My thoughts on Darklight

[noel]

Puddle had a post going http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/beta ... 927-2.html

Here are my thoughts (pasting what I added there):

puddle is a spectacular player. It doesn't matter if she's wearing an infiltrator suit, a MAX suit, or an agile exosuit. Chances are if TR are trying to rip another squad out of a tower or a base, and we're having problems, she's going to be the one to turn the tide by either hacking it from under their noses, or destroying everything in her MAX suit. She uses good tactics, she's got excellent strategic sense, and she's adapted to the new lattice system better than anyone I've seen so far. I should know, I'm two places behind her in our outfit rankings and I lead the outfit.

I don't play an infiltrator I did in exclusive as a second character when we were all BR20 and BR10, but I don't currently. I probably will again as a second character once the game is released. Instead, I play an CQB/hacker, and an infiltrator killer. Chances are if you were an infiltrator in a base we were hacking/holding I killed you. I use darklight ALL the time. I make more efficient use of it than a lot of people by flickering it on and off. I patrol all throughout and around the bases we're at, flashing DL on and off. If I see an infiltrator, I leave it on long enough to kill them, then I take cover and crouch to regenerate my stamina.

I recommend darklight to all infantry and MAX oriented characters as a first implant. The bottom line is, darklight will net you more experience if used properly than any other implant in the game. It's also the most overpowered implant in the game, and as much as I use it, love it, and enjoy all the kills I get with it, I think darklight should be nerfed.

Before I offer suggestions for what I think it should be replaced with, I want to add that the majority of kills I get with darklight are not just darklight itself, but also the fact that the majority of infiltrators are complete idiots who have no idea what they're doing. If you're an infiltrator and you attempt to kill someone with more than one person in the immediate vicinity, you deserve to die because you've failed. Infiltration is about the enemy not even knowing you're in their vicinity. Running by people in the halls, opening doors when you hear people in the other room. These are all retarded, stupid things to do. Darklight isn't the problem for the majority of you, it's your own inept, playstyle that sucks.

Now, solutions to the darklight situation:
#1 Jammer grenades should disable infiltrator suits for at least a full minute. Currently, there's no good reason to carry around a thumper in the game, and this would change it a bit.

#2 Motion sensors should reveal infiltrators. The range on motion sensors is currently far too big, but motion sensors should be deployed, and the closer the infiltrator is to the sensor, the more visible they should be, up to looking exactly the way they do with darkvision on i.e. glowing white.

#3 If darklight MUST be in the game, the ability to flicker it should be nerfed. I can keep darklight going practically all the time with flickering it, and periodic resting. Additionally, people should not be able to stand in one place, crouch, or anchor a max and leave darklight on all the time. Your stamina SHOULD still drain at a reasonably slow pace.

#4 If darklight MUST still be in the game, make the other implants useful. I am currently running with darklight, regen, and surge. Other than personal shield, or advanced targetting which some of my outfitmates use, I don't see a reason to use any other implant. I think this needs to be adressed.

That's all I have.

Incidentally, to the rocket scientist that said this belongs in the wish list forum; note that this is an existing feature in the game, and note that we're giving feedback on the existing feature.

Cheers.

[Ebumar]

I just read kyou's post. Flaming number 1 right there. I don't think I've ever seen someone get so owned before. Pure greatness right there. For sure, any of those l33t d00ds that play CS all day will not even come close to out flaming us here at veeshan vault~

[noel]

I just read kyou's post. Flaming number 1 right there. I don't think I've ever seen someone get so owned before. Pure greatness right there. For sure, any of those l33t d00ds that play CS all day will not even come close to out flaming us here at veeshan vault~

Well yeah.

What about darklight though?

[Ebumar]

It rocks but it sucks~

[Boogahz]

I have only been on the "user" side of DL, and I don't think I would change it much. What sucks for stealthers:
1) when you run, you are just as visible as anyone else
2) when a stealther is "visibly stealthed" it is a priority target (for me at least)
3) when defenders are stationary, DarkLight can be left on forever and not drain more than 1 stamina


The third item is what I would change first. Make it necessary to turn DL on and off to maintain decent stamina levels. Also, maybe make the stationary, non-hacking infiltrator invisible to DarkLight or just as visible as if stationary without darklight. Also, maybe make DL have a visible effect on those who use it. Almost like the NC MAX shield does. Make something so that if say you are climbing up stairs in a tower to cap it, and there is someone there, you can tell right away if they have DL on. Then you know to call in others to clear it for you. The only thing is if that person is turning it on and off, you may still get killed. That chance could be something that balances it some.

I also thought about how likely I would personally be to target infil's from a distance if they were NOT stealthed. Chances are, they would move lower on the list of targets when I see them. Basically I look at them like this:
(in order of priority)
Stealthed infils
Vehicles
MAX units
Air units
Infantry

If the infil was NOT stealthed in the open fields, I MAY not automatically pick them out in a crowd. Some infil's have NO idea how visible they are when running through a field of combat below enemies. You are a BRIGHT WHITE PERSON! No other character in the game stands out as much as a running stealthed infil.

Now, some infils actually take the time to crouch and "crawl" through combat. There is still a risk to that however. When I don't have DarkLight on, I usually have Advanced Targetting on. That means that if I just drag my cursor over your general location, I will see your name. If your name is red, and you are close, DL comes on. If you are at a distance, I shoot at you and just HOPE you aren't friendly. Sometimes the names don't come up, and I admit I have picked off a couple friendlies because of that.

Basically, I think that some tweaking should be done. Mostly more limitations to WHEN DL will pick out an infil indoors.

[Breagen]

Well, I personally don't have Darklight but I have been thinking about getting it to help defend bases and find AMS's.

The thing is, if DL really is as powerful as your saying it is; ie being able to flicker it almost constantly, than it should be tuned somehow. It does seem to me that at this point Inf's really are lacking a role since it has become so easy to find and kill them, any competent defense would discover a Inf before they can do much of anything in a base.

I've even managed to kill a fair share of Inf's without using DL, though I am sure part of this was through their own stupidity than my skills. The fact that Inf's can't move through doors without it being obvious what is going on and that they can't hack anything without becoming apparent to anyone with half a braincell diminishes one of the useful roles they have a lot.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I have not taken DL, but hope it is nerfed in a big way. If the game is about teamwork, then the team should be relying on their Mosquito pilots to let them know when an infiltrator is moving. The inate radar in the Mosquito makes it very easy to spot AMS and moving infiltrators. If you choose to not relay that to your team, then you suck and all deserve to die.

[Sabek]

They could tune it by puting a reset timer on it. Once you turn it off you can't turn it back on for 30 secs, 1 min, or whatever they feel is tuned.

[Janx]

I'd like to see faster stam drain, and instead of turning the inf birght white, make him as visable as when fully running even if hes not moving. That way theres still a chance you'll be missed if someone is just casually looking.

[Akaran_D]

I'm having OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of fun doing somthing fairly unorthodox with the inf suit (I think, not seeing too many others doing this). In large / medium scale battles outside of a base (I have a bitch of a time getting into a under seige base unless the front defends have been neutralized, but it works here aswell) I've found that I can generally slide around the "side" of the battle up behind AV and Sniper poisitions on the enemy side. Usually I don't get tagged on the way.

The nice thing about this is that a couple of quick knife blows (2 to 4) to a sniper or rocket launcher will be enough to kill one of the ranged attackers that are picking off front line infantry or taking out our vehicles.

The downside is that I only get about 3 kills or so at the most before someone either sees me moving or clues in on the fact that they're not being shot by someone on the front lines. I don't really have a problem with this tho..

The other, major advantage of this.. I've not noticed that people are paying too much attention to using DL when they're in a full scale battle, as opposed to someone hunting down hackers in a base.

[Blackwind]

No way I'd remove DL from the game.

I would limit its ability to see for one from present settings. Regardless of the speed of movement at present, they show up bright white. That could be altered a lot. Say for example, if completely still, for 5 seconds...they are invis to even DL. Any slight movement, say to get up the stairs to that term past that MAX (me)...they show up barely visible depending on their speed of movement and the extent of it.....otherwise invisible. Short of standing within a 3 ft in game radius....they stay invis to even DL. I think the skill of inf is largely to blame at present. They suck. Puddle is a exception to the general population at present through sheer skill. There simply needs to be a balance between the two....Darklight and Inf.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

The idea I posted was to not allow DL to work unless you were in agile armor or less. MAXes with DL make infiltration useless.

[murr]

Most of you know I play an inf most of the time. I hate darklight with a passion.
Look at it this way - any infantry or max with 2 brain cells, if they see me glimmer as I run past (which I don't except in wide open, but some do) can just open up in my general direction and kill me without too much trouble. We're papier mache. Darklight just trivializes the inf suit, especially in confined areas.
I really like the idea of restricting it to armor classes..I can't do a thing to MAX as it stands (besides plasma nades, which are a bitch to carry around in quantity enough to take out a max) Infs do pose a serious threat to anyone in reinforced or less, so give them that defense. Just stupid that a MAX can walk in a cc, turn on darklight, kill everyone..

[kyoukan]

I don't think any implant should work while you're in a max. For 3 points only they are powerful enough.

[kurzweil]

Hm, only problem with darklight only working for agile suits is instead of MAX's hunting down infiltrators, you'll have people in harrassers running down teammates to get to that cloaked enemy...

Of course, that's all outdoors, so maybe not a bad thing.

My MAX is very happy with the advanced targeting implant. I'd be quite willing to have DL not work in MAXs, tho.

[Janx]

IMO just remove darklight since you can use adv targeting to find stealthers.

[Zamtuk]

I added my opinion as Mirrimex.

[Blackwind]

So they listened ...good to go. Small changes....baby steps.

[murr]

posted mine as teh swissboy~ lolz