Who is the greatest post-war President?

[Sueven]

Too early for Obama to be included.

[Leonaerd]

Greatest as in - best completed the tasks their wealthy subscribers demanded of them? Greatest as in - best able to break the rules without getting caught?

I'm curious, really. My choice would be Obama, though. His celebrity appeal is overwhelming for even the most typically rational of sheep.

[Spang]

I chose Ike, but I think Clinton is the greatest former President, and the greatest President in my lifetime, even though he signed DOMA and DADT into law.

[Sueven]

Great means whatever you want it to. I picked the person who I think had the most positive overall net impact on the well-being of the nation and the world (LBJ).

[Xatrei]

I think in terms of raw ideological greatness, it's Carter hands down. He was ahead of his time in a lot of ways. In terms of positive accomplishments, I'd go with LBJ, although he has a lot of negatives, most notably his Vietnam policy, that bring him down IMO. Nixon, shadiness aside, is probably the best of the post-war republicans, and Eisenhower is probably next behind him. I'd place both of those in the middle of the pack. For me, it's an interesting and somewhat difficult question to answer, beyond Carter. I think everyone would agree that all of them have plenty of pros and cons, but in my (admittedly extreme) view choosing from this list is, for the most part, like choosing which turd smells the best. That's especially true for Reagan and both Bushes based solely on the damage they did to the Supreme Court, and without even getting into the myriad of other things that made them uberturds. Overall, I think I'd rank them like so:

Carter
Johnson
*Truman
Kennedy
Clinton
Nixon
Eisenhower
Ford
HW Bush
W Bush
Reagan

I predict that Obama would fit somewhere in the 2-4 range eventually, but as you stated in the original post, it's really too early to say.

BTW, Truman was, for the most part, a post-war president. The Germans were out within a month or so of him assuming the office and the Japanese surrendered before he'd been in office for 6 months. The bulk of his presidency was dealing with post-war issues. Despite several black marks against him, his involvement with the creation of the UN, NATO, desegregation of the US military and the Marshall Plan would probably place him 3rd on my list, edging out Kennedy. I suspect, however, that had Kennedy not been cut down early, he would have easily eclipsed Truman (and Johnson, assuming he would have even gotten the opportunity to be president in that circumstance). It would have been interesting to see how things might have been different had he taken advantage of his exemption from the 22nd Amendment and run for 3rd term. Of course it would also have been interesting to see how things would have been different had the Democrats successfully wooed Eisenhower instead of the Republicans.

[Winnow]

People ranking Obama anywhere except dead last at this point are out of their fucking minds. Jesus, do actual accomplishments mean anything or do we base everything off polls and brainwashing?

Eisenhower is the greatest post war president. Feel free to think of him every time you drive along an interstate highway.

The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, commonly called the Interstate Highway System (or simply the Interstate), is a network of limited-access highways (also called freeways or expressways) in the United States that is named for President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who championed its formation. The entire system, as of 2006[update], has a total length of 46,876 miles (75,440 km),[1] making it both the largest highway system in the world and the largest public works project in history.[2] The Interstate Highway System is a subsystem of the National Highway System.

Obama can't even get an overpriced crap ass health bill passed. Eisenhower is remembered for the greatest public work in history. You people need to wake up.

Not surprisingly, therefore, when Eisenhower became the 34th U.S. president in 1953, he pushed for the building of an interstate highway system. Although Congress had first authorized a national highway system in 1944, it had always been woefully underfunded. Throwing the full weight of his presidency behind the project, Eisenhower declared to Congress on February 22, 1955: 'Our unity as a nation is sustained by free communication of thought and by easy transportation of people and goods. The ceaseless flow of information throughout the Republic is matched by individual and commercial movement over a vast system of interconnected highways crisscrossing the country and joining at our national borders with friendly neighbors to the north and south.

'Together, the uniting forces of our communication and transportation systems are dynamic elements in the very name we bear — United States. Without them, we would be a mere alliance of many separate parts.'

Now that's a real president. Not this Obama waste of time. Oh, never mind. Eisenhower was a republican, I get it now.

[Xatrei]

Overreact much, Winnow? Seriously, did you see anyone seriously rank Obama anywhere yet? The closest anyone came was Leonard, who I'm reasonably sure was being sarcastic. Even if he wasn't, he bases his choice solely on Obama's celebrity factor, not his record of accomplishment (or imagined lack thereof). Next comes me predicting that he *might* end up 2nd to 4th depending on how his presidency plays out. Even so, I declined to include a ranking based on the yet-to-be seen result of his presidency. That said, if you truly believe that Obama accomplished nothing in his first year+ in office, you're blind. Media Matters For America put together a list highlighting his first year accomplishments. Much of last year, and this year so far, has been given over to health care reform. His accomplishments fall well short of what I had hoped to see from him, and his priorities have been a bit different than what I would have preferred, but I cannot discount what he has done simply because it's not precisely what I wanted. It's easy for critics to ignore his accomplishments when the media has been a party to that fraud. If things don't go well on Sunday, it will be even easier to sweep them under the rug, but doing so requires willfully turning a blind eye to the facts.

Eisenhower was easily one of the two best Republican presidents of the postwar era (I narrowly give the edge to Nixon as the best Republican), but to say that he's the greatest post-war president based solely on his support of the Federal Aid Highway Act is ludicrous.

[Leonaerd]

Overreact much, Winnow? Seriously, did you see anyone seriously rank Obama anywhere yet? The closest anyone came was Leonard, who I'm reasonably sure was being sarcastic. Even if he wasn't, he bases his choice solely on Obama's celebrity factor, not his record of accomplishment (or imagined lack thereof).

He's the greatest at getting people to help him accomplish what his puppet masters demand of him.

Presidents are hardly people. The man doesn't even play basketball in shorts.

[Wulfran]

BTW, Truman was, for the most part, a post-war president.

I agree and also with your assessment that he got a lot accomplished.

The Germans were out within a month or so of him assuming the office and the Japanese surrendered before he'd been in office for 6 months.

/sigh you're close but read a history book sometime... or even google the date. VE day was May 8th and VJ day was August 15. Inauguration Day in the US is Jan 20. I realize this is sorta splitting hairs, as Truman was in office for about 3 1/2 months of war with the Nazis and close to 7 with the Japanese but fuck me, we're talking about some of the most important days in the past couple hundred years.

As far as Kennedy, I think his vision of what he wanted the US to be was interesting but people tend to give him a pass on the fact that he was a dedicated cold warrior and was the man who wanted to raise the stakes in Vietnam. For the most part, LBJ was just following his lead. You can't take away his vision for things like where he wanted NASA to go but he also benefits from a lot of romantacized "what if..." thinking.

[Xatrei]

The Germans were out within a month or so of him assuming the office and the Japanese surrendered before he'd been in office for 6 months.

/sigh you're close but read a history book sometime... or even google the date. VE day was May 8th and VJ day was August 15. Inauguration Day in the US is Jan 20. I realize this is sorta splitting hairs, as Truman was in office for about 3 1/2 months of war with the Nazis and close to 7 with the Japanese but fuck me, we're talking about some of the most important days in the past couple hundred years.

Why don't you read that history book . Roosevelt was inaugurated in January, and then he went and died on 12 April, at which time Truman took office. The Germans were out of the war less than a month later, and the Japanese surrendered 4 months and 3 days later.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

LBJ was a crook. He was quite literally the Dick Cheney of the 60's. The company he awarded contracts to in the war that he had ties to is actually a subsidiary of Haliburton. Sure, he gave us Medicare which has worked out so well that health care reform has turned into a shitstorm.

I actually voted here for another dirty politician in Nixon. He was the only true moderate President in the last 60 years. With the policies he had I think that if he were here now (and eligible) that he could run for either party and win. You don't see politicians like him anymore. He was one of the greatest peacemakers we have had in the White House since WWI and what many forget is that he was a civil rights leader.

[Winnow]

As far as Kennedy, I think his vision of what he wanted the US to be was interesting but people tend to give him a pass on the fact that he was a dedicated cold warrior and was the man who wanted to raise the stakes in Vietnam. For the most part, LBJ was just following his lead. You can't take away his vision for things like where he wanted NASA to go but he also benefits from a lot of romantacized "what if..." thinking.

What?

There's an excellent chance the reason Kennedy was assassinated was because he wanted to pull out of Vietnam. As Kilmoll alluded to, LBJ was pure evil and most likely in on the assassination of JFK in order to make sure the US stayed in Vietnam so the corrupt war machine companies made their money. Vietnam was the low point for America. I'm not saying the same thing isn't happening in Iraq and Afghanistan to an extent, but at least there, the troops are being taken care of for the most part while the war machine makes a profit. Kilmoll is dead on in comparing LBJ to Cheney except Cheney didn't have to take out Bush to accomplish what he wanted.

[Zaelath]

I'm not saying the same thing isn't happening in Iraq and Afghanistan to an extent, but at least there, the troops are being taken care of for the most part while the war machine makes a profit. Kilmoll is dead on in comparing LBJ to Cheney except Cheney didn't have to take out Bush to accomplish what he wanted.

So what you're saying is you're pretty comfortable with war profiteering and in fact going to and staying in war for the profit of a small group of individuals at the expense of the taxpayer and your soldier's lives, but a bit of the old socialised medicine is too far?

Nice perspective.

And before you deny, I think you should prove you haven't traded in military stocks.

I'm Ben Gleck.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

What idiots actually picked Carter? Liberals and Conservatives alike have widely regarded him as one of the worst of all time.

[Winnow]

I'm not saying the same thing isn't happening in Iraq and Afghanistan to an extent, but at least there, the troops are being taken care of for the most part while the war machine makes a profit. Kilmoll is dead on in comparing LBJ to Cheney except Cheney didn't have to take out Bush to accomplish what he wanted.

So what you're saying is you're pretty comfortable with war profiteering and in fact going to and staying in war for the profit of a small group of individuals at the expense of the taxpayer and your soldier's lives, but a bit of the old socialised medicine is too far?

Nice perspective.

And before you deny, I think you should prove you haven't traded in military stocks.

I'm Ben Gleck.

I'm not saying I'm comfortable with it, I'm saying it's a fair comparison.

I trade in crappy energy stocks and tech microcaps mostly. Buy Chinese solar stocks you bastards! Don't you care about the environment?

[Canelek]

I went with Nixon. I liked how Reagan handled foreign policy as well, but his terms did not really follow major wars as so much as 3rd world battles and covert drug/weapons smuggling.

[Jice Virago]

Carter got hounded by the conservatards on a scale that rivaled Obama and Clinton. He actually had some really forward thinking ideas that got shot down by the culture of consumption at the time. For the sake of this argument, assuming we are talking about actual accomplishments, lets put Carter near the bottom of the pile, just above the two Bushes.

My top two guys are deffinately Truman and Clinton. Both made mistakes, but they put the US in the strongest positive foreign influence position of any president in history and put the US economy on track.

Nixon is deffinately my number three. He was a bastard and a crook, but a lot got done on his watch. If W had accomplished 1/10th of what Nixon did, no one would have given much of a shit that he was as evil as Nixon. Really, he had us out of Vietnam before Watergate shitcanned everything he was working for in that direction. Had the Roves working for him not done the Watergate breakin, he probably would have went down as the best president of the 20th century.

Ike, JFK, and LBJ kind of round out the middle of the pack for me. They all did and said important things, but their positive accomplisments came with some pretty major negatives. In particular, JFK could have come off as a much greater president if he had spent less time fucking over our foreign intelligence aparatus and sticking his dick in Maralyn Monroe.

Saint Ronnie is tied for Carter for me. In a lot of ways he is the Anti-Carter, where Carter had good ideas that he could not achieve, while Ron had aweful ideas that he was able to ram through with charisma, soundbites, and outright underhanded bullshit. He got a lot done, but it was all negative. It was basically the beginning of the transformation of the GOP from the fiscally sound moderates they were to the Jesus loving nutjobs they have become. No one did more the erosion of the middle class than Reagan. The man was charismatic, but he was a racist homophobe who through anyone under the bus when he felt it would bennefit him.

[Wulfran]

The Germans were out within a month or so of him assuming the office and the Japanese surrendered before he'd been in office for 6 months.

/sigh you're close but read a history book sometime... or even google the date. VE day was May 8th and VJ day was August 15. Inauguration Day in the US is Jan 20. I realize this is sorta splitting hairs, as Truman was in office for about 3 1/2 months of war with the Nazis and close to 7 with the Japanese but fuck me, we're talking about some of the most important days in the past couple hundred years.

Why don't you read that history book . Roosevelt was inaugurated in January, and then he went and died on 12 April, at which time Truman took office. The Germans were out of the war less than a month later, and the Japanese surrendered 4 months and 3 days later.

OK this is where I apologize to you for my brain cramp and go back to my cave, where I can't hurt anyone or thing...

[Xatrei]

Hah - stick around and join the conversation. You didn't hurt my feelings I hope my response was taken in the good natured manner it was intended. No apology for anything is necessary.

[Siji]

Obama can't even get an overpriced crap ass health bill passed.

orly?

[Winnow]

Obama can't even get an overpriced crap ass health bill passed.

orly?

It's not over yet.

[Spang]

It's not over yet.

Yes it is.

[Winnow]

It's not over yet.

Yes it is.

No it isn't.

[miir]

It's not over yet.

Yes it is.

No it isn't.

FUK U HITLER!

[Xatrei]

It's not over yet.

Yes it is.

No it isn't.

In addition to having no f'ing clue about what's in the HCR *law*, you really don't even have a clue of what's going on in the Senate right now, do you? The HCR bill passed on Sunday and was signed into law on Tuesday. It's done. It is the law of the land. All that's happening now is a bunch of Republican (and a conservative Democrat) state attorneys general are pursuing a futile legal challenge, and the Senate is working to pass the House's fixes to the HCR law that were passed shortly after passing the Senate's HCR bill on SUnday. If the Senate for some reason doesn't pass the fixes, it doesn't change the fact that the HCR bill became a law. It just means that the current fix-it bill doesn't go to the President, and it might have to go back to the house for a new vote.