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Chiefs to Heisman winner White: No thanks for now
Posted: May 2, 2005, 9:12 pm
by nobody
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8437461
Former Heisman Trophy winner Jason White wasn't offered a contract by the Kansas City Chiefs following a three-day rookie camp.
that's gotta suck for him, especially after having reconstructive surgery on both knees.
Posted: May 2, 2005, 9:15 pm
by Winnow
QB is not the position to play in college to give yourself the best chance in the NFL for quick big money contracts even if you're pretty good. It's the position least likely to make an instant impact for a football team so you get one or two uber QBs and the rest are lucky to be picked up on the second day of the draft.
Ty Detmer, Charlie Ward, Andre Ware...lots of lame Heisman winning QBs out there from the past.
Posted: May 3, 2005, 2:42 am
by Aevian Dreaklear
This is always something I've wondered about Charlie Ward. Did he attempt to make it in the NFL or was the NBA his first choice?
Posted: May 3, 2005, 10:18 am
by Spang
he had no desire to play NFL football, if i remember correctly.
Posted: May 3, 2005, 10:40 am
by Deward
Players like White and Timmy Chang don't have much of a shot int he NFL. Their best bet is to play the arena league for a couple years to prove they can handle a higher level. If they excel there then maybe a team will give them a shot. It worked for Adrian McPherson. I doubt he would have been drafted if he didn't have the arena league experience.
Posted: May 3, 2005, 11:19 am
by Sylvus
You don't draft a QB out of the Big 12, that's just plain silly. Everyone knows that if you want to win a Super Bowl, you draft a Michigan QB, and if there isn't one available you go for any other school in the Big 10.
Don't worry, lots of young QBs in the Big 10 right now, so a good crop will come into the NFL in a couple years.
Maybe Jason White and Scott Frost could start an applebutter farm or something.
Posted: May 3, 2005, 11:37 am
by Alfan
Yea, but if McPherson didn't suffer from personal issues and could have stayed at FSU for three full years he proably would have been drafted even higher, of course this is just speculation. He is a freak, though.
-alfan
Posted: May 3, 2005, 11:43 am
by Voronwë
Jason White doesnt have an NFL arm. that's really the beginning and end of it.
Timmy CHang may end up holding a clipboard for 5 or 6 years, which is a hell of a lot better money than posting on this messageboard for a living....er i mean whatever it is i do.
Posted: May 3, 2005, 3:38 pm
by Sueven
Have any current Michigan QB's besides Brady won a super bowl?
Edit: Answered my own question. The answer is NO.
In fact, if Brady hadn't turned from a late round pick into what he is now, the best Michigan QB would be Brian Griese
The list of active Super Bowl winning QB's:
Tom Brady, Michigan
Trent Dilfer, Fresno State
Brett Favre, Southern Miss
Brad Johnson, Florida State
Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa
So actually there aren't any other active super bowl winning QB's from the big ten. The logical recommendation seems to be to avoid the BCS conferences.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 9:23 am
by Ogbar
Here is a most unofficial complete list
Code: Select all
XXXIX 2005 New England Patriots Tom Brady Michigan
XXXVIII 2004 New England Patriots Tom Brady Michigan
XXXVII 2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Brad Johnson Florida State
XXXVI 2002 New England Patriots Tom Brady Michigan
XXXV 2001 Baltimore Ravens Trent Dilfer Fresno State
XXXIV 2000 St. Louis Rams Kurn Warner Northern Iowa
XXXIII 1999 Denver Broncos John Elway Standford
XXXII 1998 Denver Broncos John Elway Standford
XXXI 1997 Green Bay Packers Brett Favre Southern Mississippi
XXX 1996 Dallas Cowboys Troy Aikman UCLA
XXIX 1995 San Francisco 49ers Steve Young BYU
XXVIII 1994 Dallas Cowboys Troy Aikman UCLA
XXVII 1993 Dallas Cowboys Troy Aikman UCLA
XXVI 1992 Washington Redskins Mark Rypien Washington State
XXV 1991 New York Giants Jeff Hostetler West Virginia
XXIV 1990 San Francisco 49ers Joe Montana Notre Dame
XXIII 1989 San Francisco 49ers Joe Montana Notre Dame
XXII 1988 Washington Redskins Doug Williams Grambling
XXI 1987 New York Giants Phil Simms Morehead State
XIX 1985 San Francisco 49ers Joe Montana Notre Dame
XVIII 1984 LA Raiders Jim Plunkett Stanford
XVII 1983 Washington Redskins Joe Theismann Notre Dame
XVI 1982 San Francisco 49ers Joe Montana Notre Dame
XV 1981 Oakland Raiders Jim Plunkett Stanford
XIV 1980 Pittsburgh Steelers Terry Bradshaw Louisiana Tech
XIII 1979 Pittsburgh Steelers Terry Bradshaw Louisiana Tech
XII 1978 Dallas Cowboys Roger Staubach Navy
XI 1977 Oakland Raiders Ken Stabler Alabama
X 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers Terry Bradshaw Louisiana Tech
IX 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers Terry Bradshaw Louisiana Tech
VIII 1974 Miami Dolphins Bob Griese Purdue
VII 1973 Miami Dolphins Bob Griese Purdue
VI 1972 Dallas Cowboys Roger Staubach Navy
V 1971 Baltimore Colts Johnny Unitas Louisville
Earl Morall Michigan State
IV 1970 Kansas City Chiefs Len Dawson Purdue
III 1969 New York Jets Joe Namath Alabama
II 1968 Green Bay Packers Bart Starr Alabama
I 1967 Green Bay Packers Bart Starr Alabama
Sorry for the crappy formatting ....
Note that Earl Morall and Johnny U saw significant time in the Super Bowl V victory for the Colts, so they are both listed.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 11:05 am
by Phugg_Innay
I noticed a LOT of Pac 10 in that list , at least recently. Aikman, Elway, Dilfer, and Way back Mr crooked nose himself Plunket. Lools pretty good for us out west.
Back kinda on topic , first/second round pics NEVER really come to fruition , they just dont. Most of the great QB's come from later rounds as do a lot of the recieving core etc.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 11:09 am
by Sylvus
Sueven wrote:Have any current Michigan QB's besides Brady won a super bowl?
Edit: Answered my own question. The answer is NO.
In fact, if Brady hadn't turned from a late round pick into what he is now, the best Michigan QB would be Brian Griese
The list of active Super Bowl winning QB's:
Tom Brady, Michigan
Trent Dilfer, Fresno State
Brett Favre, Southern Miss
Brad Johnson, Florida State
Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa
So actually there aren't any other active super bowl winning QB's from the big ten. The logical recommendation seems to be to avoid the BCS conferences.
Well, to make that official, let's list Brady's 3 Superbowl wins and two Superbowl MVPs, shall we? And I suppose you mention only Griese because you're focusing on active QBs? Because let's not forget about Jim Harbaugh or Elvis Grbac when talking about Michigan QBs that started NFL teams in the last 10 or 15 years.
Yes, I realize I'm way too big a Michigan fan, and I was exaggerating a bit in my initial assessment, but the fact remains that Big 12 QBs are no good in the NFL and that Big 10 QBs are better. And if you look at Ogbar's list there, Notre Dame might as well be a Big 10 school... the only reason they haven't joined the conference is because they are money-grubbing, Catholic douchebags. Not that we want them, I'm just saying that their QBs are tested in the Big 10 waters as much as any other conference.
In short, screw you guys, the Big 10 is the best conference in football.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 11:42 am
by Alfan
11/19 -- you gonna be there Sylvus?
Posted: May 5, 2005, 11:53 am
by Sylvus
Of course I will be, I don't miss a home game. Nor do I miss the Wolverines playing at the big horseshoe.
See you then!
Posted: May 5, 2005, 2:30 pm
by Sueven
but the fact remains that Big 12 QBs are no good in the NFL and that Big 10 QBs are better.
That does seem to be true. There's not a single Big 12 QB on Ogbar's list.
Sylvus wrote:In short, screw you guys, the Big 10 is the best conference in football. Very Happy
You guys needed Penn State to be worth a shit. Maybe you'll be the best if and when they recover.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 2:34 pm
by Voronwë
If Super Bowl Champion is the measuring stick by which one is deemed "successful" in the NFL, then i think we will find that the vast majority of persons who have careers in the league are failures.
Like Dan Marino.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 2:38 pm
by Sylvus
While I won't argue that Dan Marino might be the most skilled QB in the history of the NFL, do you think - given a choice - the people responsible for a draft (owner, gm, coach, etc) would prefer a guy who will set all of the records and never win a superbowl, or a guy who will win three?
I realize no one person is the sole reason for a team winning the superbowl, just trying to gauge your opinion. Where did Marino go to college, anyway?
Posted: May 5, 2005, 2:55 pm
by Alfan
He came out of Pitt. That year was ridiculous for quarterbacks: Jim Kelly, Marino, and of course the best of all of them in my opinion John Elway. But, yea, Pitt . . . they've had a few good ones over the years.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 3:12 pm
by Sabek
Sylvus wrote:Of course I will be, I don't miss a home game. Nor do I miss the Wolverines losing at the big horseshoe.
See you then!
At least you are realistic about it.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 3:20 pm
by Sylvus
Boy you sure got me there, we've lost there like 2 or 3 times in the last 15 years!
Posted: May 5, 2005, 4:16 pm
by Voronwë
Tom Brady is a great QB, and will go into the Hall of Fame.
HOWEVER, to say he is singularly - or even largely - responsible for 3 Super Bowl championships is a stretch.
The QB gets way too much of the glory in football, and anybody who would choose a QB like Brady over a QB like Peyton Manning (stat machine) is a freaking idiot who who would never rise above the level of Assistant to the Jock Strap Coordinator in a real NFL franchise.
So yeah Dan Marino >>>>>>>>> Tom Brady.
Posted: May 5, 2005, 4:42 pm
by Sylvus
Well, he has been Superbowl MVP 2 times... he's doing something right.
But the question was, is it the responsibility (or desire) of the front office to try and put together a team that will allow a guy to set all the carreer records in football, or to try and win Superbowls? 'Cause no other QB has won superbowls as well as Tom Brady in the last 10 years.
But I digress, my inital point was that if you want to win superbowls, don't go with a Big 12 QB, even if he won the Heisman. I think that still stands!
Posted: May 5, 2005, 5:17 pm
by Voronwë
the answer to your question is Sylvos, is if you want to win superbowls, have a strongly balanced team with excellent coaches on both sides of the ball, and don't be afraid to cut older cornerbacks, and have a front office that can identify talent very well and negotiate good contracts that favor the team's financial structure
Posted: May 5, 2005, 5:59 pm
by Sylvus
wtf, i'm sylvus!
again, don't get me wrong, in my opinion the Pats won their Superbowls because Belichick is the greatest mind working in football and they just played better as a team than anyone else.
i think you'd probably be in my shoes in this conversation if it had been Gino Toretta instead of Tom Brady leading the Pats to those Superbowls!
Posted: May 5, 2005, 11:12 pm
by Voronwë
LOL i cant believe i typed Sylv0s
to hell with Gino Torretta. I had a radio show in college and me and my partner were talking all kinds of smack about the Heisman when they gave it to him over Bledsoe (that is what happened right? i really dont remember college very well)
i think Brady is awesome dont get me wrong =).
Posted: May 6, 2005, 9:49 pm
by Gamei
Speaking of smack, did anyone else listen to the Jim Rome show today? Smackoff 2005 and all that.
I thought it was great, was my first to listen to. I missed the entire first hour but I heard all the contender calls in the second hour. Really funny stuff.