VeeshanVault

Here's what we know:



Audio of the play along with comments from Babe Ruth afterwards:

http://www.authentichistory.com/audio/1 ... _Shot.html

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It took Hank Aaron 2500 more at bats to beat Babe's HR record.

Don't forget Babes pitching stats before voting! (and roids!)

I've seen all the footage they have at Cooperstown, and it's hard to believe what happened is anything more than a publicity stunt. He's still the best player that ever lived, though.

No, and Babe Ruth is overrated. Josh Gibson was probably the best baseball player of all time. How can you be the best when you play in an era in which enormous segments of society are restricted from competing with you based on race?

Saying that he's the best player in history is as absurd as it is to say that John Stockton was the best basketball player of the '90s.

You can't compare eras. In almost any sport.

Ruth was the greatest player of his era.

Sueven wrote:No, and Babe Ruth is overrated. Josh Gibson was probably the best baseball player of all time. How can you be the best when you play in an era in which enormous segments of society are restricted from competing with you based on race?

Saying that he's the best player in history is as absurd as it is to say that John Stockton was the best basketball player of the '90s.

Oh don't give me that racial crap. I'm tired of hearing about racial this and that.

When women are allowed to play professional baseball and one becomes the best in some stat are you going to throw out all stats in baseball up until that year? That sir, is absurd.

I say juice everyone up like fucking apes and throw out all stats before roids. It not fair to keep skinny kids down without letting them enhance their abilities to compete.

Whining about something that was beyond a player's control is crazy. Fuck Barry Bonds. He's probably more racist than any of the players back in the 30's. His fucking head is the size of watermelon from all the roids he's pumped into his body. You can go on and on about equal playing fields. Deal with what was available or fill the whole fucking record book full of asteriskes.

Babe was a fat tub of shit and still kicked ass. That's more impressive than a roid boy.

I voted, we'll never know but he's the greatest player of all time. (with no asterisks) I'm not talking about stats. Fuck Barry Bonds. He's shit for baseball. Babe was a fun loving character that people loved to follow because of his personality (good and bad), not because he was some fucking roid pumping, fan hating, uncaring lump of shit.

I didn't say Babe Ruth was racist and I sure as hell didn't say anything about Barry Bonds.

I said that there was a significant portion of the crowd of top-notch baseball players who he did not compete with. The ridiculous accomplishments of Josh Gibson (among others) testifies to the skill and ability of black players at that time. If the leagues were integrated, it's possible that Ruth would not have been as dominant as he was. Of course, it's also possible that if the leagues were integrated, Josh Gibson would not have been as dominant as he was. Because they were not, we will never know, and it therefore seems to me that you can't make a plausible argument that Babe Ruth was the most dominant player of his time when Josh Gibson dominated the black side of baseball equally. At least Barry Bonds can hit a home run off any pitcher in the country, not just the black ones.

And don't give me that bullshit line that gender is comparable to race in this instance. Women are not as good at baseball as men are. That's not sexist, that's a fact. If someday I'm proven wrong and women prove to be the equal of men in baseball ability, then you're damn right that the accomplishments of any man prior to integration would mean less.

Babe wasn't much of a racist, in fact most baseball historians beleive he was part african american, Ty Cobb flat out refused to play with him because he WAS a racist shitbag

No, he was pointing into the Cubs' dugout. They were heckling him in the AB, and he starts jabbing back. When he rounds third, he points in the dugout again.

BTW, we don't know how many HR's Ruth actually hit. At that time, ground-ruled doubles were considered home runs. Just another reason that you cannot compare players from different eras, especially during that time.

BTW, we don't know how many HR's Ruth actually hit. At that time, ground-ruled doubles were considered home runs. Just another reason that you cannot compare players from different eras, especially during that time.

The ground rule double rule change was made the year before he hit 60. Your right though you can't compare guys from differnet era's. Maris and Ruth's records stand out over the steriod induced homerun derby in baseball the last 10 years.

Soooo...

What if a female golfer comes along and wins a PGA trournament? It could happen. Are you, in your tweaked out college essay writing mind, going to wipe out all golf records from the past and say they don't count because females weren't present?

How about women who want to play football but aren't allowed? Who are high schools and colleges to say they aren't skilled enough? They aren't getting their fair chance. They probably said that about blacks too...not as good as us whites!

Say we are finally visited by aliens and one of their females wins Miss Universe...are you going to throw out all of the previous winners? Racist!

Baseball is currently playing out the 2005 World Series. Should we throw all of those out because we failed to invite other countries to the big dance? Ohhh...it's just the name of the championship game...it'a not REALLY a world series....yeah..and National Baseall League is just a name of a league...it wasn't REALLY a National League back then...what's the difference?

In chess, the highest ranked female in the world is ranked 8th with the second highest female chess player ranked 224th in the world...there's nothing physical about chess...are women idiots? Nay. A female currently holds the highest IQ. What kind of biased shit can we throw at chess to discount all the previous records? Is there any more shit that can possibly be thrown on this pile? If you can write a convincing enough research paper that shows women have been held back in the chess world, should we throw out all the previous match champions?

Lunacy! We probably shouldnt keep any records according to you. They'll always be something unfair about them that can be dug up later.

Ted Williams

Winnow, that's a stupid pile of bullshit and you know it. You're insulting yourself by writing it.

I actually started typing out a long response and it made me realize how stupid it would be to fully respond to something that's so obviously designed to make no valid points.

In brief:

Question: Are women as good as men at baseball?
Answer: No.
Therefore: All of your bullshit about gender is meaningless. Yes, if women someday prove to be the equal of men in some arena that is thus far segregated, then it would decrease the meaning of prior accomplishments in that arena. However, we're not talking about some other form of competition, we're talking about baseball.

The fact that baseball is played in the Americas does not do too much to detract from its legitimacy. There is no other baseball league in the world that is comparable to the majors. The top stars from other countries come to play in the major leagues. Certainly it is nationality-biased, but the bias is simply toward those countries that play baseball. It's not like MLB is closed to Ugandans and Poles, it just so happens that not many play baseball.

If there was a Latin American Baseball Major League, and all of the Latin stars currently in MLB played there (Pujols, Guerrero, Rodriguez, Ortiz, Martinez, Jeter, etc) then it would seem a lot more absurd to declare any baseball player the 'greatest in the world' by virtue of their MLB accomplishments, wouldn't it?

If you really don't understand the point I'm trying to make, please ask and I'll clarify, but I think you do get it and you're just being obstinate. You can accuse me of being in 'college-essay writing' mode all you want, but I'm the one making a logical argument and you're the one responding nonsensically by mis-stating my arguments in an attempt to bring them to an absurd conclusion.

PS: I never said anything about 'wiping out records.' I simply spoke about the relative magnitude of accomplishments. Stop putting words into my mouth.

I don't think there's a simple answer. I choose to take the circumstances at the point in time the players were active and judge it from that as opposed to try and judge players outside of their era.

Babe IMO is the "greatest" player of all time because noone comes close to his combination of fan interaction, charisma and performance. Barry Bonds is a stat machine but who really cares? There are popular players but nothing like Babe Ruth.

Twenty years down the road, people will still talk about Babe Ruth's impact on the game and Bonds will just be mentioned for his statistics in the steroid era (just like Babe and the segregated league era).

women can play pro baseball and golf

next troll please

they dont because there are none good enough

I was going to say something like, "who cares about baseball anyhow" but I realize that there is still a large following for the sport. So I won't say that. To be honest I am not well informed on the whole Babe Ruth saga so I chose, "We will never know but he is the greatest that ever lived". I really don't care enough to find out the truth but I do know you have to kick ass to get a candybar so Babe Ruth, Reggie Jackson, and Hank Aaron are the most kick ass baseball players ever.

(I don't care if the bars aren't named after them or not. That is who I think of when I have one.)

Voronwë wrote:women can play pro baseball and golf

Have women always been able to play in the PGA? We're talking back in the 30's...like in the Babe's era. All it takes is one woman to win something like Michelle Wie and you have to go back and question all the records during the time women were oppressed and not given the opportunity men had...just like african americans. Gender oppression...race oppression.

Sure they can play now...and so can african americans..except on a few courses Tiger couldn't get on until recently...the point here is it's a timeline...we don't know what the future holds but my argument is it shouldn't affect the impact of the previous era in question and the player's impact in relation the the circumstances available to them at the time.

hey winnow,

men are faster and stronger than women.


duh

Sueven wrote: If there was a Latin American Baseball Major League, and all of the Latin stars currently in MLB played there (Pujols, Guerrero, Rodriguez, Ortiz, Martinez, Jeter, etc) then it would seem a lot more absurd to declare any baseball player the 'greatest in the world' by virtue of their MLB accomplishments, wouldn't it?.

Jeter isn't latin american.

Voronwë wrote:hey winnow,

men are faster and stronger than women.


duh

If you're going to agrue along those lines...is one race faster and stronger than another?

Winnow wrote:

Voronwë wrote:hey winnow,

men are faster and stronger than women.


duh

If you're going to agrue along those lines...is one race faster and stronger than another?

Not as a whole. There are fast people of race X, and slow people of race X. Race X is neither fast or slow. People need to be considered as individuals.

noel wrote:

Winnow wrote:

Voronwë wrote:hey winnow,

men are faster and stronger than women.


duh

If you're going to agrue along those lines...is one race faster and stronger than another?

Not as a whole. There are fast people of race X, and slow people of race X. Race X is neither fast or slow. People need to be considered as individuals.

Not according to Jimmy the Greek

And as far as greatest ball player of all time Sandy Koufax

Enough said Lock thread

Fuck the White Sox

On average, I would go so far as to say that black men are faster than white men. A lot of that may be that young black men are more active than young white men on average.

Best baseball player in history? Probably Pete Rose. Played nearly every position at an all-star level and had more hits than anyone in the history of the game and played through an era where some of the best pitchers of the last 70 years pitched.

Babe Ruth? Fat guy who could hit mediocre pitching. If you put him on the field in the 80's to today, he would flounder about like a beached whale.

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: Best baseball player in history?

Not the best player, the greatest player! This poll is geared more toward personality of the game as opposed to stats. You have a case with Pete Rose as he was/is charismatic on and off the field.

If I made the poll, Best Fat Player of all time we'd be battling over Ruth and Kirby Puckett.

Winnow wrote:You have a case with Pete Rose as he was/is charismatic on and off the field.

If you're talking about "off the field" as well, I don't see how Pete Rose could come anywhere higher than close to the bottom of the barrel. Gambling, maybe?

According to the latest Budweiser commercial, he was pointing to a Bud man in the stands.

I would define 'Greatest' as 'did more for the game than any other player'.

Jackie Robinson, hands down.

noel wrote:I would define 'Greatest' as 'did more for the game than any other player'.

Jackie Robinson, hands down.

Its not hands down if you would also consider Roberto Clemente if you are thinking along those lines. You can also put Babe Ruth with those two players as well because he single handedly brought back the popularity of baseball when it was near extinction due to the 1919 black sox scandal.

Sueven wrote:No, and Babe Ruth is overrated. Josh Gibson was probably the best baseball player of all time. How can you be the best when you play in an era in which enormous segments of society are restricted from competing with you based on race?

Saying that he's the best player in history is as absurd as it is to say that John Stockton was the best basketball player of the '90s.

*puke*