VeeshanVault

I almost escaped.

But tonight my roommate's itunes random'd over the Orchestrated EverQuest theme, I think probably ripped right from EQ2.

Daaa daaa daaa DAAAAA, da-da-daaa daaa...

And I suddenly knew how a recovering alcoholic feels.

I have never played EQ2, but it's all I can do to keep from running to EB to try it right now. I know this is like the boozer looking to a bar for support, but I think the only thing that's going to change my mind is testamonials from people who've played it that it's an abortion of a game, or, at least, that it's too late to start getting into it now.

Help me VeeshanVault Kenobi.. you're my only hope

It's the same shit but worse.

Best I can do for you. If you end up playing it, it won't be my fault.

If you don't have good friends to play with, you'll probably give it a week or two before you're thinking "wtf am I doing?". If you have people to play with, I imagine it can be a little more enthralling.

I disagree - but many peeps do here on the boards.

EQ2 is the most fun i've had in a couple years now in any MMO.

Granted, I wasn't there for the beginning when it first launched and the bugs / issues it had then - but as of now I think it's a great game.

EQ2 > WoW

Wii lovers probably like WoW as well. The graphics are on the same level of crappiness but without the fun.

As for gameplay, EQii was pretty fun in beta at least. With the changes, I'm sure it's worth playing over the Blizzard MMORPG.

SL > EQii > WoW

Winnow wrote:SL > EQii > WoW

Where does Vanguard fit i?

The real equation is:

WoW>EQ2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vanguard

Since the release of both games I've played EQ2->WoW->EQ2->WoW with a couple of other things thrown in like DDO and COV.

In the end WoW won. And anyone who thinks EQ2s graphics are better than WoW's has the aesthetic sensibilities of a stoat.

vn_Tanc wrote: In the end WoW won. And anyone who thinks EQ2s graphics are better than WoW's has the aesthetic sensibilities of a stoat.

I suppose WoW graphics would look good if you had walleyed vision.

vn_Tanc wrote:And anyone who thinks EQ2s graphics are better than WoW's has the aesthetic sensibilities of a stoat.

You're talking about the visual style which is purely subjective. Some people prefer the style of EQ2 some prefer WoW and others will prefer some other game like COH or even FFIX/Lineage2.

Technically speaking, the graphics engine in EQ2 is vastly superior to WoW in every way possible. Light sourcing, textures, shadows and poly count are all areas where EQ2 blows WoW out of the water. Bloom, water effects, heat distortion and and numerous other visual effects are either absent or poorly implemented in WoW. Hell, WoW's engine doesn't even do basic shadows and the FSAA implementation is half assed.

WoW has more in common with EQ1 in terms of graphics.


One thing WoW did do really well is character animations. You can almost forgive the blocky, exaggerated character models when you see them in full motion.

The main advantge of thier simplistic graphics is that the engine is not required to render a large number of polys and largen complex textures which means you can run it on a shitty machine and areas with a large number of players (like on raids) will have a smaller framerate hit.

Technical specs are just as subjective as a given style, you know. I hate the idea of dropping frames so my character can have extra-round toes or a shadow.

Funkmasterr is funny, comparing games that have been out for a year and a half to a game that has 9 months in beta still.

Who writes your jokes?

I'll probably end up trying it anyway, but thanks guys =) Kinda comforting to know that without RL friends playing, I'm not likely to be sucked in for toooo long.

Mr Bacon wrote:Funkmasterr is funny, comparing games that have been out for a year and a half to a game that has 9 months in beta still.

Who writes your jokes?

He bit on Miir's bait.

Mr Bacon wrote:Funkmasterr is funny, comparing games that have been out for a year and a half to a game that has 9 months in beta still.

Who writes your jokes?

Coming from the guy that just faulted me for my sense of humor a few hours ago..

cadalano wrote:Technical specs are just as subjective as a given style, you know. I hate the idea of dropping frames so my character can have extra-round toes or a shadow.

Do you even know what the word subjective means?

Eh, just wait. LU24 gets published June 14 and it's making a lot more changes.

miir wrote:

vn_Tanc wrote:And anyone who thinks EQ2s graphics are better than WoW's has the aesthetic sensibilities of a stoat.

You're talking about the visual style which is purely subjective. Some people prefer the style of EQ2 some prefer WoW and others will prefer some other game like COH or even FFIX/Lineage2.

Technically speaking, the graphics engine in EQ2 is vastly superior to WoW in every way possible. Light sourcing, textures, shadows and poly count are all areas where EQ2 blows WoW out of the water. Bloom, water effects, heat distortion and and numerous other visual effects are either absent or poorly implemented in WoW. Hell, WoW's engine doesn't even do basic shadows and the FSAA implementation is half assed.

WoW has more in common with EQ1 in terms of graphics.


One thing WoW did do really well is character animations. You can almost forgive the blocky, exaggerated character models when you see them in full motion.

The main advantge of thier simplistic graphics is that the engine is not required to render a large number of polys and largen complex textures which means you can run it on a shitty machine and areas with a large number of players (like on raids) will have a smaller framerate hit.

Yeah I was trolling somewhat. There's no doubt the EQ2 engine has more features. Too many, some might say.
But the WoW engine isn't as simple as people pretend - it uses vertex anims, bloom, specular etc. I just think the WoW team uses the tools at its disposal far better than the EQ2 approach of chucking every effect possible on every item possible and hoping for the best. I think WoW makes better use of texturing, lighting and animation than EQ2 and it's particles are fantastic.
I can understand people preferring the more naturalistic approach of EQ2 but I think the execution thereof is utterly lacking in every respect other than some geography, which is generally very very nice.

miir wrote:

cadalano wrote:The importance of technical specs are just as subjective as a given style, you know. I hate the idea of dropping frames so my character can have extra-round toes or a shadow.

Do you even know what the word subjective means?

oh, fanboy, fanboy.

But the WoW engine isn't as simple as people pretend - it uses vertex anims, bloom, specular etc.

Their 'full screen glow' is so poorly implemented they don't even call it by the proper name. Their vertex animaiton and spec ular surfaces are rudimentary at best.

I just think the WoW team uses the tools at its disposal far better than the EQ2 approach of chucking every effect possible on every item possible and hoping for the best.

What the fuck are you talking about?
Give an example where they checked every effect possible on even one single item. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I think WoW makes better use of texturing, lighting and animation than EQ2 and it's particles are fantastic.

Once again, you're talking about a subjective opinion.
That's about as retarded as arguing pie vs cake.





Oh wait.. you think WoW has better lighting? ROFL, are you fucking half blind? Lighting invoves shadows which WoW's engine cannot even render. They had to paint the fucking shadows on the landscape textures. That's almost as ridiculous as painting flames on a pickup truck....



Trying to compare the merits of the graphic engines of EQ2 and WoW would be like comparing a Carrera GT to a Ferrari Enzo with a Civic engine wedged in the engine compartment. The Enzo looks fantastic but put it on the road and there is nothing to back up it's good looks.

Well I was trying to keep it civil, but what the fuck ever.

Their 'full screen glow' is so poorly implemented they don't even call it by the proper name. Their vertex animaiton and spec ular surfaces are rudimentary at best.

The specular mapping is no more rudimentary than EQs. Full screen glow is full screen glow, as well. I won't argue vertex anims as I don't think I ever ran them when playing EQ2.
Just because the EQ2 engine gives you 6 sliders to tinker with this crap doesn't make it any 'better'.

What the fuck are you talking about?
Give an example where they checked every effect possible on even one single item. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Chuck = slang for "throw". Not check. If you switch on specular in EQ2 every single item in the game turns into shiny plastic, even furry animals. This isn't clever; it's shit.

Quote:
I think WoW makes better use of texturing, lighting and animation than EQ2 and it's particles are fantastic.


Once again, you're talking about a subjective opinion.
That's about as retarded as arguing pie vs cake.

The clue would be where I use the words "I think", wouldn't it? But please try taking your fanboy goggles off for 5 minutes and you might see what I mean. With lower resolution textures but better artists, Blizzard create an atmosphere that pounds EQ2 in the arse. They have dynamic lighting that everyone can see - you're fucked in EQ2 cos 90% of people have to clamp it to 2 lights to avoid powerpoint mode. And WoW does more with simple, yet cleverly built 4-bit animated texture particles than EQ2 manages with 4x the horsepower requirement.

Oh wait.. you think WoW has better lighting? ROFL, are you fucking half blind? Lighting invoves shadows which WoW's engine cannot even render. They had to paint the fucking shadows on the landscape textures. That's almost as ridiculous as painting flames on a pickup truck....

Erm, WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource. And anyway your premise if fucked - shadowing and lighting are different sides of the same coin. Or will you refuse to concede that if for example 2 games have no shadows at all, its not possible for one to be better lit than the other?

Trying to compare the merits of the graphic engines of EQ2 and WoW would be like comparing a Carrera GT to a Ferrari Enzo with a Civic engine wedged in the engine compartment. The Enzo looks fantastic but put it on the road and there is nothing to back up it's good looks

You make the mistake of assuming the graphics of EQ2 are good. They really aren't. Technically accomplished yes, but disjointed, poorly animated, and utterly lacking in a coherent style.
You're making another mistake of assuming I'm arguing the relative merits of the engines when I make it quite clear that I'm not at the very outset. The WoW artists made vastly better use of the tools at their disposal than the SOE team though. And the decision to base WoW on rendering technology a 3yr old machine could handle was very shrewd.

All this and I haven't even touched on how much more fun WoW is than EQ2.

WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource

I could pick apart the rest of your post but this is the most hillarious point.

miir wrote:

WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource

I could pick apart the rest of your post but this is the most hillarious point.

Actually, it does have some dynamic shadows in addition to the baked in shadows, but you won't see them on the terrain, it's on the creature/player models.

Isn't this horse dead yet? Some people will take realism over style, others will take style over realism. If you want to get a good argument going, take a poll of what people in artistic professions prefer over those that aren't. That'd be a more telling comparison.

That would still be subjective.


I'll give WoW credit where it deserves it. They were aiming for a specific style and they nailed it. The character animations are excellent and what they managed to do with a limited and feature-poor graphics engine is admirable.


But the technical merits of EQ2s engine can't be ignored. In it's full glory, with everything on, EQ2 looks very impressive.


With everything on in WoW, it looks... well.. the same... well, it actually looks worse with some turned on... specifically their full screen glow. It's migraine inducing.




I often just stop and look at the environments of EQ2 and think... damn, this looks good. I rarely got that feeling with WoW.
Shadows, rain slicked surfaces and other features of the engine really add to the immersiveness.

Isn't this horse dead yet?

If it weren't for beating dead horses, VV would be pretty boring.

miir wrote:

WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource

I could pick apart the rest of your post but this is the most hillarious point.

Laugh all you like it's a fucking fact.

As bad EQ models might look with their clay hair, WoW models are incredibly bad.

What Miir say is true. EQii beats the crap out of WoW technically for graphics. WoW is a joke in that department and is like Wii is to the 360 and PS3 (without the gay controller). I'm not all that impressed with EQii models but the rest of the world is well done while both models and world suck ass in WoW (subjectively speaking but I don't think you even need to be subjective to see how bad those WoW character models are!).

Second Life just added more lighting features and flexible objects to the game. It continues to advance faster than both of the above games in creativity, weekly worthwhile patches and 100,000 people creating new content for the game each month.

Just because they use the most current technologies and can make a high end video card work hard, doesn't necessarily mean EQ2's graphics this great thing you are making them out to be, Miir.

I personally think they are extremely bland. And to be honest, I don't really care if I can see shadows, and water building up, and so on, because eq2's environment, and especially the character models/armor are boring as shit.

And I played eq2 for like 4 months before I started playing wow, and have played it again since, so i'm not talking out of my ass.

vn_Tanc wrote:

miir wrote:

WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource

I could pick apart the rest of your post but this is the most hillarious point.

Laugh all you like it's a fucking fact.

Punctuation?

Funkmasterr wrote:Just because they use the most current technologies and can make a high end video card work hard, doesn't necessarily mean EQ2's graphics this great thing you are making them out to be, Miir.

I personally think they are extremely bland. And to be honest, I don't really care if I can see shadows, and water building up, and so on, because eq2's environment, and especially the character models/armor are boring as shit.

And I played eq2 for like 4 months before I started playing wow, and have played it again since, so i'm not talking out of my ass.

Congrats you for missing the point entirely.

I don't feel that I missed the point.

You argument is that its a matter of opinion, as I stated, in my opinion the graphics in EQ2 suck... You can throw all the fancy shading and shadows and all that shit that eq2 has and the graphics still suck.. 99% of the armor and shit all looks bland, and looks the same. At least in WoW even if some of the armor is goofy looking, it has some style to it, and the shit doesnt all look the same.

Saying EQ2 is technically better than WoW doesn't mean a thing really.

Technically your grandmother should give better head because she can take her teeth out first, but does that mean I'll enjoy it more than from the keen 17 year old amateur with braces and a slight overbite? Unlikely.

Personally, I think both look good, and neither are what I would call "immersive".

Canoe wrote:I disagree - but many peeps do here on the boards.

EQ2 is the most fun i've had in a couple years now in any MMO.

Granted, I wasn't there for the beginning when it first launched and the bugs / issues it had then - but as of now I think it's a great game.

Ditto.

I played WoW for the first year, then got bored. Picked up EQ2 in January and I'm having a ton of fun.

miir wrote:

vn_Tanc wrote:

miir wrote:

WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource

I could pick apart the rest of your post but this is the most hillarious point.

Laugh all you like it's a fucking fact.

Punctuation?

Resorting to a grammar flame is equivalent to admitting defeat! \o/

vn_Tanc wrote:

miir wrote:

vn_Tanc wrote:

miir wrote:

WoW has dynamic shadows that move with the world lightsource

I could pick apart the rest of your post but this is the most hillarious point.

Laugh all you like it's a fucking fact.

Punctuation?

Resorting to a grammar flame is equivalent to admitting defeat! \o/

That was a flame?

Wow looks great compared to EQ2.

WoW looks like ass. It's an embarrassment to my MEGAHURTZ.

Regardless of personal opinion, EQ2 has a higher polygon count than WoW.

Both are two dimensional if you close one eye while playing.

I happen to be playtng with my One Eye right now.

Bastards. "The first one's free" is the dealer's ultimate weapon! I'm downloading the free 7 day trial.

Is anyone still playing? Last i heard some guys are on Lucin?

Luclin = EverQuest 1

No idea where EQ2 people play or even what the server names are.

Me, Seeber, Neost, Nos, Lee and a host of others are on LucanDLere in the resurrected Fluffy Bunnies Guild Level 45 as of this week, yes, we can wear slut clothes!

Marb

Count me in for Lucan then, haha. At least for the trial period. And probably after that too, but we shall see.

I'll be Niffoni or Siln, I imagine!

Celestial Tomb is on Guk.

We have around 30 members now, 80% of them old CT or Veeshan people. If you are gonna play EQ2 then come here, we just started a month ago, so most are new to the game entirely.

If you want to transfer to Guk from another server thats an option too. Most of our people are in the level 30-45 range. Taking it slow and enjoyin the content!

Fucking spammer.

At least 3 very tempting suggestions. In the end, I went with Permafrost as Niffoni, at least for now, as it has a few old guildies.

I purchased the game electronically, as the stores here no longer carry EQ2, so no instructions. Stumbling around Norrath in my mid-to-late teens atm, look me up if you're on Perma.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. To think this all happened because i had to hear the first 4 bars of the EQ theme.

Zaelath wrote:Technically your grandmother should give better head because she can take her teeth out first, but does that mean I'll enjoy it more than from the keen 17 year old amateur with braces and a slight overbite? Unlikely.

Personally, I think both look good, and neither are what I would call "immersive".

Mmmm.. immersive blowjobs.