It would have been nice to have Champ in that game, if for nothing else but to keep the score a bit closer. The secondary was just sad, slow and exposed.
On the bright side, Von Miller had two more sacks and Dumerville looks healthy again. He was bullying that LT. Once the second quarter closed with that GB drive, however, Denver couldn't get as much pressure since they were forced to drop into a Dime. Even then, Rodgers was just torching everyone.
Fox will be stubborn for at least another game, apparently. How many losses must Kyle "Our Best Chance to Win" Orton contribute to before he gets the hook? Since neither Orton nor Quinn have contracts for next year, there is really only one option, and that is to see what the kid can do...Adam Weber!
yeah, its rough when you don't have the manpower to go man on man against teams like greenbay, indi (with peyton), and patriots...those QB's will fracking torch your zone defences! It is hard to watch too!
Jice Virago wrote:I am going to be the usual idiot I am this time of the year and put my predictions up for ridicule:
I don't think you can be ridiculed enough for those predictions:
Well at least I sacked up and put my opinion out there, unlike most of you pussies!
Anyhow, this week was business as usual, with the Cards Folding again (and the Diamond Backs to the Brew Crew) right on schedule.
Indi just can't quite make it to the end of a game.
Lions need to dominate a game before I consider them the real deal, especially one with a depleted secondary like the Cowboys.
Tony Romo is the biggest choke artist in the entire history of the NFL.
Jets should probably just kneel on the ball three times every possession and let their Defense score for them.
Ravens are good, but inconsistant. Looks like they will be the division winner (and one and done) this year.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
The Ravens certainly are an enigma. I can't figure them out at all. They went out and bought a slew of great receivers, so I understand their want to pass a lot. BUT...Ray Rice has been great in every game so far this year. Why wouldn't you go run happy, with a sprinkling of play action passes? Isn't that text book shit? If their sunday night game taught me anything, its that Joe Flacco is still over rated with all the cock gobbling announcers do on him. He's a slightly better than average QB, with a fantastic defense. Granted he's better than 16 teams have right now at the QB spot, but holy shit do announcers/analysts luv him way too much. I'm just glad Super Newton is blowing it up, gives them another young QB cock to gobble on.
With that said, I don't see how the Ravens lose the afc north this year...the Steelers, Bengals, and Browns are all just pathetic and woeful.
Four weeks in and you are already pretending Arizona doesn't have an NFL team? Well, actually they don't! BAZING!
But seriously, that Vikings game was the most fucked up thing I have seen in a while. Booing the team when they are up by four scores going into the half? Really? Plus, I hope Kolb got his money guarenteed, because he won't live past this season. Its a race between him and Cutler to see who will become the next David Carr....
I thought the Packers were going to lose for sure, but then I remembered Coach McFatty doesn't run the defense and Capers actually makes good adjustments. The Packer Defense leads in the one stat that matters, which is giving up points.
At least the Stealers can beat up on rookie teams.
Jets Pats game was interesting, but you take away the ludicrously biased officiating and its a much closer game. Pats still would have won it, though, as the Jets have lost their identity.
Best game of the week, however, was watching the Giants lose to a guy who is TJack's backup. Glorious!
Let the Teebow era begin! In two weeks after teams have prepared for Teebow, they will be screaming for Kyle Mother Fucking Orton to come back.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
STL, Seattle, DEN.... I think CAR will start winning. I think DEN will be 6-10 or thereabouts.
It's pretty fucking fun watching Timmah! play. It is awkward at times, but I've never had so much fun watching the losses from last year. And let's not forget the kid energizes the team. Great comeback v. Houston last year and almost pulled off the comeback last week (which was an almost mirror image of last January's game).
If the defense would do better against both pass and run (at same time), maybe the team gives hope for next year. Personally, I would like them to tank and get Lucky.
Just bears repeating. I am thinking about getting a T-Shirt with that on it, but no one outside of the vault would get the joke...
Anyhow, looking forward to the San Fran vs Detroit game this weekend, since the Packer game is going to amount to little more than a scrimmage. Should learn a lot about both teams. I know that San Fran is not as good as their record suggests, because they actually lost to the Cowboys, but the overall quality of their wins is superior to Detroit, who had to come from behind against the fucking Vikings. Detroit only has one quality win at this point, but I think Tampa Bay is now suspect if you take into account the baby seal clubbing that SF put on them last week.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
The Lions are only going to get more dangerous, as they become better at exploiting Johnson's over-coverage with some surprise runs and play action. Keeping the defense guessing is a common theme amongst contenders.
Leonaerd wrote:The Lions are only going to get more dangerous, as they become better at exploiting Johnson's over-coverage with some surprise runs and play action. Keeping the defense guessing is a common theme amongst contenders.
Hehe, you're such a homer...
I'll admit the Lions are looking pretty darn good this season... but they aren't that good
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
Outside of each other, niether team has much in their way before the end of the season, but I think Detroit has more tough games ahead of them than GB does, as the Packers have basically plowed through most of the hard part of their schedule. Outside of Chargers on the road and Raiders at home, GB has nothing outside of the Lions to concern them. Lions still have to go into New Orleans, Oakland, and host the Falcons and the Chargers. Carolina could also be a bit of a trap game for Detroit, but they should win. Coach McFatty is also a notorious brain farter, so the Pack could very easily drop a game to either the Giants or the Chiefs though poor coaching on his part.
My predictions down the stretch for both teams:
Lions-
Win against SF in another nail biter, lose to the Saints and Chargers. Split the series with GB, winning on thanks giving as the Pack plays the more physical lead in game on a short week.
Packers-
Run the table against everyone, but lose to Detroit on Turkey Day. Then McCarthy shits the bed against the Chiefs (I am calling it now!), making the final game in week 16 count, where the Packers take the Lions apart for the division. Packers then go on to do the same to the Lions in the NFC Championship game.
I think both teams are pretty imune to injury, unless Stafford gets hurt again, so the biggest wild card in my prediction is the coaching. I think Schwartz is a much better coach than McCarthy, but Capers is much better at making gold out of shit, since Ted Thompson and McCarthy horde all the fucking draft picks for offense. Thats what is going to ultimately be the difference in these two teams this year.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Leonaerd wrote:The Lions are only going to get more dangerous, as they become better at exploiting Johnson's over-coverage with some surprise runs and play action. Keeping the defense guessing is a common theme amongst contenders.
Hehe, you're such a homer...
I'll admit the Lions are looking pretty darn good this season... but they aren't that good
I would order them if enough people here would go in on it. It would be a hoot if I ever ran into one of you other south Orange County mofos while wearing one.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
What's the production cost of custom t-shirts like that? Assuming faux-TNT colors for VV logo and ht pink KMFO! Color on back of black hanes or whatever shirt? Hell, maybe 10 of us would buy in reality :)that includes maybe 4 Canucks, a few west-coasters and a some Minnewiscocians.
Only wacky Tshirt I have that folks recognize around here I'd Oregon Trail 'you have died of dysentary'
Don't give up on Kolb yet! He does look pretty skiddish back there though. They said from the film, he graded out pretty well even in a horrible game. I'll give him the season to see how he does.
Beanie's finally been solid this year.
49'ers have a three game lead but that can fade fast since all the teams suck in the West atm.
BTW, this year I bought the season pass for Game Rewind on NFL.com for 40.00 (it's 29.00, less as the season progresses)
it allows you to watch every game after they've been played and includes the game broken down by play so you can click on the play you want and jump right to that highlight. Worth it for 40.00 for the season, especially if you don't have NFL Ticket.
it's great for catching a game that wasn't in your area and scouting players for add/drops in FF. No commercials and being able to jump to parts makes it very nice. The only restrictions are you can't watch games when NFL games are being played live.
Yeah, looks like the Lions are not for real, after all. Forget Schwartz losing his cool after losing the dick waving war with Harbaugh. Forget the fact that the 9ers basically ran the ball at will. The big issue is the unfocused play and horrendous clock management in the 4th quarter by their offense, despite being at home. Stafford looked horrendous and that last drive had no urgency at all, which suggests that they had given up. Not a good sign. Best game of the week, though, by far. The Lions need another year or two to refine their talent and for Schwartz to calm the fuck down, then they will be Superbowl contenders.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
I wouldn't give up on Detroit yet, they're new to experiencing success and some bumps in the road are to be expected. The 49'ers are a lot better than I thought they'd be this year. It's not a horrible loss for the Lions.
Well, the issue with a loss like this is that the 9ers put down a pretty good template on how to beat Detroit, more or less exposing them as one dimensional. Further, you cannot play that kind of run defense (or 2 minute offense) and expect to win games late in the year, when it matters. I don't think losing their running back is a big deal because they don't run enough to miss him anyhow. The larger issue is Schwartz antics and the lack of mental discipline he brings that still seems to pervade this team, being reflected in the slack ass 4th quarter they put up yesterday. You don't go taunting the other sideline because they got a rule interpretation incorrect and you don't bull rush the other coach when he gets a little emotionally charged at the end of the game. Actions like that tend to permiate the entire team and result in sloppy execution and/or lack of ugency at key moments, just like what you saw from them yesterday in the 4th. The concentration and tenor of a team is always a reflection of its coaching.
The Packers were actually a lot like this, prior to last year, with Coach McFatty's lack of any discernable human emotion causing the team to fall flat in a lot of games, especially on defense. They lost games constantly, despite having virtually the same roster they have now, including that shootout humilation wild card game against Arizona. Insert Capers and some hefty local criticism, then all of a sudden the same guys are not brainfarting and playing to potential. Until the Lions reign in Schwartz and his dick waving, the team is going to reflect that and emotion will drive the team, rather than talent. The 9ers are good, but there is no way they should have even been in that game in the Lions own house, there is just too much of a talent disparity in the teams and the Lions had tons of momentum. Its not going to get any easier for them when Atlanta comes to town next week either, though they lack the kind of running offense San Fran has.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of a lack of discipline causing a 4th quarter collapse when the Lions have already come back from two different 20+ point deficits in the second half to win games this year. I'll stand by my belief that the Lions are already a playoff-caliber team, but still a couple years away from being a legitimate threat at a super bowl. That 49ers team is MUCH improved over the last couple years and they played a pretty good game.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
I'm just glad the Colts haven't won a game yet. It's nice having their fans knocked down a peg or two who thought they were the best team ever in the whole world.
Speaking of one-dimensional look at them. If they totally fall apart just because of one player being out they have an issue. Why wasn't the backup QB being trained and such? From what I hear even when the were winning by a lot in the 4th quarter Peyton wouldn't go out for the backup because he wanted to finish the games himself. What a stats whore! He made it all about him and now look were it's gotten them? Ah well it warms my heart every time they lose. And with winter coming I hope they keep losing. But maybe just not enough to get a top pick next year. Really tired of hearing the stupid "Suck for Luck" mantra. They suck because they suck not because they are trying to get a good pick out of it.
If a team really tried to tank it for the 1st overall pick, there would be more firings to the very people who did the tanking... so, it really just doesn't work.
There just happens to be quite a few shitty teams this season!
Welcome back to Carson Palmer to the NFL as well. The Raiders are going to trade for him. I heard a 2012 1st round pick and then a conditional 1st round pick in 2013.
Sylvus wrote:I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of a lack of discipline causing a 4th quarter collapse when the Lions have already come back from two different 20+ point deficits in the second half to win games this year. I'll stand by my belief that the Lions are already a playoff-caliber team, but still a couple years away from being a legitimate threat at a super bowl. That 49ers team is MUCH improved over the last couple years and they played a pretty good game.
Agree with you on all points, but with the following qualifier:
Those Lions comebacks came against the Vikings (probably actually the worst team in the league at the moment) and the Cowboys (who's Romo induced bouts of chocking are NFL legend), not against teams that have any measurable discipline. Schwartz is not a disciplined guy and a young team like that needs to have a disciplinarian at some level to make it through December.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
[quote=Aslanna]Some Patriots fanboi stuff.[/quote]
You are right about him not sitting out when they had 4th quarter leads, but part of that stems from his expanded role in the playcalling. The Colts got too comfortable with the idea that he would be there forever (Pats almost fell into the same trap) and never built around him. Also, mediocre defenses like what the Colts (and Pats) have tend to get exposed really fast when the offense struggles on any level. I have no clue what the fuck the Colts have been doing with their draft picks, however. They need to spend every pick for the next couple years on Oline, because Peyton or not, they will not get anywhere with that shitty protection. Part of their decline is also the lockout, since they had zero time to prepare anything for Peyton's absence this season.
Actually, a lot of teams are getting hosed by the lack of a full offseason, particularly those who made major roster changes. I think that is why Green Bay looks so invincible at the moment and why Atlanta and the Jets have taken such nose dives. Only the Pats, with their mercenary "come kiss Billicheats ass for two years and get your ring before you retire" mentality seems to be immune to it, and even they have some issues with Fat Albert and Brad Ochocinco, who are not really producing much. Teams with identical rosters from last season (other than the Stealers) are all doing pretty well. This has actually been the biggest quality disparity in teams that I can recall since the salary cap era began, with so many shitty teams and a lot of one loss teams this far along.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
So anyone who criticizes the Colts has to be a New England fan? I like New England just because everyone seems to hate them and sometimes that's a feeling I can relate to even if I'm not a vegan. So it makes me happy when people get all irate about them. Whether they win or lose really doesn't affect me when it's all said and done. Just as long as they beat the Colts whenever they play them would be good enough for me.
Anyway... I live in Indianapolis. I think I have the right to think they are a bunch of talentless assclowns and most of their fans are lacking when it comes to mental faculties.
Regardless... I'll keep reveling in the Colts misery. So far this has been the best football season in a long time!
I can't believe the Raiders were willing to overpay so badly for Palmer. A 1st and either another 1st or 2nd depending on whether he wins a playoff game for them is way too high.
I can't believe so much was made in the media about Schwarz and Harbaugh being idiots.
The Lions are going to be OK. They do need a running game, and they need to tighten the D a bit, but they are definately the 2 nd best team in the division... and thats not bad considering the Packers are the best in the NFC if not the entire NFL.
I think as far as lockout affected teams, it comes down to who relies heaviest on their D. Defenses have struggled pretty much everywhere. There are record numbers (or at least paces for records) being set across the league, particularly by passing attacks and I think it boils down to D schemes need more practice to get them ready/get used to what your guys are going to do. Jice brought up the Steelers and I think the biggest reason they are struggling more than some others is the D isn't in sync yet and the O-line in beyond patchwork: last weeks starting line up was the 6th different starting O line configuration they have used... and then Legursky went down, leaving Steeler fans to wonder where the bodies are going to come from...
Wulfran Moondancer
Stupid Sidekick of the Lambent Dorf
Petitioner to Club Bok Bok
Founding Member of the Barbarian Nation Movement
Yeah, no O Line, no chance. If the steelers manage the playoffs, it would be because the defense recovers from their bouts with awful. Although the secondary play has looked a lot better this year.
The lions lost...it had to happen eventually. Sometimes teams just have bad weeks. I'm sure the Lions will rebound just fine, and beat more ass by the end of the year. They aren't winning a superbowl, I don't think anyone believes that, but they have really come a long way.
I really wanted to post about Palmer and Mike Brown (bengals owner). I don't blame mr. brown for being a hypocrite, and lying about "not trading carson no matter what" thing, especially since he is getting SO MUCH for him. What team wouldn't trade a player for a 1st and then a 2nd round pick? A player who has shown he can do nothing but choke and implode. He's got great stats, but so does Romo. Palmer is just another one of those upper mediocre players that gets way to much hype around them. that's just an opinion though, and I"m sure lots have the opposite feelings about Carson.
Cardinals might just suck enough to get the first pick next year. Kolb shows signs of life once in awhile but what I mostly see is him scrambling out of the pocket and throwing the ball away. He's got that move down well.
I don't know if Arizona would draft Luck due to Kolb's contract but maybe they'd be able to get a huge trade deal done for the pick.
Detroit's not the same team without Best. Beanie doesn't have quite the impact Best does atm for Arizona but his absence pretty much guarantees a loss.
Cardinals are fucked for at least two years. Its going to take them that long to get a descent O-Line in front of Kolb, assuming he lives that long. He also lacks a descent clutch reciever, since his last one went to Atlanta. Unfortunately, they won't win the suck for Luck pool, since Indianapolis and the Rams are the real contenders in that contest.
Vikings played their balls off and it looked like the McCarthy Brainfart game was going to come early this year, but amazingly the Packer running game broke them late in the game. I like Frasier as a coach, but he gave up on Peterson way too early. Rodgers made their defense look retarded, though, outside of Jared Allen. I knew this game would be close, though, since the Vikes always play us tight and the Pack has a way of making debuting QBs all look like the next Tom Brady.
Lions choke on another donkey cock for the second week in a row. Lack of discipline, stupid penalties, and a general sluggish attitude pervaded that team all day. I am genuinely supprised that they lost to Atlanta, but that might have more to do with Atlanta finding its footing after last week. Still, back to back losses occuring when the training wheels part of the schedule is over does not bode well for this team. They need less dick waving and more focus or they won't even make wild card this year. They can forget the division, because even McFatty can't brain fart enough for them to catch up.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Jice Virago wrote:Cardinals are fucked for at least two years. Its going to take them that long to get a descent O-Line in front of Kolb, assuming he lives that long. He also lacks a descent clutch reciever, since his last one went to Atlanta.
I assume you mean Kolb needs a second clutch receiver because Larry Fitzgerald has been catching any trash ball thrown remotely close to him since Warner left. You haven't been watching any Cardinal games if you think Fitzgerald isn't the still the best hands receiver in the NFL. He doesn't blow routes and makes amazing catches that look like they were thrown the to DB instead of the WR.
I'll give Winnow his point about Fitzgerald being the real deal but Jice nailed a valid point, albeit obliquely: Arizona needs more than just Fitzgerald because he can't be the play every down they have the ball. Jice was also bang on about Arizona needing an O-line: Kolb's theme song on Sunday was "Run to the Hills" because Woodley and the Steelers D were going to kill him otherwise.
I laughed my ass off at the Jags beating the Ravens last night, somewhat akin to Aslanna laughing at the Sunday night game...
Wulfran Moondancer
Stupid Sidekick of the Lambent Dorf
Petitioner to Club Bok Bok
Founding Member of the Barbarian Nation Movement
