Jihad This!

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 3:28 pm

Haha, those topics say it all.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 21, 2002, 3:36 pm

Well I have always been more of a Tactical Turtle in my thinking. I agree with you in that we were doing just fine with the lend lease until we were brought into the war by the Japanese. I don't believe the genocide that was taking place had anything to do with it.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 21, 2002, 3:40 pm

and to divert our attention from the shitpile that is our current domestic state

Bub, here is a clue. Try living in another country for a year. Then come back and bitch about the state of America.

We get involved in conflicts that will directly or indirectly affect our country. Corporations call this "enlightened self-interest". It would be a stuipd damned thing indeed to rush into a situation where we had no interest whatsoever.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 3:50 pm

I have been to almost every European country, north African countries, a few middle east countries, and Russia. While OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of those countries are great to visit, and most are crap piles, there is no place like America. I took small things like running water and a toilet in a public bathroom for granted. Never again. Believe it or not, the friendliest places I ever visited were Israel and Russia...Russian families would invite you to dine with them and sleep in their homes instead of paying for a hotel. Not many countries out there that have a population that is that hospitable.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 21, 2002, 3:59 pm

Bub, here is a clue. Try living in another country for a year. Then come back and bitch about the state of America.

We get involved in conflicts that will directly or indirectly affect our country. Corporations call this "enlightened self-interest". It would be a stuipd damned thing indeed to rush into a situation where we had no interest whatsoever.

I've been overseas off and on for the past 12 years for upwards of a month at times and keep in contact with relatives living in 4 different countries, but keep grasping at those ever so distant straws!

Remind me exactly which self-interest was it that didnt exist 4 years ago (when Iraq blocked UN inspectors completely) which all of a sudden exists now.

I expect the typical "Clinton was a pussy", etc, etc type of response, but let's see if we can do better than that. Hmmm?

Welp, I await the atypical "my country can do absolutely no wrong" type of response. Be a good lemming and indulge me by all means.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 21, 2002, 4:05 pm

Now this thread is getting confusing. Could someone state the what the discussion is in simple terms and who is for which side of it.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 21, 2002, 4:28 pm

Then you ought to know better, Kelgar. There isn't another place on the planet that has the combination of opportunity, standard of living, stability and personal freedom that the United States citizen enjoys.

Name one. Go ahead.

As for our interest in Iraq, it's exactly the same as it was ELEVEN years ago, not four. Oil and a bastard dictator who has repeatedly lied and broken agreements with most of the countries on this planet and subverted funds from charitable organizations targetted to relieve poverty among his own people in order to bolster his personal wealth.

And for the record, I would leave this country before I would go to war at the behest of a piece of shit like Clinton.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 21, 2002, 4:35 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote: I have been to almost every European country, north African countries, a few middle east countries, and Russia. While OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of those countries are great to visit, and most are crap piles, there is no place like America. I took small things like running water and a toilet in a public bathroom for granted. Never again. Believe it or not, the friendliest places I ever visited were Israel and Russia...Russian families would invite you to dine with them and sleep in their homes instead of paying for a hotel. Not many countries out there that have a population that is that hospitable.

A page ago you were talking about them invading us.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 21, 2002, 4:55 pm

I'm arguing the fact that there's always ulterior selfish gains in US foreign policies. That nothing we do is ever purely out of altruistic or humanitarian intentions. That OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of our actions are stupidly justified (read: going to war with Iraq due to the blocked UN inspections team which occured 4 years ago, effectively bringing up the question: Why the fuck are we worried about them producing nuclear weapons now and not making it a serious issue 4 years ago?).

The others are generally saying "we are the world's police force, we bail others out, save their asses, etc, etc" in effect painting the US as the do-gooder boy scout types who set all the world's wrongs to right.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 4:58 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote: I have been to almost every European country, north African countries, a few middle east countries, and Russia. While OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of those countries are great to visit, and most are crap piles, there is no place like America. I took small things like running water and a toilet in a public bathroom for granted. Never again. Believe it or not, the friendliest places I ever visited were Israel and Russia...Russian families would invite you to dine with them and sleep in their homes instead of paying for a hotel. Not many countries out there that have a population that is that hospitable.
A page ago you were talking about them invading us.

and your point is?

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 21, 2002, 5:08 pm

Lol, I never argued about the standard of living in the US. When I said "shitpile that is our current domestic state", it referred to our recession and Bush's ineffectual plans for recovery. How we've massively increased spending and have little to show for it after two years of his presidency.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 21, 2002, 5:12 pm

Ahhhh I understand now Kelgar. Thanks. I agree with your points somewhat. Granted, the US has motives beyond all that which is made public and on the surface seem self serving but I think (hope) they are considering a bigger picture when they do what they do.

Personally I hate the thought of being the world's police force. That is what the UN is supposed to be doing. As for why we are more worried about Iraq attaining nuclear weapons/power now as opposed to before I think deals with the fact that we think they will actually use them now. The Towers brought a lot of things into focus that weren't so clear before. Now we know what it means to feel afraid and unsafe. So maybe our motivation is based on paranoia, and I don't disagree with that.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 5:18 pm

Could not agree more Bubba. UN could be the worlds police force, but man is that a scary thought. I would rather live in a world where several countries have power, for checks and balances, rather than a universal DO AS I SAY regime.

Valgul · Post by **Valgul** » October 21, 2002, 5:44 pm

UN = universal DO AS I SAY regime.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 21, 2002, 5:53 pm

oh valgul you're so politically informed. wanna cyber?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 5:54 pm

actually "UN=DO AS I SAY...C'MON, WILL YA?" regime. lol

Valgul · Post by **Valgul** » October 21, 2002, 6:09 pm

I don't cyber with guys or lesbians.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 21, 2002, 6:26 pm

I'll cyber with lesbians.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 21, 2002, 6:28 pm

Ah, the smell of incensed democrat in the air......

I agree totally that we go to war to protect our interests, Kelgar. I would have someones ass in a sling at the ballot box if it were done any other way.

I 100%, categorically, inflexibly and utterly DISAGREE that Bush is responsible for our recession, just as I think it was stupid to credit Bush sr. and Clinton for the expansion.

Unless a major politician really, really fucks up (and I mean along the line of pushing legislation to forfeit US bonds), the white house has very little effect on the economy.

Look at it this way. We happen to have a political and economic interest in an area that has a shitball for a ruler. Why should we not clean it up?

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » October 21, 2002, 9:47 pm

It sickens me to see how the U.S. and many of you have so much disrespect towards the U.N. The U.N. security council was created to secure peace throughout the world. The United States was a major contributor to the laws that were set forth, and now the United States is breaking those exact same laws.

Check article 51 of the U.N. charter.

We do it because we can do it and know that we can get away with doing it. These actions, however, change how the rest of the world views us. Most Americans do not understand or even care about the rest of the globe, and one day this will come back to haunt us.

MortaniumIxtlan · Post by **MortaniumIxtlan** » October 21, 2002, 11:14 pm

Sadly, the U.N. is simply just a tool of the United States.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 11:38 pm

MortaniumIxtlan wrote:Sadly, the U.N. is simply just a tool.

Truer words were never spoken.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 21, 2002, 11:40 pm

Sadly, the U.N can't come to an agreement to order lunch until dinner is long past.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 21, 2002, 11:48 pm

Voronwe!

If you have "trouble" labeling Saddam as "evil" or "black", you sir have a labeling problem.

/rofl

Don't let your concern for preserving the "gray" areas in life cloud your common sense man.

As far as the US supporting Iraq back in the day, yep, we fucked up. America should be more far-sighted when dealing with foreign nations.

Xyun,

Take heart, I have gut feeling that in 10 years the US won't be so dependant on Middle East Oil because of alternate sources and new technology. When our dependance drops, those countries will be left alone.

I personaly like the idea buying Russian oil. Those fellas could use come megabucks right now to get their economy humming and those Saudi's could use a loss of megabucks to bankrupt their underground finacial support of fundimentalists.

It's all going to get better soon.

I feel it in my bones.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 21, 2002, 11:49 pm

I never said Bush was responsible for the recession, but I did point out that the typical GOP quick fix solution (read: spend money like crazy ; the higher the military budget, the better) has had little or no effect after 2 years of Duhbya's presidency.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 21, 2002, 11:56 pm

Kelgar wrote:I never said Bush was responsible for the recession, but I did point out that the typical GOP quick fix solution (read: spend money like crazy ; the higher the military budget, the better) has had little or no effect after 2 years of Duhbya's presidency.

Yea, we should fight terrorism on a shoe string budget and clip coupons. I am so glad you are not in charge...

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 22, 2002, 12:00 am

While I'm on a small tangent, could you imagine the impact of Fusion being figured out?

Imagine electrical power so cheap that all you paid for was the matainence of the power lines and plants.

A flat rate. Throw in some superconducting transmission lines and energy would suddenly be cheaper than dirt.

Oil would not be necessary for keeping things humming anymore. All the CRAP that happens because of oil dependance would dissipate.

Imagine that world. We're not too far off you know.

Consider this,

In 1899 my great grandmother was born, in 1985 she died.
In the lifetime of that one human, think of the technology advances.

radio
TV
flight
moon landing
easy access to information
globilization and ease of communication

In the span of that one person the world was changed dramatically.

Now consider what might happen in our lifetimes.....

It's going to knock your socks off!

Oil, pfft, I eagerly await the day when it's yesterday's news.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 22, 2002, 12:02 am

Spending money to fight terrorism is one thing. Trying to revive the old SDI (aka:Star Wars) program is another. The former we pretty much have no choice but to do while the latter is just another example of how retarded Reagan mule #2 is.

*edit* punctuation

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 22, 2002, 12:04 am

OH yea BTW

Anyone else find it interesting how the Dune series fits the whole Middle East power struggle thing nicely?

holy warriors, worldwide dependance on a isolated resource, that whole series makes me look at people like Osama with different eyes.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 22, 2002, 12:10 am

You do know we have a semi working SDI now right? We have lasers on Air Force jets that fly around and actually laser down missiles from miles away, you knew this though, right? You know the impact this technology could have on saving lives, right? You also know this technology helped Israel and the US develop even better versions of patriot missiles that shoot down incoming missiles within seconds of being launched and are in place right now and ready for use, right? So tell me how the star wars research was a waste of money again cause I missed that part...

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 22, 2002, 12:20 am

LOL.

US = House Corrino!
Israel = Harkonnens!
Arabs = Fremen!

1 and 2 fit surprisingly well. Ariel Sharon does look like a floating fatman. The Israelis are our goons whom we firmly planted in the region and aren't afraid to send aid to in the form of shock troops (However, they arent there to squeeze oil/The Spice out of the place).

Oh yeah, Osama Bin Laden = Paul Atreides, aka Muad dib! Err...that somehow feels like stretching it pretty damn thin.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 22, 2002, 12:30 am

Last time I checked, the SDI program was supposed to be an array of satellites that is capable of shooting down missles from space. Scrambling jet fighters to shoot down a missle when a launch is detected
!= what I'm talking about.

Also, the technical advisors for Reagan told him that there was no realistic chance at being able to make the SDI a reality. That sure didn't stop him from pumping several hundred billion dollars into something that wasn't going to work. Please tell me how that != a collosal waste of money.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » October 22, 2002, 12:35 am

Take heart, I have gut feeling that in 10 years the US won't be so dependant on Middle East Oil because of alternate sources and new technology. When our dependance drops, those countries will be left alone.

So you mean in 10 years USA will stop killing people for money? I'll be looking forward to it.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 22, 2002, 1:09 am

That door swings both ways. Sadly,,,,

Folks been killing folks for money as long as we've had history.

While I'm unsure of which specifics you refer, I do feel sad.

We're all so flawed at times.

I suppose a physicist would say Evil like Entropy, is always increasing. It was as if at some moment in the past, the world was set in motion from a state of perfection. Ever since that prime moment, the evil in us has degraded that perfection unto a point where we blow each up just in the fight for black goopy liquid.

Heh now of course Voronwe would say I cannot define evil. It's all a big fluffy amophous gray blob.

That's convienent I suppose, it keeps us from having to face the fact that we alone can't hack life, yet are held accountable. In general we give in to our selfishness at the expense of others.

OR,,,, it could be late, I could just of finished running 6 miles along side a big breasted woman that out paced me, and I could be doped up on a cough suppressant.

As Etain would say, *shrug*

G'night guys

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 22, 2002, 3:37 am

Kelgar wrote:Just remember that while you're chanting "We're gonna beat that sand nigger, Saddam, down so hard that his grandkids are gonna feel it" that most countries view us as a bunch of self righteous fucktards that need to wage war to feel good about ourselves (and to divert our attention from the shitpile that is our current domestic state).

As a Canadian I have to agree with Kelgar.

I think the republicans have created a "war" as it seems their approval ratings are bolstered by it. If only George Sr. could have prolonged the Gulf War I doubt Clinton would have beat him, George had great approval ratings during the war. It seems to me that George Jr. has learned from this mistake and is creating a perpetual war. I fully expect he will move on to another target after Iraq.

It seems to be working. The US economy is crashing and nobody seems to care. Your all too busy flag waving and spending money to go to war against a nation that is already in ruins.

To the republicans I'm interested on how you would rate Jr. on anything beyond the current "war". Do you even have anything to base this rating on?

Fallanthas wrote:Bub, here is a clue. Try living in another country for a year. Then come back and bitch about the state of America.

I wouldn't trade my colder climate or even the taxes (okay trading the taxes is tempting) for your crime rate. I'd rather not have to worry about my kids getting shot at school or being sniped myself while getting gas.

I'm also kind of fond of the fact that I don't have to worry about paying the doctor to save my life else he turn me away to die.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 22, 2002, 6:31 am

Kelgar wrote:Also, the technical advisors for Reagan told him that there was no realistic chance at being able to make the SDI a reality. That sure didn't stop him from pumping several hundred billion dollars into something that wasn't going to work. Please tell me how that != a collosal waste of money.

A lot of people credit Reagen and previous presidents with outspending the USSR so much that they simply collapsed economically, and that was their plan the entire time. The USSR just couldn't match the raw dollars the states was pouring into missiles and counter missiles.

I don't give him credit, but a lot of people do.

I don't see how anyone could be pleased about a trillion dollar missile defense system going in now when you have 767's slamming into skyscrapers. The only country in the world capable of reaching the US with a missile fired from their soil is Russia (and maybe canada if you like fired it right at the border, but no guarantees!), and they are not much of a threat.

Apologies to Pubin for knowing something else. I'm really sorry.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 22, 2002, 10:29 am

Doesn't China have a sophisticated ICBM system as well?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 22, 2002, 11:18 am

The US economy is crashing and nobody seems to care

Bullshit. The U.S. economy has gone through one hell of an adjustment due to overinflation in the tech markets. That's it.

Starting to come back around now. You can't put 17 trillion dollars a year in a mattress in the backyard, and the stock exchange is the only place on the planet that can move that kind of cash.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 22, 2002, 11:27 am

Bush stoke up a war just so he can stay in office?

Whoa man you should cut back on those X-files episodes.

Better yet you might shouldn't post so much, or the tri-lateral majestic 12 illuminati types might see you and quell your spreading the truth!

DUCK!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 22, 2002, 1:39 pm

Fallanthas: Why do you automatically assume that anyone who opposes war with Iraq is a democrat? For the record, I agree with Kelgar, and I am not a democrat.

Krimson: How effective do you think we have been in our fight against terrorism?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 22, 2002, 2:56 pm

Well considering Congress and Bush both said this war would take approximately 10 years...and they STRESSED this many times, 1/10th of the way through this war at this point, I'd say we are about where we should be. They made it abundantly clear that this would not be a 6 month campaign simply because there is no standing army to point your weapon at. We are fighting ghosts, and that gobbles up resources. I'd use the same tactic if I were them, you can't blame them (hit and run I mean, not killing innocents). In their eyes it's guerrilla warfare, in ours it's terrorism, tomato tomoto. Either way they are giving us just the fight that our leaders said they would, a tough one.

There is a huge global awareness to spot terrorism and root it out...an awareness that was non-existant over a year ago. In that aspect alone we are leaps and bounds ahead on the fight. We have the entire world behind us on the war against terrorism that's no doubt. We have hardly no one on our side when it comes to spreading that campaign to target a single country (Iraq) as most view these as two seperate issues, and I agree that they are even though I am Republican. I am totally happy to have world support against terrorism, and zero support for fighting Iraq. One we NEED global support for, the other I could give a ratts butt who does not like it, we do what we must. Those are my thoughts.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 22, 2002, 3:00 pm

the fact that the "war against terror" will probably last ~5-10 years is reason enough to tread cautiously into a potential war with Iraq.

We are going to need the cooperation of the peoples of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and many other nations to help us root out Al Queda and similar organizations.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 22, 2002, 3:12 pm

I don't believe the war on terror will ever end. As we systematicly shut down existing cells new cells will form. The only difference is that while the earlier cells may have had a direction or cause the new cells will only have hatred against us. One country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter.

(For some reason I keep thinking of Red Dawn.)

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 22, 2002, 3:16 pm

[quote="Voronwë"]the fact that the "war against terror" will probably last ~5-10 years is reason enough to tread cautiously into a potential war with Iraq.quote]

I agree. I guess it's a liberal/conservative checks and balances in our government that's trying to slow things down a bit on confronting Iraq, at least until we have more support. I hate to admit it, but it seems to be working recently with hardline anti-Iraqi-war Russia and France about to come aboard. We'll see. It would be great if it works and we do get global support for it. I'd like global support, don't get me wrong, but I am for regime change with or without help...with preferred. but like I said earlier, I could give a ratts butt who does not like it, we do what we must.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 22, 2002, 3:45 pm

As much as I would like to see us level Iraq, we should put the presuure on the UN to step up and pressure Saddam into the inspections. Let the rest of the world deal with him. It is not us that will get nuked by his crazy ass....the other countries in the region should be the ones worried.

As for the recession "caused" by Bush, he had the economy spurred and recovering after he instituted an additional tax refund. I don't think he could exactly control some lunatics that thought it was a great idea to destroy the largest trade centers on the planet. Then you have several criminals stealing hundreds of millions of dollars in large scandals on the heels of that. Add in an increasing number of tech companies that have all over-reported their estimated incomes and you have a mess. Anyone care to explain just exactly how George Dubyah Bush or his White House advisors could be behind all this?

Post by **Xouqoa** » October 22, 2002, 3:48 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Anyone care to explain just exactly how George Dubyah Bush or his White House advisors could be behind all this?

Since when do you need logical points and arguments to support outlandish claims on a messageboard?!?!1/

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 22, 2002, 5:36 pm

Sueven,

I never said anything about someone opposing a war being a democrat. I was basing the jibe off of comments similar to the following.....

I never said Bush was responsible for the recession, but I did point out that the typical GOP quick fix solution (read: spend money like crazy ; the higher the military budget, the better) has had little or no effect after 2 years of Duhbya's presidency.

**Edit**

Is it just me, or is using the terms 'GOP' and 'spend money like crazy' is tne same sentance really, really odd?

Kaluian_CT · Post by **Kaluian_CT** » October 22, 2002, 9:09 pm

I think there are no clear cut answers to these questions. War is horrible, both on the soldiers that wage it, and the civilains who endure it.

Coming from a family packed with relatives that have served in every U.S. War since WW1, I can only say that war devistates those that have served. My father has had frequent and severe panic attacks ever since Vietnam. My great grandfather was severly burned by some gas in WW1. My mothers father died in WW2. My fathers father was shot down after being wounded severly, then was a POW in Germany for 18 months. An uncle of mine no longer has the use of his arm below his elbow. Another uncle of mine uses a voice machine after having a large portion of his throat and voice box removed due to Agent Orange. My brother serves in the US Navy flying the F/A-18 off the George Washington.

My family has endured great pain in defense of The United States and it's allies. Do I want more war? No, I love my brother dearly and I would be crushed if anything happened to him. Yet, I also expect my country to do something about terrorism. I expect my country to take whatever means necessary to keeps its citizens safe from it's enemies.

I expect my country to take action, not for revenge, but to prevent it from ever happening again.
Is war the answer? I wish it wasn't, and maybe there is a better way to resolve this conflict, but I don't have that answer do you? Do you think someone like Saddam understands reasoning of any other nature than brute force? He is a psychopathic murderer of men, woman AND children. He kills without prejudice, even killing his own people, and he is the leader of the 3rd largest army in the world. Do you believe if he had the ability to nuke the United States that he wouldn't,..that instead he would be a responsible leader?

One thing I feel confident that we can all agree on is that Hitler was an evil man that caused death and destruction on,...at that time, an unpresendented scale. Those of you who have said that there are no comparisons between Hitler and Saddam are simply blind. The ONLY differencce between them is Hitler had easily the most advanced military in the world at that time. If Saddam had a US type arsenal, how great a shape do you think not only the middle east, but the World would be in now?

Do I want more war? Hell no, I hate it, but I also hate that there are large and dangerous armies led my psychopathic murderers that threaten the security of my country. I hate that he cannot be reasoned with. I hate that he is willing to sacrifice his people in order to reasearch and manufacture weapons of mass destrution, but those are the facts, and it would be irresponsible in my view to stand idle and allow it to continue.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 23, 2002, 5:05 am

Since when did Iraq have a large and dangerouse army?

I agree he is a madman, but he posed fuck all threat to the U.S until Bush started it all up again.

Why should the U.S be allowed nuclear weapons if Iraq isn't? Bleh, you humans and your wars.

Btw, I'm not ranting at anyone, just ranting in general^^

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » October 23, 2002, 2:09 pm

Teenybloke wrote:Since when did Iraq have a large and dangerouse army?

I agree he is a madman, but he posed fuck all threat to the U.S until Bush started it all up again.

Why should the U.S be allowed nuclear weapons if Iraq isn't? Bleh, you humans and your wars.

Btw, I'm not ranting at anyone, just ranting in general^^

1. Iraq has had a huge military ever since their war with Iran ended. Dangerous is the fact that he does not hesitate to use chemical weapons that are inhumane, he HAS used them.

2. Do you honestly think it's OK to let Iraq have nukes, considering their track record over the past 2 decades ie. using bios on his own people, trying to conquer Kuwait, wanting Israel wiped off the face of the planet, funding terrorism, trying to assassinate Bush Sr.

Do you REALLY want someone that hungry to have Nukes? I mean, honestly, without trying to save face or anything...be honest, you would feel perfectly at peace with him having them?

Here is the dangerous part, what is the purpose of nukes anyway? In todays age, you have nukes as a last ditch defense if your country is about to be overrun, demolished, eliminated. I mean really, that's what it all boils down to, elimination security. They won't be used, by intelligent people at least, over a trade dispute, a ship being sank, or a disagreement in economics...at least not against CIVILIAN targets. So why would Saddham not use them if his country is about to be overrun. Any other world leader would if they were about to be pounded to dust. In that aspect, you'd have to agree he would have the right to use em.

The entire situation sucks, maybe we'll get lucky and it will end peacfully. I am normally an optimist, but common sense kinda tends to cancel that out.

-edit wow, just realized you said that you agree that he was a madman, how can you say that and think it's ok for him to own nukes? That's an insane statement don't you think?

VeeshanVault

Jihad This!

sure...

...

ha ha

Re: ha ha

lol

yes, somewhat

uh huh..

Re: uh huh..