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Nash for MVP? A well written ESPN article on the subject

Posted: December 16, 2004, 3:35 am
by Winnow
I didn't want this one to get buried in my game-by-game analysis Suns thread. It's worthwhile because it points out what an MVP should be and explains how stats aren't everything.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... eel/041215
A candidate we can all root for

By Eric Neel
Page 2

Let's hear it for Steve Nash for MVP.

Let's start the campaign right here and now.

Steve Nash for MVP.

The Suns won 29 games all last year. They're going to win that many by mid-January this season.

Steve Nash for MVP.

It's only December, but groundswelling and grassrootsing take time. On a thing like this, we have to get the ball rolling early.

He isn't your typical candidate. He's averaging just about 16 points a night, and MVPs are usually good for well above 20. He's playing the pure, pass-first point, and you can ask John Stockton and J-Kidd how much hardware that's been good for over the years. (Magic didn't win an MVP until he bumped his scoring to 23-plus in '87).

He's a long shot, but he's the right call.

The Suns score 109 points a night these days (14 above the league average, seven better than their closest competitors). They run good teams into the ground. They come in waves, they go on 21-0 runs (against Golden State last week) that turn NBA games into spirit-crushing, basketball-bully scenes straight out of "The Great Santini."

His numbers aren't the gaudiest -- but he still deserves some hardware.
Nash makes it happen.

He's as fast from circle to circle as anyone in the league, and he's pushing the ball up the floor like he's got the hounds of hell at his back. He averages 11 assists a night, and 15-plus per 48 minutes. He hits guys filling lanes and guys spotting up; and when the defense sags, he calls on his own junebugging jumper to the tune of a .533 field-goal percentage (and .414 from 3).

Look at those last two numbers. Think on them a minute. Tape 'em to your set for Wednesday night's game against the Jazz; and while you watch, try to reconcile them with the speed and aggressiveness of his approach. (You might need that TiVo slo-mo feature.) They do not compute. But there they are.

The game is flowing off his fingers. He's crackling. Think Mickey the Magician at the heart of the "Fantasia" storm. Think of popcorn going bang under the Jiffy-Pop foil. Ask Amare, who's up six in-perfect-stride points a night over last season, what I'm talking about. Ask Shawn Marion, if you can get him to come down off his alley-oop cloud. Ask Joe Johnson about his career bests from the field and from beyond the arc. Ask the good people over at 82games.com, who'll tell you the Suns, with the addition of Nash at the helm, are thus far 69 points better than the next-best five-man unit in the league (San Antonio's starting five). Ask the fans in Phoenix, many of whom, rumor has it, are growing their hair out and wetting it down on game days in the hope that some of the Nash magic might wind its way into their lives.

Because, see, Nash's first pass, the selfless, quick-draw way he's kicking the ball to open space and to open teammates, is infectious. Look at highlights from the beat-down the Suns put on Orlando Monday night. Quentin Richardson's rising up for what looks like a Quentin Richardson jump shot on the right wing, but he's just duping ... in mid-air, the shot becomes a little dump-down to Stoudamire, which becomes a big ol' dunk, which becomes five smiles on the way back down the court.

I'm telling you, Steve Nash isn't a Sun, he's the culture of the Suns (as a team, Phoenix is averaging a fourth-best 23.09 assists per game). He's who they are. And what they are is 18-3.

Amare Stoudemire's got to love getting dunks off Nash's dishes.
I'm telling you, Steve Nash for MVP.

He's worthy. He's worthy on his own merits; and he's worthy because his energy, style, and skill have done a remake on the Suns that puts the surgeons and stylists at "The Swan" to shame.

And just think of the way the vote strikes a symbolic blow.

Here's a guy who turns the MVP tradition inside out. Here's maybe the least predictable winner in history. You don't have to be a dominant big man to win. You don't have to lead the league in scoring to win. You don't have to dunk to win. You don't have to be KG, Shaq, Kobe, or T-Mac. You can be a wiry, hang-dog, thirty-something, 6-foot-3 point and be the center of the basketball world.

A vote for Nash is a vote for the points of old, too. It's a vote for Cousy. It's a vote for Kevin Porter and Tiny Archibald. It's a vote for Isiah and Stockton, and for Kidd, as well.

Call Steve Nash the MVP and you recognize a whole team. You acknowledge all the players who flow with his flow, from Amare to Bo Outlaw, and every Casey Jacobsen in between. More than that, call Steve Nash the MVP and you recognize the whole idea of team. The Suns have five guys averaging more than 14 points a game right now. There are stars on this team, to be sure, but there's no traditional superstar. They are balanced, and a threat from every corner and angle.

If Steve Nash is the MVP, basketball is fun again.

Up-tempo ball is back.

Pat Riley is dead and Jeff Van Gundy is on life support.

If Steve Nash is the MVP, we're not about wars of attrition, muscle-bound match-ups, and watch-the-paint-dry isolations. We're about pace, about play, about players, and about the game we know and love from the schoolyards and those grainy Showtime games on NBA TV.

Steve Nash has simply transformed the Suns in his first season in Phoenix.
It's a statement vote. It's a style vote. It's a philosophical vote.

So who's with me?

Steve Nash for MVP! Steve Nash for MVP! Steve Nash for MVP!

Make it a movement. Make it a shibboleth, one of those code phrases by which believers of the same faith recognize one another and gather together.

And let the word go forth.

Paint a sign on a wall somewhere. Write it in the dust on somebody's back windshield. Get a tattoo. Put it on your answering machine.

And kids, next time the teacher asks a question, raise your hand, flip a no-look eraser pass to your friend in the next aisle, and say ...

"Steve Nash for MVP."

Eric Neel is a columnist for Page 2. His Basketball Jones column will appear each Wednesday during the NBA season.

Posted: December 16, 2004, 9:01 pm
by Kelshara
Possibly. Although to me, the team of the MVP has to fail miserably without him. That is what a MVP is to me. And I think Suns have enough talent to succeed even without Nash. He is up there as one of the choices, but right now I think I would have to give my vote to LeBron. Cavs would have been dead in the water without him, and that is with oponents trying eliminate him from the games and failing miserably.

Posted: December 16, 2004, 9:06 pm
by Winnow
Kelshara wrote:Possibly. Although to me, the team of the MVP has to fail miserably without him. That is what a MVP is to me. And I think Suns have enough talent to succeed even without Nash. He is up there as one of the choices, but right now I think I would have to give my vote to LeBron. Cavs would have been dead in the water without him, and that is with oponents trying eliminate him from the games and failing miserably.
The Suns had the same players last year minus Nash (and Q-Rich) and had one of the worst records in the league. That doesn't qualify for your rationale of a team failing miserably without a particular player?

Posted: December 16, 2004, 9:23 pm
by Kelshara
Teams change a lot from year to year. I think (notice that this is just my personal opinion) that the Suns would have been quite a bit better this year even without Nash. More experience. More mature.

I think the MVP race is closer so far this year than ever before that I can remember. Nash. LeBron. Francis is playing huge. Wade is truly shining. Duncan is the usual pillar of support. KG.

You can go on. Extremely close.

Posted: December 17, 2004, 6:25 am
by Karae
Eh, come on. We all know they aren't giving the MVP to someone who can actually lead a team by passing. They're giving it to someone flashy, like KG or LeBron, who is top 5 in at least 3 statistical categories.

That being said, I've been mystifyingly impressed with Phoenix. I think Nash deserves the award currently. I'm not entirely convinced, yet, that it'll keep up the rest of the season though. That being said, if Phoenix can keep their momentum I'd really like to see Nash get it...but even if they do I wouldn't consider it likely. I think it's more likely that Stoudemire would get it...

All in all, though I think Nash has been one of the greatest boons to a team this year, I just don't think he has the profile to pull in the MVP. I'd put LeBron, KG, and Tim Duncan as the frontrunners so far.

In other words, did John Stockton win the MVP or did Karl Malone? Which one of them was really the backbone of that team?

Posted: December 17, 2004, 12:26 pm
by Proctus
Lebron had an offnight last night against the lakers. This better not be a reoccuring theme...

Posted: December 17, 2004, 1:03 pm
by Winnow
Karae wrote:
All in all, though I think Nash has been one of the greatest boons to a team this year, I just don't think he has the profile to pull in the MVP. I'd put LeBron, KG, and Tim Duncan as the frontrunners so far.

In other words, did John Stockton win the MVP or did Karl Malone? Which one of them was really the backbone of that team?
I think that was the whole point of the article above. He's trying to change the mindset for how an MVP is chosen. I don't know how MVPs are picked. If the fans do the voting then there's no chance in hell Nash will get it. Michael Jorden would get it if he came out of retirement. The general fan is that stupid. If coaches or journalists pick the MVP then Nash has a shot as the Suns are getting a ton of press atm with their fast start, high scoring, etc. Stockton was never traded so his value wasn't viewed as a jolt to the system like Nash's has been.

Without getting into potential problems the Suns will run into during the playoffs, I'm glad that the Suns are in my home town as they are the most entertaining NBA team to watch play this season. That's not to say I don't appreciate defense but it comes in the form of blocks, pressure, and steals resulting in fast breaks with the Suns.

When you look at the Suns, you've got to be enthusiastic about thier future. They've got their key players signed, they have the Bulls #1 pick which will be either the 4th-10ish pick this year or possibly 2nd-10th the following year. Their future looks bright and they even have decent roleplayer and backup players in place. Jackobson needs to be moved IMO. He plays hard but has been bricking on free throws and isn't shooting much...and that's what he's here for.

The current thinking is that Joe Johnson will be resigned for just slightly more than what Q-Rich's contract was for. That would lock up Amare, Marion, Nash, JJ and Q-Rich for several seasons of great hoops barring major injuries.

Posted: May 9, 2005, 4:19 pm
by Winnow
*bump* :)

Posted: May 9, 2005, 4:22 pm
by Voronwë
his team is +33 games from last year.

that is the best in NBA history, right? Jordan's comback in 1995 got like +28.

no i'm not comparing the two players, i'm just saying, thats a compelling case for MVP by itself.

Posted: May 9, 2005, 8:46 pm
by Proctus
Voronwë wrote:his team is +33 games from last year.

that is the best in NBA history, right? Jordan's comback in 1995 got like +28.

no i'm not comparing the two players, i'm just saying, thats a compelling case for MVP by itself.
#3. 2 San Antonio Spurs seasons rank above our 33 game improvement. The current Record is 35 games.

Posted: May 10, 2005, 1:17 pm
by cid
I am not a fan of Shaquille, but look what the Lakers are without him and Miam is with him.

Posted: May 10, 2005, 1:22 pm
by Winnow
cid wrote:I am not a fan of Shaquille, but look what the Lakers are without him and Miam is with him.
You can't look at is as "without" only as "with".

The Lakers are a mess. Kobe has screwed that team up royally. They lost Shaq and replaced him with crap. You can't seriously say Divac is a replacement of any worth these days. Of course the Lakers were going to collapse. Who wants to play with Kobe? Maybe AI will.

If you want to work the with/without angle, look at the 6 game losing streak the Suns went on without Nash for the majority of it and their 80ppg vs 100+ with Nash.

Posted: May 10, 2005, 4:21 pm
by Sueven
They lost Shaq and replaced him with crap.
You mean besides the guy who averaged 17, 10, and 4 last year?

Posted: May 10, 2005, 4:41 pm
by Winnow
Sueven wrote:
They lost Shaq and replaced him with crap.
You mean besides the guy who averaged 17, 10, and 4 last year?
Yes that guy. You can't just plug someone in and expect the same numbers. Team chemistry is a huge part of how people perform. Kobe is no leader and it shows in the Laker's record this year. So yes, Shaq has that intangible "presence" performance effect.

Posted: May 11, 2005, 3:02 am
by Pherr the Dorf
Are the lakers a worse team without Shaq, yep

Are the Mavs a worse team without Nash, nope

And no complete and total sieve on the defensive end should ever be voted MVP

Posted: May 11, 2005, 3:10 am
by Winnow
Pherr the Dorf wrote:Are the lakers a worse team without Shaq, yep

Are the Mavs a worse team without Nash, nope

And no complete and total sieve on the defensive end should ever be voted MVP
That's not a good way to evaluate the value of a player. It all depends on what quality of player replaces them. That Webster guy for Dallas is decent. Whoever the center was for the Lakers this year sucked ass.

MVP!

Image

Posted: May 14, 2005, 5:04 pm
by Winnow
What do you call someone who can step up and score more to make up for an injured team mate and also dish out 17 assists while continuing to lead and keep his team from getting technicals? You call him the MVP!

Still much hate for you fags that don't think he deserved it.
Nash is Mr. Everything for Suns
Guard takes charge, has 27 points, 17 assists in 42 minutes

David Vest
The Arizona Republic
May. 14, 2005 12:00 AM

DALLAS - Steve Nash started Friday night's game by "fouling himself" and putting up an air ball with his first shot before the game was 30 seconds old.

"I got my hand caught in my draw string," Nash confessed after the Suns regained home-court advantage in this best-of-seven Western Conference semifinal series with a 119-102 victory at American Airlines Center.

The crowd, many of whom adored Nash this time a year ago - some still do - gave the Mavericks' former point guard a rousing, sarcastic cheer after the miss.

Nash, whose poster is still for sale in the Mavericks team shop for $6.99, got the last laugh with a playoff-high 27 points and a career playoff-best 17 assists.

In other words, this Friday the 13th wasn't unlucky for this No. 13.

"Steve Nash is unbelievable," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "He gave us 42 minutes and it didn't affect him too bad going down the stretch."

Nash's effort was his longest this year in a non-overtime game.

Actually, Nash played 42 minutes in another regulation game. Ironically, it was another Phoenix victory on this very court in November.

Nash confirmed that the extra playing time - he averaged 34.3 minutes in the regular season - didn't faze him or his teammates.

"I think we're all in great shape," Nash said. "And we all feel pretty fresh, so we're just excited to have this opportunity.

"Very few people picked us to make the playoffs, so to be in the second round, we're just trying to enjoy it and see how good we can do."

Mavericks coach Avery Johnson said he kept waiting for the short-handed Suns - starter Joe Johnson is out because of an eye injury - to wilt in the fourth quarter but it never happened.

"They seem like they don't get tired," Johnson said.


Nash consistently beat the Mavericks by driving to his left.

He even burned best friend Dirk Nowitzki with a dazzling, left-handed hook shot during the Suns' decisive run to end the game.

"I certainly didn't diagram it," Nash said of the shot. " . . . He's so tall I didn't have much choice. It got pretty dark down there so it was kind of a little bit of a lucky shot."

After Johnson was injured Wednesday, Nash told D'Antoni he'd be willing to play 48 minutes if needed.

Nash said Johnson, who won't play in Game 4 on Sunday, either, was on everybody's mind.

"We got one (victory) for Joe," Nash said. "We all feel sick about what happened to him. It was a just a freak accident and he's going through a lot."

Nash also played a key role in keeping Amaré Stoudemire from getting into trouble with the referees.

The 22-year-old was called for one technical foul and came close to getting another a few other times.

Nash was often there to lend a calming voice.

"I think tonight they tried to get under his skin and ruffle his feathers," Nash said. "I just told him to stay calm and things would be fine."

Stoudemire, of course, certainly ensured things were fine. He finished with a game-high 37 points and a game-high 14 rebounds.

Posted: May 14, 2005, 8:24 pm
by Kelshara
Only fag here is you and your love for mr longhair! Bend over Winnow, you know you want to!

Posted: May 14, 2005, 9:03 pm
by xZiBiT
Winnow = Proctus Rev.2? :shock: :roll:

Why are you acting so schizo? Not everyone is out to get your precious Suns'. mwahahahha

I mean the way you have been carrying on lately, if the Suns' do get put out of the playoffs, one of us is going to have to put you under suicide watch. We are talking about a sports team here, not your family.

I don't think anyone thinks he doesn't deserve it/he isn't a candidate, I just think that some of us think some other player deserved it more. In my case, A.I. was more deserving.

Posted: May 15, 2005, 5:42 am
by Winnow
xZiBiT wrote:Winnow = Proctus Rev.2? :shock: :roll:

Why are you acting so schizo? Not everyone is out to get your precious Suns'. mwahahahha

I mean the way you have been carrying on lately, if the Suns' do get put out of the playoffs, one of us is going to have to put you under suicide watch. We are talking about a sports team here, not your family.

I don't think anyone thinks he doesn't deserve it/he isn't a candidate, I just think that some of us think some other player deserved it more. In my case, A.I. was more deserving.
I'm here to enjoy the rest of the playoffs so won't be arguing over MVP justifications from here on out.

Time to move on and enjoy what's left of the NBA season!