VeeshanVault

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 1:41 pm**

Aslanna wrote:
Personally I could care less if his little spiel was anti-war or pro-war. It was just the wrong place and the wrong time. Glad he did it before Bowling came out on DVD. Now I don't have to buy it. Yay personal boycotts!

Dont Buy it DL it Stick a Gay porn in the middle of it and upload it back onto WinMX

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 1:58 pm**

I find that hollywoodhalfwits site hilarious.

If questioning government policy is "Anti-American," I'd like to ask you to open your history books to the mid 1700s and look up such characters as George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Samuel Adams, etc, etc.

But maybe your "Great American Hero" is Joseph McCarthy. To each their own, I guess.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 1:59 pm**

JACKASS Slansin!!

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 2:06 pm**

miir wrote: Oscar Night is a television show.
It's supposed to be entertainment.
Michael Moore spouting an anti war message was, by far, the most entertaining moment of an exceptionaly boring program.

Him getting booed off the stage was he most entertaining part of the show.

I could give a shit if he's pro or con. That didn't help his cause one bit.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 2:20 pm**

one of my favorite michael moore moments from his show TV Nation: taking a group of former smokers who had lost their voice boxes due to throat cancer, and having them sing christmas carols through electric voice modulaters held to their throats outside the Phillip Morris Chrimstmas party.
just thought i would share.

&

pets or meat

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 2:25 pm**

rhyae wrote:one of my favorite michael moore moments from his show TV Nation: taking a group of former smokers who had lost their voice boxes due to throat cancer, and having them sing christmas carols through electric voice modulaters held to their throats outside the Phillip Morris Chrimstmas party.
just thought i would share.

&

pets or meat

You mean the same people that chose to Smoke their whole entire life.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 2:28 pm**

it's still funny
though my ex, who smoked, didn't think so.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 2:32 pm**

Cartalas wrote:
rhyae wrote:one of my favorite michael moore moments from his show TV Nation: taking a group of former smokers who had lost their voice boxes due to throat cancer, and having them sing christmas carols through electric voice modulaters held to their throats outside the Phillip Morris Chrimstmas party.
just thought i would share.

&

pets or meat

You mean the same people that chose to Smoke their whole entire life.

You seem to forget that 20-30 years ago, the effects of smoking wern't as widely known as they are today. I'm pretty positive that the tobbaco industry knew even back then what smoking did to a person but chose to disregard those facts anyways.

Isn't it a fact that back in the 50-60's tobacco companies used to say that smoking was GOOD for you?

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 2:48 pm**

Animalor wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
rhyae wrote:one of my favorite michael moore moments from his show TV Nation: taking a group of former smokers who had lost their voice boxes due to throat cancer, and having them sing christmas carols through electric voice modulaters held to their throats outside the Phillip Morris Chrimstmas party.
just thought i would share.

&

pets or meat

You mean the same people that chose to Smoke their whole entire life.
You seem to forget that 20-30 years ago, the effects of smoking wern't as widely known as they are today. I'm pretty positive that the tobbaco industry knew even back then what smoking did to a person but chose to disregard those facts anyways.

Isn't it a fact that back in the 50-60's tobacco companies used to say that smoking was GOOD for you?

I can see your point there, Im sure people back in the 50's thought sticking there lips on a tailpipe and sucking was healthy. How stupid to people have to be to believe the Tobacco companies. I think the Tobacco companies were wrong but there is some sort of personal accountability here.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 3:06 pm**

Voronwë wrote:what Michael Moore did was totally unprofessional.

for one, he called the other documentary filmmakers up there in some feign to say "we all are the winners",

then he uses them to buffet his own personal political opinion.

Apparently it was all pre-planned; no matter who won the winner was going to deliver an anti-war speech with the rest of the nominees up on stage.

I'm not sure what you mean by unprofessional.. He isn't a professional award winner and speech giver.. he is a liberal activist who makes money on his opinion.

edit: moore's major mistake was attacking the president, not the president's war. that is why he got booed off. a lot of people that disagree with the president still don't dislike him, and many more don't agree that he was illegally elected.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 3:12 pm**

Cartalas wrote:I think the Tobacco companies were wrong but there is some sort of personal accountability here.

Agreed.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 3:23 pm**

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Voronwë wrote:what Michael Moore did was totally unprofessional.

for one, he called the other documentary filmmakers up there in some feign to say "we all are the winners",

then he uses them to buffet his own personal political opinion.
Apparently it was all pre-planned; no matter who won the winner was going to deliver an anti-war speech with the rest of the nominees up on stage.

I'm not sure what you mean by unprofessional.. He isn't a professional award winner and speech giver.. he is a liberal activist who makes money on his opinion.

edit: moore's major mistake was attacking the president, not the president's war. that is why he got booed off. a lot of people that disagree with the president still don't dislike him, and many more don't agree that he was illegally elected.

yeah if it was pre-arranged, then i will take back what i said.

was just my basic reaction.

i would hazard to guess that, it was not universally agreed upon to do the protest in that manner though, but that is irrelevant.

i still think that Michael Moore is principally self-serving though.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 3:29 pm**

Here's a nugget off msn.com's Oscar coverage...

msn.com wrote: Most Polarizing Moment: Everyone knew outspoken filmmaker Michael Moore was going to speak his mind if Bowling for Columbine won Best Documentary, and he didn't disappoint, despite a mixed reaction from the crowd. "I've invited my fellow nominees on the stage with us, and they are here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time when we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president," said Moore, who was greeted with both booing and cheering. "We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons, whether it's the fictition (sic) of duct tape or the fictition (sic) of orange alerts, we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush! Shame on you!"

Best Off-the-Cuff Remark, Part 2: Host Steve Martin, returning to the stage following Moore's speech, telling the crowd: "It's so sweet backstage. I wish you could all see it. The Teamsters are helping Michael

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 3:48 pm**

The Teamsters are helping Michael Moore into the trunk of his limo

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 7:13 pm**

Only deserving Oscar movies i can think of that won best picture

Gladiator
Braveheart
Godfather-1 and 2...
cant think of anything else, probrably 1 or 2 more but i just cant think of them atm

basically if you make a lifetime movie with good production values or some shitty brodway musical backed by some big people youl be all set

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 7:32 pm**

Millie- stop playing ignorant. I'm not trying to challenge anyone's first amendment rights or whatever, I even said it's fine at certain places/times.

Slansis- the point of the site is not to call them anti american (although some of the fringe comments really are), the point is to show some of the ridiciulously ignorant stuff that people from Hollywood spew, which I for one got a good laugh out of.

Personally I thought Michael Moore made a fool of himself (if you disagree with me STFU, anything you say will be anti american!!

). At the luncheon the day before he said pretty much the same thing and got almost all cheers, I'm sure he was dissapointed this time, poor baby =(.

Brody's speech really moved me.

When I saw Susan Sarandon it looked obvious to me that she thought she was some sort of special celebrity, that because of her anti war views she was truly someone important. I'm sure she's going to be dissapointed one day too =(.

Here's a quote from the outspoken genius we know as Susan Sarandon:

“This [war] is about business, the business of distracting American attention from Enron and Haliburton, the financial scandals that directly connect this administration to the heart of what is now wrong with the American economy.”

I think UFOs would have been a better reason...but Enron and Haliburton work too.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 8:09 pm**

Actually, I think that's a very good reason.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 8:11 pm**

Gotta step in and get Slansins back and give him mad props. Some of you like to sit here and talk shit about anyone that voices their anti-war opinion and tag them as Anti-American and then when you get called out on it you just turn and say "Oh I'm not against people voicing their opinions I'm just against it when they do it in any sort of public arena what so ever." Give me a fuckin break, that is just some straight up bullshit right there. Then you homos try to turn it all around by making some half assed sarcastic remark like "Personally I thought Michael Moore made a fool of himself (if you disagree with me STFU, anything you say will be anti american!!)" in a piss poor attempt to try and make it sound like you are the poor innocent guy that's being told to stfu for voicing their opinion. The shit some of you people say is so filled with hypocrisy and bullshit that it's impossible to even begin to point it all out.

Saying someone is Anti-American for voicing their opinion about a course of action their country is taking is completely ignorant. There is no wrong time or place to voice your opinion about something you believe in. The only Anti-American people are those who would try to silence another's opinions because of their own views.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 8:24 pm**

hold me

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 8:38 pm**

Brittney wrote: Then you homos try to turn it all around by making some half assed sarcastic remark like "Personally I thought Michael Moore made a fool of himself (if you disagree with me STFU, anything you say will be anti american!!)" in a piss poor attempt to try and make it sound like you are the poor innocent guy that's being told to stfu for voicing their opinion.

homos!1!!1!?

I'll clarify what I think. Oscar night isn't a place for political opinions of anykind. Pro war or con. I don't want to hear about the war when I'm watching a show about the entertainment business. We hear plenty about the war and politics elsewhere. Speechs should stay on topic. I don't want to hear about the war...I don't want to hear about cruelty to animals, I don't want to hear about the environment during the academy awards or other enterainment award shows.

That said. This subject ranks about a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 on things that annoy me. Not a big deal.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 9:19 pm**

Werd Winnow, I can see your point but when it comes to getting your opinion heard what better place then on a show where 30 million people are watching? But I can totally see how people would find that annoying. In any case I was pretty entertained when he went up there and and said what he had to say and half the people cheered him and half the people booed him... I was rollin hehe.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 9:35 pm**

I never called him Anti-American. Find a time where I said anyone who voices an opinion against the war is anti american...thanks.

The sarcastic comment was about how anytime I point out the hypocrisy of an arguement or mention how there's a time and a place for protesting, I'm suddenly labled as a Mccarthyite (sp) and get indignant responses like Millie's or Slansis' accusing me of trying to infringe on their god given consitution guaranteed right of free speech! You can post whatever you want and Moore can say all the stuff he wants- it's your right. It's also my right to be able to change the channel or point out how stupid the shit you say is.

Posted: **March 24, 2003, 11:09 pm**

aww cmon that oscar was a peice of shit, you have to admit he was the best part of the show!

Voice your opinions where you want to, doesnt mean anyone will listen to you or care, but if your getting pissed off at that shit then Brittney has a point, if you think there making a dumbass outa themselfs like i thought he was, you just laugh at them!

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:11 am**

I liked it when they started playing music then lower the microphone to cut people off. To me personally, it just amuses me when they basically start yelling and follow the mike down to the ground..

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 2:35 am**

Cartalas wrote:And you wont see Michael Moore have much of a career after that either.

Michael Moore is repped by Ari Emanuel, who is easily one of the most powerful agents in Hollywood. I'm pretty sure he'll manage.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 2:37 am**

Brotha wrote:I'm suddenly labled as a Mccarthyite (sp) and get indignant responses like Millie's or Slansis' accusing me of trying to infringe on their god given consitution guaranteed right of free speech

That's probably because you posted about 3 or 4 times on this thread to that effect. I'm sure you wouldn't be bitching up a shit storm if some actor got up there and made an off-the-cuff speech about how wonderful George W. Bush is.

If you are against using the Oscars as a political platform, you have to be against both pro- and anti-war political speeches at the awards. You have to enforce it both ways.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 2:48 am**

I'm sure you wouldn't be bitching up a shit storm if some actor got up there and made an off-the-cuff speech about how wonderful George W. Bush is.

I would. Well, I wouldn't bitch about it but I'd find it just as inappropriate.

And was it off-the-cuff or scripted? I'm so confused.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 3:08 am**

Aslanna wrote:
I'm sure you wouldn't be bitching up a shit storm if some actor got up there and made an off-the-cuff speech about how wonderful George W. Bush is.

I would. Well, I wouldn't bitch about it but I'd find it just as inappropriate.

And was it off-the-cuff or scripted? I'm so confused.

I'm pretty sure it was half and half. Moore planned to say his piece when he accepted his award. But the words themselves were probably only half prepared.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 3:12 am**

Would have liked to have gotten to this thread earlier, but...

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 6:13 am**

Conservative. Generally agree with the war (though the sinple statement from Bush - "I have good evidence of illegal WoMD, but I cannot reveal the eveidence because it might compromise the source" would have really gone a long way). Thinks Moore's comments were both appropriate and expected, even though I don't agree with them.

It is exceptionally weak to argue the motives for a person's opnion. It generally just means you can;t come up with a rational reason to argue against them. It's really no different from the "you're a racist" BS fed to any white who disagrees with Affirmative Action.

Moore really did not deserve the Oscar though. BfC was funny in parts and disturbing in parts, but unlike RaM, it really lacked a point. If you think it was anti-gun, you should go rewatch it. At best it was "Americans should not own guns. I am not really sure why, but I think it has something to do with fear." I really learned very little from the film. The NRA is singleminded and incosiderate. Big shock. Uneducated peope say stupid things. Another big shock and one that Leno does as good a job illustrating. I guess I did learn that Canadian's don't lock their doors. /shrug. The film was meandering and controdictory, but punctuated with exceptionally funny moments. The truely disturbing moments took little to no effort by Moore and could have been pasted together by anyone from news footage over the last decade (excepting the K-Mart section.

/agree everything said about Chicago. I enjoyed the music and even the performances, much more than I did the Broadway show, but still, very weak for an Oscar contender.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 10:13 am**

Millie wrote:
Cartalas wrote:And you wont see Michael Moore have much of a career after that either.
Michael Moore is repped by Ari Emanuel, who is easily one of the most powerful agents in Hollywood. I'm pretty sure he'll manage.

Im sure it wont make a dent in his wallet but I will not purchase shit from him ever.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 10:14 am**

Sylvus wrote:Would have liked to have gotten to this thread earlier, but...

And the picture proves what?

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 11:01 am**

That more doctors smoke Camels. Phear the camel dollars@

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 11:17 am**

Gurugurumaki wrote:That more doctors smoke Camels. Phear the camel dollars@

No the picture says "Hey Doctors Smoke" It dosent say "Hey if a Doctor smokes it must be ok"

I saw a Doctor racing down the freeway at 120mph It must be safe then.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 11:20 am**

Cartalas wrote:No the picture says "Hey Doctors Smoke" It dosent say "Hey if a Doctor smokes it must be ok"

I saw a Doctor racing down the freeway at 120mph It must be safe then.

No I think it just wants people to know Ub3r doctors smoke only Camels...care to pharm? Was the doctor advertising his speed when driving 120mph?

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 11:25 am**

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/prin ... 68,00.html

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 11:42 am**

I own three AK-47s, some Kalashnikovs, an M-16, and a missile launcher. I use them to hunt deer.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 11:54 am**

Millie wrote:I own three AK-47s, some Kalashnikovs, an M-16, and a missile launcher. I use them to hunt deer.

To hunt wabbits?

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:08 pm**

Cartalas wrote:
Gurugurumaki wrote:That more doctors smoke Camels. Phear the camel dollars@

No the picture says "Hey Doctors Smoke" It dosent say "Hey if a Doctor smokes it must be ok"

I saw a Doctor racing down the freeway at 120mph It must be safe then.

cart: you honestly can't have that simplistic of a view on that poster.

i assume you are just trying to be argumentative here, but you've picked a bad example and should drop it.

i'll throw out some words for you: implication, association, PRODUCT PLACEMENT

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:12 pm**

cart: you honestly can't have that simplistic of a view on that poster

What odds are you offering? I might be interested in a wager

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:15 pm**

Millie wrote:I own three AK-47s, some Kalashnikovs, an M-16, and a missile launcher. I use them to hunt deer.

You sir, are what's wrong with America!

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:17 pm**

Voronwë wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Gurugurumaki wrote:That more doctors smoke Camels. Phear the camel dollars@

No the picture says "Hey Doctors Smoke" It dosent say "Hey if a Doctor smokes it must be ok"

I saw a Doctor racing down the freeway at 120mph It must be safe then.
cart: you honestly can't have that simplistic of a view on that poster.

i assume you are just trying to be argumentative here, but you've picked a bad example and should drop it.

i'll throw out some words for you: implication, association, PRODUCT PLACEMENT

Your Right I just get sick and tired of noone being held accountable for there own actions. I think the Tobacco industry was wrong but so are the weak minded people that belive them.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:17 pm**

Cartalas wrote:No the picture says "Hey Doctors Smoke" It dosent say "Hey if a Doctor smokes it must be ok"

Oh please, I'm sure you're being intentionally obtuse for the sake of argument, but that is exactly what the picture is saying.

If that ad had wanted to portray how cool smoking was it would have had that hip, young James Dean in it. If they wanted to show it being sexy they would have had Marilyn Monroe in it. As it is, they put a doctor in it to (mis)lead people to believe that it wasn't unhealthy.

Perhaps a lesson in inductive reasoning is in order.
Observation: Doctors are the authority on health.
Observation: Doctors smoke.
Observation: More doctors smoke CAMELS than any other cigarette.
Conclusion: Here is where this demonstration becomes interactive, go ahead and see if you can come up with the answer...

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:21 pm**

Sylvus wrote:
Cartalas wrote:No the picture says "Hey Doctors Smoke" It dosent say "Hey if a Doctor smokes it must be ok"
Oh please, I'm sure you're being intentionally obtuse for the sake of argument, but that is exactly what the picture is saying.

If that ad had wanted to portray how cool smoking was it would have had that hip, young James Dean in it. If they wanted to show it being sexy they would have had Marilyn Monroe in it. As it is, they put a doctor in it to (mis)lead people to believe that it wasn't unhealthy.

Perhaps a lesson in inductive reasoning is in order.
Observation: Doctors are the authority on health.
Observation: Doctors smoke.
Observation: More doctors smoke CAMELS than any other cigarette.
Conclusion: Here is where this demonstration becomes interactive, go ahead and see if you can come up with the answer...

Here is my take on it!

Hmm look James Dean smokes wow I might look cool if I smoke, and look Doctors do it too so it must be safe. Ok im gonna light up, hmmm noone will get close to me because my breath smells like a ashtray and my clothes stink, and you know what I cant run now without getting winded maybe these Camels are bad.

That is the point im trying to make.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:26 pm**

To use a contemporary analogy, think about the cell phone. For a short period of time, there were concerns that cell phones may cause brain tumors. Since then, doctors and scientists have come out and said that the use of cell phones is safe and will not cause cancer. What if, say in 30 years, the doctors are proven wrong? Will it be my fault that I got cancer, simply because I listened to those people who devote their lives to studying the body and what is good for it or harmful to it?

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:31 pm**

If they are wrong? Not your fault, maybe, but not theirs or the cell phone manufacuters, distributors, carriers, etc.

If, on the other hand, it turns out they knew it caused cancer all along but lied to you, that fraud would outweigh any fault or responsibility of yours.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:33 pm**

Sylvus wrote:To use a contemporary analogy, think about the cell phone. For a short period of time, there were concerns that cell phones may cause brain tumors. Since then, doctors and scientists have come out and said that the use of cell phones is safe and will not cause cancer. What if, say in 30 years, the doctors are proven wrong? Will it be my fault that I got cancer, simply because I listened to those people who devote their lives to studying the body and what is good for it or harmful to it?

If you started getting symptoms immediatly hell yeah I would put down the Cell phone.

You see that is what happens when you smoke.

Posted: **March 25, 2003, 12:37 pm**

cartalas, since everybody in the 50s smoked, people werent turned off by the breath or smoky smelling clothes.

I guarantee you would have fallen for ads like this in the 50s.

Sure in our current media environment those ads look silly. I would guess most households didnt even have televisions when this ad was made.

There is a reason manipulative ads like that don't work on us anymore, and that is because we are bombarded with ads, and have learned to be discriminating.

but hey, even a warning label on the side of the cigarettes that basically says: these will kill you, doesnt stop people from buying them. So in summary, never underestimate the stupidity of people.