VeeshanVault

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/11/0 ... index.html

SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Microsoft Corp. said Wednesday it has completed work on its long-delayed Windows Vista operating system and plans to release it to consumers January 30.

The announcement means Microsoft is on track to meet its revised release schedule.

Jim Allchin, co-president of the Microsoft division that includes Windows, said in a conference call that Windows Vista's code was released to begin manufacturing copies early Wednesday.

"This is a good day," Allchin said.

Microsoft had previously said it would release Vista to big business clients at an event at the Nasdaq Stock Market on November 30, and make it available to consumers sometime in January.

The release will be the first major upgrade in more than five years to the operating system that powers most of the world's personal computers. Vista boasts improved graphics, more effective tools for finding documents, pictures and other items on personal computers, and a new Internet browser, among other changes.

The system has been plagued by a series of delays, the most recent of which was blamed in part on efforts to improve security.

In its quest to get Vista out the door, Redmond-based Microsoft also has had to scale back some of its original goals, including scrapping a more sophisticated method for sorting and organizing data. Analysts have said that scaling back the system could hurt the company if people don't see enough of a reason to upgrade.

The most recent delays also forced Microsoft to miss the holiday season, potentially dealing a blow to computer makers and retailers who may have been hoping for the new system to boost gift sales.

Microsoft and computer manufacturers are offering holiday shoppers coupons good for a free or discounted Vista upgrade.

I sense some major attempts at pirated copies of Vista during the Christmas season.

I'm extremely excited for Vista. It's the first time I plan on buying an OS at launch, as opposed to pirating a copy. I might even pop the $400 to get the ultimate version right out of the gates. A lot of tweaks will probably have been done by the time January 30 rolls around too.

I'm really looking forward to Games for Windows and Live Anywhere. I believe eventually I'll be able to play games on my PC against friends on their 360s.

Time to start watching the prices on DX10 cards. Despite the bugs reported on the NVIDIA 8800s, I'm still very interested in them. But $659? I'd have thought they would have released a few versions, some mid and low-end, instead of targeting the bleeding edge immediately. I can wait.

The most important question:

Will it work with WoW?

This accelerates my plan to buy a copy XP-64.

I won't be buying Vista or any product that requires it.

Aabidano wrote:I won't be buying Vista or any product that requires it.

Why not? Did you put off buying Windows 95 and plan to stick with DOS 6.1 forever, too?

I will buy Vista as soon as someone wins a lawsuit and I can play my pirated music/programs/movies whenever I want with whatever program I want same goes for media player 11.

I'm stuck having to buy the Ultimate Edition because remote connection (host) isn't available on any of the home editions and the Media Center isn't available on any business edition save for the Ultimate Edition.

If I look at Vista Ult-Ed as buying my way to remote conenct to my home PC from work to do anything I want during the day, that's worth a lot to me. I've got to make sure remote connecting from an XP system to a Vista system works ok then I'll buy.

~200.00 would be ok by me to buy a standard off the shelf Vista, but ~400.00 for Ultimate seems a bit much just for the Remote Connection feature that I need beyond the Home Editions. Then again, being able to do everything at work using my home PC w/out big brother watching is priceless when it comes to improving life at work!

For that kinda cash, I'd seriously consider realvnc or some third party remote connection software.

Zaelath wrote:For that kinda cash, I'd seriously consider realvnc or some third party remote connection software.

I used to use GoToMyPc

https://www.gotomypc.com/

Which is a great option for web based access to your home PC but was pricey back then (~200/year) I think the cost has come down since remote access is used a bunch these days.

It all has to do with how your company monitors stuff, ports used, installed or not installed applications, etc, basically allowing you to remote connect to your PC from anywhere in the world as long as you have net access without the need for any special installed software.

GoToMyPc connects securely via their own web based servers so there's no setup involved (not that XP's Remote Access is hard)

It's possible to use VNC type remote access but then you have to start playing around with finding open ports, etc. while with GoToMyPc, as long as you have web access to their servers, you can remote connect. The easiest option by far is XP's built in Remote Desktop Connection if it hasn't been turned off by your IT dept.

Funkmasterr wrote:I will buy Vista as soon as someone wins a lawsuit and I can play my pirated music/programs/movies whenever I want with whatever program I want same goes for media player 11.

good luck with that.

Funkmasterr wrote:I will buy Vista as soon as someone wins a lawsuit and I can play my pirated music/programs/movies whenever I want with whatever program I want same goes for media player 11.

One of many reasons I don't see Vista in my future, I have no illegal software, music or anything else on my computer but what I run is none of their concern or business whatsoever.

It's an insecure, feature poor bloated PoS, future features on MS's roadmap (that they're too incompetent to get in on schedule) will make it much worse. I'll be heading the Apple or Linux route when forced to at a guess.

Most companies make products that improve generation over generation. MS carries the old garbage along, rolls around in it a bit with then multiplies the problems by 100s of times rather than simplifying things.

In short they still learned from past mistakes and figured out how to write decent software.

Aabidano wrote: Most companies make products that improve generation over generation. MS carries the old garbage along, rolls around in it a bit with then multiplies the problems by 100s of times rather than simplifying things.

It's truly a case of damned if you do, damned if you won't. If MS dropped support as fast as apple and it's devs do, people would raise a shitstorm.

It's impossible to find any software online now for MacOSX 10.2 or below nowadays, Wanna update to 10.4? That'll be 129$ please.

So if you would rather pay a ridiculous high markup on hardware (albeit very well designed hardware), being forced to buy a OS update every 12-16 months for 100+$, be my guest.

MS just recently dropped support for Windows ME and 98. That's a long damned time in the IT field. They really give you your money's worth.

BTW - All this post was written using Vista RC2 and it's a good OS that's gonna be great (once the 3rd party devs start cranking out stuff seriously - which is now since Vista is Golden).

No Vista for me, SO not impressed by it. Bloated, slow and fancy looking.. and so not worth it. I would highly recommend staying away until at least SP1.

I see no reason to immediately upgrade to Vista until the DX10 games make a difference and I've upgraded to new video card.

..as long as you're using Copernic you don't need the better-but-not-as-good-as-Copernic search features of Vista!

Hm anyone seen this? Could have sworn MS said there would be no DX10 for XP.

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35110

I'm pretty much obliged to get a copy, though work will be paying for it...

Zaelath wrote:I'm pretty much obliged to get a copy, though work will be paying for it...

I was just upgraded to XP pro and a Lenovo T60 at work, I was perfectly satisfied with 2k for work stuff.

All my actual work gets done on Solaris, linux, and HPUX systems so it's just for mail and such. We (thankfully) don't run anything that matters on an MS OS and don't seem likely too in the future. The customers haven't asked for it and don't want it (again thankfully).

Vista RTM is already cracked. The final release is already posted. Beta keys work as part of the crack.

I still plan on buying my copy but I'm in no rush to upgrade after playing around with Vista during the beta, I'm happy with XP for now.

Even if you did this, you'd have to work around the updates again and get them the way you get them for pirated XP these days. Probably going to be more of a pain but for those that don't want to pay, there's a way.

You can find the crack in the normal spots but this is the gist of it:

The ability to use flash cards as system RAM is pretty fucking sweet. I have 2 4g flash sticks laying around that will get some use.

I'm really in no hurry to upgrade though.

Aabidano wrote:It's an insecure...

It's worlds more secure than XP. If you're comparing it to *nix, you're not being realistic. *nix has yet to become an OS that can be used by the masses. Given that greater than 90% of all the problems with security are due to the masses being stupid, there's not a lot MS can do about that. At least after that statement I knew I could ignore the rest of your post.

Have fun with your Mac. I hear they don't have any viruses or spyware!

Funkmasterr: you're an idiot.

noel wrote:

Aabidano wrote:It's an insecure...

It's worlds more secure than XP.

[sarcasm] Yes yes, and XP was better than 2k, which was better than NT4...[/sarcasm] Eventually that was true bit it's a whole separate issue.

I've a very nice bridge to sell you.

In reality the code has even more duplications and holes, most of which have hooks to make them network capable. In short, they aren't moving forward, just continuing to shovel out more of the same. I know, lets sue the people exploiting the crappy code!

How many times does the same dog have to bite you? For at least the first couple years it'll be exponentially worse than it's predecessors, just like every MS product that preceded it. Yes they will (mostly) fix it eventually, about the time it's replacement is due out. Which won't include most of the previous fixes and will include a whole host of new issues.

*Edit - In six months or a year it will be a decent desktop system, and will require people to upgrade systems because the OS itself sucks up so many additional resources for very little benefit.

Aabidano wrote:In reality the code has even more duplications and holes, most of which have hooks to make them network capable. In short, they aren't moving forward, just continuing to shovel out more of the same. I know, lets sue the people exploiting the crappy code!

Unless you're working at MS, you're not in a position to know that, but feel free to keep parroting the whining you've heard on Slashdot.

How many times does the same dog have to bite you? For at least the first couple years it'll be exponentially worse than it's predecessors, just like every MS product that preceded it. Yes they will (mostly) fix it eventually, about the time it's replacement is due out. Which won't include most of the previous fixes and will include a whole host of new issues.

I haven't been bitten by shit, but since you seem to know everything... here's the million dollar question:

What's the motherfucking alternative? Keep burying your head in the sand and dreaming of a world where every user runs a locked down *nix system, but that's not the reality and it's never going to be the reality. The reason MS's OSes have so many discovered vulnerabilities is because of the number of people using the OS and because historically (that's changing a bit with Vista) MS has balanced the fine line of user-friendly and security on the side of user-friendly.

Pull your head out of your ass so you stop talking out of it.

noel wrote:What's the motherfucking alternative?

On the desktop? Good question, no good\realistic answer currently

Server side? Lots, Sun and HP still dominate the high end market, MS has never really gotten a foothold there. Only partially due to the platforms available to them. We're beginning to deploy product on ATCA chassis running commercial versions of linux, looks very promising and scales very well.

Ask yourself this question: Is MS's place on the market due to technical merit? Or an amazing marketing department coupled with competitors that were completely stupid from a marketing perspective?

Aabidano wrote:Ask yourself this question: Is MS's place on the market due to technical merit? Or an amazing marketing department coupled with competitors that were completely stupid from a marketing perspective?

1. I don't recall ever stating that Vista should be a server OS. I've described it to friends as 'XP in an Armani suit'. I do however think that there's still a marked improvement, particularly in the manner in which the OS protects itself from stupid users and malicious code, and I think that makes it a reasonable upgrade. My biggest complaint (I don't have this unrealistic expectation that an OS, or any other software for that matter, should be or can be completely secured) is their policy about hardware upgrades which I think is totally ridiculous if it is released as I've heard it would be (only two major HW upgrades per license -- yeah right).

2. See the thing you're failing to see is that though they might have arrived at their position due to marketing, it's precisely because of that marketing that they've been placed in a position where they have a feduciary responsibility to ensure that they aren't releasing shitty, unsecure, unfinished products. The number of desktops they have out there in business and at home is a revenue stream that they want to protect, and in order to do that they have to sell a product that performs to a certain level. Because of the number of desktops out there, when there's a vulnerability it's highly public and fixed in as rapid a manner MS can manage. Yes I'm aware of instances where users have fixed things more quickly (users that don't have to take into account all of the other implications to the OS), but for the most part MS gets their bugs fixed in a rapid manner and have done a lot to improve things over time.

I'm all for Bashing MS when they do something idiotic, but it's annoying as hell when people bash them just for the sake of bashing them. We're [IT Professionals] far better off with a single desktop OS to support and train on than having hundreds of them out there to deal with. At this point, Linux has come a very long way but it's really only the Mac OS that can be considered a reasonable desktop OS replacement for Windows.

noel wrote:

Aabidano wrote:Ask yourself this question: Is MS's place on the market due to technical merit? Or an amazing marketing department coupled with competitors that were completely stupid from a marketing perspective?

1. I don't recall ever stating that Vista should be a server OS. I've described it to friends as 'XP in an Armani suit'. I do however think that there's still a marked improvement, particularly in the manner in which the OS protects itself from stupid users and malicious code, and I think that makes it a reasonable upgrade. My biggest complaint (I don't have this unrealistic expectation that an OS, or any other software for that matter, should be or can be completely secured) is their policy about hardware upgrades which I think is totally ridiculous if it is released as I've heard it would be (only two major HW upgrades per license -- yeah right).

They quickly backed down from the two reinstalls position as soon as people started reading the EULA and posting about it everywhere. They've decided they don't really want to "alienate" the enthusiasts market, since they know 90% of their early adopter market is enthusiasts.

Zaelath wrote:They quickly backed down from the two reinstalls position as soon as people started reading the EULA and posting about it everywhere. They've decided they don't really want to "alienate" the enthusiasts market, since they know 90% of their early adopter market is enthusiasts.

Thank god. That was about the stupidest thing I'd ever heard.

Has anyone that beta tested Vista gotten an offer from Microsoft to download a free copy of the final?

This will be a nice present if it's true.

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=36173

Thanks Andareed who posted this news in our forums, yes thats right MSDN users need no longer to wait.

Initial reports are that this is different from the leaked version that has been available for about a week on all sorts of torrent sites, the hash is different:

en_windows_vista_x86_dvd_X12-34293.iso = b71e04564ca22e4d9928e59298eff87cf62b382b
LRMCFRE_EN_DVD.iso (BillGates) = b82590481755ba3420e7314bf82b8916a90963b5

This single download includes the following Windows Vista editions:

* Windows Vista Business
* Windows Vista Business N
* Windows Vista Home Basic
* Windows Vista Home Basic N
* Windows Vista Home Premium
* Windows Vista Starter
* Windows Vista Ultimate

The product key used to install Windows Vista will determine which edition will be installed. The product keys used to install Windows Vista Business N, Windows Vista Home Basic N, and Windows Vista Starter are not currently available.

Also US testers may find an invitation to download any version of Vista final they choose (a product key is then supplied for the version specified) my source tells me that international users will start to see this appearing on their connect page within the next day or so. It's unclear if every tester will get a full version of their choice. We'll update this when Microsoft gets back to us.

Oops, I didn't submit a bug report. Anyone else submit one? ...or are all getting standard Vista and only the buggers getting business/ulimate?

To everyone that took part in the Windows Vista beta test (as far as I know, about 20,000), only those that submitted at least 1 bug report will be offered a complimentary copy of Windows Vista Business or Ultimate.

Microsoft sent out a mail to those testers just a few minutes ago which specified that it is being offered as a download only. No media will be mailed, and only currently active, invited members of the Windows Vista technical beta program who filed at least one bug are receiving this offer.

Kudos to Microsoft! I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that they have really shown their appreciation towards the people that actually took the time to submit the bugs that were eventually worked out of the final code, some bugs that were submitted by beta testers didn't make the final, among those is the now infamous explorer folder selection bug* where the folder remains selected in the tree view, deleting a file or folder in the folder view (right pane) actually deletes the selection in the tree menu!

Microsoft had already announced that this was too late to be included in the signed off code and it will be fixed with a patch update.

HOLY SHIT WOOT!!!

I submitted a few bugs during my stint as a beta tester for the Media Center Extender program!!! Free/Legit copy of Vista Ultimate for me!! =)

Thanks MS

You can already find an ISO patch/update to the 'BillGates' version that will make it the same as the one being released in the previous posts. It's about 600k in size.

What's up with that sig Siji? Most of it seems OK but why would hard drive size, drive letter, or how much space you have left on your hard drive matter to anyone interested in specs? Type of hard drive, RPM/cache, etc would be more useful!

It's a nice idea for tech boards but those particular stats don't seem to be critical!