Depleted Uranium Bombs

[Mezzmor]

OK, so I'm surfing the web and happen to come across the Iraqi news agency on the web. Looking for a good laugh, I check it out to see just what kind of propaganda the other side feeds their people.

Anyway, I come to this article about how all these Iraqis are dying years after the gulfwar 1 (especially on or within 25 miles of the highway of death). So I am interested right? I do a google search on depleted uranium bomb.
Apparently the good old US governmenthad an insane amount of depleted uranium. I am not a nuclear physicist here, so don't take my exact word for this. Apparently its the by product of u-234 and u-235 stripped of its fissionable isotopes which forms a substance denser than lead. With all of this stuff lingering in Oak Ridge TN and Los Alamos NM, the government said hey, we can use this stuff for weapon shell casings...its most commonly used in heavy artillery shells, the tank buster shells and the gatling gun shells on the A10 tank killers.

So, once these shells, explode, tah-dah, apparently, they are dirty bombs. The dust from the casings can spread radioactivity upwards of 25 miles just through scattered dust. Cancers, birth defects seem to abound in a lot of places where these bombs have been dropped or destroyed, Iraq, Kosovo, and not suprisingly, Sierra Army Ordinance Depot in Sierra NV.

Gulf War syndrome is the most publicized side effect, but no "credible" agency has ever pinpointed the exact cause of GWS as we all know.

So, here is my question. THIS IS NOT AN ANTIWAR OR PRO IRAQI THREAD. Anybody know anyplace that has evidence refuting all of this information? I sure would like to know the opposite view, if there is one. Or is this all just a "conspiracy theory"?

I personally would like to know, what the hell is up with this.

[Anuin]

I'm relatively sure that it wasn't depleted uranium bombs, but rather ammunition. Uranium is uber heavy, and made good tank piercing munitions. For example, the A10 Warthogs fired these things A LOT, so that is a major pollution factor.

[kyoukan]

Yeah it is the ballistic ammunition from tanks and large machine guns that use depleted uranium. I don't think they built bombs with them.

long term effects of being exposed to depleted uranium alloys have been inconclusive so far because only the US government has access to the data and materials needed to conduct the tests.

it has been blamed for gulf war syndrome, but a lot of experts in the field of radiation have said that the chances of any form of radiation producing those kinds of symptoms aren't very likely. the only side effect shared by both are achy joints and weak bones.

it is a hell of a lot more likely than the other popular theory that saddam used some top secret chemical weapon on US troops that has effects like long term mental illness and memory loss.

gulf war syndrome has been a problem exclusive to US armed forces though.. other countries that fielded miltary in the gulf war have not been faced with similar problems except in very rare cases. there is an ex-canadian soldier that swears he has gulf war syndrome but his doctor just says he is mentally ill.

I personally think it was the innoculations the US gave their infantry.

[Mezzmor]

Yes, its the pollution from the shell casings that poisoning the environment, but is it all fact or fiction? I misspoke in my post referring to it as a "bomb" but the fact is, in my mind anyway, there is no difference (if we are using this crap) between our "conventional" ammo and the dreaded dirty bomb that the US government reminds us about the possibility of every day.

[kyoukan]

like I said no real tests have been done because the date needed is all property of the us government.

depleted uranium is reputed to be safe but a lot of people don't think it is.

[Fallanthas]

From what I have seen, depleted uranium is probably safe in about the same way coal dust is. Simple exposure likely won't harm you, but inhaling the dust is decidedly unhealthy. You body has no way to break the substance down, leading eventually to particulate buildup in your respiratory system.

As for Gulf War Syndrome, that conclusion seems highly suspect since no other troops involved in the conflict seem to have developed the same problems. I'm afraid the finger there will eventually come down to some anti-agent administered to US troops.

That's just a guess, but it's highly suspicoius that our troops are the only ones with the issues.

[Pahreyia]

I don't claim to be informed on the subject, but I wanted to ask, in regards to GWS: Are we certain it's just Americans that are getting it, or could, say Iraqui, soldiers have it, but perhaps it's being misdiagnosed or not reported?

[Fallanthas]

Entirely possible, Pah.


What we do know is that no other Allied forces troops are reporting it, which makes the whole thing highly unlikely to be battlefield exposure.

[vn_Tanc]

Plenty of UK troops reported/are reporting GWS. There has been a protracted legal campaign for a proper investigation and possible compensation to those affected.

DU weaponry is nasty. Tons of the stuff was used though, as DU is basically nuclear waste from power stations which otherwise has absolutely no use. Which is why it was so tempting to dispose of it this way.

[kyoukan]

Plenty of UK troops reported/are reporting GWS. There has been a protracted legal campaign for a proper investigation and possible compensation to those affected.

DU weaponry is nasty. Tons of the stuff was used though, as DU is basically nuclear waste from power stations which otherwise has absolutely no use. Which is why it was so tempting to dispose of it this way.

well it was really the nuclear energy corp lobbyists. the nuke power companies were stuck with all this waste material and billions of dollars in costs to dispose of it, but instead of spending that much money, they spread a fraction of it around washington DC. on paper DU ordnance is great. It's super heavy and durable but it lights up super hot when it hits so the penetration factor is so much better than regular alloys.

so instead of having to pay to dispose of it, they actually got the taxpayers to buy it off them in the form of DU ballistics. It's not a bad deal really. everybody wins!*


*assuming "everybody" is a major shareholder in a nuclear power corporation.

[Kylere]

Depleted Uranium is dangerous, however it is an mostly issue of alpha and beta particles, the gamma output has dropped dramatically. Alpha particles are stopped by a sheet of paper, Beta is stopped by your skin. You can of course inhale it, and it can build up via your pores, but it is not that much of an issue as long as you do not build our house on top of an area that had thousands of rounds fired into it.

The shell casings themselves are not of depleted uranium, the ROUND has a depleted uranium core to aid in penetration. There is no real danger from the casings at all, it is the expended rounds themselves, and with room temp IQ you do not bring old rounds into your home, or let your kids play with them. Except for human interferance they would all be buried under the sands by now.

[Aabidano]

You pick up more alpha, beta and gamma radiation exposure just living in areas with a lot exposed granite and/or high elevations than you will from these. Or watching TV for that matter.

Once you pave, paint or plaster the alpha particals are effectively contained. The enviroment you live in will give you more exposure.

Edit - As an aside, barring accidents you'll get more radiation exposure just living in Denver, Vancouver or Boston than you would working in a nuke power plant

[vn_Tanc]

You're trying to tell me you get more radiation from living in a granite area than living in tents in a dustbowl thoroughly contaminated by DU dust for weeks on end? Like the gulf war troops did?

Fuck off!

[Bubba Grizz]

Battlemechs use depleted uranium in their Auto Cannons. Read that a long time ago in one of the mech books. It surprised me to find out that our present day tanks also use this in their shells and have been since 1990 or longer.

[Sabek]

there is an ex-canadian soldier that swears he has gulf war syndrome but his doctor just says he is mentally ill.

I personally think it was the innoculations the US gave their infantry.

Canadian = mentally ill. Theres a shocker. j/k

Actually I have a friend that was in the gulf war and he said they got a series of shots for biowarfare vaccines. Stuff like anthrax (which hadn't been approved by the FDA but government can still use it on troops), and other things that they weren't told what they were for.
Folks have said it is a reaction between all of the different vaccine shots they were given.

[Gurugurumaki]

When in doubt, brame it on the rations, that shit is worse than spam`

[Aabidano]

You're trying to tell me you get more radiation from living in a granite area than living in tents in a dustbowl thoroughly contaminated by DU dust for weeks on end? Like the gulf war troops did?

Over the course of your life, yes.

DU shells aren't going to make much dust, unless your sleeping in the middle of a road that an entire tank formation was just pummeled in, the wind hasn't blown and no vehicles or helicoptors have passed overhead. Or you're living in a sealed building that's been thourholy perforated with DU shells.

I worked in nuke power for ~10 years, I recieved roughly the same exposure at work as I did getting 2-3 chest xrays. At a guess, I recieved 10x as much from the areas I lived in. We never had an alarm go off from internal causes, a large temperature change would set airborne alarms off however due to outside dust being stirred up.

Radiation is all around you, it's not a secret bogey monster that only comes from munitions and power plants. If you've got an old and/or crappy monitor, you're getting bathed in radiation as you read this.

*Edit - I'm not a "nuclear power is your friend" person, it has serious long term use issues. That said, 99% of popular "knowledge" about radiation in particular and nuclear power in general is a steaming load of crap.

*Edit 2 - A steaming load of crap brought to you by the same people who will tell you most of our oxygen is made in rainforests. Ummm, no.

[vn_Tanc]

It wasn't just shells - a huge proportion of the bullets fired from A10s and Apaches were DU also. Vehicles destroyed by these weapons gave a significant geiger counter reading (just alpha particles read on a geiger tho, yes?).
Some of the tents housing gulf troops were pitched in these areas for weeks. Skin and clothing won't protect you from contamination when you're breathing in particles of DU, mixing it into your food and drinking water etc.

The role and presence of DU in the gulf has been consitently played down by our governments and while the jury is still out on GWS and possible causes I don't think DU contamination can be dismissed out of hand.

[Mezzmor]

I think once again our government has some explaining to do that it never will.

[Hiddukel]

The AF has a good bit of old 20 MM with DU stockpiled somewhere, but it's been mostly phased out for a long time now.

[Chmee]

As others have mentioned, it is not used in the casings. Depleted uranium is used as the penetrator for kinetic kill anti tank rounds. It is used because it is very dense, which is desirable when trying to concentrate as much kinetic energy on as small an area as possible to penetrate tank armor.

Depleted uranium is the by product of the process uranium ore goes through before being used for nuclear planets. Enriched uranium is created with a higher concentration of the more radioactive u-235 isotope. The depleted uranium is less radioactive than the mined ore.

From what I have read, depleted uranium isn't considered a serious external radiation hazard. Of more concern is the toxicity as a heavy metal but even there the exposures in general in the gulf war and the balkans are below the needed concentrations to be a serious health risk.

A couple of informative links on DU

http://www.dnd.ca/health/information/me ... nder_e.asp
http://www.deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_li ... alth.shtml

Several people have mentioned Gulf War Syndrome. The problem with Gulf War Syndrome is that multiple studies (released in peer reviewed journals) consistently find the same thing, that veterans deployed to the gulf have no statistically relevant increase in illnesses over veterans of the same time period that were not deployed (and both groups of veterans show lower incidence of illness in general than the general population). The sole exception is in complaints that are generally considered psychosomatic in nature (ie symptoms whose causes are usually related to stress). Which is not unreasonable for a group that has consistently told by the media that they may have been exposed to a mysterious illness.

A very good article on gulf war syndrome. Its a little old, but later studies haven't really showed anything to refute what was in it.

http://www.fumento.com/biggulf.html

[Aabidano]

Geiger counter-like devices measure beta/gamma primarily. Alpha particle counters are used to measure alpha, and isn't something you "sweep" over a surface and get a measurement.

Actual geiger counters are very high level instruments, if you get a reading you've got some fairly hot stuff (not something they are going to make bullets from). They aren't used except in mining and distaster clean up operations.

[Hoarmurath]

I don't have Gulf War Syndrome, so I guess that debunks that myth, eh?

[Aabidano]

I don't have Gulf War Syndrome

Me neither, I've eaten my fair share of sand and picked plenty from my nose