Marines fixing to kick some ass in Fallujah?

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Marines fixing to kick some ass in Fallujah?

Post by Brotha »

If so, all I can say is it's about time.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/ ... index.html
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- With U.S. and Iraqi forces gearing up for an expected major offensive in Falluja, interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said Friday that "we intend to liberate" the city.

Overnight, U.S. warplanes attacked new targets in the insurgent stronghold west of Baghdad.

Against this backdrop, Allawi said Friday the "window is closing" for a peaceful settlement in the "Sunni Triangle" city.

"We intend to liberate the people and bring the rule of law," Allawi said in Brussels, Belgium, where he was visiting the European Union and NATO to discuss aid for his fledgling government.

Meanwhile, forces continued their stepped-up attacks on insurgent targets.

In separate strikes, U.S. Air Force and Marine aircraft destroyed suspected insurgent buildings, barriers used as fortifications, an offensive position that stored explosives, fighting positions and a weapons cache.

A Marine spokesman said a significant amount of munitions was recovered, then destroyed.

A hospital official in Falluja said that two women were critically injured in a U.S. operation.

On Friday, an American soldier died and five others were wounded as "the result of an indirect fire attack" on a base near Falluja, the U.S. military said.

In Al Anbar province, where Falluja and Ramadi are located, two U.S Marines were killed and four others wounded Thursday, a U.S. military spokesman said.

In the northern Iraqi city of Balad, a roadside bomb hit a U.S. military convoy Thursday night, killing one 1st Infantry Division soldier and wounding another, the U.S. military said.

The number of U.S. military fatalities in the war totals 1,128.

Karl Penhaul, a CNN correspondent embedded with Marines near Falluja, said C-130s could be heard attacking targets, probably with 105 mm cannons.

The major assault on Falluja is expected soon, so the region can be pacified before the January elections for a transitional national assembly.

The strikes are aimed at the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi network and other militants, who have a strong presence in the city 30 miles (48 kilometers) west of the Iraqi capital.

The assault is being planned at a camp outside the city, where Marines are rehearsing urban warfare. They are studying fighting techniques used in Vietnam in the 1960s, in the Israeli-occupied territories, Chechnya and Somalia.

Commanders said they expect to encounter booby-trapped buildings, roadside bombs, suicide car bombs and rooftop snipers.

Military officials said there are scores of mosques used as insurgent sniping positions, command and control posts, and combat clinics.

Marines will work to surprise the insurgents by moving in quickly with infantry, tanks and attack helicopters.

Marines estimate most residents of the city -- which once had a population of 250,000 -- have fled, and about 50,000 civilians are left.

It is believed that the city holds 2,000 to 5,000 insurgents, who communicate with cell phones, carrier pigeons and flags.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has voiced concern about a possible assault.

In a letter dated October 31, Annan warned the United States, Britain and Iraq that military offensives being planned for Falluja and other insurgent strongholds could jeopardize the upcoming elections.

He said he worries about the "negative impact that major military assaults, in which the main burden seems bound to be borne by American forces, are likely to have on the prospects for encouraging a broader participation by Iraqis in the political process, including in the elections."
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Post by Animale »

And the blood starts to flow... poor soldiers fighting a war that shouldn't have been waged.

Animale

p.s. Note the convenient timing of this offensive for after the election.
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Post by Rekaar. »

:roll:
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Post by Voronwë »

rolling eyes at the timing?

this offensive has been on hold for several weeks. i dont have a problem with this sort of military operation being put on hold for the election. It probably won't effect the outcome.

but a lot of marines are going to possibly die too, so before you put on your cheerleading outfit, probably want to consider the loss that our soldiers will be suffering.

i think the whole "whoo hoo - kick some ass" attitude about war is pretty ridiculous, but that's just me. its not a fucking game, people are going to get maimed and killed. i hope that the US marines do kick some ass, but i'm not really 'looking forward' to them having to go through what they might have to go through.

not saying that is what you guys are saying either, i just would caution people from cheerleading stuff like this as if we were playing a video game or watching football.
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Post by Shaerra »

THAT DAMNED BUSH IT'S ALL HIS FAULT DAMMIT I'M MOVING I'M NOT GONNA STAND FOR THIS MICHAEL MOORE IS A GOD SOMEBODY TELL ME THAT IT'S OK TO FEEL THIS WAY I AM SOMEBODY
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Post by Kaldaur »

I think I speak for everyone here, Shaerra, when I tell you...Michael Moore is not a god. Carry on.
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Post by Winnow »

It is believed that the city holds 2,000 to 5,000 insurgents, who communicate with cell phones, carrier pigeons and flags.
Sharpshooters should have taken those pigeons out long ago.
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Post by Voronwë »

our next generation smart bombs can literally fly up a pigeons ass they are so accurate.



downside is that the obliterate 4 square miles in addition to the pigeon, but hey :p
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Post by Aslanna »

Shaerra wrote:THAT DAMNED BUSH IT'S ALL HIS FAULT DAMMIT I'M MOVING I'M NOT GONNA STAND FOR THIS MICHAEL MOORE IS A GOD SOMEBODY TELL ME THAT IT'S OK TO FEEL THIS WAY I AM SOMEBODY
At least when Kyoukan uses all caps it's somewhat funny.
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Post by masteen »

Voronwë wrote:our next generation smart bombs can literally fly up a pigeons ass they are so accurate.



downside is that the obliterate 4 square miles in addition to the pigeon, but hey :p
You call that a downside?
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Post by Voronwë »

just makes strategic targeting of pickups with Jeff Gordon stickers that much more difficult

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Post by Rekaar. »

Voro I don't know how you read posts, but I read them sequentially =p

The timing was obviously to keep the casualty rate as low as possible to avoid the bad press. It would have been political suicide to mount a major attack weeks before an election and you know it.

One of the upsides to delaying the offensive is that "reinforcements" have been bolstering the terrorist ranks all this time. We can knock out that many more in one sweep.
Last edited by Rekaar. on November 5, 2004, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Winnow »

BE ON THE LOOKOUT!

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Post by Voronwë »

Rekaar. wrote:Voro I don't know how you read posts, but I read them sequentially =p

The timing was obviously to keep the casualty rate as low as possible to avoid the bad press. It would have been political suicide to mount a major attack weeks before an election and you know it.

One of the upsides to delaying the offensive is that "reinforcements" have been bolstering the terrorist ranks all this time. We can knock out that many more in one sweep.
i dont know how you read them either. i think i said it ddidnt bother me whetehr or not the election figured into the timetable at all =p
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but sometimes i dont read them at all!
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Post by Shaerra »

Everything is going to be ok. The Big Unit has been training to take out terrorist communications and is being sent to Iraq ASAP.

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:XE ... ideo&hl=en
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Post by Akaran_D »

That poor.. poor.. freaking bird...
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Post by noel »

Voronwë wrote:rolling eyes at the timing?

this offensive has been on hold for several weeks. i dont have a problem with this sort of military operation being put on hold for the election. It probably won't effect the outcome.

but a lot of marines are going to possibly die too, so before you put on your cheerleading outfit, probably want to consider the loss that our soldiers will be suffering.

i think the whole "whoo hoo - kick some ass" attitude about war is pretty ridiculous, but that's just me. its not a fucking game, people are going to get maimed and killed. i hope that the US marines do kick some ass, but i'm not really 'looking forward' to them having to go through what they might have to go through.

not saying that is what you guys are saying either, i just would caution people from cheerleading stuff like this as if we were playing a video game or watching football.
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Post by Winnow »

Shaerra wrote:Everything is going to be ok. The Big Unit has been training to take out terrorist communications and is being sent to Iraq ASAP.

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:XE ... ideo&hl=en
Direct hit!

BTW, what was the base runner on second thinking? He could have taken third easy!
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

Winnow wrote:
Shaerra wrote:Everything is going to be ok. The Big Unit has been training to take out terrorist communications and is being sent to Iraq ASAP.

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:XE ... ideo&hl=en
Direct hit!

BTW, what was the base runner on second thinking? He could have taken third easy!
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

Shaerra wrote:Everything is going to be ok. The Big Unit has been training to take out terrorist communications and is being sent to Iraq ASAP.

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:XE ... ideo&hl=en

Haha, you said Big Unit.
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Post by Niffoni »

Winnow wrote:BE ON THE LOOKOUT!

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Pidgeons always make me nervous... always hanging out in my garage talking about "coup, coup"

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Post by Boogahz »

What is scarier is that some of the first "smart" bombs were guided by the Suicidal-Pigeon squad!
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Post by Hesten »

Kaldaur wrote:I think I speak for everyone here, Shaerra, when I tell you...Michael Moore is not a god. Carry on.
Actually he do kinda resemble Buddha :). Body wise at least :)
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Post by Kelshara »

Let's go kick some ass! Who has the bodybags?
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Post by Winnow »

Don't worry, you liberals will have plenty of chances to scream bloody murder during this battle.

I just hope you do it in front of some veterans and get your ass beat.
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Post by Lynks »

Kelshara wrote:Let's go kick some ass! Who has the bodybags?
Fuck the bodybags, who has the camera to take pictures of dead Iraqi's in sexually positions!

Wooooo USA A OK!
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Post by Aslanna »

Winnow wrote:Don't worry, you liberals will have plenty of chances to scream bloody murder during this battle.

I just hope you do it in front of some veterans and get your ass beat.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm sure there are more than a few veterans that are wondering wtf we are doing in Iraq.
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Post by Marbus »

Personally I know a number of Vets that voted for Kerry because Bush is an idiot and is getting people killed in Iraq for no reason... they saw him as they did Johnson in the 60s. He wasn't there he didn't know what it was like... funny how those who were never actually IN a war are the biggest warmongers...

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Post by Cartalas »

Marbus wrote:Personally I know a number of Vets that voted for Kerry because Bush is an idiot and is getting people killed in Iraq for no reason... they saw him as they did Johnson in the 60s. He wasn't there he didn't know what it was like... funny how those who were never actually IN a war are the biggest warmongers...

Marb

Personally I know a number of vets who agree with what is going on in Iraq. And they voted for Bush because they new Kerry was a liberal pussy.
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Post by Winnow »

Aslanna wrote:
Winnow wrote:Don't worry, you liberals will have plenty of chances to scream bloody murder during this battle.

I just hope you do it in front of some veterans and get your ass beat.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm sure there are more than a few veterans that are wondering wtf we are doing in Iraq.
I'm sure there are some Vets questioning our actions but I'd bet the majority won't make asses of themselves while having reservations about it. I'd just hope liberals focus their whining at the administration and realize the common soldier isn't to blame and doesn't need the bullshit thrown their direction.
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Post by Lohrno »

Winnow wrote: I'm sure there are some Vets questioning our actions but I'd bet the majority won't make asses of themselves while having reservations about it. I'd just hope liberals focus their whining at the administration and realize the common soldier isn't to blame and doesn't need the bullshit thrown their direction.
Agreed. The military is like the government's gun. The face of our government changes from time to time. Sometimes that of a thug, and sometimes that of some hero. Guns don't kill people, I people do.

Right now the person wielding the gun is the ignorant thug though.

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Post by Spang »

Marbus wrote:Personally I know a number of Vets that voted for Kerry because Bush is an idiot and is getting people killed in Iraq for no reason... they saw him as they did Johnson in the 60s. He wasn't there he didn't know what it was like... funny how those who were never actually IN a war are the biggest warmongers...

Marb
i gained respect. let me rephrase, some respect for GW when he went to Iraq and served and ate food with the troops on thanksgiving during "the war" last year.

i never agreed with the whole Iraqi freedom thing though.

i think Bush won this election the same way Nixon won his reelection. if i'm right the war in iraq will end soon.
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Post by Kelshara »

i gained respect. let me rephrase, some respect for GW when he went to Iraq and served and ate food with the troops on thanksgiving during "the war" last year.
heh why? It was a well-planned political stunt.
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Post by Xzion »

If GW wanted my vote he would be a man, and not a coward and stand in the front lines with an AK-47 serving side by side by the men he commanded to die for war that most of our country is now against. As would every pro war person on this board shouting "YEEHAW LETS KICK SOME ASS YEEHAW LIBERAL PUSSIES HAHAHAHA GW 4 MORE!"
I dont see how a man can sleep at night, let alone live with himself after sending so many troops to there deaths while he is sitting in safety behind a cozy desk and a personal security arsenal.

I would support an amendment to the constitution similarly adressed as

-The president of the United States in the event of supporting a war will be forced to take place on every major battlefield that his undisclosed unit is assigned to. If the president is not physically fit to fight in such war, he will be forced to give his job to the vice president, or any other member below that within his cabinet to temporarily uphold the duty of the president to support his troops in war, at the event that the war comes to an end, the decision weather or not to retain the office of president will be held solely on the individual who took the place of the regular president on the battlefield. Understanding that the congress would be able to overide the desision to go to war, the president would not be forced to participate if he were to publicly stand out against the proposed war, in which case he can be questioned and at any hint of a "flip flop" the previous amendment would be instated.

This would separate the true believers from the cowards, warmongers, and those out for profit and personal gain in the presidential office. (all those descriptions fit either Bush or Cheney, the coward part fits both of them)

also, lets see how many vietnams or iraqs would take place in the future
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Post by Spang »

Kelshara wrote:
i gained respect. let me rephrase, some respect for GW when he went to Iraq and served and ate food with the troops on thanksgiving during "the war" last year.
heh why? It was a well-planned political stunt.
imagine being in a shithole country on thanksgiving in the middle of a war and your commander in chief walks into your DFAC and starts serving food and later sits down with you guys and eats and conversates with everyone around. he took time away from his family on a holiday to be with the troops.

arnold did the same thing over the 4th of july weekend when he was visiting camps all around kuwait and iraq. this was before his election.

i was ETS'd before thanksgiving but i was able to meet and shake hands with arnold. it might not seem like much to a civilian sitting at home, etc but it means a lot to the soldeirs that are away from their families for months at a time.

or maybe it's just me.
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Post by Seebs »

I'm a technical Project Leader and have resources working alkl hours of the night. I do not need to be here during that time. I do show up sometimes with pizza or some beer for those wroking late. Its not a stunt, it shows concern and empathy.

I swear, the hate spewed by republican opposition is both passive and blind. Spoiled rotten kids probably put in time-out.
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Post by Nick »

Foul calling foul.
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Post by Winnow »

Seebs wrote: I swear, the hate spewed by republican opposition is both passive and blind. Spoiled rotten kids probably put in time-out.
That's pretty much it for the bulk of the Bush hate on these boards. Impressionable, rebellious youth around college age, trying to find their identity that have found it easiest to jump on the Bush hate bandwagon to fit while making small talk at the bar.

The older people have no excuse for Bush bashing which is separate from addressing the issues!
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Post by Brotha »

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
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Post by Dregor Thule »

And any man who is quoting Churchill, 50 years after the fact, has no perspective.
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Post by Seebs »

Said the man quoting John Fucking Stewart.

Its irony day here at the ole VV boards!!
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Post by Forthe »

Liberating Iraq by destroying their cities one at a time, only to have to do it all over again (i.e. Samara). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the most probable end result of all this. We've seen it before.
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Post by Rekaar. »

Forthe wrote:Liberating Iraq by destroying their cities one at a time, only to have to do it all over again (i.e. Samara). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the most probable end result of all this. We've seen it before.
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Post by Brotha »

Interesting info:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041 ... -4865r.htm
Coalition troops are employing a divide-and-conquer strategy in Fallujah, Iraq, capitalizing on months of pinpointed intelligence to seal off terrorist-held neighborhoods and then attack enemy pockets.

"It's going to be going on for a period ahead," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said of the long-anticipated operation, which began Sunday.

A military source said the Pentagon expects the battle for Fallujah to take about one week and estimated there are about 2,000 to 5,000 enemy fighters, about half of whom are non-Iraqi.

The United States last entered Fallujah in April, when Marines killed hundreds of rebels. The Marines seemed to be on a path to capturing the town, when Iraqi politicians urged Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez to stop the battle or risk political upheaval.

"I cannot imagine that it would stop without being completed," Mr. Rumsfeld said of the current operation.

There was no word of whether master terrorist Abu Musab Zarqawi was in Fallujah, which has served as a command center for his cells of foreign terrorists who specialize in deadly suicide car bombings.

"From Fallujah, they have exported terror across Iraq against all Iraqis," said Army Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq.

Since April, American forces have stayed outside the city. But intelligence collection has proceeded at a furious pace. Military sources said the U.S. command has a block-by-block schematic of the large city and knows from day to day where the rebels live and plan. That is how coalition aircraft have been able to direct precision-guided weapons at specific buildings known to harbor rebels.

"They have mapped the city and are taking the city down by sections," said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney.

Mr. Rumsfeld yesterday assured reporters that "disciplined" U.S. troops will keep civilian deaths to a minimum.

"There aren't going to be large numbers of civilians killed, certainly not by U.S. forces," Mr. Rumsfeld said at the Pentagon. U.S. commanders think that at least half the city's estimated 300,000 residents has left Fallujah.

"The U.S. forces are disciplined," the defense secretary said. "They are well-led. They're well-trained. They are using precision. And they have rules of engagement that are appropriate to an urban environment."

Gen. McInerney, a Vietnam War fighter pilot, said his worry is that troops will be too cautious.

"If they worry too much about collateral damage, then you have to move slower," he said. "I would level any building that offers resistance. If you try to pick guys out of a building rather than just blowing it up, that's going to take longer. You run the risks of booby traps. You run the risk of losing people. ... We know this battle is against terrorists, and we must be ruthless in the way we destroy them."

The exact intelligence has enabled U.S. troops to assault the city at enemy strong points.

There is a hope that the precision strikes will lead to a quick victory against ragtag fighters who, while deadly, are no match for well-trained and equipped U.S. forces, whose night-vision goggles and sights give them a big advantage in the urban terrain.

The coalition's block-by-block data on Fallujah is pieced together by numerous reconnaissance flights, communications intercepts and Iraqi informants inside the city. Two unmanned aircraft, the Predator and Global Hawk, provide constant video and still pictures for planners to analyze.

Terrorists have increased the use of intimidation tactics and violence to prevent citizens from leaving the city or informing against them, military source said.

Gen. Casey told Pentagon reporters via a teleconference call that estimates of a 10,000 to 15,000 U.S. and coalition strike force, including Iraqis, were "in the ballpark."

Gen. Casey said the insurgents are armed with AK-47s, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and anti-aircraft machine guns, he said.

However, the most danger to advancing American and friendly Iraqi forces will be homemade car bombs from terrorists.

"The weapons of choice for them are going to be the improvised explosive devices and the car bombs," Gen. Casey said. "And all our intelligence is telling us that they have lined some of the streets with the improvised explosive devices, much like we saw in Najaf and Thawra."

Vehicles packed with explosives also have been placed throughout the city, and "we expect them to come at us with car bombs, you know, as they're driving through the city now," Gen. Casey said.

The Iraqi government, in response, has banned auto traffic inside Fallujah as a way to protect troops.

The insurgents are thought to have an "outer-crust defense" that likely will collapse "toward the center of the city where they will be probably a major confrontation," Gen. Casey said.

Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said some insurgents likely will try to blend into the civilian population.

"And that may make it harder in certain circumstances," said Gen. Myers, who appeared with Mr. Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. "There are also indications that they want to fight in a more conventional way."

Mr. Rumsfeld said he did not think the battle for Fallujah will be a final showdown with enemy forces in Iraq.

"These folks are determined. These are killers. They chop people's heads off. They're getting money from around the world. They're getting recruits," Mr. Rumsfeld said.

"And over time, you'll find that the process of tipping will take place; that more and more of the Iraqis will be angry about the fact that their innocent people are being killed by the extremists, saw a number of them from outside the country, and they won't like it."

Gen. Casey said some of the key insurgent leaders are expected to stay and fight, he said, while others will flee and regroup.

"Yes, they'll go off to other places and try to get set up, but when they're doing that, they have to look over their shoulder, they have to worry about who's at the door, they have to put guards out all the time," he said.
Freedom of speech makes it much easier to spot the idiots.
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Revs
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Post by Revs »

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Lohrno
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Post by Lohrno »

Winnow wrote: That's pretty much it for the bulk of the Bush hate on these boards. Impressionable, rebellious youth around college age, trying to find their identity that have found it easiest to jump on the Bush hate bandwagon to fit while making small talk at the bar.

The older people have no excuse for Bush bashing which is separate from addressing the issues!
That's not it at all.

Let's see:

Environmental Record:
Not Stellar

Domestic Issues:
Bad. His admin uses the constitution for toilet paper.

Foreign Policy/Diplomacy:
I have come to the conclusion that he actively hates America. Never have we alienated the world in general like this.

Economic:
Inconclusive as of yet.

Public Speaking:
Good lord, I think the only politician worse than he in this dept. is Dan Quayle.

You see when you think about all that he's done, it's hard to make the case that he's a great president...If you are logical minded, you think about all this and come to a conclusion.

-=Lohrno
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Post by Kelshara »

Seebs wrote:I'm a technical Project Leader and have resources working alkl hours of the night. I do not need to be here during that time. I do show up sometimes with pizza or some beer for those wroking late. Its not a stunt, it shows concern and empathy.

I swear, the hate spewed by republican opposition is both passive and blind. Spoiled rotten kids probably put in time-out.
You have something to gain from it, just like Bush had something to gain from it. If you think he gives a shit about the average soldier in Iraq, you or me then you are extremely naive and sorely mistaken.
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Post by Spang »

how do you know this? does he call you at home?
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Umm...not be baited too masterly but surely you accept the "Bush hating train" has a couple of good reasons for said hate...

Or do you deny the human rights violations, international relation shattering and general reactionary lunacy?

Not that a country taking a strong defensive stance is evil in itself, more the sickening hypocrisy and blatant spin (thats lying to you and me).

However, maybe I am just a liberal pussy, whatever the fuck that is.
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