Is Ramsey's killer found??

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 17, 2006, 9:54 am

It only took 10 years but damn.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/ ... spect.html

cid · Post by **cid** » August 17, 2006, 11:26 am

Too bad her mom passed before her killer was finaly caught.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 17, 2006, 11:33 am

It has to be a real weight off the husband's shoulders to be cleared of public suspicion in the murder of their daughter.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 17, 2006, 11:57 am

Will be interesting to see how it washes out.. I know they've said, "He knew stuff only the murderer could know" but that assumes information can't be passed, so isn't completely conclusive.

I wonder if Matt and Trey will issue an appology for the episode where Butters mother tries to kill him...

miir · Post by **miir** » August 17, 2006, 12:09 pm

I could never understand what kind of twisted parents would put their child through sick shit like beauty contests for 5 year olds.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 17, 2006, 1:06 pm

You know...

I am actually surprised it was not the parents, I honeslty figured that anyone who dressed their child up in clothes and makeup like that was pervy.

Now I think they (well he now) are pervy but not murderers.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 17, 2006, 1:19 pm

Kylere wrote:You know...

I am actually surprised it was not the parents, I honeslty figured that anyone who dressed their child up in clothes and makeup like that was pervy.

Now I think they (well he now) are pervy but not mrderers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the pagent thing was all the mother anyways. In all those documentaries that they aired, it's always the mom that was all into that stuff.

Then again, supporting that shit is as bad as forcing your kid to participate.

I think the people that truly believed that he was innocent were few and far between.

If I were John Ramsey right now, I would sue all the tabloids for 10 years worth of slander.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 17, 2006, 1:57 pm

You know, I can't really recall ever having a conversation about this case on here, I was interested to hear what everyone thought about it. The Ramseys were next door neighbors to my dad's best friend and belonged to our country club and ran in the same circles as my folks, and while I don't know them very well I have met them a couple times. My dad has always maintained that John Ramsey was one of the nicest people he's ever met and that there was absolutely no way that he could have had a hand in his daughter's death.

Over the last 10 years those people were so vilified by the press/tabloids, it's kind of sickening. I was at a wedding that they were at in Northern Michigan overlooking a lake, and the lake had 5-10 boats full of paparazzi with huge telephoto lenses taking pictures the whole time, it was pretty weird. Their daughter is brutally assaulted and murdered (at Christmas, no less), they spend years and their (considerable) fortune trying to clear their name in the eyes of the law, and then the paparazzi are at every turn harassing the shit out of them and slandering them... that's just a fucking heinous thing to do.

And in that article, in reference to their crucifixion by the media over the last decade, they get

JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, had initially been suspected of being involved in the crime.

I hate the fucking media.

miir wrote:I could never understand what kind of twisted parents would put their child through sick shit like beauty contests for 5 year olds.

To hear my parents tell it, JonBenet was more of a tomboy who was in like 4 of those pageants in her life. Yet there's a short video clip and a photo of her at one of them, and that's all that anyone will ever see her as. I'm sure it has nothing to do with making it a more compelling story. But yeah, pretty much anyone who would have their daughter in a pageant is a twisted enough pervert to sexually assault and then murder her.

Animalor wrote:If I were John Ramsey right now, I would sue all the tabloids for 10 years worth of slander.

I know that he has several lawsuits in progress, I hope that this arrest will facilitate his victories in those cases.

My dad and I were together last night when we saw the story break on the news. I know he made a few phone calls and was trying to get more info, though I haven't heard if he heard anything else that hadn't been reported. Apparently Patsy was aware of this suspect before she died, they'd known about him for several months, and she took comfort in the fact that her daughter's killer would soon be captured.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 17, 2006, 3:17 pm

I actually cared very little about this case and don't know all that much about it.... All I remember is being creeped out seeing all those pictures of the little girl wearing a few pounds of makeup and dressed up to look like a vegas showgirl.

anyone who would have their daughter in a pageant is a twisted enough pervert to sexually assault and then murder her

I wasn't implying that at all. Hell, I didn;t even know that she was sexually assaulted. The only thing I really remember about that media circus was the creepy photos of the little girl and her dumb name.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 17, 2006, 4:06 pm

At least we now know where Atokal has been the last several months...and where he will be for the next several years.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2006, 4:13 pm

Last I heard, there wasn't a law that prevented parents from using their children to live their lives in various capacities up until they're 18. It happens all the time with kids and sports, kids and musical instruments, and kids with beauty pageants. The popularity of talent shows on TV does nothing to help this situation.

I wouldn't presume guilt of anyone simply for doing one of the above, I'd just question their motivations behind entering their children into these activities.

My parents made me play the piano for several years and I hated it. I still do. On the flip side, parents should encourage their kids to do something, just be a little less specific and introduce them to a wide variety of interests and see what the kid likes.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 17, 2006, 4:27 pm

I can't believe you're actually trying to compare sports and hobbies to making your little girl dress up like a cheap whore and be judged by their looks...

Moron.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 17, 2006, 4:33 pm

Hey Winnow, just because there is not a law against people desperately trying to live through their children, they should not.

Before the politicos came up with the "for the children" concept to support their pork barrel BS we had a thing called common sense.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 17, 2006, 4:38 pm

miir wrote:I can't believe you're actually trying to compare sports and hobbies to making your little girl dress up like a cheap whore and be judged by their looks...

Moron.

Going to have to disagree with you canuck. Those parents using their daughter, dressing her up for shows is no different than the parents who push their sons to be baseball, football, etc players. The girls talent is her looks, the boys talent is their physical ability. No different in my opinion.

In fact, many of you are sounding a lot like a religious right wacko would.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 17, 2006, 4:42 pm

Oh and Sylvus. Thank you for that side of the story. It's nice to actually hear from someone on the inside as opposed to what the media's angle has been over the past decade. Thank you.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2006, 4:44 pm

miir wrote:I can't believe you're actually trying to compare sports and hobbies to making your little girl dress up like a cheap whore and be judged by their looks...

Moron.

Hope your wife's tubes are tied!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 17, 2006, 5:01 pm

Yeah, seriously. Welcome to the real world, where people ARE judged by their looks.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2006, 5:08 pm

Looks like the guards are preparing this guy for his stay in prison with some early manhandling.

Anything more than a handful and you're risking a sprained thumb.

laneela · Post by **laneela** » August 17, 2006, 5:27 pm

Entering your child in pageants and enrolling them in music lessons or sports teams really aren't the same. There have been plenty of studies that show that children who are musical tend to do better in school - plus, music is cultural. Sports are an entertaining form of excercise - also good for kids. Entering a child in a pageant *could* (I'm not going to say that it definitely would) subconsciously teach a child that she/he will be judged by their looks solely, as most child beauty pageants don't focus all that much on talent and intellect.

If a child shows interest in pageantry, then I think there's no harm in it. I also feel that children shouldn't be forced into continuing with any activitity (be it music, art, sports, whatever) that they're obviously not interested in once adequate amount of time has passed and you know it's not your child being stubborn and not wanting to give it some time to grow on them.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2006, 6:23 pm

laneela wrote: If a child shows interest in pageantry, then I think there's no harm in it. I also feel that children shouldn't be forced into continuing with any activitity (be it music, art, sports, whatever) that they're obviously not interested in once adequate amount of time has passed and you know it's not your child being stubborn and not wanting to give it some time to grow on them.

It depends on the motivations. Someone who starts their kid playing tennis at 6 and makes him keep taking lessons when the kid wants to play something else isn't doing it because it's "healthy". Same with the parent that makes the kid play the violin when they really enjoy playing the kazoo. You're living in a dream world if you don't think an unfortunate number of parents make their kids play various musical instruments or participate in a particular sport because they are looking out for what most interests the kid.

Having children involved in sports of some kind and music is good, but only if the kid has a chance to figure things out on their own. It was a minor thing in an otherwise great upbringing but it still got on my nerves.

I primarily played soccer, baseball and tennis growing up. All by my own choice. The piano sucked ass as my dad regretted not taking lessons himself and was envious of a friend that could play. That's the wrong reason to have your kid do something.

When I was 9 years old, I put a sign up in the front window of our house saying "My parents are forcing me to play the piano". I got out of the lessons that month! Amazingly, when we moved, they tried to make me play again and I had to audition with the teacher. I slammed the keys randomly until the teacher told me to stop and told my parents that she can't teach a child that doesn't want to be taught. That was the end of it finally. Traumatized I tell you! To this day, hearing the "Piano Man" makes me want to punch someone!

noel · Post by **noel** » August 17, 2006, 6:47 pm

I agree with most of what you're saying Winnow. I think it's important to expose your children to things that you think they might be interested in at an early age, especially if you think they might have some sort of talent for it.

Out of curiosity... Do you wish you'd gone through with the piano lessons now that you're grown up?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2006, 6:54 pm

noel wrote: Out of curiosity... Do you wish you'd gone through with the piano lessons now that you're grown up?

I have no interest in playing the piano. I really don't have an interest in any musical instrument but would probably opt for the drums or guitar if I decided to try something out.

I just saw this picture on CNN. Wow, it looks like one of the big head funny pictures but it's real:

laneela · Post by **laneela** » August 17, 2006, 7:04 pm

Winnow wrote: It depends on the motivations. Someone who starts their kid playing tennis at 6 and makes him keep taking lessons when the kid wants to play something else isn't doing it because it's "healthy". Same with the parent that makes the kid play the violin when they really enjoy playing the kazoo. You're living in a dream world if you don't think an unfortunate number of parents make their kids play various musical instruments or participate in a particular sport because they are looking out for what most interests the kid.

Having children involved in sports of some kind and music is good, but only if the kid has a chance to figure things out on their own. It was a minor thing in an otherwise great upbringing but it still got on my nerves.

I primarily played soccer, baseball and tennis growing up. All by my own choice. The piano sucked ass as my dad regretted not taking lessons himself and was envious of a friend that could play. That's the wrong reason to have your kid do something.

When I was 9 years old, I put a sign up in the front window of our house saying "My parents are forcing me to play the piano". I got out of the lessons that month! Amazingly, when we moved, they tried to make me play again and I had to audition with the teacher. I slammed the keys randomly until the teacher told me to stop and told my parents that she can't teach a child that doesn't want to be taught. That was the end of it finally. Traumatized I tell you! To this day, hearing the "Piano Man" makes me want to punch someone!

laneela wrote:I also feel that children shouldn't be forced into continuing with any activitity (be it music, art, sports, whatever) that they're obviously not interested in once adequate amount of time has passed and you know it's not your child being stubborn and not wanting to give it some time to grow on them.

I WIN.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » August 17, 2006, 7:15 pm

That guy just looks...eww.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » August 17, 2006, 7:27 pm

Kaldaur wrote:That guy just looks...eww.

/agree

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 17, 2006, 8:09 pm

He admitted to drugging her and raping her but the toxicology on her body said there were no drugs in her system.

a statistical majority of sex crimes and murders on little girls are propagated by a family member.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 17, 2006, 8:31 pm

His ex-wife is also stating that he was with her that entire Christmas season...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2006, 8:39 pm

He does kind of look like Lee Harvey Oswald. Same head size.

patsy?

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » August 18, 2006, 1:37 am

He wears his pants WAY too high... damn dude...

I truly get the feeling he didn't do it... he had been communicating with people inside for months, could have picked up a peice of info here or there, his exwife said he was obsessed about this case... looks like a freak to me anyway...

Oh and I'm sorry but entering your daughter in serious pagents at 5 is fuckin' freako IMHO. And YES it is definitely different than music, gymanstics, sports, swimming etc... While WE all know as adults that often, and many times regretably, people are judged purely on their looks, which truly holds no value except to the judge observer, then I believe we are doing that child an injustice.

Now if it was the local school talent show pagent etc... sure no big deal no harm no foul as it's not as much of a pagent as it is a fund raiser and talent show... I will so though that I have no doubt that it's entirely possible that JB only competed in a few and wanted to, hey if they want to and you can tell them it's only for fun and focus it away from the "purely judged on looks" then maybe it's not so bad.

However EVERYONE I have met, grew up with etc... who had been entered in those as a child was a freak and always obsessed about the wrong things... but that's just my experience, anyone else know people that did those? I only knew 3 girls that did but their mom's flew them all over the place etc... and dressed them up just like JB, at least for them it wasn't their "thing" when they were little, it was there mom's who wasn't a beauty queen any longer and so desperately wanted to be... eventually every time they were the most beautiful, which some really cute kids aren't when they grow up, they were devistated... Why would you do that do your child when in regards to having a successful life, it's not the be all end all... important, in many cases yes, looks are important, but even ugly people can dress properly and look respectable to get a job... and most of the time find another ugly person to marry...

Marb

miir · Post by **miir** » August 18, 2006, 10:47 am

This thread should be retitled : Man gets his 15 minutes

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 18, 2006, 11:11 am

miir wrote:This thread should be retitled : Man gets his 15 minutes

Point to me, I think!

Wiever · Post by **Wiever** » August 18, 2006, 4:33 pm

Marbus wrote:He wears his pants WAY too high... damn dude...

I'm digging the whole no belt with a tucked in shirt thing.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » August 20, 2006, 2:05 am

They don't let prisoners wear belts

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 20, 2006, 7:22 am

Those child beauty pageants are magnets for pervs and pedophiles. The parents are still assholes for entering her into those whether they murdered her or not.

I don't think 'high trousered looking pedo' killed her though, although he could do with being imprisoned all the same for being a sick fantasist begging for a bit of infamy.

Al · Post by Al » August 20, 2006, 7:27 am

Nick wrote:Those child beauty pageants are magnets for pervs and pedophiles. Assuming it wasn't one of the parents who killed her, they are still assholes for entering her into those.

I agree. I'm not a fan of popularity contests in any respect, let alone those involving the undeveloped minds of young kids.

Tangurena · Post by **Tangurena** » August 22, 2006, 1:29 am

Over the last 10 years those people were so vilified by the press/tabloids, it's kind of sickening.

About one year before this happened, Susan Smith was convicted of driving her boys into a lake. Just like these folks, Smith tried to blame what happened on someone else, only Smith claimed it was some black man that carjacked her and her boys. The "ransom" note was written with materials around the house, which is part of what led folks to believe the parents did it. And I'm still not convinced this guy really did it. My suspicion is that he claimed to do it to get out of (something more serious in) Thailand, and after all is said and done, he's going to be walking away from all this.

And the Susan Smith incident reminded a lot of people of when Charles Stuart murdered his wife, shot himself, threw the gun off the bridge and claimed some black man did it. As a result there were massive sweeps and arrests of black men in Boston. Even after Stuart finally killed himself, folks believed that the police drove him to do it.

laneela · Post by **laneela** » August 22, 2006, 8:31 am

Tangurena wrote:
Over the last 10 years those people were so vilified by the press/tabloids, it's kind of sickening.
About one year before this happened, Susan Smith was convicted of driving her boys into a lake. Just like these folks, Smith tried to blame what happened on someone else, only Smith claimed it was some black man that carjacked her and her boys. The "ransom" note was written with materials around the house, which is part of what led folks to believe the parents did it. And I'm still not convinced this guy really did it. My suspicion is that he claimed to do it to get out of (something more serious in) Thailand, and after all is said and done, he's going to be walking away from all this.

And the Susan Smith incident reminded a lot of people of when Charles Stuart murdered his wife, shot himself, threw the gun off the bridge and claimed some black man did it. As a result there were massive sweeps and arrests of black men in Boston. Even after Stuart finally killed himself, folks believed that the police drove him to do it.

Those incidents remind me of one incident that happened in 2001 when Linda Stotch drives her son into a river and then tried to kill herself after finding out that her husband was going to gay movie theaters and bath houses. She later claimed that some puerto ricans kidnapped her son. Luckily, in this incident everything turned out ok and everyone had a nice dinner at Bennigans.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 22, 2006, 10:40 am

laneela wrote:
Tangurena wrote:
Over the last 10 years those people were so vilified by the press/tabloids, it's kind of sickening.
About one year before this happened, Susan Smith was convicted of driving her boys into a lake. Just like these folks, Smith tried to blame what happened on someone else, only Smith claimed it was some black man that carjacked her and her boys. The "ransom" note was written with materials around the house, which is part of what led folks to believe the parents did it. And I'm still not convinced this guy really did it. My suspicion is that he claimed to do it to get out of (something more serious in) Thailand, and after all is said and done, he's going to be walking away from all this.

And the Susan Smith incident reminded a lot of people of when Charles Stuart murdered his wife, shot himself, threw the gun off the bridge and claimed some black man did it. As a result there were massive sweeps and arrests of black men in Boston. Even after Stuart finally killed himself, folks believed that the police drove him to do it.
Those incidents remind me of one incident that happened in 2001 when Linda Stotch drives her son into a river and then tried to kill herself after finding out that her husband was going to gay movie theaters and bath houses. She later claimed that some puerto ricans kidnapped her son. Luckily, in this incident everything turned out ok and everyone had a nice dinner at Bennigans.

ROFL.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 22, 2006, 11:56 am

Tangurena wrote:
Over the last 10 years those people were so vilified by the press/tabloids, it's kind of sickening.
About one year before this happened, Susan Smith was convicted of driving her boys into a lake. Just like these folks, Smith tried to blame what happened on someone else, only Smith claimed it was some black man that carjacked her and her boys. The "ransom" note was written with materials around the house, which is part of what led folks to believe the parents did it. And I'm still not convinced this guy really did it. My suspicion is that he claimed to do it to get out of (something more serious in) Thailand, and after all is said and done, he's going to be walking away from all this.

And the Susan Smith incident reminded a lot of people of when Charles Stuart murdered his wife, shot himself, threw the gun off the bridge and claimed some black man did it. As a result there were massive sweeps and arrests of black men in Boston. Even after Stuart finally killed himself, folks believed that the police drove him to do it.

So is your point then that the media should be the judge and jury? Forgive me if I'm naive, I was too young in the 80s to pay close attention to the news, but it seems to me that the media is in a state right now where there is less unbiased reporting and more sensationalism and agenda-pushing, and my assertion is that it's been an upward trend over the last 15 or 20 years that the JonBenet Ramsey story was both a victim of and a catalyst for.

I'm also not sure what the cases you mention had to do with the Ramsey case, as I don't really recall them saying a black guy did it. I do recall them saying "we didn't do it", but that's not exactly the same thing in my opinion.

Tangurena · Post by **Tangurena** » August 23, 2006, 9:52 pm

When Susan Smith claimed that her boys were missing, the media jumped up and down and went out of their way to tell the story that Susan wanted told and the way that Susan wanted it told.

I remember being on mailing lists back when her car "went missing" and I'd get at least 20 emails per day telling me to be on the lookout for a white mazda, with the license plate info, and that there were 2 boys in the back seat and that some black man carjacked it. I remember when every news cast had a segment on her boys (just like the "blonde in Aruba, still missing!" segments) and with a taped bit where she pleaded for the carjacker to return her boys.

She lied to the country, we fell for it. And when she was uncovered as the actual murderer of her 2 sons, we felt betrayed. So when JonBenet was found dead, and her parents did the same play for public sympathy that Susan Smith did, their play for sympathy and attention fell into that same pit of betrayal that people still felt about Susan Smith. The media didn't portray the Ramseys as anything that the American public didn't feel.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » August 24, 2006, 11:03 am

When I was a kid (80s) there was a similar case to Susan Smith in Denver where the mother clamed that someone kidnapped her retarded daughter from a grocery store parking lot. After about a month they fessed up to the fact that the girl had died from an accidental scalding in a bathtub. The mother was afraid to report the truth because she didn't want to lose her other kids. My family lived in the same building in the projects with that family. Was kind of creepy. My mom was good friends with her.

I have been following the Karr case and I don't think he did it with the information I know now. There was DNA evidence at the scene so I guess that will have to prove it or not. He was a known pedophile though and I think he needs to be locked up with a bunch of big burly gentlemen.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 28, 2006, 6:14 pm

DNA doesn't match:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/28/ramse ... index.html

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 28, 2006, 6:57 pm

Shocking.

He's probably going to sue the fuck out of Colorado and every news channel and tabloid on the planet and live out the rest of his days in some pedophilic paradise in Thailand.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 28, 2006, 7:02 pm

Actually I'm almost fully certain he pulled this shit to avoid going to a Thai prison for something serious and get away with a comparative slap on the wrist obstruction of justice charge in America.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 28, 2006, 7:10 pm

who hijacked stragi's account

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 28, 2006, 7:11 pm

kyoukan wrote:who hijacked stragi's account

I post my quota of stupid shit on another messageboard now I guess.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 28, 2006, 9:15 pm

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 28, 2006, 10:48 pm

heh

So, anyone care to ponder or has foudn an article listing all the stuff they should bloody well charge him with?

Imagine the two or three people on the planet who knew that little girl and deeply mourned a personal loss and had it all dragged back up, at the least he deserves an assault charge.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 29, 2006, 1:03 pm

miir wrote:This thread should be retitled : Man gets his 15 minutes

His 15 minutes are up.

Next!!

miir · Post by **miir** » August 29, 2006, 1:09 pm

Imagine the two or three people on the planet who knew that little girl and deeply mourned a personal loss and had it all dragged back up, at the least he deserves an assault charge.

Who cares.
There's tons of shit that happens every hour of every day everywhere on that planet that's way fucking worse than the media circus surrounding this idiot.