Typical EQ2 forum discussion

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 1:29 pm

Non EQ2 player - EQ2 sucks
EQ2 player - No it doesn't

Repeat ad nauseum.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 3, 2005, 1:34 pm

/farm

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 3, 2005, 1:36 pm

EQ2 is a wonderful game

FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!

/farm on Wayne!

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 2:15 pm

Do you mean for every thread not started by Akaran?

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » February 3, 2005, 2:16 pm

hey now.
I'm the moderator.. making sure content is added to this forum is what I do..

Lynnsie · Post by **Lynnsie** » February 3, 2005, 2:22 pm

noel please change your avatar back to brad pitt, he is way hotter than Val Kilmer

Thx!

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » February 3, 2005, 2:30 pm

Yes, but he was not your huckleberry.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 3:03 pm

Done.

Y'know what... Fuck you miir. I've had about enough of your incessant whining. I haven't played WoW in about a month due to not having Internet access yet at my new home, and frankly, it's just a fucking game.

Just like EQ2.

My first post notwithstanding, and I don't really give a flying fuck if you believe this or not, but I find the MMOG industry fascinating. I've played most of the games that have come out, including all of SOE's games prior to EQ2. I've watched how SOE handles the games they release both before and after release, and I've been able to draw some conclusions.

Like I've said before... People should play games they enjoy. If that's a PC game, Console Game, etc. I don't care, but I can give criticism to all of them without being labelled as some kind of troll or some kind of fucking fanboi.

I think the problems that WoW has had since release have been WELL documented, but if you'd like I can recount them. I've definitely been on one of the better servers, and apparently because of this, I simply got lucky with my server selection. I've heard some real horror stories about the quality of service on some of the other servers. Overall though, I think the game, when playable is a lot of fun, especially from a soloer, with little time to devote to an MMOG.

Believe it or not, I read quite a bit about EQ2, and I have yet to see that it's a game where you can solo effectively without a decent amount of tedium, even from the people that like the game. SOE admitted as much in Smed's recent 'coming soon' letter posted by Akaran. So frankly, the playability of EQ2 for someone with my available time is a barrier to entry before I even pick it up.

I don't give a shit about the graphics. Different graphics look different to different people. Some people like Doom 3's graphics, some people prefer HL2s, some people prefer EQ2, some WoW... it's personal preference.

That said, we can look at some facts. The fact is that a group of people from VV started playing EQ2 when the game came out, and a portion of that group is now no longer playing it. At the same time, a portion of people started playing WoW, and I have yet to see (except in jest

) someone saying they are no longer playing it. Again, this says nothing about the quality of the game, graphics, developers, or support, merely something about the personal preference of those people.

You are seriously way, way, way too defensive about this game which is after all, only a game.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 3:16 pm

No it doesn't

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 3:20 pm

miir wrote:No it doesn't

I'm sure that's why the producer said:

This generation of gamers is very different from those that have gone before. Many people out there (quite a few of us included) just don't have the large blocks of uninterrupted time that we used to. We still want to be able to come online, have fun, be challenged, and be rewarded for our efforts. Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they're the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were.

Again, I'm only going by what I read on the forums, but I'd guess the producer should have a decent idea of what's going on in his game.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 3:33 pm

I've had about enough of your incessant whining

I know you like to stroke your insecure little ego by antagonizing people in this forum. I can't change that fact that you, by nature, are an immature attention whore.

If you don't want to hear my 'incessant whining' stay the fuck out of this forum. It's akin to someone emailing a gay porno site and saying that they have had enough of seeing pictures of men assfucking each other.

What I am trying to say is that your logic eludes me.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 3:35 pm

Yet you reply with cute little one-liners to what I believe to be well-researched, and valid points, and offer no explanation. Then when I ask for an explanation, you make a post about me being a troll. Are you sure you're not the one trolling this forum?

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 3:45 pm

Yet you reply with cute little one-liners

Read the first post in the thread, retard.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 3:46 pm

Yeah, trolling.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 3:55 pm

You're so predicatable, Noel.

I'll put away my fishing pole now.

Lynnsie · Post by **Lynnsie** » February 3, 2005, 5:36 pm

noel wrote:Done.

So hawt...thanks for the eye candy Noel

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 5:59 pm

miir wrote:You're so predicatable, Noel.

I'll put away my fishing pole now.

Happy to help!

I'll keep reading this forum so I can learn about the wonder that is EQ2! Perhaps if I hear the game becomes solo friendly, I'll pick it up. I hear the voiceovers are AMAZING!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 3, 2005, 6:01 pm

AMAZINGly repetitive and annoying.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 6:06 pm

It is solo friendly.

I logged on late last night, solod for about 45 minutes and made over 10% in level 38 before I logged out. They have made a bunch of changes recently that made soloing even more viable as a means of leveling.

Hell, I've even dropped out of weak groups to because I get better XP solo. Mind you, soloing is probably the most boring way to play the game, but whatever floats your boat.

Not that any of that matters to you... it's much easier to selectively read forum posts that are in line with your ignorant opinions than to actually ask someone who plays the game.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 6:09 pm

I spend quite a bit of time on corpnews.com (among other forums), and there's an entire thread about the soloability of EQ2. I also read the producer's letter, and frankly that seemed to confirm that there were indeed issues with soloability in the game. I'm sure you can see where reading the producer's letter would give that impression...

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 6:11 pm

Fash wrote:AMAZINGly repetitive and annoying.

And AMAZINGly easy to disable voiceovers from repeating.

The only really annoying voiceover is an NPC in Willow Wood (Bryan Shorecling)... but he was made intentionally annoying. I want to split his skull with an axe whenever he talks to me.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 3, 2005, 6:11 pm

I did play the game.. and i found it incredibly boring to solo. however, i find the same thing very entertaining in teh other game.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 6:18 pm

Heh, just checked out that thread and I didin't notice anyone posting there that actually played EQ2 beyond the newbie levels.

I will admit that Tier 3 zones solo content was pretty slim (until this week)... limited to a few areas in Nektulos and Thundering Steppes.
In comparison, Tier 4 zones are teeming with solo content.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 6:24 pm

Fash wrote:I did play the game.. and i found it incredibly boring to solo. however, i find the same thing very entertaining in teh other game.

Soloing in any MMOGs will always get boring.

If Everquest was as solo friendly as WoW, the entire VV community would not exist. I primarily play MMOGs for the social interaction. If a game offers no rewards and gives no compelling reason to interact/cooperate/group with other players, it will have very limited long-term appeal.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 6:29 pm

miir wrote:If Everquest was as solo friendly as WoW, the entire VV community would not exist. I primarily play MMOGs for the social interaction. If a game offers no rewards and gives no compelling reason to interact/cooperate/group with other players, it will have very limited long-term appeal.

I totally agree with your first statement. I believe you're third statement to be true as well. I think WoW will be the test.

The real question with WoW in my mind is what happens when there is content that does force people to group, and will it be enough to give the game longevity.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 3, 2005, 6:32 pm

i want the social interaction too, but i want to level first.... i'm interested in grouping and raiding, but not until im at least level 40.

i agree solo'ing in EQ was not feasible for most classes and that EQ and veeshan would be a different animal if it were...

I personally was worn out of eq2 within a month, and could possibly get worn out on teh other at any time. it's a different time, we're all at different points in our lives, we all have different goals and objectives..

we really can all be friends and yet criticize pieces of each game.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 3, 2005, 6:35 pm

Actually, it's been the PvP fights that have made me friends in WoW, not grouping. Destroying a couple groups of Alliance faggots really helps build camaraderie, and I still chat with those peeps when I see them. Shit if a few weren't in other guilds already, I'd have tried to cyb0r them into Ixtlan.

I just saying if you think the only way to make friends in an MMO is via mindlessly killing the same shit for hours on end EQ-style, you're mistaken.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 6:41 pm

Fash wrote:we really can all be friends and yet criticize pieces of each game.

Total agreement.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 6:43 pm

I'm enjoying this 'civil' discussion.

The real question with WoW in my mind is what happens when there is content that does force people to group, and will it be enough to give the game longevity.

I guess that was my biggest gripe with WoW. It was so easy to solo. You could level at a good rate but you really had little reason to interact with anyone else. It was difficult to meet new people or get a group together.

I upgraded to the Station 'all access' thing on Feb 1. The same day I went out and bough SWG and JTL (super mega cheap) for shits and giggles. Well, I fired up SWG, made a Zabrak Entertainer and sat in a cantina for a little over an hour. I met more people and had more social interaction in that time than I did in playing WoW for a month. Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that SWG is a steaming pile of crap (JTL is pretty fun though) but it gave me some insight as to why people still play (and enjoy) SWG.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 3, 2005, 6:45 pm

I just saying if you think the only way to make friends in an MMO is via mindlessly killing the same shit for hours on end EQ-style, you're mistaken.

I don't recall anyone saying that it was the only way.

Forced grouping in EQ certainly helped build the Veeshan community.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 3, 2005, 6:50 pm

Your posts about the lack of socilization in WoW definitely implied it. Grouping in WoW is great if you get non-retards. The sheer biomass in that game makes that a challenge, however.

In answer to your question re: higher level areas that require grouping:
It's HARD. The learning curve is steep and a lot of people aren't going to master it until the expansion and upping of the level cap.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 7:47 pm

miir wrote:I upgraded to the Station 'all access' thing on Feb 1. The same day I went out and bough SWG and JTL (super mega cheap) for shits and giggles. Well, I fired up SWG, made a Zabrak Entertainer and sat in a cantina for a little over an hour. I met more people and had more social interaction in that time than I did in playing WoW for a month. Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that SWG is a steaming pile of crap (JTL is pretty fun though) but it gave me some insight as to why people still play (and enjoy) SWG.

If you like the socializing, SWG is the best bar-none. As a former master dancer, I can say with reasonable certainty that if you hang out in the cantinas long enough, you'll meet most everyone on your server. That game was perfect for people who like crafting or socializing. If you weren't really into those two things, it didn't have much else of note (imho).

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 3, 2005, 7:50 pm

Did you ever do a Cantina Crawl?

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 7:55 pm

I was too busy impersonating Kylie Minogue...

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 3, 2005, 7:56 pm

noel wrote:I was too busy impersonating Kylie Minogue...

mmm, she is yummy biscuits

noel · Post by **noel** » February 3, 2005, 7:59 pm

Yeah it was cool until I started getting cyber-stalked by idiots that actually believed I was her. Within seconds of logging on, I was getting tells, and an occasional email asking for 'my' autograph.

So then I started playing my combat medic.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 3, 2005, 10:11 pm

mangina trick you

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 4, 2005, 2:07 am

noel wrote:That said, we can look at some facts. The fact is that a group of people from VV started playing EQ2 when the game came out, and a portion of that group is now no longer playing it. At the same time, a portion of people started playing WoW, and I have yet to see (except in jest ) someone saying they are no longer playing it. Again, this says nothing about the quality of the game, graphics, developers, or support, merely something about the personal preference of those people.

I cancelled both of my WoW accounts, and I never even picked up my pre-order of EQ2. I'm not bashing either game because I still think both games have promise.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 4, 2005, 9:55 am

miir wrote:I guess that was my biggest gripe with WoW. It was so easy to solo. You could level at a good rate but you really had little reason to interact with anyone else. It was difficult to meet new people or get a group together.

Just like EQ1, there are lots of idiots playing WoW who've no idea how to play "efficiently". As Masteen said, with higher level content you've no choice but to group. You've got to have competent people or you'll be dying endlessly.

Somewhat due to that, I rarely group outside the guild. Just like in EQ1.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 4, 2005, 10:04 am

The big problem is, soloers do not usually know how to play in groups. Your spell lineups are different, your approach is different, your timing for landing things is different, etc. Nothing you do solo prepares you for grouping in high level content. Now some people may have a good idea about how to approach it because of experience in past games, but if you strcitly solo your way, then you are going to be clueless about the little things that make the difference between a great player of your class and being an average schmuck who gets invited to groups or guild based purely on their class.

I read the class boards even for EQ 2 and am amazed at people who whine about "my dps sucks compared to x class" and "I am remaking x class because I don;t have anything good" or "my class can't solo so I am making an x". Save the fucking time and stop remaking characters! It is not the class that sucks...it is YOU not learning to play it to its potential. It is a problem in every game, but I imagine you are going to have serious issues with it in WoW with the Blizzard kiddies and the easy soloability.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 4, 2005, 10:49 am

Which classes are you thinking of? 'cause... I think I can say w/o any reservation that druids just suck outright at the moment.

They *can* solo, and quite quickly now they've (what looks like) tripled the solo xp from yellow con mobs.

But they're still shite DPS and don't hold a candle to a shaman let alone a priest for healing.

Plus they stripped out all the "classic" EQ1 druid stuff... even SoW is crap, you're better off as an enchanter w/ breeze and sprint

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 4, 2005, 10:54 am

and the number of eq2 character classes played to level 20+ by kilmoll?

One?.. thought so.

The social scene in any game adds just as many reasons not to play as it does to play.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 4, 2005, 11:11 am

I play what is greatly perceived as THE weakest soloing class in the game. I also did the wizard thing on another server before it got deleted to make an alt on Befallen. Wizard was definitely easier to solo with than the Swash. If someone truly wanted the solo experience in EQ 2, they need to take the guardian or Paladin or SK. Having all of your big damage coming from frontal attacks and having mad AC is the key. Pure casters can do ok because of the root/nuke and being able to drop fatter nukes with their HO's. Try soloing when a good half or more of your attacks can only be used from behind....or when a good quarter of your damage output comes from poisons that you have to buy and hope don't get resisted.

I would put any amount of cash down that says I can have any class you want to level 20 in 2 weeks.....solo. It is only hard if you compare it to WoW.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 4, 2005, 11:23 am

I read the class boards even for EQ 2 and am amazed at people who whine about "my dps sucks compared to x class" and "I am remaking x class because I don;t have anything good" or "my class can't solo so I am making an x". Save the fucking time and stop remaking characters! It is not the class that sucks...it is YOU not learning to play it to its potential. It

I have to take exception the the DPS issue.

My Warlock is is currently 38.
Warlock/Wizard should be top DPS.
Period.

We sacrifice 50% Defense and HP to plate/chain classes.
Our base power pool is not noticeably larger than any other class. I've personally grouped with some players (fighter archetypes) with larger power pools.
Caster gear is generally not heavy on INT or power. All of my gear is orange or yellow and weighted to +power. Conversely, fighter archetypes have gear loaded with STR (their power pool is based on str).

So you'd think that with all those disadvantages (less def, less HP and equal power) that a wizard/warlock should logically, deal the best DPS (by a large margin).

This is not really the case.
My nukes are all adept 1 or better.
The only way I can maintain a DPS advantage in groups is if I forego debuffs and start chain nukeing/dot-ing from the beginning of the fight. Barring resists, I will outdamage most groupmates by about 10-20%.

If I buff/debuff and nuke (aka: do my job), my DPS is matched by.. get this... fighters. That's right, tanks... guardians, berserkers, monks and bruisers deal basically the same DPS than the fragile mages.

The problem lies with the spell upgrades. My level 37 'big hitter' (Nil Distortion) is at Adept 1 actually deals less damage than my level 23 Dark Distortion and my level 30 'training' nuke. In about 3-4 more levels, Nil will be dealing better damage but that's besides the point. Upgrades should be upgrades.

Fortunately, the devs have addressed this and will be reworking the wiz/war spell lines/upgrades.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 4, 2005, 11:32 am

I would agree that those classes need a minor beefing at higher levels. I just hope they don't go overboard with it or there are going to be a LOT of dead casters. Now....I would not agree that the Warlock should be as high of a DPS as the Wizard....because they are more of a utility class than straight nuker. The Warlock is to the Caster class what the Swash is to the Scouts. We sacrifice a little DPS to bring a whole shit ton more to a group.

As for your gear, I am seriously questioning you on that. I can't shake my dick in a corner of Nek Castle without a piece of +8 Int gear dropping out of a wall. That place is rife with caster gear and we can't get anything to drop wearable by chain class. We also have high Int stuff dropping from Varsoon and other named mobs. Maybe you are just on the wrong server!

I have a pretty beefy power pool because I took training options that were specifically geared to give me a large power pool. I put everything into Agi and took the one that gave me a larger available pool. It seems that I have the power of most people who are 2-3 levels above me. I am not sure that I have ever run out of power doing any one encounter.

They are going to be resetting training again btw.....and put real descriptions on them so you know what the fuck you are getting. So you do have the chance to really tune yourself one more time and make those tweaks to things like that.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 4, 2005, 12:35 pm

I would not agree that the Warlock should be as high of a DPS as the Wizard....because they are more of a utility class than straight nuker.

Wizard and Warlock nukes are virtually identical. Warlock has some DOTs in place of some of the Wizard mid damage nukes. Our debuffs are pretty much the same as well with Wizard debuffs working for elemental instead of noxious.

The only real difference is the utility spells.
Wizards get mez, evac, health-to-power spells, self-stun power heals and their buffs usually add +health/str/power and arcane mitigation.
Warlocks get some powerpool buffs, tageted power heals, some minor lifetap procs and our group buffs add power, noxious mitigation and minor out-of-combat power regen.

You could actually argue that wizards have more utility than warlocks... No point really as both classes are pretty balanced when compared to each other.

In grouping with wizards, I consistently deal more damage than them. That might be more due to my playstyle than anything else.

As for your gear, I am seriously questioning you on that. I can't shake my dick in a corner of Nek Castle without a piece of +8 Int gear dropping out of a wall......

I'm guessing you're in your high 20s. At that point in the game everything is pretty well balanced. The balance issues really don't start rearing their head until the late 30s.

I am not sure that I have ever run out of power doing any one encounter.

I have. That's the dillema with mages (especially wiz/war) as unless we use our power, we do zero damage.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 4, 2005, 12:51 pm

Actually, I am 35. The gear we were seeing in Nek was not useable until level 34....so should still be well within range for you at 38. There is also some really nice stuff dropping in the new zones...Obelisk comes to mind right off. The Varsoon's piece was red to me at 35....so I would be thinking about visiting that bastard every 4 days.

Proctus · Post by **Proctus** » February 4, 2005, 9:48 pm

I disagree that Warlocks/wizards should be the highest DPS class. Quite personally, what they give up in hp/def they get in RANGE POWER. The game is quite different from a Rogue/Predator point of view where your armor is real low, have below average hp (compared to tank classes) yet have to be within melee range to deal damage whereas a warlock/wizard can root, dot run etc and avoid damage. It's all in the strategy and choice.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 5, 2005, 1:09 am

I disagree that Warlocks/wizards should be the highest DPS class.

You may disagree but the developers have stated:

wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another.

a warlock/wizard can root, dot run etc and avoid damage. It's all in the strategy and choice.

That really only applies to soloing situations.

DPS in groups is where the problem lies... wiz/war are clearly not fulfilling their intended (top DPS) role in a group at higher levels.