The French...

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masteen
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The French...

Post by masteen »

Hanging's too good for 'em! Burning's too good for 'em! They deserve to be torn into little bitty pieces and buried alive. That goes double for French-Canadiens...

Just because you're paranoid...
Last edited by masteen on August 12, 2002, 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Revs »

All roads lead to Stragi :wink:
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Post by *~*stragi*~* »

fuck france
i hope it burns
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Post by Latys/Talys »

circulez, ya rien à lire
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Re: The French...

Post by Animalor »

masteen wrote:That goes double for French-Canadiens...
Here's a big FU from this french canadian =)
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Post by *~*stragi*~* »

omg talys is the only good french person. sorry talys
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Post by Zvenn Eaglefist »

if your french canadien does that really count as french?
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Post by Lexien »

Masteen stop generalising and don't put french canadians in the same boat as the french from france !

Kinda irritates me to say the least.

Each people are unique in their own way.

Some are dumbasses and some other are even dumber... but it is not because they speak a certain language that they have to be stupid by default...

kthnxbye
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Post by Aaeamdar »

Masteen stop generalising and don't put french canadians in the same boat as the french from france!
So, bagging on people from other cultures is biggoted and wrong, and besides which, French-Canadians aren't scum like the French. Is that what you were trying to say?

Heh, that reminds me of what Michael Caine in AP3 - "There are two kinds of people I can't stand. Those with an intollerance for other cultures and the Dutch"
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Post by Voronwë »

ROFL,

anyways maybe people wouldnt hate the french if they werent such intolerable, insufferable assholes :P


but to be honest the few french guys i've ever been friends with have been great people.

so the asshole thing, i'm not sure if it sticks. i won't let Jerry Lewis slide though.

i'd say this particular brand of French whining (the skating fix) is a Euro-wide thing. Look at how the Italians and Spaniards cried when they were sent packing from the World Cup.
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Post by Atokal »

Well I am Canadian,

You want to talk about biggoted, how about living in a country where the cry baby french have instituted language laws. All things must appear in french and english except in Quebec where it is against the law to have store signage in English. Further there can be no favouritism shown in size of type or font. My God the Quebecer's are 1 province out of 10. You want to speak french ... so be it but don't come here and whine when someone calls you out for being the sanctimonious, hypocrytical, biggoted asses that you are... well most of you.

Judge Jetté, in a speech in 1890, evoked the feeling of Canadians when the "French" flag reappeared on the river in 1855: "Oui, je me souviens, ce sont nos gens" (Yes, I remember, those are our people)

Cheers a Proud Canadian.

btw je me souviens ... I remember the Plains of Abraham.
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Post by Katria »

I wish America would institute some language laws. Either speak English or get out. Nothing drives me more insane than people that move here (not talking about tourists) and then refuse to learn the language. I wouldn't move to Germany and not learn how to speak German. I wouldn't move to France and not learn how to speak French.
Last edited by Katria on September 3, 2002, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fallanthas »

Katria,



/salute.


It's not that much to ask, is it?
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Post by Voronwë »

Either speak English or get the fuck out
i'll refer you to the first amendment


really bugs me when people basically say stuff like "do it my way or you are un-American". which of course is a totally un-American thing to say.

People have to speak English or know somebody who does to interface with the government in most places. Certainly spanish is a language that you can function with if it is the only language you speak here.

But basically guys the open market in the US dictates that you must speak English to truly have a decent chance for economic prosperity.

you won't see somebody getting a good job saying shit like "why you axe me that?" in an interview.

the market dictates the benefits of speaking English. Legislation is unneccessary to that end. If as time passes the market dictates that it is beneficial to speak spanish, then you better learn how to say "Cuidado, piso mojado". But regardless, that is the fundamentals of this society, a largely free and open market.

if you don't like THAT, then you should move to some place like Quebec or otherwise where they do heavily legislate a certain culture. I doubt you'll like it.
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Post by Aabidano »

My God the Quebecer's are 1 province out of 10. You want to speak french ... so be it but don't come here and whine when someone calls you out for being the sanctimonious, hypocrytical, biggoted asses that you are... well most of you.
Couldn't have said it better.

I'm an american. I'm not african-american, cuban-american or whatever-american. All those terms serve to do is accentuate the differences in between people. And aggravate me, but thats not too hard most days :)
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free - except the ones that don't speak English." ?

:o
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Post by Voronwë »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free - except the ones that don't speak English." ?

:o
in fairness Drolgin, it was THE FUCKING FRENCHIES who chissled that :P
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Post by Bubba Grizz »

I hate to sound like Archie Bunker here but I feel that if you live here you should at the very least speak the language. At least before applying for citizenship.
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Post by Katria »

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free - except the ones that don't speak English." ?
Not at all. If you can't speak English, you're no less welcome (to me for whatever that's worth) than someone that can. But if you're going to stay, learn THIS country's language instead of expecting THIS country to learn YOUR language. If an American were to move to another country and expect everyone to speak English, how the flames and insults would fly.

I would never consider insulting someone for speaking bad English in America and would be more genuinely impressed that they were at least trying. However when I walk into every local business and half of the occupants in it are babbling away in some foreign language, I find that rude. When someone gets mad at ME because THEY can't understand English and what I'm saying, something isn't right.

Why is it wrong for 1 person to be expected to learn the language of a country they've moved to, but it's not when you want 100 million people to have to cater to that person?

Would you permanently move your family to Italy and not teach your children and yourself Italian?
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Post by KilornCloudwalker »

Damn, Katria.. Not that I disagree with you at all but I think someone ran out of Motrin this morning :)

I've always felt the same way, even if it is unamerican...but I know that if I even went to visit another country, I'd do my best to at least learn rudimentary phrases out of respect for the country's language and culture.. Maybe that's just me... but it seems many move to the Land of Freedom and expect to just fit in without any effort at all. If I had a dime for every caller I get in that I can not even understand their problem because of poorly spoken english, I'd be rich enough to not need to do crappy tech support again. To me, it seems many have little to no respect for the english language.. and before you come out with the old 'English is mandatory is schools all over the world' crap..then why are they NOT using it when they move to the country where it is the dominant language? I shouldn't have to spent 10 minutes of a cab ride trying to explain my destination because the driver can't be bothered to take the time to learn the language of the country he resides in...the country that lets him drive a cab for a living and save money to send home and bring his whole non-english speaking family over here with him.

Bitter much? Yeah... As I hang up the phone here at work with yet another person in New York who forced me to waste 8 minutes of a call trying to understand that he has no dial tone because he couldn't read an error message and his command of the english langauge is so faulty and his accent so heavy, I would have been better served to just hang up on him to begin with and let him figure out to plug the fucking phone cord in on his own time and not mine.

Okay... maybe I need more nicotine...
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Post by Katria »

Interesting news article today. How true it is. People outside of America need to understand that the American government is not a good representation of the majority of people in America in any way. We hate the way some things are going just as much as you do. Hell, we can't even be trusted to vote. We have to have an electoral body to do the actual voting. So don't blame us for the president - we didn't vote him in and shooting him is generally frowned upon.
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Global warmth for U.S. after 9/11 turns to frost
Wed Aug 14, 8:33 AM ET
Ellen Hale USA TODAY

OXFORD, England -- On a packed train out of London recently to this historic college town, a young American woman struck up a conversation with her seatmate, a nattily dressed older British man. They chatted amiably about Oxford until she worked up the courage to ask what was weighing on her mind:

''Why,'' she blurted out, ''does everybody hate us?''

The man paused -- but didn't disagree -- before proceeding to enumerate the reasons, from U.S. foreign policies to the seeping influence of American popular culture.

In the shock wave that followed the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, many Americans found themselves asking why so many people in Muslim countries hate the United States. But the anti-American sentiment has turned into a contagion that is spreading across the globe and infecting even the United States' most important allies.

In virulent prose, newspapers criticize the United States. Politicians ferociously attack its foreign policies, especially the Bush administration's plans to attack Iraq. And regular citizens launch into tirades with American friends and visitors.

Here in Britain, the United States' staunchest friend, snide remarks and downright animosity greet many Americans these days. It's not just religious radicals and terrorists who resent the United States anymore.

''Now, it's everyone,'' says Allyson Stewart-Allen, a consultant from California who has lived in London 15 years and heads International Marketing Partners, which advises European companies on how to do business with Americans. The sea change in attitude toward the United States, she says, has ''profoundly'' altered her advice to clients:

She now must counsel them to resist ''taking digs'' at her countrymen.

What happened, many Americans are wondering, to that wave of sympathy and stockpile of global goodwill they encountered after Sept. 11?

''It was squandered,'' says Meghnad Desai, director of the Institute for Global Governance at the London School of Economics and Political Science and a member of the House of Lords.

''America dissipated the goodwill out of its arrogance and incompetence. A lot of people who would never ever have considered themselves anti-American are now very distressed with the United States,'' he says.

Desai and others blame what seems to be a wave of new U.S. policies that they regard as selfish and unilateral, stretching back to President Bush ( news - web sites)'s refusal last year to support the international treaty on global warming ( news - web sites).

Many are enraged by Bush's support for steel tariffs and farm subsidies, his refusal to involve the United States in the new international criminal court and what is widely regarded abroad as one-sided support for Israel and its prime minister, Ariel Sharon ( news - web sites).

The rash of corporate malfeasance and blanket arrest of terrorism suspects after Sept. 11 further fuels critics, who say the United States preaches democracy, human rights and free enterprise -- but doesn't practice them.

Growing gap with Europe

In a recent article in Policy Review magazine, Robert Kagan, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, says the divide between the United States and Europe is getting wider than ever as the continents go their different ways -- one operating on a foreign policy based on unilateralism and coercion, the other on diplomacy and persuasion.

Europeans, he says, have ''come to view the United States simply as a rogue colossus, in many respects a bigger threat to (their) pacific ideals than Iraq or Iran.''

The differences, he says, are deep and likely to endure.

''Why do people attack Americans?'' asks Tiny Waslandek, a social worker in Amsterdam, Netherlands. ''Because they have a big, big mouth and they mind everybody's business.''

Bush's plan to topple Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein ( news - web sites) is stoking anti-American hostility to bonfire levels. In Germany earlier this month, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder launched his re-election campaign by denouncing what he derisively called Bush's proposed military ''adventures'' in Iraq. In England, the new head of the Anglican Church and other leading bishops circulated a petition proclaiming that any attack would be illegal and immoral.

Linked to Iraq and Israel

''My sense is that much of the rampant anti-Americanism we see now is very much linked to a war with Iraq and the Israel-Palestine issue,'' says Mary Kaldor, a London-based scholar on international relations.

In the popular Straw Poll BBC radio show July 26, Kaldor debated with Washington Post reporter T. R. Reid whether ''American power is the power of the good.'' She argued that the U.S. role as the sole superpower was a danger to the rest of the world.

At the end of the program, 70% of the studio audience said it agreed with her.

Anti-Americanism is nothing new. Surveys a decade ago in Britain showed that one in four people here are what pollster Robert Worcester, a transplanted Kansan who runs the Market Opinion Research Institute, calls ''culturally anti-American.''

(According to a survey taken in 1989, one in five said they found American accents irritating.)

To some degree, the resentment against the United States is inevitable now that it's the only remaining superpower. Even so, Desai, who says that he is ''very, very pro-America'' and that people forget the United States saved Europe from itself twice in the past century, notes that America has been on top for a long time. ''So what is happening now is not the inevitable result of being No. 1.''

(Desai and many other Europeans give Washington credit for dismantling the hard-line Taliban regime in Afghanistan ( news - web sites), which harbored Osama bin Laden ( news - web sites) and his al-Qaeda terrorist network).

In recent months, polls have shown a less-than subtle change in attitudes toward Americans, U.S. foreign policy and, in particular, the president from Texas. British newspapers reported Thursday that secret polls commissioned by Prime Minister Tony Blair ( news - web sites) revealed ''spectacular unpopularity'' for Bush among voters here.

In April, the German news magazine Der Spiegel reported that less than half (48%) of Germans consider the United States a guarantor of peace in the world, compared with 62% who did in 1993. Nearly half -- 47% -- rated Americans as aggressive rather than peaceful (34%). And 44% called them superficial.

Meanwhile, in an April poll for the Council on Foreign Relations, based in Washington, Europeans proved highly critical of Bush and what they label his unilateral approach to foreign policy: 85% of Germans, 80% of French, 73% of Britons and 68% of Italians said they believed that the United States is acting in its own interest in the war on terrorism.

Philadelphia transplant Susan Steele, head of Forum management company in London, has noticed that many Europeans have started using the phrase ''that's American,'' which is shorthand, Steele says, for ''not taking anyone else into consideration.''

''People here were truly shocked and horrified by Sept. 11,'' says Marjorie Thompson, an American who runs the consulting group C3I in London. ''But since then, they've come to believe that the United States is using that as an excuse for a unilateral foreign policy, and they're starting to make sweeping anti-American comments.''

'Oppressed opinion'

Even British pop star George Michael and tennis pro Martina Navratilova have taken swings at the United States. Last month, Michael declared he was ''definitely not anti-American'' after receiving criticisms for his new single, Shoot the Dog, which lampooned the relationship between Bush and Blair.

In June, Navratilova, a Czech native who became a U.S. citizen 20 years ago, had to defend herself after writing an article for a German newspaper in which she said that the United States now ''oppressed opinion'' and that decisions there were based ''solely on how much money will come out of it.''

That the United States is suffering an image problem abroad has become obvious at home. Two weeks ago, the White House announced it would create a permanent Office of Global Communications to enhance America's image around the world. At the same time, the House of Representatives approved spending $225 million on cultural and information programs abroad, mostly targeting Muslim countries, to correct what Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., called a ''cacophony of hate and misinformation'' about the United States.

Meanwhile, the Council on Foreign Relations simultaneously issued a biting report warning the Bush administration that it urgently needs to upgrade its efforts at public diplomacy to counteract the country's ''shaky'' image abroad.

It called for a range of actions, from increased spending on polling of foreign public opinion and more training of foreign service officers to giving journalists from other countries access to top U.S. government officials.

'Ominous' consequences

The consequences of neglecting such public diplomacy are ''ominous,'' warns Peter Peterson, chairman of the council and of The Blackstone Group, a New York private investment bank. He says bin Laden has ''gleefully exploited'' the United States' poor public image.

''Around the world, from Western Europe to the Far East, many see the United States as arrogant, hypocritical, self-absorbed, self-indulgent and contemptuous of others,'' Peterson says. ''This is not a Muslim country issue. It has metastasized to the rest of the world and includes some of our closest European allies.''

New Yorker Julia Magnet, a journalist who just moved to London, found that out when she decided to throw a Fourth of July party for British friends. Between grilled sausages and chocolate cake, her friends launched an attack on Bush and the United States. They called Bush a ''homicidal maniac'' and ''stupid'' and the United States the ''world's biggest terrorist.''

Magnet, 22, was forgiving, and she labeled their assault ''uninformed'' and ''ignorant.''

Nevertheless, she was surprised by the venom in their words.

''What I hear from people all the time now is that we're going to go to war with just about everyone and we don't need a coalition to do it,'' Magnet says.

''It's obvious they are very, very disturbed by the power America now has.''
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Post by kyoukan »

Lexien wrote:Masteen stop generalising and don't put french canadians in the same boat as the french from france !
Yeah, at least the french from France are culturally relevant. French Canadians are nothing but a bunch of whiney, racist, money-sucking parasites on an otherwise outstanding country.
Last edited by kyoukan on August 14, 2002, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wulfran »

Sorry Lexien, I find it laughable that anyone would try and denounce stereotyping and then follow it up with a slogan from a Molson's add campagn that was built on a stereotypical rant against the "stupidity" and 'insensitivity" our of American neighbours. I never could understand the popularity of the Joe Canada rants to begin with... to me they seemed exactly what you are against.

That this is also coming from a Quebecer is also laughable. As Atokal mentioned, the Province of Quebec has made an art of discrimination while claiming to be a victim of the same. Please recall that Quebec refused to have anything to do with constitutional reforms which did not guarantee them at least 25% of the seats in Parliament, regardless of the population of the province, in the name of "preserving French culture in Canada". No other nationality inside this country enjoys such a shroud of "cultural" protection: it is expected that if someone wants to preserve and carry on traditions, it is allowed within the confines of Canadian law. Even when the Quebec language laws were struck down by the Supreme Court, the Parti Quebois invoked the "not-withstanding" clause of the Canadian constitution (which has yet to be ratified by the Quebec provincial government, even though it was brought about in 1980 by Pierre Trudeau, a great example of a French Canadian double-talking politician, if one ever lived!) to allow this legalized discrimination.

I guess we COULD blame the Americans for some of this: if they wouldn't have been so unruly and later rebelled, then the sucessive British governors of Quebec wouldn't have felt the need to be so accomodating after Wolff beat Montcalm's ass on the Plains of Abraham. The French colonists could have just been assimilated into the British Empire or exiled, instead of being pampered and used to obtaining concessions from their governments. (Damn you rebellious yanks!!! If you would have been hard working, peaceable colonists, none of this would have happened! :p)
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Post by Truant »

Well said Wulf.

And I find it funny, Katria, that you post a news article exploring why the world hates america after you wrote your rant. Your rant pretty much sums up why people hate america.

Not the speaking english thing, obviously. But, more generally, the arrogant, inexcusable rudeness with which americans constantly dish out in all forms of interaction. Domestic and Foreign. America is a country of seperatists and elitists. America considers itself above other countries and above people from other countries.

I can see why people would hate Americans, fuck it's REALLY obvious.


and as a side -
You said
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Someone did not too long ago, I'm sure you'll remember it.
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Post by laneela »

Katria,

My father's side of the family are some of those rejects that came from Cuba and my siblings and I are some of those kids that were taught Spanish at home and didn't learn English until we went to school and spoke it there. I'd venture to say that my family is more succesful and educated than a lot of people you know and that my English and usage of is superior to more than a few of your friends. One of my brothers is a lawyer, another an architect, another a teacher and my sister and I are in managerial positions. Maybe my parents DID know what they were doing! *gasp* We have the benefit of speaking two languages fluently in a country where that is an asset in your personal life and in business.

I could get personal with you since you were obviously and ignorantly oblivious to the fact that you might be offending some people in a very personal way with your ridiculous generalizations BUT I won't stoop to your level. So basically what I'm trying to say (I'll translate it so that someone of your maturity level can understand it) is: you're rubber and I'm glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

edit: what'dya know... I got personal anyway.
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Post by Katria »

So basically what you're saying Laneela, is that members of your family learned the language and are now successful.

Bravo. Point proven. Kudos to them for their accomplishments. The "rejects" I speak about are those that refuse to learn the language and then get upset when the population around them doesn't understand a word they say, or when the population around them takes issue with their lack of ability to communicate.

Case in point. A nice woman across the street from me is spanish. Can't speak a word of English. Turns out her young daughter had gone missing. She runs over to my house in tears. I answer the door and proceed to spend the next 20 minutes trying to understand what the hell she's crying about. Had she known English, ANY English, I could have immediately known and started helping. Or better yet, she probably wouldnt have gotten hung up on by the Police department when she called them, because THEY could have fucking understood her.

Another case in point. I called up for pizza delivery and spent 15 minutes on the phone with someone who couldn't speak English and kept messing up the order. Trying to be nice and understanding (hey, at least they were trying ot speak it) I asked for someone else. THEY got mad at ME because *I* couldn't speak a language that THEY could understand. This crap happens nearly every single day in my area.

If you think it's my responsibility to learn Spanish so that people like this don't have to learn the language of this country - you get your choice of cheeks to kiss.
And I find it funny, Katria, that you post a news article exploring why the world hates america after you wrote your rant. Your rant pretty much sums up why people hate america.
People hate America because we have the audacity to expect them to learn English if they move here? Wow, there's a revelation. And here I thought it was because of our jackass government and the things they did.
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Post by Animalor »

kyoukan type-R wrote:Yeah, at least the french from France are culturally relevant. French Canadians are nothing but a bunch of whiney, racist, money-sucking parasites on an otherwise outstanding country.
Kyoukan calling someone else a parasite. That's pretty fucking funny
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Post by Truant »

Katria wrote:
And I find it funny, Katria, that you post a news article exploring why the world hates america after you wrote your rant. Your rant pretty much sums up why people hate america.
People hate America because we have the audacity to expect them to learn English if they move here? Wow, there's a revelation. And here I thought it was because of our jackass government and the things they did.
Are you ignorant? Read the next fucking sentence after the quote that you have taken from me. Hello? Let me spell it out for you.
Not the speaking english thing, obviously. But, more generally, the arrogant, inexcusable rudeness with which americans constantly dish out in all forms of interaction.
Which was the entire tone of your 'rant'...

You truly are a fucking genius.
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Post by Searyx »

Am I alone in thinking that Kyoukan is a man?

Am I obsessed?

Is my fly open?
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Post by Akaran_D »

You think kyucan is a man, yet you have yer pants open.

Yes, you are obsessed.
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Post by Aabidano »

decisions there were based ''solely on how much money will come out of it.''
That pretty much sums up our current governments world policy. While it may not be obvious to the average CNN/Fox news watching zombie, it's very clear to the rest of the world. If you listen to the BBC or independent US newcasts, you hear a different story that is fed to the US masses. The arrogance and greed that it shows in all it's aspects is at the root of our image problems.

I've worked all over the middle east and asia, and had nothing but good experiences with the people that live there. Including some that dislike/hate our govenment. They generally don't seem to extend that to the people.

The town I live in has a pretty heavy hispanic population during the winter (Carnys/migrant workers). The county as a whole was ~30% latino as of a couple years ago. Most speak some english, enough to get by at any rate. The second generation+ folks generally speak both fluently, regardless of what is spoken at home. Those that don't speak any english at all are the minority, and will generally take one of their kids along to translate :)

War is good for the economy, invest your children. (Was a 60s anti-war poster/slogan)
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Post by Zedul »

Not the speaking english thing, obviously. But, more generally, the arrogant, inexcusable rudeness with which americans constantly dish out in all forms of interaction. Domestic and Foreign. America is a country of seperatists and elitists. America considers itself above other countries and above people from other countries.

I can see why people would hate Americans, fuck it's REALLY obvious.
Yet everyone still wants to live here.... why? Because as seperatist, elistist, and rude as we are, we are not as seperatist, elitist, and as rude as most other countries. The only reason there is an "anti-american" sentiniment is because of pure Jealously, we have a higher standard of living than anyone else in the world and yet everyone else in the world wants to impose "their" ideology on us.

My ancestors fled europe, because it was a fucking mess and they were slaughtering each other over there all the time and there was no religious or political freedom. Years later they were STILL slaughtering each other and the French and the English begged us to bring our armies over there to save them, and we did so, and left a significant portion of an entire generation of our young men, dead on their soil, to free THEM, to protect THEM.

So now they hate us.

Great.

No good deed goes unpunished.
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Fuck Europe

Post by masteen »

Just because Saddam has behaved for the last decade doesn't change the fact that he's still the same crazy motherfucker who decided that he had a divine mandate to invade Kuwait. Do they actually think that his dreams of Arabic empire have been held back by anything other than OUR enforcement of the UN no-fly zones and economic sanctions?
To our allies who fought so poorly and surrendered so readily, we salute you!
The only Europeans who even have room to talk about the US are the Swedes (the only country with a higher standard of living) and the Brits (because they have balls). Every other country on that continent of little bitches can eat shit.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Drolgin Steingrinder
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Masteen said:
The only Europeans who even have room to talk about the US are the Swedes (the only country with a higher standard of living)
Bullshit.

Name me one other country in the so-called western world that concentrates the wealth in the upper 5% of the population like the US does.

Name me one other country in the so-called western world that has as large a percentage of its children living below the poverty line.

High standard of living? My ass.



Note: I don't hate the US. I think the foreign policies of the United States are reminiscent of 18th century robber barons, I do not approve of the US as the world's policeman, but I do not hate the people of the US.
IT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT; SOMETHING IS WRONG
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Post by Nick »

Well put Drolgin. I have nothing against Americans at all, generalising is not something I care to get into anymore.

Their government is however (not a generalisation) a worthless sack of shit.

I hope Bush burns, everyone else is cool :)
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Post by masteen »

Name me one other country in the so-called western world that concentrates the wealth in the upper 5% of the population like the US does.
If you think America is the only country with a large population of the super-rich, you're fucking deluded. The only difference is the European rich have citizenship in some fucking Carribbean tax haven to keep their money. My friend's parents are French by birth, but have dual-citizenship in the VI or Bahamas or something, have more money than God, and laugh at the concept of paying taxes.
Name me one other country in the so-called western world that has as large a percentage of its children living below the poverty line.
Brazil, Chile, pretty much all of South America.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Post by Nick »

Masteen, maybe it should be rephrased as 'first world' as opposed to western.

Neither Brazil nor Chile can be seen in the same light as the U.S, the U.K or France etc

Also Masteen, can you touch my bewbs? Prs?
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Post by masteen »

Well, you see Teeny, those countries, especially Mexico, send a huge number of illegal immigrants our way. Most of whom don't speak English and have no marketable skills. They have babies here, boom, we have another "American child" living below the poverty line. Thus, I think it's statistically invalid to compare our rates of child poverty to yours.

Regarding your boobs: Make a mangina and we'll talk ;)
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Post by kyoukan »

AniRask wrote:Kyoukan calling someone else a parasite. That's pretty fucking funny
Shouldn't you be working at your job the federal government handed to you to shut you the christ up from your fucking whining for one second? Oh right, french canadians are lazy as well as stupid; I wasn't thinking there for a second.
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Post by Nick »

Masteen, /tell teenybitch
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Atokal
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Post by Atokal »

Uhhh show me another country in the world that has so many living above the poverty line. Show me another country in the world that has so many people who want to emigrate there. Does Sweden have an open door policy to immigration or is it like Germany where you can go work there but can never obtain a citizenship.

Speaking of poverty lines I would like to see Swedens record on foreign aid to these countries; pretty much the whole continent of Africa, South America and your neighbours in the old russian satellite countries. So if anyone want to bash the USA on its foreign policies be sure you check the WHOLE fucking picture. For the record I am a Canadian and think the States is the greatest country in the world.

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Post by KilornCloudwalker »

That was another point I wanted to mention... They want to bash the hell out of the US Government..but they will still come begging for aid and take it from us. I say if they don't like the US, give us back all the money we've given over the past 200 years and we'll call it even! Elitist my ass... Funny, its our elitist and decadent country that's paid out billions of dollars to these loudmouthed bastidges... "You suck, US, but can we borrow a billion?" Fuck alla that...
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Post by Sueven »

In regards to English as the official language:

With all due respect, your analogy sucks.

If I moved to Germany, I would learn German. Why? Because German is the official language of Germany.

Let's take, instead, Belize. This analogy isn't exactly correct, as Belize does have an official language, but it should get the idea across. The official language of Belize is English, but a vast number of people also speak Spanish, or speak Spanish exclusively. If I moved to Belize, I might learn Spanish (80% of the population speaks it), or I might not.

Now, if I moved to Pennsylvania, or Montana, or Nebraska, as a native spanish-speaker, I'd learn English. However, if I moved to Miami or the Rio Grande Valley, or the very southern part of California, I very well might continue speaking Spanish.

Will type more later- food now.
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Post by Zedul »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote: Name me one other country in the so-called western world that concentrates the wealth in the upper 5% of the population like the US does.

Name me one other country in the so-called western world that has as large a percentage of its children living below the poverty line.

High standard of living? My ass.

Note: I don't hate the US. I think the foreign policies of the United States are reminiscent of 18th century robber barons, I do not approve of the US as the world's policeman, but I do not hate the people of the US.
Well, children below the poverty line is a problem everywhere, not just the U.S., sorry to say. I think you need to take a stroll in the more interesting corners of Berlin, Paris, and especially Marseille, and you will get an eye opener. The poor have always been with us, the poor will always be with us. Here in the U.S. we have a welfare system that pays each child $600 per month - unfortunately really crappy parents tend to spend that money on drugs and alchohol. Really, a good percentage of our poverty line is people who have flocked here from third world countries who think that our "poverty line" is living pretty darn high on the hog.

You want to talk about world policemen, we originally had to become the world policeman because of all the stupid European Colonialism that created such a huge freakin mess!!

Palastine, India, Pakistan, Afganistan, Columbia, Argentina, Vietnam... the list goes on and on, all that crap happened out of ENGLISH colonialism, and FRENCH colonialism, and DUTCH colonialism, and SWEDISH colonialism, and SPANISH colonialism, and RUSSIAN colonialism, and JAPANESE colonialism, and GERMAN colonialsm and et. and all. Do you get the big picture here? Europe made a BIG ASS mess of the world and the U.S. , once a colony ourselves, has been running around trying to do damage control and paying for it in trillions and in blood. Don't you dare blame the worlds ills on U.S. foreign policy after the total freakin shitsplatter that europe made out of things.

Sure we suck at foreign policy, but it's not like anyone else has done a good job. You all suck worse than us. It's just another case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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Post by Voronwë »

saying "If i moved to Germany, i would learn German" is besides the point.

Plenty of Turks move to Germany and don't learn German. There is racial tension there based on various socio-economic factors surrounding it.

But yes, all of "us" would "learn the language". But odds are most of us are middle/upper class, college educated (or going to go to college), with aspirations towards having a good career, house, etc.

we understand that assimilating into the culture you live in is just part of succeeding economically there.

People who refuse to assimilate, will face a relatively low "glass cieling" to their career success.


But somebody made a good post above, specificially regarding Latinos in the US. Many adult Latinos do not learn English when they come here. But their kids always do. I have several friends whose mothers don't speak English confidently (the husbands learned it because it was part of the path to career success). But the children do, and if the mom needs English at a store or whatever, she takes a kid there, or a friend, or the husband can go.

There is no threat to English in South Florida or elsewhere. English is going to be the language that everybody on this planet speaks in another 50 years.

Well at least everybody who has an electrical outlet and or a telephone jack in their neighborhood.
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Post by masteen »

Cuban booty > ALL

I don't care if she speaks English. Those who have been to Miami during Calle Ocho know what I'm talking about.
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Post by Voronwë »

christ on a christmas tree, don't even start talking about Carnival....

i'm serious dont start!
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Post by Cartalas »

To the United States I say Screw you!!!!

Screw You for giving me the right to vote in a free election.
Screw You for giving me the right for free speech.
Screw You for giving me the right to Bear Arms and protect myself.
Screw You for giving me the right to practice any religion I want.
Screw You for giving me the right to say Screw You.
Screw You for giving me a way to provide for my family.

Any way you look at it The United States is a great place to live and work just as im sure can be said for OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of countries, sure we have our problems sometimes our Foriegn Policy is well lets say questionable but hell who's is not. Think of all the good thinks our foriegn policy has done.
1.South Korea a large portion of that country did not want to adopt the Communist way of life, was it right for us to step in? Well thats a matter of opinion.
2.The Panama Canal
3. The defense of Kuwait(Not just the U.S. but the world),but the U.S funded some 90% of that war.
4.The constant Flow of medical help to third world countries.
and the list goes on and on

Now I know that we have screwed up too but so has OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of countries Is kinda of Ironic the people bitching back and forth on this topic are Friends. If someone was going to attack Canada,England,France,Denmark The U.S. would be there to help them and if someone was to attack the U.S Im sure Canada,England,France and Denmark would return the help.
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Post by Aabidano »

Children living below the poverty line are there as a result of their parents CHOICE. While I don't want to see anyone go hungry, I also feel no obligation to support someone throughout their lifetime because they choose not not better themselves. No it's not easy to do so, but why should I be expected to support you due to your (poor IMO) choices?

Anyone in the US can better themselves if they desire. Most won't expend the energy to do so. I've got a good freind who's gone from:

Married middle class mom with 3 young kids
Husband commited to Chattahoochie (a state asylum) then disapeared
Single parent in public housing/on public assistance
College student working 2 jobs(still in housing/on public assistance for some of this period)
Business owner
Currently an LPN and homeowner

She was put in a bad situation by circumstaces beyond her control. She also put herself back on her feet using the system the way it was intended to be used.

Those same resources are available to anyone who chooses to change their lot in life. You have to be willing to work for it though.

Yes there are exceptions due to handicaps and such. They are in the minority.
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Post by Voronwë »

i think it is easy to say that people are poor because they choose not to work.

it is equally easy to say they are poor because of the constraints of society/environmental variables.

i think in reality though, when you grow up in a situation where your mom or dad may have a marginal roll in your life, there is no economic investment in your community, and the only visible career alternatives are criminal acts, etc., it makes it difficult to find success.

They don't prohibit people from success entirely, but it makes it much harder. And there are always stories of individuals who defy the odds, and those people deserve the success they've had, cause they busted their ass. but a lot of people bust their ass and don't make it out of the ghetto.

the difference in opportunities for somebody who grows up in a upper/middle class environment from somebody who grows up in "the hood" are beyond night and day.

For starters parents set simple things like succeeding in school and college and beyond as unquestionable facts of life. The kids they associate with all go to college and have career goals. The influence of their peer group is substantial. From there, when the kid graduates and may have trouble finding a job, the parents are already tied into a network of people that can start a referral process. Knowing people is such a crucial part of getting a good job. Networking is huge.

there are ways to succeed from every starting point, but not all paths are even close to being equal in difficulty.

how many people would really choose to be worthless if they really had a real alternative. sure some would because, some people are lazy. but i think those people would be in the minority.

this is the land of scaled opportunity. opportunity scaled on property tax values, since that is the principal source of revenue for most public school systems. IE rich neighborhoods have funded school systems, and poor ones don't have enough books for the kids to even take them home.
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