Jack Thompson

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » October 16, 2005, 9:07 am

I didn't see any posts about this story, so I figured I'd start one. I don't know if anyone here has been following on the story of Jack Thompson and this proposal he has made of offering $10k to charity if a gaming company will make a video game of his specifications.

Here's the proposal:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The Golden Rule

This writer has been saying for seven years that violent video games can be "murder simulators" that incite as well as train some obsessive teen players to be violent.

I've been on 60 Minutes and in Reader's Digest this year explaining how an Alabama teen, with no criminal record, shot two policemen and a dispatcher in their heads and fled in a police car--a scenario he rehearsed for hundreds of hours on Take-Two/Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto video games.

I have sat with boys in jail cells, their lives over because of murder convictions, after they, with no history of violence, have killed innocents while in a dreamlike state. Said one cop who investigated such a murder in Grand Rapids, Michigan: "The killing was like an extension of the game."

The video game industry, through its lawyers, its spokesmen, and its head lobbyist, Doug Lowenstein, the president of the Entertainment Software Association, all say it is utter nonsense to suggest that what is dumped into a kid's head hour after hour, day after day, year after year, could possibly have behavioral consequences. Cigarette ads can persuade kids to smoke, but interactive simulators in which these same kids punch, hack, bludgeon, and maim affect not a wit their attitudes and behaviors, notwithstanding the findings of the American Psychological Association, published in August 2005.

The video game industry says Sticks and stones can break my bones, but games can never hurt me. Fine. I have a modest proposal for the video game industry. I'll write a check for $10,000 to the favorite charity of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc's chairman, Paul Eibeler - a man Bernard Goldberg ranks as #43 in his book 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America - if any video game company will create, manufacture, distribute, and sell a video game in 2006 like the following:

Osaki Kim is the father of a high school boy beaten to death with a baseball bat by a 14-year-old gamer. The killer obsessively played a violent video game in which one of the favored ways of killing is with a bat. The opening scene, before the interactive game play begins, is the Los Angeles courtroom in which the killer is sentenced "only" to life in prison after the judge and the jury have heard experts explain the connection between the game and the murder.

Osaki Kim (O.K.) exits the courtroom swearing revenge upon the video game industry whom he is convinced contributed to his son's murder. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" he says. And boy, is O.K. not kidding.

O.K. is provided in his virtual reality playpen a panoply of weapons: machetes, Uzis, revolvers, shotguns, sniper rifles, Molotov cocktails, you name it. Even baseball bats. Especially baseball bats.

O.K. first hops a plane from LAX to New York to reach the Long Island home of the CEO of the company (Take This) that made the murder simulator on which his son's killer trained. O.K. gets "justice" by taking out this female CEO, whose name is Paula Eibel, along with her husband and kids. "An eye for an eye," says O.K., as he urinates onto the severed brain stems of the Eibel family victims, just as you do on the decapitated cops in the real video game Postal2.

O.K. then works his way, methodically back to LA by car, but on his way makes a stop at the Philadelphia law firm of Blank, Stare and goes floor by floor to wipe out the lawyers who protect Take This in its wrongful death law suits. "So sue me" O.K. spits, with singer Jackson Brown's 1980's hit Lawyers in Love blaring.

With the FBI now after him, O.K. keeps moving westward, shooting up high-tech video arcades called GameWerks. "Game over," O.K. laughs.

Of course, O.K. makes the obligatory runs to virtual versions of brick and mortar retailers Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and Wal-Mart to steal supplies and bludgeon store managers and cash register clerks. "You should have checked kids' IDs!"

O.K. pushes on to Los Angeles. He must get there by May 10, 2006. That is the beginning of "E3" -- the Electronic Entertainment Expo -- the Super Bowl of the video game industry. O.K. must get to E3 to massacre all the video game industry execs with one final, monstrously delicious rampage.

How about it, video game industry? I've got the check and you've got the tech. It's all a fantasy, right? No harm can come from such a game, right? Go ahead, video game moguls. Target yourselves as you target others. I dare you.

Jack Thompson is a Miami lawyer who has for 18 years been involved in efforts to stop the marketing of adult entertainment to minors.

After reading that proposal, I am convinced that this guy is a total fucking nutjob. I can really see this guy as one who doesn't blame parents for bad upbringing, and says video games are the downfall of the next generation.

What got my attention to this was an article from Penny Arcade about their reaction to the proposal and apparently Thompson's rebuttal (making threats and screaming at Gabe on the phone). Tycho put it best when he says:

He's essentially holding money hostage from charity, and if someone did make it, even as a joke, he would say that it didn't conform to his "design." This sort of thing is usually called a shell-game.

Source #1: http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883

Source #2: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12259

Thoughts?

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » October 16, 2005, 10:39 am

Hopefully this fucking crazy bastard will never enter the U.K or I may be forced to kill him, since its an extension of the video games I play...

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » October 16, 2005, 11:15 am

The game seems kinda linear.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » October 16, 2005, 1:48 pm

Well, considering that he was the guy that actually called FBI and tried to get some people arrested for deaths threaths after they made an animated icon of him getting hit by a ball on a chain, i think he should be sued for those death threaths.

Edit, after reading the Penny Arcade story about it, i dont think he should be sued, he should be locked up someplace. I mean, i heard and seen some of his reply emails and phone calls before, but the man is batshit insane.
How ANY politician can even consider associating wiht this guy is beyond me.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 16, 2005, 3:49 pm

I think this comic says it better than anything else.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=arc ... 2005-10-12 (work safe other than being a webcomic)

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 17, 2005, 12:09 pm

In a way I kind of agree with him. If you have a kid who does nothing all day but play video games that are violent some will take it to the real world. Granted that is a small percentage but even still the numbers are alarming enough that there could be many murders as a result. Most laws are in place to protect the many from the few. I don't see how this is much different. People can go on and on about Good Parenting and Bad Parenting but I believe it is much harder than most people think. Even good kids go bad.

I don't know if what he proposes is the right thing. It did get attention and it did make folks think. What if the targets in the game were game makers and not cops? If you truly believe that violent games don't have an effect then what is the big deal? Just another game where you go out and kill shit just like the games we all play already. However, if you believe that the game has an effect on people then we can look forward to dead ceo's of game companies? No great loss there is it because all they are are Office folk who don't actually create the games.

Maybe we do need to restrict these games a bit more. Look at how much we bitch when playing WoW or EQ2 about the kids playing the game. Do you really want to put ideas in their heads? At least in the MMO's we are killing creatures and not Cops. Why not restrict games like Grand Theft Auto to 18 and older? Yeah I know it won't stop them from playing or obtaining a copy but it will be something done in the right direction.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 17, 2005, 12:28 pm

At least in the MMO's we are killing creatures and not Cops.

Aside from GTA and Postal2, I can't think of any games where killing cops is part of the game. The percentage of games where killing cops is an option has gotta be well below 0.01%.

Why not restrict games like Grand Theft Auto to 18 and older?

Uh, it already is.
It was originally released with a M (Mature 17+)rating but the sexual content in the Hot Coffee mod pushed it to an A (Adults Only 18+) ESRB rating.
Stores caught selling M and A games to minors are subject to some hefty fines... and they are enforcing it. I've personally seen games stores refuse to sell M games to kids because they didn't have ID.
I've also seen a parent refuse to buy GTA:SA for her son after the clerk advised her about the content of the game. Conversely I've seen parents buy the game for their 12 year old kid even after being told about the content.

Again it comes down to good/bad parenting.
Would a good parent willingly let their 14 year old watch hardcore porn?
Would a good parent buy thier 14 year old Postal 2 or GTA?

In a way I kind of agree with him. If you have a kid who does nothing all day but play video games that are violent some will take it to the real world... People can go on and on about Good Parenting and Bad Parenting but I believe it is much harder than most people think. Even good kids go bad.

Nobody is implying that parenting is easy... but if you encourage your children to play violent and anti-social games like the ones mentioned, you're facilitating potential sociopathic behaviour.
The ESRB and game retailers are doing thier part to monitor and restrict the distribution of these games to minors. The onus rests squarely on the shoulders of the parents.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 17, 2005, 12:49 pm

I think it has become way to easy to blame the parents. Especially by people who aren't parents. Not pointing at anyone as doing such but in a general term.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 17, 2005, 1:23 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:I think it has become way to easy to blame the parents. Especially by people who aren't parents. Not pointing at anyone as doing such but in a general term.

Well then who the hell is to blame if these parents are willingly buying their children these games and not monitoring their computer use?

If a kid looks at porn on the internet, do you blame the porn sites or do you blame the parent for not censoring thier children's internet usage?
Do you blame the retailers and porn industry if a parent goes to a shop and buys their kid a bunch of pornos and let's them watch it for hours at a time?
What about booze? Would a good parent buy thier 14 year old kid a bottle of jack and let them get drunk with their friends?

The ESRB is doing their job.
The game retailers are doing thier job.
Parents need to start doing thier fucking job and being accountable.

If you are facilitating your child's access to M and A rated games, you're a bad fucking parent. Period.

Pressuring the game industry to not make adult/mature themed games is not going to make shitty parents better parents.

--------------------

Maybe they should just use the same laws for parents that they use for game/video retailers. If they let thier kids play M/A rated games, fine them or throw em in jail.

What's the difference between that and a parent who provides or facilitates the use of booze, drugs or porn for a minor?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 17, 2005, 2:02 pm

My nephew has played all the GTA games, and he's 14. He's a well adjusted young man, and I've been gaming with him since he was old enough to hold the stick.

In short, I think it depends on the kid. I would have NEVER exposed his older brother to games like this, because that kid is strung way more tightly, and isn't as grounded.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 17, 2005, 2:12 pm

I agree. If a parent is buying these things for their kids then yes they are bad parents. Now what if you are a parent who isn't buying these things for their kids and yet they are still exposed to them. Does this make them bad parents too?

I don't have a cure for the problems with industry. You ask who is to blame if not the parents? How about society as a whole? I know this is opening a whole new discussion and it is mostly idealism and will never happen in our lifetime but what if this kind of stuff were no longer available? Has our society become that decadent? (I know this doesn't carry much weight considering my rep on the boards for loving the porn)

So to end the argument, I agree that there is no cure and that bad parents buy bad things for their kids.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 17, 2005, 4:13 pm

I still think there is more that goes into the making of a psychopath than just violent TV and video games. Weren't there murders and shit like that before computers even existed? Jack the Ripper or something?

All this bullshit is just a symptom of the bigger problem: lack of personal responsiblity. It can't be MY fault that Junior is all fucked up! I never even talk to him! It's must have been those bad video games, or the negro music!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 17, 2005, 7:19 pm

masteen wrote:I still think there is more that goes into the making of a psychopath than just violent TV and video games. Weren't there murders and shit like that before computers even existed? Jack the Ripper or something?

All this bullshit is just a symptom of the bigger problem: lack of personal responsiblity. It can't be MY fault that Junior is all fucked up! I never even talk to him! It's must have been those bad video games, or the negro music!

It was comics and rock music!

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » October 18, 2005, 6:09 am

Hehe, more fun updates on the Jack Thompson case.

He receded his 10K$ to charity offer after some guys made a GTA mod where you control him killing people.
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000743063662/

He claim it his offer was satire, and have now withdrawn his offer, after the mod came out: http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepo ... 07741.html

And best of all, since hes appearantly not man enough to keep his work, Penny Arcade have decided to pay 10K to charity in Jack Thompsons name

http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php?da ... 10-17#2834

Take THAT Jack

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » October 18, 2005, 12:00 pm

Bubba, part of being a "good" parent is being involved. Could your kids get exposed somewhere else? sure. However I don't see the harm in that unless they become obsessed with it and it they do then you should know about it.

Right now mine are only almost 3 and 1, however I spend pretty much all their waking time with them. My oldest loves games already and like most boys is a huge Batman fan right now. I'm good with that because Batman in general does the right things however the violence alone is too much for a 3 year old to see all the time. Thus some days we watch something else, or don't have the TV on at all and just read at night. I worry more about my youngest as he gets older because I can already tell he is more high strung but when my wife and I decided to have kids we took on the responsibility of teaching them to become decent upstanding adults.

I pray that through the years I can continue the pace I'm at right now. Personally I love my kids so much I have difficulty understanding why any parent wouldn't want to spend all their time with them but I'm sure over time they will want their own personal time as well. What I have to do is to make sure that I have taught them enough to trust them. I know they will make mistakes but hopefully minor ones. Talking, spending time and even playing games together can make a difference. IMHO even violent games might be tolerable in small amounts, not GTO but many of the shooters might be ok if played with Dad who can remind them there is a difference between fantisy and reality.

Joseph, my almost 3 year old has a Level 12 Crusader that we have leveled together with him running and hitting attack and me stearing. We only killed bogs, bugs, snakes, rats, spiders, scarecrows and spiders to keep from killing people. We have had fun doing so but only do it once a week or so just because at this age it can become too real.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the perfect parent, no one probable is for that matter. However I know that if you spend time with your kids and teach them right from wrong it will make a difference. Kids crave love and attention (as we all do to some degree). If they don't get it one way, they will find another.

Marb

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 18, 2005, 12:37 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:In a way I kind of agree with him. If you have a kid who does nothing all day but play video games that are violent some will take it to the real world. Granted that is a small percentage but even still the numbers are alarming enough that there could be many murders as a result. Most laws are in place to protect the many from the few. I don't see how this is much different. People can go on and on about Good Parenting and Bad Parenting but I believe it is much harder than most people think. Even good kids go bad.

I don't know if what he proposes is the right thing. It did get attention and it did make folks think. What if the targets in the game were game makers and not cops? If you truly believe that violent games don't have an effect then what is the big deal? Just another game where you go out and kill shit just like the games we all play already. However, if you believe that the game has an effect on people then we can look forward to dead ceo's of game companies? No great loss there is it because all they are are Office folk who don't actually create the games.

Maybe we do need to restrict these games a bit more. Look at how much we bitch when playing WoW or EQ2 about the kids playing the game. Do you really want to put ideas in their heads? At least in the MMO's we are killing creatures and not Cops. Why not restrict games like Grand Theft Auto to 18 and older? Yeah I know it won't stop them from playing or obtaining a copy but it will be something done in the right direction.

you are also like 67 years old so your opinion means nothing, here's some pourage to gum around!

afk got to kill some coppers yo

Post by **Xouqoa** » October 18, 2005, 1:53 pm

And now for something completely different....

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolitics/110152.html wrote:BREAKING NEWS: Will Seattle's Finest Be Raiding Penny Arcade?

The simmering controversy over anti-game crusader Jack Thompson's controverisal $10,000 donation offer took an ugly turn this morning. The Miami attorney has tried to enlist the efforts of the Seattle Police Department in a dust-up with gamer website Penny Arcade.

In a letter faxed to Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske (left), Thompson says, in part, "A Seattle business by the name of Penny Arcade... employs certain personnel who have decided to commence and orchestrate criminal harassment of me by various means... This company has done this because I dared to go on CBS's 60 Minutes in March and again in July to explain a wrongful death lawsuit I have brought on behalf of two police officers and a police dispatcher in Fayette, Alabama, who were shot in the head and killed by Devin Moore who obsessively trained on Grand Theft Auto: Vice City to kill them."

"As you may know, this incredibly violent Rockstar Games product is actually a 'cop-killing' murder simulator. There are a bunch of computer geeks out there who think that the video game industry has a constitutional right to paint a bullseye on your back and on your officers' backs... That is what this criminal harassment of me by Penny Arcade is all about. They're even selling an 'I Hate Jack Thompson' t-shirt, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. These idiots have been so careless as to post on their http://www.pennyarcade.com web site what they are doing regarding the harassment of me."

"I look forward to working with your fine Police Department to shut this little extortion factory down and/or arrest some of its employees."

This latest controversy is part and parcel to a complicated dispute over Thompson's bizarre offer to donate $10K to charity provided that a developer create and distribute a violent game of Thompson's specification in which the victims were industry executives and their families.

GP is seeking comment from the folks at Penny Arcade, but given the East Coast-West Coast time differential, it's likely they haven't even rolled into Starbucks yet. We'll add anything we hear from them. We'll also add any comment we are able to get from SPD, although Thompson's complaint wouldn't seem likely to be high on their priority list. And anyway, their investigation will likely be hindered by the fact that Thompson's letter provides the wrong URL for Penny Arcade.

By the way, the Penny Arcade case is not the first time the volatile attorney has tried to sic the gendarmes on a game site.

Can you say "chilling effect?"

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » October 18, 2005, 2:48 pm

i find it sad that Xouqua reads livejournal

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » October 18, 2005, 2:52 pm

When I play GTA I like to beat up hookers. Sometimes when I'm driving and I see a hooker I forget its not a game.

Please for the love of god, take this game away before I kill another hooker!

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » October 18, 2005, 2:53 pm

And on a seriose note, man never piss off gamers, as they have a lot of time and access to the internet. Yer ass gets hammr3d!

edit ;AHAH! Now i get the OMG... joke. heh A Lot, not OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS.

Post by **Xouqoa** » October 18, 2005, 3:09 pm

Sylvos wrote:i find it sad that Xouqua reads livejournal

I found the link on Fark, joker boy!

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » October 18, 2005, 5:29 pm

Xouqoa wrote:
Sylvos wrote:i find it sad that Xouqua reads livejournal
I found the link on Fark, joker boy!

Sure you do, I bet next you'll say you've never beat off.

Tangurena · Post by **Tangurena** » October 18, 2005, 10:40 pm

Jack tried to bully Janet Reno into filling out this form during a political campaign when he was running against her:

Jack Thompson wrote:I, Janet Reno, am a
[ ] Homosexual
[ ] Bisexual
[ ] Heterosexual

Woody's parody of it on 16AUG05

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » October 19, 2005, 12:41 am

Breaking News
In a class action lawsuit, millions of gamers filed for harrasment against Jack Tomphson. Jack responds "this is almost as frivilous as my case!"

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 19, 2005, 3:02 am

the guy is a crackpot. he got his 15 minutes on 60 minutes (wow) and now he is just milking it. he's getting more shrill and stupid the more the mainstream media ignores him, now he's just a ranting loon and the only attention he gets is from the gaming press now; who will report on just about anything in a desperate attempt to look like a legitimate source of news.

the faster people start ignoring him the quicker he'll go away. he smells a second attempt at a class action lawsuit that will make him filthy rich, but in reality the idiot couldn't build a case against osama bin laden in manhattan district court.

people have actually written him emails just call him a dumbshit, and this jackass actually writes them back and threatens to destroy them. he is completely out of touch with reality.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » October 19, 2005, 4:24 am

kyoukan wrote:people have actually written him emails just call him a dumbshit, and this jackass actually writes them back and threatens to destroy them. he is completely out of touch with reality.

That isnt so bad. But the people who have written him emails trying to get an intelligent discussion going he also mail back with insults and threaten to destroy them. Thats a MUCH bigger problem

Btw, was wondering how the cops see this guy.
I mean, hes a lawyer, whos trying hard and actively to get cop killers free on a "video games made me do it" defence that he cant prove, and are rabid to a degree that make other official groups that could try to back up his claim turn away from him. And hes threatening everyone, filing police reports for nothing, even contacted FBI about death threaths when someone made a Jack Thompson buddy icon.
If i were a cop, i would try to get this idiot as far away from me as possible, first because hes a troublemaker, and secondary because he tries to get cop killers loose and make my job harder.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » October 19, 2005, 9:07 am

JFC, this retard won't give up.

Taken from Wikipedia (great read as a whole), for the action taken after PA wrote their check:

A day later, Jack Thompson retaliated: he faxed a letter to Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske, requesting assistance in halting the activities of Krahulik and Holkins [29]. In his letter, he described how personnel within Penny Arcade were conducting activities of harassment against him. He described it as an act of retaliation for his appearance on 60 Minutes earlier in the year, where he claimed that the game, Grand Theft Auto, trained a young man to kill two police officers. Among the offensive acts he enumerated were the sale of an "I Hate Jack Thompson" shirt, and frequent postings on an unrelated site for a performer named Penny Arcade called pennyarcade.com, where they allegedly admitted to harassing Thompson.

According to GameSpot, as of 9:55 PDT October 18, 2005, the Seattle Police Department had not received Thompson's fax, which at that point had been faxed to GameSpot, Penny Arcade, and other sites. Thompson emailed GameSpot, claiming that he had fixed the URL for Penny Arcade and faxed the letter, commenting, "They have it now." Thompson also told GameSpot that he was not a "pixelated piñata in a game." He ended by saying that Penny-Arcade had chosen "the wrong target" and "I've been at this longer than he has." As of 2:31PM PDT, the fax had still not been recieved.

Here's the fax:

And there's the check, wtg PA!

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » October 21, 2005, 1:37 pm

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051019-5458.html

Guess being an obnoxious lawyer who act like a bull in a china shop and threated to sue everyone left and right DO have consequences.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » October 21, 2005, 5:48 pm

god damn it, it couldnt be a Source Mod?

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 21, 2005, 6:45 pm

Looks like the gamers are owning him. Good for them.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » October 21, 2005, 7:05 pm

Jack Thompson: "Im a few peanuts short of an individual peanut!"

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » November 8, 2005, 2:36 pm

Poor Jack is in trouble

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12774

When Judge Moore asked Thompson to justify some of the statements made in his press releases, he replied: "I'm not pretending I'm not a nice guy. I'm not pretending I don't have a temper."

"Why did you do this?" Moore asked Thompson, pointing to a huge stack of press releases and letters submitted by Blank Rome as evidence of Thompson's legal violations.

"You said after the criminal trial to 'have at it'," Thompson said. The judge had imposed a gag order on lawyers until Devin Moore's trial was over.

"Your 'have at it' and my 'have at it' are not the same," the judge replied.

Judge Moore has taken the motion to revoke Thompson's license under advisement, and is also considering a motion to have the entire suit dismissed on the grounds that the First Amendment, which provides for freedom of speech, applies to videogames. The defendants' laywers also claim that Devin Moore's actions could not have been foreseen.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 8, 2005, 3:40 pm

Actually...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12797

Anti-videogames campaigner Jack Thompson has withdrawn from the Grand Theft Auto lawsuit filed against retailers and publishers following accusations that he violated legal ethics.