VeeshanVault

page 7!

damnit psnak!!! you ninja'd that like 2 sec b4 me ><

this post is almost as funny as the time it was really cold outside & my friends nipples were hard and we threw a bucked of water on his shirt and his nipples were frozen to his shirt hahahahah

Fovol wrote:

Pahreyia wrote:

suppin wrote:But anyways, just hadda say that to get you to shut the fuck up, next time if you're going to talk out your ass, try and get some facts straight.

Be careful when coming out with this when you just posted a page or two ago about how fiends did all this content all by themselves. While it's true that Fiends has done well for themselves, it helps when you have an officer corps that had done the events prior with another guild (Valhall) and a legion of showEQ trackers. It's in bad taste and undercuts your moral high ground on this issue.

Not attacking you, just clarification:

We have currently a total of four active Valhall players. Three of whom, are in fact, officers. However, it would be ignorant to say that no other guilds have had leaders that haven't atleast once learned of the strats before (except for guilds on 'first accomplishments' every time). Not to mention, none of our Valhaller's have done many of the Elemental mobs we've thus far killed. I will give you that it did help us build a solid foundation when we were creating the guild, past that I doubt it really had much affect on the outcome of our guild.

On ShowEQ, uhm, I don't know what you're talking about.
Regardless, it doesn't win fights for a user, unlike PD has for FS.

I understand that Valhall wasn't deep into elementals when the guild basically disbanded, however, I merely mentioned it for the fact that PD has largely done up to elementals on their own, and Fiends has had the crutch of those in charge knowing the strats and in positions of authority. This is clearly a benefit as much of the original cast and crew of Fiends is ex LoV, and they were practically fresh off their first solo AoW kill. Once Fiends achieved Elementals, however, I congratulate you guys on your successes, as the people you recruited, by that point, had ponied up and earned their keep.

And yes, ShowEQ doesn't win fights, but it sure makes the skill involved in tracking a mob deep in a zone any idiot's game. Just pop in, check the map and call your raid... All before your necro moves 2 feet from zone in.

I'm not naive enough to think that no one else uses SEQ, but merely mentioned it to show that suppin was probably extending his moral authority on the issue slightly.

Zaelath wrote:

Voronwë wrote:

Zaeleth wrote:It's much easier to zerg, and the lag can work for you if it's server side, than it is to kill with the minimum numbers.

LOL wow

Glad I could amuse you, but ... what?

I get it! Zerging so much easier... no tactics, no stragety, no way to learn shit for yourselves. Just load up the nukes and throw everything you got at the target. And maybe if the lag gets high enough, you can exploit that too!

FFS, PoFire is laggy already as it is. Gonna be looking forward offset Fennin AE's and 6 min disc defensive while another 100+ people are killing Quav.

Yea, its also uber hard to just send a SOS rogue in. Yea.

Xanastik Fox wrote:Yea, its also uber hard to just send a SOS rogue in. Yea.

Try it in Air. I dare ya!

Fovol wrote:

Topper wrote:

Fovol wrote:

Akaran_D wrote:I just find it funny that anyone from Fiends honestly thinks that people from FS give a shit what they think of us.

I just find it funny that you find any sense of pride in your slaying of these flagging mobs.

what the fuck have you been smoking? Where has anyone bragged about anything fovol?

You sir, are a dumbass

You, sir, lack any intelligence. If you had no pride in your actions, you wouldn't sit here and defend them.

To Akaran: to each his own, I suppose. If you truly feel no pride an anything you have 'accomplished' (take that for what it's worth, as you said, it is just a game) in this game, then what do you feel when you beat GTA:Vice city through hours of work compared to when you run through the game with invincibility and infinite ammo codes on? I realize, that in both situations, many would have fun (atleast for awhile, it gets boring after doing it for too long), but you don't feel like you've done anything. Maybe I'm the odd one out here, but I play games for entertainment as well as a competitive interest; which you assuredly do as well or you wouldn't be allying, because you'd be content progressing slower.

As an aside, an accomplishment, is, by definition, an achievement. An achievement, is, in turn, an accomplishment by use of preserverence or skill. Farstorm, in my opinion, has generally stuck to these 'requirements', however, their slayings of flag mobs do not meet any of these requirements. They didn't win because they were skilled or because they stuck at it until they won, they won because they had another guild that has done them before hold their hands through it. I cannot tell someone what they can or cannot be proud of because of the nature of pride. It's how you feel about yourself based on your outlook of others' previous accomplishments. So, I suppose this is a losing argument for me since you'll swear 'til the end of the world that you are awesome because you killed RZtW (or whatever) 'with' PD, and since my "opinions don't matter" to you, you'll have to rely on your own self-judgement of what's legit or not. However, on the same note, I feel pride that my guild worked for everything we have (minus a total of four people that are from a higher-end guild -- holy shit), and weren't pulled through it.

Finally, I personally will respect your future accomplishments (for example, when you kill Fennin) because both sides will have had to work for it -- not coming into it already champs, but how you got there will always be, sadly, weak.

Fovol, stfu lol. You have resorted to basic 'you lack intellegence shit'. Was i defending my actions dumbass? Or was i calling you out? I made no claim to anything, and am now only defending myself, because you are utterly retarded.

Thanks though, you are wasting time by posting your thoughts at all.

Would love if you read my post again, and see if i have posted on this thread previously. I have not defended anything, just called you a dumbass because you were wrong. Thats all. If by anywhere i have 'defended them' show me. I recall doing no such thing.

Xanastik Fox wrote:Yea, its also uber hard to just send a SOS rogue in. Yea.

Rogues are one thing, but when a class zones in that would have ABSOLUTELY no clue as to what could be up at the far end of the zone... I.E. Necro on Yozzani.. It's pretty clear that some SEQing is going on. While the moral debate on packet sniffers can be dealt with elsewhere, the flagrant use of SEQ for tracking purposes undercuts the moral high ground that Suppin was attempting to carry fiends over. I don't dispute your successes, and grats to you guys for them. But to use SEQ in zones like elementals undercuts the difficulty and skill required to track those targets by means of rangers/druids/rogues/bards and the skill required to find out if they're even up.

Fovol called it playing GTA: Vice City with the codes on, I call it Starcraft / Warcraft with the map discovery cheat and fog of war off.

You obviously do not realize that the word 'you' also can be used as a plural pronoun. I was directing it towards your guild in general. You used 'anyone', referring to your guild (or I suppose PD). I'm saying that your guild is defending the issue, and thus, has pride in their accomplishments.

Pahreyia, I admit I skimmed your post, because you have a point and like I said, I for the most part, agree; I was just clarifying. *I* (maybe someone else did, I didn't, though) never claimed that PD's accomplishments weren't legit. Even with Farstorm's assistance, I think what they achieve is completely fair. Perhaps, it will be a target of jokes for being a large raid force, maybe not, but they get it done. I'm targeting Farstorm because they've thus far worked for jack and shit in the 'alliance'.

I don't think SEQ updates very well at long ranges, basically outside of tracking range. You need to get close to the mob that you're wishing to track to get an accurate reading, most of the time. Most stuff is trackable from the zone in anyways, but it does give said guild more potential trackers, I suppose. Again, I'm not saying we're right/wrong here, just clarifying for better judgement by you (or others).

Pahreyia wrote: As far as PD taking FS through to elementals, how is that different from guild backflagging applicants or trial members? It's just the scale of the beast. No one makes a 6 page flame thread over Fiends backflagging A_Random_Player_01 up to elementals even though that person has 0 Endgame Luclin or PoP experience. Clearly that person didn't "earn" the right to be in elementals, but hey, they needed the class or the body to throw at A_Boss_Mob_08.

If it furthers PD and FS by allying up, so be it. If it costs your guild valuable mangelo woodies because you missed the mob... C'est la vie.

Your analogy of PD merely "backflagging" FS as if they were apps to their guild is plain stupid.

When a guild has progressed into the elemental stages you can't just say "hey, let's not let anyone join unless they get all the flags to this point on their own." Obviously, people come and go in a guild, and sometimes you have to get replacements - this is basic EQ guild-related knowledge. It's one thing to backflag a round of 10 applicants to your guild or whatever - it's different to backflag an entirely different guild that put no work whatsoever into getting those flags other than logging on and showing up at a raid.

The scale of the beast? Yeah, that is the difference, and it's a difference worth a 6 page thread apparently. There really is no difference from PD backflagging an entire guild that they plan on co-raiding with than from backflagging a round of 70 some odd applicants - the thing is, if they were backflagging 70 applicants, there'd still be a post about it, because it's really quite ridiculous / sad. The difference worth 6 pages IS the scale of the beast. Walking an entire guild through the flag-progression to elementals is in fact, pretty damn lame when you look at it from the eyes of any other guild that's already in elementals - the guilds that worked for it, raided day and night, trying over and over to perfect their strategy for some various raid - ie Rallos Zek, or Bertoxxulous, etc.

It's been stated repeatedly already - but where's the sense of accompishment? Where's the sense of achievement? There isn't one, and if the "alliance" continues, as it apparently will, you never can really have one since it's already been handed to you by someone. That'd put a bad taste in my mouth if my entire guild was simply walked through it all. The invicibility/ammo cheat analogy is a pretty good one. Sure it's fun, but there's no accomplishment involved.

As for trying to say Fiends had everything "handed" to them - wowow, you're 100 percent correct omgad. We have 6 people that were in Valhall at one point, two of which is in inactive. I'm sorry but what Jice stated isn't true - 5 people knowing what they're doing along with 45 warm bodies doesn't win a higher end PoP raid for you.Not to mention that some events have changed since Valhall did them - Rallos Zek being one of them. We devised our own strategy against him, which involved thinking on our own part - not the part of some other guild.

Like it's mentioned above, to each his own I suppose, but seriously, I get laugh each time I hear "We killed Rallos Zek with PD!"

Sargeras wrote:

Zaelath wrote:

Voronwë wrote:

Zaeleth wrote:It's much easier to zerg, and the lag can work for you if it's server side, than it is to kill with the minimum numbers.

LOL wow

Glad I could amuse you, but ... what?

I get it! Zerging so much easier... no tactics, no stragety, no way to learn shit for yourselves. Just load up the nukes and throw everything you got at the target. And maybe if the lag gets high enough, you can exploit that too!

FFS, PoFire is laggy already as it is. Gonna be looking forward offset Fennin AE's and 6 min disc defensive while another 100+ people are killing Quav.

Right, though PoFire has only been like that a month or two, I'm sure they're working feverishly on fixing the problem

TBH I think people kill more reliably w/ 45 than with 100... people get inattentive when they think there's plenty of people to cover their ass.

Pahreyia wrote:

Xanastik Fox wrote:Yea, its also uber hard to just send a SOS rogue in. Yea.

Rogues are one thing, but when a class zones in that would have ABSOLUTELY no clue as to what could be up at the far end of the zone... I.E. Necro on Yozzani.. It's pretty clear that some SEQing is going on. While the moral debate on packet sniffers can be dealt with elsewhere, the flagrant use of SEQ for tracking purposes undercuts the moral high ground that Suppin was attempting to carry fiends over. I don't dispute your successes, and grats to you guys for them. But to use SEQ in zones like elementals undercuts the difficulty and skill required to track those targets by means of rangers/druids/rogues/bards and the skill required to find out if they're even up.

Fovol called it playing GTA: Vice City with the codes on, I call it Starcraft / Warcraft with the map discovery cheat and fog of war off.

I can track any named npc in any elemental plane with the exception of one, single, npc - Coirnav. We've never raided or attempted Coirnav yet. Damn, we're such cheaters!!!

Zaeleth wrote:It's much easier to zerg, and the lag can work for you if it's server side, than it is to kill with the minimum numbers.

Zaeleth wrote:TBH I think people kill more reliably w/ 45 than with 100... people get inattentive when they think there's plenty of people to cover their ass.

Ok, now you are confusing me

Fovol wrote:Pahreyia, I admit I skimmed your post, because you have a point and like I said, I for the most part, agree; I was just clarifying. *I* (maybe someone else did, I didn't, though) never claimed that PD's accomplishments weren't legit. Even with Farstorm's assistance, I think what they achieve is completely fair. Perhaps, it will be a target of jokes for being a large raid force, maybe not, but they get it done. I'm targeting Farstorm because they've thus far worked for jack and shit in the 'alliance'.

And I never claimed that the achievements weren't either. I believe we agree on this fact, just by way of differing semantics.

I don't think SEQ updates very well at long ranges, basically outside of tracking range. You need to get close to the mob that you're wishing to track to get an accurate reading, most of the time. Most stuff is trackable from the zone in anyways, but it does give said guild more potential trackers, I suppose. Again, I'm not saying we're right/wrong here, just clarifying for better judgement by you (or others).

As I understand the program, it generates a list of every mob in the zone when you zone in, as well as a map. As I'm sure that for the purposes of saving latency, the servers wouldn't send packet information for a mob that's too far away to track, zoning into PoFire and checking the list for, and I'll use the same example, Yozzani, who is not trackable from the zone, or the Fennin script Catalyst mob negates the difficulty of sending in a rogue or ranger to track it.

Drinsic Darkwood wrote:

Pahreyia wrote:

Xanastik Fox wrote:Yea, its also uber hard to just send a SOS rogue in. Yea.

Rogues are one thing, but when a class zones in that would have ABSOLUTELY no clue as to what could be up at the far end of the zone... I.E. Necro on Yozzani.. It's pretty clear that some SEQing is going on. While the moral debate on packet sniffers can be dealt with elsewhere, the flagrant use of SEQ for tracking purposes undercuts the moral high ground that Suppin was attempting to carry fiends over. I don't dispute your successes, and grats to you guys for them. But to use SEQ in zones like elementals undercuts the difficulty and skill required to track those targets by means of rangers/druids/rogues/bards and the skill required to find out if they're even up.

Fovol called it playing GTA: Vice City with the codes on, I call it Starcraft / Warcraft with the map discovery cheat and fog of war off.

I can track any named npc in any elemental plane with the exception of one, single, npc - Coirnav. We've never raided or attempted Coirnav yet. Damn, we're such cheaters!!!

Pah is pointing out that SEQ allows people that generally wouldn't be able to track to be able to track. It's a valid point, but I tend to disagree that it makes us a morally wrong guild for using it; like I said, it'd be ignorant to say no one has used it before. However, what FS is doing has never been done before. It's just.. uhm, dumb.

Because he likes it when I stroke his member: Drinsic does do the majority of our tracking. Not all, but the majority.

Sargeras wrote:

Zaeleth wrote:It's much easier to zerg, and the lag can work for you if it's server side, than it is to kill with the minimum numbers.

Zaeleth wrote:TBH I think people kill more reliably w/ 45 than with 100... people get inattentive when they think there's plenty of people to cover their ass.

Ok, now you are confusing me

Difference between a "first kill to get the flag out of the way" and being able to reliably take down a target. ie, easier to kill something without a refined strategy, but highly unreliable.

Fovol wrote:You obviously do not realize that the word 'you' also can be used as a plural pronoun. I was directing it towards your guild in general. You used 'anyone', referring to your guild (or I suppose PD). I'm saying that your guild is defending the issue, and thus, has pride in their accomplishments.

Pahreyia, I admit I skimmed your post, because you have a point and like I said, I for the most part, agree; I was just clarifying. *I* (maybe someone else did, I didn't, though) never claimed that PD's accomplishments weren't legit. Even with Farstorm's assistance, I think what they achieve is completely fair. Perhaps, it will be a target of jokes for being a large raid force, maybe not, but they get it done. I'm targeting Farstorm because they've thus far worked for jack and shit in the 'alliance'.

I don't think SEQ updates very well at long ranges, basically outside of tracking range. You need to get close to the mob that you're wishing to track to get an accurate reading, most of the time. Most stuff is trackable from the zone in anyways, but it does give said guild more potential trackers, I suppose. Again, I'm not saying we're right/wrong here, just clarifying for better judgement by you (or others).

I hate responses that point out grammar, because sometimes it can go two ways. In the english language, there are more than two ways to point out a group. Most of the time, You All would be associated when talking about plural persons, because it is more descriptive. In texas, its ya'll. Now, you can pull out your plural pronoun bullshit if you want, but the fact is: You should have been more clear while posting. You is most commonly placed with singular referances. So, stfu.

Defense was only used because of people like you who have a 'honor code' will bitch about something you find unfair. No were is there bragging about killing mobs. Im sorry thats how you read it, but this thread started off as an attack in the first place. IF you have a problem with it, im sorry. You do things your way, and the rest of us will do it another.

Perhaps, 'you all' would have been more descriptive. But if you're calling me out for pointing out grammatical indifferences, you 'started it'. You would think that it would be assumed that I am posting the most logical statement of the two, not the most illogical. Shadow of the doubt and all.

Anyways, nice to see you fall back on semantics and 'stfu'.

Drinsic Darkwood wrote:Your analogy of PD merely "backflagging" FS as if they were apps to their guild is plain stupid.

When a guild has progressed into the elemental stages you can't just say "hey, let's not let anyone join unless they get all the flags to this point on their own." Obviously, people come and go in a guild, and sometimes you have to get replacements - this is basic EQ guild-related knowledge. It's one thing to backflag a round of 10 applicants to your guild or whatever - it's different to backflag an entirely different guild that put no work whatsoever into getting those flags other than logging on and showing up at a raid.

I agree with you, in principle. However, if PD chooses to form an alliance with FS and backflags them to bring their people up to the level of PDs in order to solidify the raiding force that is at the core of the alliance, I, personally, see little difference in backflagging a wave of recruits, beyond the scale.

It's been stated repeatedly already - but where's the sense of accompishment? Where's the sense of achievement? There isn't one, and if the "alliance" continues, as it apparently will, you never can really have one since it's already been handed to you by someone. That'd put a bad taste in my mouth if my entire guild was simply walked through it all. The invicibility/ammo cheat analogy is a pretty good one. Sure it's fun, but there's no accomplishment involved.

And this is where I agree most with you.

As for trying to say Fiends had everything "handed" to them - wowow, you're 100 percent correct omgad. We have 6 people that were in Valhall at one point, two of which is in inactive. I'm sorry but what Jice stated isn't true - 5 people knowing what they're doing along with 45 warm bodies doesn't win a higher end PoP raid for you.Not to mention that some events have changed since Valhall did them - Rallos Zek being one of them. We devised our own strategy against him, which involved thinking on our own part - not the part of some other guild.

I didn't say it was pure piggybacking of the non-Valhall people. I just attributed much of the speed by which you guys made elementals to having Valhall people in officer positions. Clearly this benefitted Fiends in a similar way that PD's raiding core is helping FS through planar progression. However, I most certainly do not mean to suggest that Fiends did not make elementals on their own. There is a difference, and I'd like to make sure that you don't assume that I don't see it. However, it's one thing to push through to elementals by your own strats and learning curve, and it's another to have officers and raid leaders who had experience with the events. I attribute this to the speed by which Fiends made elementals, not by their aptitude. And as I said, by the time you guys got elementals, there was no argument that your people didn't earn it.

This was not a flame, and I did not mean to call you out. You guys have all the respect you deserve for what you've done. I merely clarified that Suppin's arguments from moral positions were not being generated from the highest moral authority, and provided small, factual examples to back up my claims.

Drinsic Darkwood wrote:

Pahreyia wrote:

Xanastik Fox wrote:Yea, its also uber hard to just send a SOS rogue in. Yea.

Rogues are one thing, but when a class zones in that would have ABSOLUTELY no clue as to what could be up at the far end of the zone... I.E. Necro on Yozzani.. It's pretty clear that some SEQing is going on. While the moral debate on packet sniffers can be dealt with elsewhere, the flagrant use of SEQ for tracking purposes undercuts the moral high ground that Suppin was attempting to carry fiends over. I don't dispute your successes, and grats to you guys for them. But to use SEQ in zones like elementals undercuts the difficulty and skill required to track those targets by means of rangers/druids/rogues/bards and the skill required to find out if they're even up.

Fovol called it playing GTA: Vice City with the codes on, I call it Starcraft / Warcraft with the map discovery cheat and fog of war off.

I can track any named npc in any elemental plane with the exception of one, single, npc - Coirnav. We've never raided or attempted Coirnav yet. Damn, we're such cheaters!!!

Yes, I know. My point is, however, that just tossing a necro into the zone, seeing what's up and calling the raid requires negligable skill versus zoning in a ranger/druid/rogue/bard and having them make their way to a tracking position. There's inherently risk involved and skill required, and by using SEQ you circumvent that. Again, merely a statement to argue the moral authority of the position.

Fovol wrote:Pah is pointing out that SEQ allows people that generally wouldn't be able to track to be able to track. It's a valid point, but I tend to disagree that it makes us a morally wrong guild for using it; like I said, it'd be ignorant to say no one has used it before. However, what FS is doing has never been done before. It's just.. uhm, dumb.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.. I don't mean to suggest the the guild is not morally right or wrong.

Pahreyia wrote:I'll use the same example, Yozzani, who is not trackable from the zone, or the Fennin script Catalyst mob negates the difficulty of sending in a rogue or ranger to track it.

Incorrect, for the record, I can track every mob inside PoFire from zone in. Guardian of Doomfire, and Arch Mage Yozanni included.

Drinsic Darkwood wrote:

Pahreyia wrote:I'll use the same example, Yozzani, who is not trackable from the zone, or the Fennin script Catalyst mob negates the difficulty of sending in a rogue or ranger to track it.

Incorrect, for the record, I can track every mob inside PoFire from zone in. Guardian of Doomfire, and Arch Mage Yozanni included.

If that's the case, then I stand corrected.

Valkeria wrote:

Every guild also has its idiots most of whom seem to post here myself included. But every guild also has its share of skilled decent players just because you hate their guild tag is no reason to judge each individual that way.

I agree 100%...but this is the FlameVault...and 'tis where idiots like to come and swing their cocks around...tiny cocks swinging in the VV breeze.




Moon

After a while I just stopped reading, it got boring. I just kept seeing how many more posts til I see that stupid cat on the left side of my screen.

Psyloche wrote:After a while I just stopped reading, it got boring. I just kept seeing how many more posts til I see that stupid cat on the left side of my screen.

The Kitty > all

If the lot of you enjoy forming into one enormous blob to progress, devoid of any sense of accomplishment, then I say you deserve each other and it should be a match made in heaven. I have a sneaky suspicion however, that those hardcore people you want to keep will end up abandoning you simply because it's no fun to be one awesome player in a group of 150 idiots, half of whom are afk. No one cares about you, and unless there's an automated raid tracker, no one would even know you showed up on a raid like that.

I'm curious to see how your planned attrition (lol) will actually pan out with that in mind.

Pahreyia wrote:I didn't say it was pure piggybacking of the non-Valhall people. I just attributed much of the speed by which you guys made elementals to having Valhall people in officer positions. Clearly this benefitted Fiends in a similar way that PD's raiding core is helping FS through planar progression. However, I most certainly do not mean to suggest that Fiends did not make elementals on their own. There is a difference, and I'd like to make sure that you don't assume that I don't see it. However, it's one thing to push through to elementals by your own strats and learning curve, and it's another to have officers and raid leaders who had experience with the events. I attribute this to the speed by which Fiends made elementals, not by their aptitude. And as I said, by the time you guys got elementals, there was no argument that your people didn't earn it.

This was not a flame, and I did not mean to call you out. You guys have all the respect you deserve for what you've done. I merely clarified that Suppin's arguments from moral positions were not being generated from the highest moral authority, and provided small, factual examples to back up my claims.

ex valhall:
Luggz
Vannor
^same RL person
Ginaa
Needol
^same RL person
Kyloni
Wambus
-----------
that's all i can remember and of those just luggz/vannor(same RL person) and ginaa/needol(same RL person are officers, meaning there are only 2 officers...hardly enough to make up for an entire raid that has never experienced any of the content before...

One... or Ten... A person with a working strat is going to make progression faster than 70 people with no idea what to expect or a working knowledge of how to accomplish the kill.

Wow. Still going. In other news, different people have different opinions, and water is still wet.

Pahreyia wrote:One... or Ten... A person with a working strat is going to make progression faster than 70 people with no idea what to expect or a working knowledge of how to accomplish the kill.

90% of the time you're going to know the strat anyways, though. Unless you're at the top of the game, maybe, but by the time lower guilds get their shot at it the level four woodelves in PoK are trading strats to Quarm for Temperance. Although, I'll give you that experience does help, but the strat is easy to get.

As much as I have tried to avoid getting too involved in this thread (one or two one-liners aside), I feel compelled to point out a couple of things to those that insist on using pharses such as "FS put no work into elementals at all," or "with a little VT farming." I really had a tough time deciding whether to make this post at all since I just don't give a rat's ass about most of your opinions (no offense), but in the end I felt that introducing a few things I like to call "facts" into the discussion would be helpful.

Facts:

• FS has farmed VT on a regular basis for months now such that even my alt shaman has managed to get in on some of the loots.
• FS successfully did VZ & TZ alone multiple times. We attempted, but failed RZ once - a few more attempts at most, and RZtW would've fallen too.
• FS has successfully done the 2 lesser HoH trials repeatedly. We failed RD a few times while we worked that out, and he'd have gone down Saturday with or without PDs involvement.
• TT, Agnarr, Grummus, Caprin Cycle, AD, Behemoth - all are mobs that we've done by ourselves. We've done them a lot and with little to no difficulty.
• Bertox we've fought solo and lost, but it was close. No active FS member has any doubt that Berty would've gone boom on our next try with or without PD.
• Saryrn was the next on our list. We farmed keys and were ready to destroy her the next time she popped.

Given our track record vs. these mobs there can be NO doubt in any reasonable person's mind that the best case scenario here (or worst depending on perspective) is that our new relationship with PD saved us a few weeks - a month at most. Some will question the need for us to have engaged in such a partnership if we were so close on our own. The simple answer is that it just makes sense to do so. Both guilds can continue to deal with numbers / availability issues for the next month and get our flags in November, or we can cooperate and have fun tomorrow. It seems to be an easy decision to make.

FS has been an active participant in every co-raid thus far. No one has "sat back while PD killed" and then collected a flag. We utilized the combined knowledge of all our raid leaders and officers on both sides of the alliance. Two dipsarate forces have managed to quickly work through the complications that come from lack of familiarity, and have coalesced into an effective force. We performed well together, and will only get better as we grow more accustomed to each other's collective idiosyncrasies. Yes, the numbers were large on some of the raids - it's hard to not have huge numbers when people are logging on 3 and 4 accounts to get flags for gimps, etc. You all know as well as I do how many people come out of the woodwork to score a flag. I wouldn't count on seeing that sort of sustained numbers, however.

On any given night, we're lucky if we break 35 to 40 characters online simultaneously. Some are bazaar gimps, some are our more casual members goofing off with their 50-something toons, and a good 5 or 6 of those are 2 (or 3) boxed accounts. We can put together a raid force in excess of 60 toons a couple of times a week tops. PD is also dealing with numbers issues, particularly during non-prime time hours. In the end, the two guilds got together and decided to put our past differences aside in order to help each other get beyond the issues we're currently facing.

Those of you that are most vocal about it are the ones that have the most to lose as a result of successful FS/PD relationship (/gasp). In the end, it doesn't matter, though. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. You can continue to sling shit all you like, but it isn't going to change the fact that Farstorm and Pravus Dei have begun what promises to be a very advantageous relationship.

*edit* my keyboard hates me.

Deneve wrote: ...ex valhall:
Wambus...

You mean WAMASS!!!!!

Pahreyia wrote:Fiends just lost a good number of people

We lost like... 6 toons?... 2 chars = 1 person, and like some others... heh imo better without them... Wish them luck with their "new" guild!!

Sargeras wrote:

Our roster may have an "active" list of 91, but when we log in every night to raid, we are lucky to even see 50-60 online for a target. But you wouldn't know that would you?[/quote]


just as pd has killed just about EVERY non god mob sans air rings in elementals with having most nights JUST over 40 people on and mostly never more than 60...our active list is what 89 people with an actual number of people being "active" raiding more than 3 days a week at 40 or under

problem we have is having more people on to hit targets earlier in the night when we have say 20ish people on while your guild and other guilds have an actual raid force...alliance was the right choice and i know that between PD and FS's actual active rosters we will be able to just fill raids after we get past the bombardment of people logging on that are in fact normally casual just to get flags...flag mobs bring people out of the woodwork...you know this, has happened in every guild;and if we are zerg for awhile or even for a few months, i don't really give a fuck...ends will justify the means and balance will be created reguardless of counting on attrition by normal means or not

if anyone REALLY cares and is loosing sleep over our alliance please log on and talk to me about it, and maybe i will pretend that i care about any one else on the server except PD, FS and friends from CoE and CD for a few minutes to make you feel better about yourself

I think had you read any of the comments in the last 7 pages you might have written something on topic, rather than sifting through to find something you could pick out of context and attack. Difficult as it may be to disassociate yourself from Farstorm already, it seems all the negativity is directed at their enormous level of gimp and, for once, not at yours. If you'd like to be included directly then feel free to continue to represent PD as Farstorm and Farstorm as PD.

balance will be created reguardless of counting on attrition by normal means or not

What's the secret plan? Just boot people that don't log on?

No point in trying to explain this shit really. Your head will explode before people understand the concept of not flaging people that didn't do said mob on there own.

PD has in fact flagged FS on content they have not yet killed obviously

would be stupid otherwise considering the fact that the goal of the alliance is being competitive in elementals and moving to kill elemental gods in short order

nothing to hide here...i'm proud of my guild and i'm proud of FS for taking the the BIG step that it takes to step up and raid with another guild...if you want i will post our raid numbers for the next few months on our front page so you can giggle, jacking off while making zerg comment posts

i know for a fact that the majority of our raids will level out to 72 or a bit under in the months to come...we will work to this point one way or another...at the time being our goals are to get all fs elemental (reguardless of how this supposedly causes any of you to feel about your own accomplishments), and to start being competitive early in the evening thus ensuring that we have numbers to get god attempts and kills

thank you for your concern

What's the secret plan?

TOP SECRET

Stalker Vacio wrote:

Deneve wrote: ...ex valhall:
Wambus...

You mean WAMASS!!!!!

j00 know wamb from somewhere? he's a RL friend of mine, almost all of my EQ playing has been at his house...though it looks like he is quiting EQ now

*edit* oh yeah, derailed...

Xyun's SC zerg pics own at life~

Zastlyn wrote:Xyun's SC zerg pics own at life~

Jackas!!

Trias wrote:PD has in fact flagged FS on content they have not yet killed obviously

And in one sentence, by one person responsible, it is all summed up.

Enjoy the zerg. Don't forget the spawn more overlords.

and tonight we zerged in powater for some elemental armor with 62...and then MM with 52...

so?

nm, not even gonna play this kid game crap

Sargeras wrote:so?

Ben stiller is bombing at the movies lately, EXPLAIN THAT Mr. Zoolander!

Trias wrote:nm, not even gonna play this kid game crap

You started rofl.

Proctus wrote:Ben stiller is bombing at the movies lately, EXPLAIN THAT Mr. Zoolander!

There's an afterparty?

Yeah Proctus, the Royal Tennenbaums did horrible. Oh wait. It didn't.

Thanks Moon /huggles!! Least Moon understands one thing friendship is more important than the fact of the guild tag you wear. Suppin least I can admit to my shortcomings can you? You all keep seeing what you want to see and enjoying your bitter little bitchings we have mobs to kill. Tootles!