VeeshanVault

Glad you are finally seeing the light Kyoukan!......Wait, was that sarcasm?

I think the U.S. is being the bad cop in 'good cop - bad cop'. Saddam looks at the security council and flips them the bird. The security council says, if you don't like it, I'll let the U.S. chat with you. U.S. saber rattles. Saddam says, "So, exactly HOW high did you want me to jump??"

If Saddam allows the weapon inspections into the country and the U.N. is CONVINCED that there are no areas hiding weapons, then there is no need for the U.S. to attack. The key is that it is the Iraqies that need to put the proof out. Let the inspectors go anywhere. The U.S. is allowed to have a vested interest in this.

Then again, I do like the idea of letting Israel handle things.

The ideal scenario is Saddam allows the inspections, we find nothing, then he gives us the bird. I'd have no problem with that and I would expect my hero Dubbya to move on.

i take back what i said about oil prices and stuff.

just saw a piece with some economic experts who are saying in general the Oil Futures markets right now seem to be going as if a price drop was anticipated.

meaning that people expect: a short military conflict, or none at all.

now a protracted conflict would hurt us bad. Espcecially if Iran and Saudi Arabia got pissed and took their oil of the market. That is unlikely though. That is what would have to happen to double the oil price.

Partially because Iraq contributes such a small portion to the overall oil market (due to UN sanctions), and the US Strategic Oil Reserve could make up the difference for a period of a year, with no price flux.

of course if the conflict was protracted and we saw the S&P 500 drop 10-30% of its value, most of our parents would be so totally fucked because their retirement accounts got even worse than the bad state they may already be in.

If Saddam does not comply and we have a conflict, how about...

We marshal plan Iraq. Sell the oil on the world market and have the money go to rebuilding Iraq? Similar to what happened after world war II.

In this way, Iraq is the main winner in this conflict. They get a democratic form of government (for as long as they can hold onto it), they get the infrastructure, schooling, etc. The world gets less terrorism. (i'm assuming)

May even be worth telling Saddam that we would pay for him to *retire* to some south seas island to get him out of power. Maybe throw 69 virgins into the mix.

Oh ya that would be great to foreclose on all the countries that owe the US money EXCEPT what is your national debt asshole? Who do you owe money to? Now that would be really funny to have the foriegn investors that own the US foreclose on your ass you PAB. Fuck talk about arrogant.

Hammerstalker PE wrote:Oh ya that would be great to foreclose on all the countries that owe the US money EXCEPT what is your national debt asshole? Who do you owe money to? Now that would be really funny to have the foriegn investors that own the US foreclose on your ass you PAB. Fuck talk about arrogant.

Umm Hammer Time the National Dept is not just to Foriegn investors most of it is right in the good ole USA banks. Now on that note just one act of congress would make America Debt Free and there would not be a thing the World could do about it. You need to remember something the USA is the largest consumer nation in the world if our economy goes in the shitter well when we flush the rest of the world goes down too.

hahah that is funny, congress just passing a law to erase the debt.

yeah what do those banks/insurers care if TRILLIONS OF FUCKING DOLLARS OF THEIR MONEY JUST DISAPPEAR.

and that of course will have no effect on the economy.

i think i'm going to call the bank today and tell them my mortgage no longer exists. they won't give a fuck, i swear.

Voronwë wrote:hahah that is funny, congress just passing a law to erase the debt.

yeah what do those banks/insurers care if TRILLIONS OF FUCKING DOLLARS OF THEIR MONEY JUST DISAPPEAR.

and that of course will have no effect on the economy.

i think i'm going to call the bank today and tell them my mortgage no longer exists. they won't give a fuck, i swear.

I didnt say they would do it I said they could there is a difference. Also V man when you become as powerful as the United States you make that phone call. I can name many Large Companies that have defaulted on loans and well nothing was done to them.

Cartalas wrote:I didnt say they would do it I said they could there is a difference. Also V man when you become as powerful as the United States you make that phone call. I can name many Large Companies that have defaulted on loans and well nothing was done to them.

So name them.

NorthWest Airlines, Texas Insturments.


Not to mention Texas Air I.E Frank Lorenzo Defaulted on all loans but Continental is still flying.

filing for bankruptcy protection is not the same thing as the borrower voiding a loan.

I was not talking about foreclosing on Iraq, I was talking about how to handle Iraq after the conflict so that the people of Iraq come out ahead.

It may be interesting, however, to name Iraq the 51st state after the conflict.

Valgul wrote:I was not talking about foreclosing on Iraq, I was talking about how to handle Iraq after the conflict so that the people of Iraq come out ahead.

It may be interesting, however, to name Iraq the 51st state after the conflict.

and let Muslims vote!?!?!?!

not on my watch.

we'll bulldoze their houses, and build ones for white people. That's how Israel kicks ass! and by gum, they don't have a trouble in the world!!

Cartalas wrote:NorthWest Airlines, Texas Insturments.


Not to mention Texas Air I.E Frank Lorenzo Defaulted on all loans but Continental is still flying.

So are you suggesting the United States of America should file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection?

Voronwë wrote:
and let Muslims vote!?!?!?!

not on my watch.

we'll bulldoze their houses, and build ones for white people. That's how Israel kicks ass! and by gum, they don't have a trouble in the world!!

Bulldoze the homes of terrorist factions in Iraq as Israel does in their part of the world? I'm all for it!

I am all for taking out terrorists. Saddam Hussien is a Terrorist period. The fact that he won't allow unrestricted weapons inspections is proof that he is a snake. Innocent until proven guilty is what I am hearing from some of you. Let's see this fucker used Biological weapons and poison gas on Iran and the Kurds. He attacked Kuwait and stole everything that wasn't nailed down. He launched SCUD missiles into Israel for what reason? Then he torched all of the oil rigs in Kuwait creating a monumental ecological disaster.

Finally as I mentioned above he NEVER co-operated with the UN resolution for weapons inspections.

Ok to all of you that keep saying a war on Iraq is not needed I say it is WAY past due! When will you jokers wake up and realize that a leopard can't change it's spots? What will it take a fucking Nerve Gas bomb detonating in your city center?

Wake the fuck up and Kyoukan if you disagree then you are possibly the dumbest person on the planet.

*EDIT ME SPELLING ETC*

kyoukan type-R wrote:

Cartalas wrote:NorthWest Airlines, Texas Insturments.


Not to mention Texas Air I.E Frank Lorenzo Defaulted on all loans but Continental is still flying.

So are you suggesting the United States of America should file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection?

Hell Why not and I think the Texas Air Debacle was a little more then Chapter 11 Frank Lorenzo tool all the Assist's of Eastern and Texas Internaional and poured it into Continental and then filed Chapter 11 on Texas Air Corp minus Continental.

NotrhWest Airlines took out Govt. Backed bank loans in Minnesota and then threatened to move there world headquaters if they had to pay it back.

btw on a side note...chapter 11 ranks up there just ahead of daylight savings time as THE STUPIDEST FUCKING THING EVER CREATED.

UN already inspected Iraq. So saying that they wont let anyone in is false, they just wont let the US in.

Kev please let us in on the knowledge you have and no one else does.

Opps, did I bump this thread?
Keverian, what unlimited inspections occured?

Keverian,


Nonsense. UN inspectors were allowed into some sites and denied access to others. They were specifically not allowed to see any site labelled as a presidential retreat. Funny thing is, those retreat sites were know to change on almost a daily basis for as long as the UN inspectors were in Iraq.


If you believe the UN has inspected Iraq's weapon manufacture sites, I have a bridge with a be-yooo-teful view I would like to sell you.

btw on a side note...chapter 11 ranks up there just ahead of daylight savings time as THE STUPIDEST FUCKING THING EVER CREATED.

So you'd rather we had debtor's prisons?

no but i don't think companies convicted of price gouging should be able to file chapter 11 and continue doing fucking business....it's a get out of jail free card for fuck ups

it has it's good points...but it's abused greatly...

fuck this feels older than a week ago

Keverian FireCry wrote:UN already inspected Iraq. So saying that they wont let anyone in is false, they just wont let the US in.

-- U.N. Security Council unanimously passes resolution calling for Iraq to disarm and for weapons inspectors to return.
Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com /AOL Keyword: CNN for the latest news.

Phew! After finally wading through all 8 pages of this I can finally make a statement.

Saddam is a piece of shit and needs to go. Personally I would like to just see a bullet in his head and be done with it. He has never lived up to the agreements of the last war and has never allowed full inspections. Anyone who thinks he has is just blind. He specifically refused to allow inspections of any of his private palaces and residences. Anyone else find it odd that while his people were starving he invested millions of dollars into private "palaces". Sounds like he is making bomb factories to me.

Saddam getting nukes doesn't worry me as much as him getting some really horrible biological weapon. Can you imagine if he had small pox sitting somewhere? I say if he blocks inspections, like the 17 times he has already, then the buildings are blown to hell. It is pretty obvious that Saddam has no worries about using any weapons at his disposal.

The US government claims that Saddam has helped Al Qaeda as well. If that is true then I think that gives us plenty of reason to go after him. His replacement may not be much better but he is definitely a piece of crap.

My fixes to this crap in general:
1. I would stop monetary support of all outside countries. Doing so is putting us in the poor house and that money can be better used to fix our own domestic problems with education and crime. We currently send $4billion a year to Israel and Egypt and like $750 million to Palestine (Arafat's personal wallet). We send billions to other countries around the world as well. There is no justified reason for us to be supporting other countries militarys. I still would like to see some humanitarian aid and development programs, just not flat cash to keep egypt from attacking israel or for israel's weapons programs. Only support those countries who are seriously interested in peace and democracy for their citizens.
2. Campaign Finance Reform - putting limits on what candidates can spend and who can donate to them will make politics work better for the people instead of being controlled by the special interests or extremely wealthy.
3. Term Limits - Does anyone else see anything wrong with a person spending 30 years as a congressman. Public service should be something you do for a couple years before returning to your real job. You shouldn't be able to earn a pension as a public servant. Lifetime public servant = never had a real job!! I have no problems if someone wants to do 2 terms as mayor and then 2 terms in other locations. I have a problem seeing that ass Kennedy in power for 30 years though.

All this stuff makes me sound pretty liberal but I am fairly moderate actually. I believe in small government and as low of taxes as it takes to keep us safe from outside agressors. Someone mentioned about roads and crap. I pay way too many taxes compared to other people it isn't fair for me to pay more than my fair share. People who believe that better off people should be paid more most likely never had a paycheck in their life. I know this from experience, in college I sided with a lot of liberals like the Green party. Once I got into the real world, I realized what a crock of shit a lot of those views are and am now a Libertarian.

The only thing that should be free in this country is the chance at a good education.

Sorry so much shit here heh.

Deward

Trust me, you don't sound like a liberal when you say "that ass Kennedy in power for 30 years" as opposed to, say, "that ass Thurmond in power for 50 years."

Sueven wrote:Trust me, you don't sound like a liberal when you say "that ass Kennedy in power for 30 years" as opposed to, say, "that ass Thurmond in power for 50 years."

i find strom thurmand amusing.

particularly that he ran on segregation platforms in the 50s.
and he also had at least one black mistress.

he's a classic cracker charicature in my book. speaking of crackers, those people in SC would elect him even if he was dead.

speaking of people who lose elections to corpses, John Ashcroft sure does like to juice people for somebody who leads bible meetings at work.

Haha V that was priceless.