VeeshanVault

Bush ask him " Hey! why the long face"

You be here all week?

I heard Kerry requested a purple heart for falling off his bike and scraping his knee the other day...any truth to this?

The irony of that comment is all the fuss that was made about Bush falling off his bike not long ago

Brotha wrote:I heard Kerry requested a purple heart for falling off his bike and scraping his knee the other day...any truth to this?

Hi...when's the last time you were injured by enemy fire in defense of this country?... ...

Well his feelings get hurt every time he tries to debate something.. does that count?

Brotha wrote:I heard Kerry requested a purple heart for falling off his bike and scraping his knee the other day...any truth to this?

dunno, but bush managed to fall off a fucking segway. You know, the thing that is gyroscopically balanced so that you can't fall off....

They're actually easy to fall off of when you are getting on them for the first time. The "mount" is the only hard part about using them.

Well, what can i say, at least Kerry was in a war zone, no matter what you believe what happened on that day. Bush was not. Should we try to give Bush a Purple Heart for almost choking on a pretzel?

Kerry sobs for a papercut, and Bush almost goes down to a fucking prezel. No wonder you need the secret service =D

maybe the pretzle was from a terrorist ....

Arborealus wrote:

Brotha wrote:I heard Kerry requested a purple heart for falling off his bike and scraping his knee the other day...any truth to this?

Hi...when's the last time you were injured by enemy fire in defense of this country?... ...

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Bush supporters that make fun of Kerrys war record are fuckin whacked, especially when Bush himself dodges the Vietnam war by going into the national guard and then goes fuckin AWOL while in it.

If someone wants to disagree with Kerry’s politics or views that’s fine, but when bitch asses attack him for gettin purple hearts that’s some bullshit. Especially when the most war action they ever saw was a drunken night of watching Full Metal Jacket.

Brittney wrote:

Arborealus wrote:

Brotha wrote:I heard Kerry requested a purple heart for falling off his bike and scraping his knee the other day...any truth to this?

Hi...when's the last time you were injured by enemy fire in defense of this country?... ...

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Bush supporters that make fun of Kerrys war record are fuckin whacked, especially when Bush himself dodges the Vietnam war by going into the national guard and then goes fuckin AWOL while in it.

If someone wants to disagree with Kerry’s politics or views that’s fine, but when bitch asses attack him for gettin purple hearts that’s some bullshit. Especially when the most war action they ever saw was a drunken night of watching Full Metal Jacket.

I'm glad you think that by going to Vietnam Kerry was defending America Arb...kind of a surprising view from you though.

And you all have never been president. Why do you think you can arm chair quarterback and criticize Bush all the fucking time? If I seriously tried to use that as a reason for you not to attack Bush you'd probably laugh it off, which is what I'm going to do with your weak defense of Kerry. Kerry's service in Vietnam would not be scrutinized like this if he hadn't of made it an issue himself by making it basically his sole qualification to be commander in chief. Can you off the top of your head tell me an issue he's led on in his 20 years in the senate? I didn't think so. Furthermore, his traitorous actions and his attacks on his "band of brothers" after returning home revoked any "free pass" he may have earned for a service that was for the most part honorable.

they recalled segways before because of a bug that would make them fall foward.

Brotha wrote:I'm glad you think that by going to Vietnam Kerry was defending America Arb...kind of a surprising view from you though.

I love this.. we're supposed to support our troops in Iraq, but they're not defending America.. But you're making a fuss about someone supporting a soldier that served his country in Vietnam? Priceless.

Brotha wrote:And you all have never been president. Why do you think you can arm chair quarterback and criticize Bush all the fucking time?

Perhaps because his fuckups affect an entire nation and quite frequently, the rest of the globe?

If anyone had a right to protest the war it was someone that spent time there.

Siji wrote:I love this.. we're supposed to support our troops in Iraq, but they're not defending America.. But you're making a fuss about someone supporting a soldier that served his country in Vietnam? Priceless.

What's priceless is how unbelievably far over your head that just went.

Siji wrote:Perhaps because his fuckups affect an entire nation and quite frequently, the rest of the globe?

That makes no sense whatsoever and doesn't at all address the point I just brought up. So now we can't criticize anything in Kerry's past that didn't affect us? That's a rhetorical question by the way...please don't bother responding to it with another reply that may as well be in hieroglyphics for all the fucking sense it makes.

Brotha wrote:I'm glad you think that by going to Vietnam Kerry was defending America Arb...kind of a surprising view from you though.

The military personnel involved in a conflict are for the most part there in belief that they are defending the US...Questions regarding the legitimacy of the conflict reflect on the administration(s) initiating and/or perpetuating the conflict...

And you all have never been president. Why do you think you can arm chair quarterback and criticize Bush all the fucking time?

Because every good citizen should question the actions of his government...how else would we avoid the rise to power of another Hitler?...You clearly are not capable of questioning authority, I'm sorry...

Furthermore, his traitorous actions and his attacks on his "band of brothers" after returning home revoked any "free pass" he may have earned for a service that was for the most part honorable.

Errrmmm traitorous?...Was he tried for treason or even accused of it?...The oath one takes as a member of our armed forces is to uphold and defend the constitution, not the military or current administration there is a reason that specific wording is used...Yes they agree to follow the orders of the commander in chief for the duration of their service (which Kerry did)...It does not obligate one to obey the unquestioningly in perpetuity said commander in chief...Nor does the oath mention that they must agree with the orders...

I would certainly contend that trying to get your friends/squad/the entire country etc the hell out of a senseless conflict is loyalty to them on the highest level...Disagreement with and protesting the policies of a president's administration is hardly traitorous...In fact it's the duty of a citizen...

Arborealus wrote: The oath one takes as a member of our armed forces is to uphold and defend the constitution, not the military or current administration there is a reason that specific wording is used...Yes they agree to follow the orders of the commander in chief for the duration of their service (which Kerry did)...It does not obligate one to obey the unquestioningly in perpetuity said commander in chief...Nor does the oath mention that they must agree with the orders...

Here is the oath verbatim:

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."

Notice... I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me...

This means that you obey orders from all officers appointed over you. Period. With the caveat that they are lawful orders according to the regulations of the particular branch of service and most importantly the UCMJ.

You are right, you don't have to agree with orders, but that is irrelevent. When a lawful order is given, you opinion or disagreement mean absolutely nothing. You follow the orders or you pay the consequences.

When Kerry protested he was no better than the people who spit on soldiers returning from Vietnam. I'd say worse. Although sitting on a boat receiving occasional pot shots is a much different situation from the people who were in the thick of the war in Vietnam.

Aruman wrote:

Arborealus wrote: The oath one takes as a member of our armed forces is to uphold and defend the constitution, not the military or current administration there is a reason that specific wording is used...Yes they agree to follow the orders of the commander in chief for the duration of their service (which Kerry did)...It does not obligate one to obey the unquestioningly in perpetuity said commander in chief...Nor does the oath mention that they must agree with the orders...

Here is the oath verbatim:

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."

Notice... I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me...

This means that you obey orders from all officers appointed over you. Period. With the caveat that they are lawful orders according to the regulations of the particular branch of service and most importantly the UCMJ.

Which he did during through his discharge as I have said...If he hadn't he would have been brought before a court martial...Esspecially given the political climate of the time...

When Kerry protested he was no better than the people who spit on soldiers returning from Vietnam. I'd say worse.

Ummm ok that's just nonsense...Protesting the policies of an administration is not comparable to blaming the individual soldiers...

Kerry's service in Vietnam would not be scrutinized like this if he hadn't of made it an issue himself by making it basically his sole qualification to be commander in chief

What qualifications did Dubya have for that role before coming to office?

And re

a few potshots

Here pdfs of the actual purple heart, silver star and bronze star commendations...Note no one is complaining about the silver and bronze star commendations nor mentioning them?...

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jker ... hearts.pdf

For wounds received in action on Dec. 2, 1968, Feb. 20, 1969, and Mar. 17, 1969

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jker ... erstar.pdf

For displaying "courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism" while acting as the Officer in Charge of a Tactical Command on Feb. 28, 1969.

...it goes on to talk about heavy small arms fire, rockets close aboard etc...

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jker ... zestar.pdf

For "professionalism, great personal courage under fire, and complete dedication to duty" in rescuing, while wounded, a man overboard following a mine explosion, directing his gunners to provide supporting fire for the rescue, and towing a damaged boat to safety under enemy fire on March 13, 1969

...apparently he lost a crew member overboard when a mine exploded close aboard...went bac picked the crewmember up and continued to provide supporting fire while towing a second fast attack boat which had struck another mine all while taking small arms fire from the bank...



Sorry bout the pdfs they are actually photocopies apparently...

Now I wasn't there...then again neither were any of us...but ya know I have been shot at twice and heading towards the guys shooting is no small achievement...I ran like hell personally...

So all you idiots talking about potshots etc please pull out your commendations for bravery under fire...Or shut the fuck up...

By the way http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/e ... /docs.html has both candidates complete military records...personnel casualty reports etc if you'd like to read the specifics of his injuries etc...

Does any of this make him substantially more fit to be commander in chief...Not in my estimation...I think its a non-issue honestly...But the guy was shot at numerous times while serving his country...Devaluing that devalues every veteran's contribution and like the war or not they were there for us...

And ya know...if you think about it...these commendations were issued prior to his entry into politics...They were clearly not issued with political intent but relatively objectively...Those devaluing them clearly do have a political agenda...nicht wahr?

Arborealus... does the term template mean anything to you?

If you would bother taking a read through different peoples awards, you would start noticing quite a few similarities in the wording and language of different peoples awards citations, particular to the award received.

As far as devaluing the service of other soldiers... let me clarify:

I'm not denigrating Kerry's service. I'm disgusted by his actions after he left.

His awards have nothing to do with what he did after he was discharged, which apparently he asked for.

He didn't take issue strictly with the government for the Vietnam War. John Kerry did everything he could to put down and use the US service member to further his political ambitions.

Now, in all honesty, the following links may have their own rhetorical content, but some of the information disgusts me on a personal level.

It would be to Kerry's benefit to comment on some of the information presented, or is it that he is afraid to, for fear of hurting his election bid.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnke ... page2.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 1219.shtml

Aruman wrote:Arborealus... does the term template mean anything to you?

If you would bother taking a read through different peoples awards, you would start noticing quite a few similarities in the wording and language of different peoples awards citations, particular to the award received.

Show me one with the same content please...I understand the parts which are boiler plate...clearly I posted those in refeerence to your stating:

Although sitting on a boat receiving occasional pot shots is a much different situation from the people who were in the thick of the war in Vietnam.

Which clearly is an attack on his actions in Vietnam...Unless someone else snuck in and edited that post...I'm callling bullshit...

vn_Tanc wrote:What qualifications did Dubya have for that role before coming to office?

Oo! Oo! I know! I know!

Wait.. no I don't. It must have been the way his business endeavors failed. Every. Time. But he made a lot of money from them. Every. Time.

Drasta wrote:maybe the pretzle was from a terrorist ....

haha

Arborealus wrote:

Aruman wrote:Arborealus... does the term template mean anything to you?

If you would bother taking a read through different peoples awards, you would start noticing quite a few similarities in the wording and language of different peoples awards citations, particular to the award received.

Show me one with the same content please...I understand the parts which are boiler plate...clearly I posted those in refeerence to your stating:

Although sitting on a boat receiving occasional pot shots is a much different situation from the people who were in the thick of the war in Vietnam.

Which clearly is an attack on his actions in Vietnam...Unless someone else snuck in and edited that post...I'm callling bullshit...

Potshots is just a generic term for long range shots... has nothing to do with attacking him.

Excuse me for making a distinction between the combat arms (infantry) who get up close and personal with the people shooting at them, and someone out on a boat in the middle of a river or whatever.

Let me make it clearer...

The infantry get close enough to see the whites of the enemies eyes... Kerry saw muzzle flashes if he was lucky.

That distinction doesn't make it an attack on Kerry, it's just a fact.

Aruman wrote:

Arborealus wrote:

Aruman wrote:Arborealus... does the term template mean anything to you?

If you would bother taking a read through different peoples awards, you would start noticing quite a few similarities in the wording and language of different peoples awards citations, particular to the award received.

Show me one with the same content please...I understand the parts which are boiler plate...clearly I posted those in refeerence to your stating:

Although sitting on a boat receiving occasional pot shots is a much different situation from the people who were in the thick of the war in Vietnam.

Which clearly is an attack on his actions in Vietnam...Unless someone else snuck in and edited that post...I'm callling bullshit...

Potshots is just a generic term for long range shots... has nothing to do with attacking him.

Excuse me for making a distinction between the combat arms (infantry) who get up close and personal with the people shooting at them, and someone out on a boat in the middle of a river or whatever.

Let me make it clearer...

The infantry get close enough to see the whites of the enemies eyes... Kerry saw muzzle flashes if he was lucky.

That distinction doesn't make it an attack on Kerry, it's just a fact.

Heh ok...And characterizing the language in the commendations as template was not intended to devalue his commendations...Those are all pretty clearly derogatory implications...

Imply/Deny/Imply/Deny...Damn man...you need to get a job writing Bush's speeches...

No Arborealus... it's called your interpretation of my words.

You have a fixed mindset, and when someone writes something that even hints at being derogatory, even when it isn't, you get rabid.

At least that's what I am seeing.

You brought up the issue of the awards.

I was just pointing something out about how those particular types of awards were done.

<Award header> <date>

Insert <service members name an unit information>

<insert circumstances>

Generic wording relating to the service member's organization and said servicemember's outstanding service.

Given on this day by my hand....

Signed by whomever

You could put any persons name in that, and the circumstances...

Aruman wrote:No Arborealus... it's called your interpretation of my words.

You have a fixed mindset, and when someone writes something that even hints at being derogatory, even when it isn't, you get rabid.

At least that's what I am seeing.

You brought up the issue of the awards.

I was just pointing something out about how those particular types of awards were done.

<Award header> <date>

Insert <service members name an unit information>

<insert circumstances>

Generic wording relating to the service member's organization and said servicemember's outstanding service.

Given on this day by my hand....

Signed by whomever

You could put any persons name in that, and the circumstances...

Man your words were crystal clear... you just don't want to own em now...

I own them just fine.

Why would I want to berate Kerry over his awards? I wasn't there, so who am I to judge?

My main issue with him are his actions after Vietnam. Instead of taking issue with the government, Kerry chose to malign the soldiers also.

I will say this, and note that these actions are after he was discharged:

If his decorations meant that much to him, he sure wouldn't have been throwing decorations during those anti-war demonstrations. Those actions malign the sacrifices of every service member who was decorated due to actions in Vietnam and other conflicts.

Brotha, Metanis et al
answer this question directly

Do you believe that NO american soldier has ever commited WAR CRIMES in VIETNAM? (yes/no)

Brotha debating with Arb is like a peanut debating with Plato.