Catholics

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 6, 2003, 5:47 pm

at least he got the gender right. that's a huge step forward for the catholic priesthood.

naturally he won't go to prison after the bishop of NY pulls some strings, and god will forgive him.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » February 6, 2003, 5:49 pm

That church is such a goddamned mess.

Long live religion, eh?

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » February 6, 2003, 5:49 pm

Kinda makes sense. Who better to investigate priests for sex abuse than one who has done it?
Kinda like how some companies hire hackers as security people since they know all the exploits.
/sarcasm off

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 6, 2003, 5:51 pm

too many possibilities... too many ways to play devils advocate... so
/pharm

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 6, 2003, 5:56 pm

The Catholic dogma that does not allow priests to have sex is the root of almost all these problems. I have an idea, let's deny these men from endulging in one of the most primordial urges of EVERY LIVING THING ON THE PLANET!

Yes, that religion is pretty much the most FUBARed out of the most popular religions in the world, which is saying OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS because there are some rather fucked up religions out there!

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » February 6, 2003, 5:57 pm

Now don't get me wrong, I am the last person that will ever defend catholicism as a faith.. however, I find it amusing that everyone jumps on the bash catholicism bandwagon because he is a priest. He was a priest visiting from a diocese in India, how about bashing Indians as child molestors as well?

Post by **Sylvus** » February 6, 2003, 6:02 pm

He's not necessarily Indian, it only said that he's from a diocese in India. If I'm not mistaken, he could have been from anywhere in the world and assigned to that diocese when he finished seminary school or whatever.

I can't say with any certainty that it would cure the problem, but the Catholic Church needs to remove the antiquated laws of priests not being able to marry. Perhaps a little normal sex between consenting adults would cut down on the apparent need to abuse children.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 6, 2003, 6:03 pm

Sirensa wrote:Now don't get me wrong, I am the last person that will ever defend catholicism as a faith.. however, I find it amusing that everyone jumps on the bash catholicism bandwagon because he is a priest. He was a priest visiting from a diocese in India, how about bashing Indians as child molestors as well?

how many baptist or methodist ministers do you see going away for molesting children?

catholic priests are routinely jumped on for molesting children because so fucking many of them molest children.

Burke · Post by **Burke** » February 6, 2003, 6:10 pm

They should just let clergy marry and that would lower the instances of the dogma humpin' everyones' legs.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » February 6, 2003, 6:23 pm

This is what I know:

You do not hear about Fundamentalists, Mormons, Babtists, Lutherians or any other sect of Christianity based religions flooded with reports of child abuse.
However, there are some very decent Catholic priests out there. Just the average of shitbags to someone I would trust with confession is evening out

Acies · Post by **Acies** » February 6, 2003, 6:26 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Sirensa wrote:Now don't get me wrong, I am the last person that will ever defend catholicism as a faith.. however, I find it amusing that everyone jumps on the bash catholicism bandwagon because he is a priest. He was a priest visiting from a diocese in India, how about bashing Indians as child molestors as well?
how many baptist or methodist ministers do you see going away for molesting children?

catholic priests are routinely jumped on for molesting children because so fucking many of them molest children.

Beat me to it Kyou

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » February 6, 2003, 6:36 pm

There are a lot more catholic priests than baptist ministers. Who gives a crap about reverend Billy-Bob from Who-knows-where

Everyone is looking for any dirty laundry, to load on the Catholic Priest-Bashing bandwagon

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 6, 2003, 6:41 pm

Masekle wrote:There are a lot more catholic priests than baptist ministers. Who gives a crap about reverend Billy-Bob from Who-knows-where

Everyone is looking for any dirty laundry, to load on the Catholic Priest-Bashing bandwagon

yes I just don't like catholic priests arbitrarily. it has nothing to do with their long history of molesting children or their other excesses. every time I read another article about another catholic priest raping a child I cheer because it gives me an excuse to harp on about my totally unfounded dislike for the church.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » February 6, 2003, 6:41 pm

listen to me you stereotypical pieces of shit, im going to go ahead and set this shit strait for you. Don't generalize a priest as a child molestor, that is not only insulting to any catholic but also makes me want to hit you across the face with a shovel as hard as I can swing it. There are a lot of distrubed and perverted people in this world, and I can guarantee there are just as many protestant child molesters of the cloth as there are catholic. Now the only reason the catholic ones get so much media play is cause it sells better on the newspapers. However, most of you I bet are probably thinking its the cool thing to do to bash catholics well to you I just say fuck off. I'm seriously disgusted with many of you and I find it offensive that you would even take the time to post support for such dribble. Pretty much what you are saying is, if a black man steals a purse.
ALL BLACK MEN ARE PURSE STEALERS.
or
if a white man rapes a cow.
ALL WHITE MEN ARE COW RAPISTS.

do you see how fuckign stupid you all sound? If not well I guess I'll just chalk it up to the fact that most of your parents are probably related and your first sexual experience was with a member of your family.
assholes
fuck off.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 6, 2003, 6:44 pm

I acually saw a Dateline episode where they investigated child molestation (mainly girls) by elders in the Jehovah's Witness "community" (I call it a cult). Several families were ousted from the church when they reported the crimes. You are taught in the church not to deal with officials not directly related to the church, so these families would go to the church to report the crimes. The church would do nothing and if the family went to the police they were shunned.

The men committing these crimes are married. The problem does not always lie within the need for a sexual outlet (for honestly, as long as you got a hand, you got an outlet). It has more to do with guilt issues perpetuated by prudish church morals, the idea that sexuality is sinful. When you suppress normal sexual expression, deviancy is born.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 6, 2003, 6:52 pm

makes me want to hit you across the face with a shovel as hard as I can swing it

I think that's exactely what Jesus would do too!

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » February 6, 2003, 6:53 pm

Is that the Pissed-Off sylvos ??

I agree the news selling was where I was at with this. Sell news make money. Who cares about the good guy as long as we can generalize. There are so many.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » February 6, 2003, 6:53 pm

Jesus said "This is my commandment that you love one another"

and

"Love hurts"

or

"You only hurt the ones you love"

Pyronius Flamebringer · February 6, 2003, 6:56 pm

Actually Sylvos to be politically correct it would have to be

ALL WISCONSIN MEN ARE COW RAPISTS...

------------------------
But seriously...I have no love for nor do I support pretty much any organized religeon...and it would be pretty ignorant to say that all priest of any given faith are child molestors or whatever.. I would agree with Fair about letting priest marry and such would probably cut down on this. It does seem that there is something that causes it to happen anyways and that would seem the number one target to me anyways.

But yeah...molestors are everywhere and priest just stick out when they do it..Its not even 1% of priest in the world that do this....Not like its a inner circle practice that preist congregate and plan..

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » February 6, 2003, 6:59 pm

I have to believe the extensive cover-ups and crap the catholic church has participated in over the years encourages such things.

Ok, encourage is probably harsh, let's say they don't go out of their way to DIScourage such things.

Sorry if you don't like it, Sylvos. And noone said all priests are child-molestors. You are doing your religion one hell of a disservice if you don't recoignize this as a problem bud.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » February 6, 2003, 7:07 pm

Sylvos wrote:listen to me you stereotypical pieces of shit, im going to go ahead and set this shit strait for you. Don't generalize a priest as a child molestor, that is not only insulting to any catholic but also makes me want to hit you across the face with a shovel as hard as I can swing it. There are a lot of distrubed and perverted people in this world, and I can guarantee there are just as many protestant child molesters of the cloth as there are catholic. Now the only reason the catholic ones get so much media play is cause it sells better on the newspapers. However, most of you I bet are probably thinking its the cool thing to do to bash catholics well to you I just say fuck off. I'm seriously disgusted with many of you and I find it offensive that you would even take the time to post support for such dribble. Pretty much what you are saying is, if a black man steals a purse.
ALL BLACK MEN ARE PURSE STEALERS.
or
if a white man rapes a cow.
ALL WHITE MEN ARE COW RAPISTS.

do you see how fuckign stupid you all sound? If not well I guess I'll just chalk it up to the fact that most of your parents are probably related and your first sexual experience was with a member of your family.
assholes
fuck off.

Well shit, sorry to offend you Sylvos. I am not Catholic, but do go to confession around every year or so.
It is understandable that the media would target in exclusion to all other churches Catholisism, due to their abundance and wealth.
Still, I honestly do not think anyone here could sterotype a priest as an automatic rapist by default of church affiliation, at least, not rationally.
However, if you think that because there may be a sterotype issue here changes the fact that Catholisism is being inunduated with claims of molestation, true or not, then let me tell you it does not.
Quite likely other religions suffer the same woes, I do not know. I am not excluding those others, nor am I placing the Catholic church as some figurehead for child abuse. I mean hell, there are so many things that we could put on Catholisism here that would be absolutely true, like the inquisition, the crusades, policy of non-involvement in the holocuast, War Orphan abductation, and likely find the same faults in any religion that was as old and as wealthy as it.

I guess my point is, easy bro.
My main beef is that a "man of god" abused a child. The fact that he was catholic really is inconsequential outside of the title of the thread. FOr naming it that way and offending you though, you do have my appoligies.

Masekle · Post by **Masekle** » February 6, 2003, 7:11 pm

Its a problem EVERYWHERE, Recognise the PROBLEM Not the highlights

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » February 6, 2003, 7:13 pm

Some examples of non-catholic clergy sex offenders in the past couple years:

Baptist:

Police say that Lyndon Howell, who served at the Community Missionary Baptist Church, befriended the victim's family when she was 11 years old. For the next four years, police believe that Howell had sex with her. Howell faces several charges. He is being held without bond at the Palm Beach County Jail. - Associated Press, 2001

Jewish:

BOCA RATON - Rabbi Jerrold Levy, 58, has been jailed on federal charges of using the Internet to lure a minor into having sex and possessing child pornography. - Naples Daily News, 2001

Baptist:

Timothy Lee Reddin, 49, pleaded guilty Sept. 8 to possessing at least 10 illegal images, including one depiction of a child younger than 12. - Arkansas Democrat Gazette, 2000

House of Prayer: (wtf is this?!)

Welfare authorities said nearly 60 children had been seriously beaten by their parents and by church leaders, under the supervision of the Rev. Arthur Allen Jr., 68, the pastor. Several children had open wounds, large bruises and welts, investigators said. Allen and six church leaders were charged with cruelty to children and released on bail. - New York Times, AP, 3/2001

Episcopal:

Fr. Kenneth Kurt Behrel, 51, who had been rector of St. Andrew's Episcopal Church since 1985, had been arrested in Feb. at his home in Grayslake, a suburb of Chicago. Behrel faces two counts of sexual child abuse in Washington County, MD. If convicted, he could be placed on probation or sentenced up to 15 years in prison, said a prosecutor there. - Chicago Tribune, 3/2001

Jewish:

The criminal charges brought by grand jurors against Baruch Lanner, 50, include aggravated criminal sexual contact, criminal sexual contact, and endangering the welfare of children. - Record, 2001

Baptist:

Investigators say Rev. Claude Russell Morrison, Jr., 37, was arrested after he solicited an undercover male officer and then grabbed the officer in the crotch. - WXII, 3/2001

Seventh Day Adventist:

Donald Ralph Donaldson, 49, is being held in the county jail on $1 million bond. Police believe that Donaldson may have sexually molested as many as 78 children over several years. - KOIN, 2001

I could go on and on and on.. But I think that's enough for you people to realize that it's not only Catholic Church officials who are accused of sex crimes. Kindly remember, that just because you don't remember reading about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » February 6, 2003, 7:17 pm

Wow...
Thank you Sirensa

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » February 6, 2003, 7:25 pm

Don't get me wrong.. I am not really commenting on religion. It's not an issue of Catholics molesting children or even church officials molesting children, its that children are molested.

The reason church officials (and school officials) get so much more media coverage is that these are people that, in theory, should be trusted to help care for children.

It's a sad state of affairs for sure that any child is abused.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » February 6, 2003, 7:57 pm

The reason church officials (and school officials) get so much more media coverage is that these are people that, in theory, should be trusted to help care for children.

And the Catholic Church does exactly that, around the world. They are known for sponsorship of orphanages, hospitals and schools in a horde of countries.

The Catholic church has also gained a degree of notoriety in trying to cover up instances of child abuse/sexual abuse. The issue would not be as large (IMO) if the Vatican didn't insist that what the offenders do (and dealing with them) is the Catholic Church's business, and not the business of the country and people offended against. That in this instance the church lifted its veil of protection is a little encouraging: finally they may be willing to admit that these men broke Man's Laws (be it American, British, Indian or whatever) and are subject to his punishments, as well as God's.

Gutterr · Post by **Gutterr** » February 6, 2003, 8:11 pm

The word on the grape vine is that when the current Pope dies, its rumored that one of the next cardinals that will become the Pope will allow catholic priests to marry.

But who knows for sure....

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » February 7, 2003, 12:32 am

If you look at the percentages of child mostestors overall, you'll find that this percentage is higher than the percentage of catholic clergy that are molesters.

It's simply a function of population. You get enough of any bunch, there are bound to be bad apples.

Add to this the spotlight of media and you get a distorted picture of reality.

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » February 7, 2003, 8:01 am

Adex, the problem is that the population sets a higher standard for religious leaders. They should be the ones against which people measure their own moral worth. Not only should there be a smaller percentage of child molesters in the priesthood than in the general population, but even one should be such an anomaly that it makes people gasp.

As has been pointed out, however, priests should be allowed to marry. Matrimony is the only sacrament in which ordained priests are not allowed to partake. And of course, sacraments are only conventionally necessary.

Anyway, it's all the same to me as I'm an atheist.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » February 7, 2003, 5:23 pm

Ok, first off, masturbation is not good according to the bible, abraham or someone "spilled his seed unto the earth" somewhere in there I think. It wasn't deemed a good outlet.

Secondly, Sylvos....you go to church to be a better person so you can go to heaven right? Don't even bother going to church if your that fucked up, it makes me ill that you think your church is full of good people while your talking about hitting someone in the face with a shovel because you didn't like soemthing they said. Do you know how stupid you sound?

Third, I don't beleive in God, heaven, hell, any of that shit. That means I'm going to hell. That being said I still do the right thing because it's right. As a matter of fact I am probably a better person accourding to your bibles rules then atleast 70% of your church friends. But I will go to hell, and those people will go to heaven? Whatever...your churches scare tactics that I will go to an imaginary place called hell if I don't give them 10% of my earnings is laughable at best, how stupid do they think I am?

IMHO Church is the best con/scam ever....you make up an imaginary bad place and tell people to give you money or they will go to the bad place, and it doesn't even matter if you were a good person your whole life or not...AND PEOPLE DO IT! Nevermind the lack of evidence after 2000 years....I especially like the peer pressure of handing the plate around in full view of the rest rather then just a deposit box.

Think about it. Your paying money for a membership in a cult.

You can be a good person without the heaven and hell bullshit.

Edit:

the problem is that the population sets a higher standard for religious leaders. They should be the ones against which people measure their own moral worth. Not only should there be a smaller percentage of child molesters in the priesthood than in the general population, but even one should be such an anomaly that it makes people gasp.

Exactly.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 7, 2003, 5:45 pm

The biggest problem I have with the Catholics and this whole child molestation shitpile is that nothing happens to these priests. They are just moved somewhere else when it has been discovered within the church. When problems occur with a Baptist minister, his ass is done. There is no tolerance for that shit, much less cover it up and relocate him.

They need to get some old testament punishment going. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and all that.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2003, 5:57 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: They need to get some old testament punishment going. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and all that.

Well, if the priest molested a child...he might like being molested himself. A molest for a molest might encourage more priests in this case.

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » February 7, 2003, 6:15 pm

I think the more appropriate punishment would be to chop of their nads.

Mezzmor · Post by **Mezzmor** » February 7, 2003, 6:31 pm

I was born and raised a catholic. When I became an adult I decided I no longer wanted to be associated with:

A church that does not prosecute to the fullest extent of the law child abusers and molesters.

A church that frowns on birth control (note i said birth control, not abortion and will not even discuss that in this forum so back off)

A church that will not forgive divorce

I have been to many churches since then, shockingly discovering that depending on the church:

Homosexuals are considered animals or worse;
You are an outcast for working on the sabbath (even if you own your own business and have no choice)

Plus, for the most part, almost every person "of faith" I have met is so damned quick to judge others it just drives me nuts.

I don't have a belief in God I am sad to say. It requires faith since there is no scientific proof. Any semblance of faith has lef tme over the years as I look upon the society of the world today and the masses of people who care for nothing except themselves or whats in it for them.

I will not, nor will ever again be a part of any organized religion period. I don't have any hatred or dislike for those who look to the denomations for whatever they desire for that fulfillment. Gotta say though, I am very disgusted with any church that covers up and does not prosecute wrongdoing. Its ok to cover up a priest molesting a 12 year old girl. But if you get a divorce, if you use contraceptives, if you have pre marital sex or masturbate, or god forbid make a terrible mistake and abortion is the only way out for you, or you are homosexual, or whatever, God help you.

Someone please point these things out to me in the Bible. Point out one circumstance where Jesus came across a soul that didnt warrant forgiveness.

Until then, I will use the Bible as I do now - a cornerstone of an example of how to live my life. Not a document to hide behind as I stand in church gossiping about the falling of other members.

Mezzmor

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 7, 2003, 6:47 pm

A church that will not forgive divorce

Actually they will if you get it anulled and its not hard at all to do so. My nitwit cousin converted to catholicism when she married her first husband. They were married for FOUR years before she finally left him for being abusive. One day she told me he was trying to get her to sign anullment papers so that he could get remarried agian (in a catholic church) and I told her she shouldn't do it just to get back at him for being such an ass. Well stupid did it anyway and seemed to believe that the anullment meant she could act like she's never been married! Wonder what she's going to do now that husband #2 is divorcing her?

Oh, and Stupid has a twin sister, Retard. Retard, divorcing her husband, converted to Catholicism JUST SO she could get a church annulment!

...and my mother wonders why I never socialize with my cousins...

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » February 7, 2003, 6:48 pm

Priests should be able to fuck, even the gay ones. Period.

This is the word of the Teurde
*praise be to Teurde*

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » February 7, 2003, 7:08 pm

Sylvos theBIG difference is that when a Baptist or a Anglican or whatever is suspected of committing this vulgar betrayal of innocence their Head Office doesn't try to cover it up. The Catholic Church has a long history of covering up these cases even to the point of interferring with the law.

In fact the Arch Bishop of Boston stated that any suspected cases of Child Molestation (sp) should be brought to the Catholic church and NOT to the authorities. Due to public pressure he has since changed his stance but WTF?

This is why everyone jumps on Catholic Priests whenever this type of case rears it's head.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » February 7, 2003, 7:34 pm

I'm Baptist.

I do find it odd that the catholic clergy went easy on molesters in the past.

However, I also find it odd that non christains hold catholic clergy to a higher standard than the rest of society. I mean, what makes them so special if you don't buy into the God thing?

Something that I've learned: if you profess a faith in God, non-christains hold you to a higher standard.

Kinda neat

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » February 7, 2003, 7:41 pm

Got news for you Adex....not all people that believe in God are Christians. There actually are non-christians that believe in God <gasp>

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » February 7, 2003, 7:42 pm

*gasp* really?

heh,

I'm sure the same applies to a professing muslim, jew, or Mormon.

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » February 7, 2003, 7:47 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:I'm Baptist.

I do find it odd that the catholic clergy went easy on molesters in the past.

However, I also find it odd that non christains hold catholic clergy to a higher standard than the rest of society. I mean, what makes them so special if you don't buy into the God thing?

Something that I've learned: if you profess a faith in God, non-christains hold you to a higher standard.

Kinda neat

was this in response to me?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » February 7, 2003, 7:59 pm

Yea, Brax

Your post made me remember a die hard atheist friend of mine.

He was always first to rag on me if I slipped up and violated God's law.

No one likes a hypocrite. I appreciated his efforts.

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » February 7, 2003, 9:47 pm

hrm. i never said that i hold the clergy to a higher standard, just that the general population does and they have a right to. again, it's all the same to me.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » February 7, 2003, 10:01 pm

I understand. I don't specifcally aim my statement at you, rather a trend I've noticed in life.

Those that claim to be pious are held to a tighter standard by the non-pious around them.

I think there's a natural instinct in people to revel in the downfall of others.

We all smile quietly when a successful man goes bankrupt.
We all smile quietly when a priest is revealed to be less than holy.

At its base is selfishness and vainity.
We all have these traits to some extent.

Bashing catholic priests, is an expression of our personal vanity.

We are all flawed. We all fall short. We all struggle.

VeeshanVault

Catholics

Catholics

actually...