggest time consumer of doing something like this. I'll probably eventually install Vista on top of XP just because I'm too lazy to do all the reinstalls yet again...maybe clone my HD beforehand just in case things don't go well.

The Gigabyte DS3 is "Quad Core Optimized" and "Vista Premium Ready" or so the box says! Ignoring the marketing, it does seem like this motherboard has its shit together with the Rev 2 and latest bios already there. The onboard 8 Channel HD Audio sounds nice so far although I only use 2 channels. Worth a look if not going SLi and want great bang for the buck.

I'm building my self a new on some time after the new year myself. Mostly waiting for Vista driver fixes and stuff for Vid Cards. Here is also a good list of power supplies that are good for higher end PCs http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103
Figured it was time to upgrade since Its finally getting hard to play the newer games with the graphics turned up. This comp has defintly served its purpose seeing its 6 years old.

Right now this is what I'm looking at.

Case: P180
MB: MSI 965 Platinum
Ram: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB)
P/S: XCLIO GREATPOWER X14S4P4 750W
CPU: It will be aCore 2 Duo Just don't know which one yet
Cooling: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro
Video: Waiting to decide Will be DX10 though

'Tis the season for new machines, huh?

I'm glad to hear that you're having success with the Gigabyte DS3, since I have one sitting next to me right now, along with a P180, CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB), Arctic Freezer 7.... all just waiting for the E6600 that I'm getting for xmas in a few days.

I'm up in the air, however, on what to do about a video card. Do I go low-end now, just something to get me by until the dx10 cards fall into my price range ($200-$300)? 7600GT seems to get some pretty good marks in the $100-$120 price range...

Or do I go 'best bang for the buck', and drop $250 on one of the new X1950 XT cards, which are getting great reviews in the $200-$400 card range.

I guess what I'm looking for is a) how long before the dx10 cards fall below $300? and b) realistically, how long before it becomes 'necessary' that I have a dx10 card? 1 year? 2 years?

I'd personally wait on the DX10 cards at least until Vista is out. I think the prices will come down quick. I also think the 8800 is going to be a short-lived card as it's coming out at an awkward time. That's purely opinion, so feel free to ignore. See if you can get a BFGTech 7800GT for cheap. It's a good card, and it will play everything current quite well at high resolution with lots of video features on.

flankmen wrote:'Tis the season for new machines, huh?
I'm glad to hear that you're having success with the Gigabyte DS3, since I have one sitting next to me right now, along with a P180, CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB), Arctic Freezer 7.... all just waiting for the E6600 that I'm getting for xmas in a few days.

Nice. How long have you had that DS3? Is it a Rev 2? Should say on the box. Even my MB userguide has Rev 2 on the cover.

If it isn't, just be sure it has the F7 bios or upgrade to it after installing. Someone linked all the latest drivers (chipset, LAN, audio, etc) for the DS3 in a forum. I'll find that later and link it here.

I'd go cheap (7600GT) if you don't already have a PCI-E card and wait for the DX10 card until a few months into 2007 when Vista is out and ATI has their R600 card out which will drop the prices on the 8800GTX/GT and most likely nVidia will introduce a lower end DX10 compatible version of the 8800 in the 200-300 range by then. The E6600 and any PCI-E card will give you good results with the current games.

Why is everyone getting the Artic Cooling Freezer Pro 7? With a P180 case (which everyone seems to have now with great airflow), the stock HSF on the E6600 will be plenty to OC to ~3GHz. Are you guys buying an OEM E6600 without the retail fan/heatsink?

Fuck reinstalling everything from scratch... ><

Also, fuck cleaning up the rats nest of PSU cabling!


What idle temperatures should I expect to see on my CPU/GPU?

I realize it varies a lot, but what are you guys seeing? I haven't closed up my case yet, but I'm seeing 39 degrees on the CPU and 37 on my GPU under no load with the fans running in silent mode.

Is this pretty normal?

I might have to ditch the 'Advanced Chassis Air Guide' in the Sonata II because I don't think it's going to fit with the Zalman CNPS9500.

Winnow wrote:Nice. How long have you had that DS3? Is it a Rev 2? Should say on the box. Even my MB userguide has Rev 2 on the cover.

Yessir, it's Rev 2, just delivered this week.

Winnow wrote:Why is everyone getting the Artic Cooling Freezer Pro 7? With a P180 case (which everyone seems to have now with great airflow), the stock HSF on the E6600 will be plenty to OC to ~3GHz. Are you guys buying an OEM E6600 without the retail fan/heatsink?

Reason 1: I changed my mind on the case at the last minute, as I found a P180 on sale ($79.99 after rebate, free shipping, from frys) after I had ordered the freezer pro 7. The case that I had picked prior to the P180 was slightly more questionable in regards to airflow.
Reason 2: call me old fashioned, but the idea of OC'ing with the stock HSF makes me nervous, even if everyone is reporting success with the dual cores. Unnecessary? Probably. But hey, it's only $30, and helps me sleep better at night.

BFG Tech 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 for $78.99 ($143.99 - $65.00 rebate) seems to be a decent card for a good price, considering I'd probably only use it for a year or so.

Woo, Rev 2. You're in good shape : )

One thing to look out for, the DS3 12V (4 pin) power connector is way at the top of the board (with the bottom being the pci slots) and with the P180's power supply being located at the bottom, I actually had to use the little 12V power supply cable extension I originally got back with the X2 3800 upgrade. It's only a few bucks but I think the Tagan's cables may be shorter than some PSUs so you might be ok. If not, I hear Siji has a spare! Also, I have the 480-u22 Tagan and Siji had a higher Watt Tagan which may have had longer cables.

Since you already have the PSU MB and Case, you might want to check it out so you're not disappointed on Xmas.

It's a whopping $3.29

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812198005

if you end up needing it. hopefully not but I didn't see your power supply brand/model mentioned.

Picked up an Antec Truepower Trio 550 last week at C-usa for $70 after rebate. Haven't opened the box, but from everything I've read it seems to have some pretty decent cable length.

I suppose I should have just ponied up for a 650W for an eventual dx10 vid card, but I'm on a budget....

flankmen wrote:Picked up an Antec Truepower Trio 550 last week at C-usa for $70 after rebate. Haven't opened the box, but from everything I've read it seems to have some pretty decent cable length.

I suppose I should have just ponied up for a 650W for an eventual dx10 vid card, but I'm on a budget....

You should be fine (anything over 500W (quality) should work for an 8800GTx if you're not going with SLi and you don't have anything unusual like 10 HDs or something. I'd probably even keep my 480W Tagan with a new 8800GTX but I think I'll be rebuilding my X2 3800+ as a second computer since I'd just need another PSU and case after getting the DX10 card.

Hope all goes well with your new build!

Just wanted to let everyone know that my newly revamped system rocks. It is also meeting and exceeding all of my goals.

1. It's upgradable. I'm going to be swapping the power supply with a Corsair 650 watt, Memory with some Corsair 1066Mhz DDR2, and CPU with a 6600 in the short term (next two months), and as soon as the BFGTech 8800GTX drops under $500 I'm going to be picking up one of those. There's plenty of space for my minimalist performance system (no SLI/RAID) in the Sonata 2 and it's a great case overall.

2. It's basically silent. The only time I can hear that it's even on is if I'm accessing the harddrive or DVD drive, or if I manually turn up the fans. My CPU is sitting at about 41 degrees and my GPU is sitting at 38ish most of the time without overclocking. Even with the fans at higher settings, it's still barely audible.

Thanks again for all the help.