You've met the pimp, now meet his hos!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 23, 2010, 3:39 pm

This is the Veeshan Vault, people. I think some of you need to clean the sand out of your vaginas.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 23, 2010, 3:43 pm

Trek wrote:So you all want Midnyte gone because he has oppinions different then yours? I mean how much more of a liberal circle jerk do you all need to make you feel that much better then everyone else

Where do you get "you all" from? I admit it was pleasant around here when he was still gone and I wouldn't mind seeing him hit the road once more but it has nothing to do with having opinions different than mine. So take your "you all" and shove it. I mean I know Midnyte loves playing the victim and all but come on.

Trek wrote:if Mid had said the same thing this thread would be 80 pages long about how fucked up he is for it and should be banned or something.

Again, baseless gibberish. 80 pages lol. One or two people may have said something about it but I doubt there would be any calls for a ban. You've already got your ban martyr so shut the fuck up and move on.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 23, 2010, 3:51 pm

Spang wrote:This is the Veeshan Vault, people. I think some of you need to clean the sand out of your vaginas.

That didn't seem to work for Cart.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 23, 2010, 3:55 pm

Winnow wrote:That didn't seem to work for Cart.

I never supported that ban.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 23, 2010, 3:56 pm

Trek wrote:I dont see any difference from Mid's one liners to Nick calling everyone a stupid American twat. Giving a pass because you want him gone is a cop-out to me, if Mid had said the same thing this thread would be 80 pages long about how fucked up he is for it and should be banned or something. Would you give him the pass as well if he was just trying to get Spang to leave? If so, its my guess all of Mids posts have been trying to get 'the libs' to leave and he should be given a pass for anything he may have said

I wouldn't give a crap because it's pretty much the type of thing that I expect out of Midnyte. Spang's motives certainly are worth considering when determining how great of an offense he committed. He was just trolling for a reaction, and that's just not a big deal to me. There is no shortage of people around here that have engaged in cunty behavior from time to time, it's part of the board, but most people recognize it for what it is, argue a bit and move on. I'm not sure who these imaginary throngs of ban fanatics are that you think are lurking just waiting for someone to say something repugnant so they can leap into action. I'm certainly not one to ask for people to be banned. I'm fully capable of ignoring someone when I want to, and from what I've seen, that is a sentiment shared by the majority of people around here, whether on the left or the right of American center. There are people here that I don't miss when they're not around, but no one that I'd want to be forced away from the board. For the record, I wasn't one of the handful of people clammoring for Cart to be banned either. I just didn't have any sympathy for him getting what he asked for. I wouldn't give half a shit if he was reinstated, and I don't give half a shit if his ban continues.

I think that you assume way too much about other people's motives.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 23, 2010, 3:59 pm

Xatrei wrote: Spang's motives certainly are worth considering when determining how great of an offense he committed. He was just trolling for a reaction, and that's just not a big deal to me.

Kind of like Cart was trolling for a reaction.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 23, 2010, 4:29 pm

Never said it wasn't. I'm not sure why you feel it necessary to reply with some unrelated tidbit about Cartalas. I don't give a fuck about him one way or the other. I never have. Look up my old posts on the subject if you want, it just doesn't matter to me. Keep stroking yourself over it if you want, but it means nothing to me.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » January 23, 2010, 6:42 pm

Your right Aslanna all baseless gibberish, I will actually shut the fuck up and move on as this is pretty much the expected result in any debate around here. Big bad keyboard users telling everyone to fuck off because they have the intarweb between them and the rest of us. Sports and movies are about the only reason I even come here anymore and thats where I will go back to. So congratulate yourself on a masterful dick swinging

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 23, 2010, 7:05 pm

I almost felt bad for my fucked up statement earlier in this thread, but then I saw Midnyte's response to the corporate takeover of our democracy.

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Not surprising the Dems would change the rules to give them an edge. Hilarious.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 23, 2010, 7:19 pm

I'm embarrassed for having posted in this thread. I apologize.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 23, 2010, 7:51 pm

I mistakingly thought I could come back here and take part in the topics at hand without personal attacks on my family. Maybe even without the constant attacks on my hugely untrue reputation I have been given. Every one on this board has made opinions and statements that would be thought of as complete politically incorrect. "Fuck Muslims" is one of mine. It is used against me at every turn. Funny how I don't use one phrase someone else has made against them at every turn. That is because it doesn't pertain to the topic being discussed at that time.

Many people on this board actually know me pretty well from the time they have spent with me in game. They know I am not the guy you contine to try and paint me as. I am not politically correct and dare to share many conservative values. I really wished I could take part in these discussions and have fun with the back and forth. I keep taking breaks thinking to myself, there is no way they will continue to make personal attacks on me just because of my opinion. Especially since they are often those from the more liberal and "thoughtful" side of the political spectrum.

I guess you win again. I may try again in a little bit, because I'm not a quitter.

Be good guys.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 23, 2010, 8:21 pm

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 23, 2010, 8:25 pm

Nick wrote:Threatening people's kids/being a massive asshole about people's kids causes less ire amongst the anal retentive self congratulatory moderators here than pointing out that people cannot spell the word "due" correctly.

No wonder the place died.

Teh VV lives on! Your thread was confusing at best.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 23, 2010, 8:51 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Blah, blah, blah.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » January 23, 2010, 9:31 pm

What? It's lack of staying true to conversatives values is what lost it the elections in 2008.

You're delusional if you really believe that. They lost elections in 2008 because they turned off moderate republicans and independents by choosing an extremely right-wing religious fanatic for McCain's running mate. Many of those moderates and independents ended up voting for Obama because they haven't liked the social conservative direction of the GOP and saw the Palin as yet another victory for the religious right.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 23, 2010, 9:54 pm

And here I thought it was only pussy libs that had victim complexes.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 23, 2010, 10:22 pm

Nobody plays the victim better than Midnyte. Trek is pretty close though. To think this place is called Veeshan Vault. May was well rename it Sesame Street Vault or Romper Room Vault. I haven't seen a bigger bunch of babies anywhere on the internets!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 24, 2010, 3:24 am

Keverian FireCry wrote:
What? It's lack of staying true to conversatives values is what lost it the elections in 2008.
You're delusional if you really believe that. They lost elections in 2008 because they turned off moderate republicans and independents by choosing an extremely right-wing religious fanatic for McCain's running mate. Many of those moderates and independents ended up voting for Obama because they haven't liked the social conservative direction of the GOP and saw the Palin as yet another victory for the religious right.

ding ding ding.....we have a winner! Palin was a huge huuuuuge mistake as a running mate. Even though I am religious, it was a terrible time to have another person in office that would undoubtedly push religion from office like Bush did. Don't get me wrong, it did not offend me in any way, but I do think the highest office should not be pushing any religious agenda. It is the same reason I did not want Romney running and fear he would be another poor choice for 2012 as it is just too soon.

Personally, I do not want the far right in office any more than I want the far left. Both are bad for the country if left unchecked. Palin needs to disappear from politics and go into porn or something. I do wonder how the presidential election would have gone had McCain had competent advisors and chose a moderate like Lieberman as a running mate.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » January 24, 2010, 6:01 am

Sorry to burst your bubble, but McCain could not have beaten Obama regardless of his running mate. Of course, there is no way to prove that, but the atmosphere of the election was such that McCain really didn't have a chance in hell. Maybe if the economy didn't crash, but even then Obama just had so much momentum and such a glorious campaign that there's really no woulda coulda shoulda with McCain.

On a side note, all this talk of children reminds me of Atokal. I promise you that guy had to deal with much nastier personal attacks than Midnyte, I know because I'm the one who dealt them. Man I miss that guy, he was such an easy target and he brought me so many hours of entertainment. As I've always said, anyone who is thin-skinned enough to allow VV to get under their skin, really deserves to be ridiculed. It's a fucking internet message board people, get a grip on reality.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » January 24, 2010, 9:36 am

Comparing Funk to Mid is a grievous injustice. Funk is capable of changing his position, and doesn't take a position merely to be a master baiter.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 24, 2010, 1:32 pm

Kilmoll, who do you see as an ideal 2012 republican candidate?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 24, 2010, 1:52 pm

There lies the problem Suev. Right now, the GOP has no REAL viable candidate that I can see making a successful run (unless it is pure publica backlash voting against Obama like what just happened in Mass) on their own merits. They will HAVE to run a moderate or they will lose the votes of all those in the middle. Boehner would have been a good candidate, but his name has been involved too much with being a rabid Obama basher. I don't see a real candidate coming up until late 2011 or early 2012. It will have to be someone who campaigns like Brown did with his "people's seat" platform.

Right now, I see Palin and Romeny as a death sentence for that race. Involvement of either of them is a sure loss. I would say Huckabee would be the guy they start pushing right now, but I don't think the real candidate will emerge for a while yet.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 24, 2010, 1:59 pm

Unless someone runs against Obama, I'll be voting for Palin in the primaries.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 24, 2010, 2:36 pm

It doesn't bode well for the democrats that it took a perfect shit storm on the Republican side of things for them to get someone into the White House.

The current republican candidates are all crap. Of course Pain and Romney, but Huckabee is some smooth talking religious guy that will also fail. Gotta keep religion as far away form the White House as possible.

Bush was a nobody besides his dad. I can see someone like Scott Brown being placed at the top by the Republicans to be a puppet like Bush Jr was for Cheney. It won't take much to defeat Obama considering his failure to get anything done so far besides party and play basketball. He practically received a mandate and still can't accomplish shit.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » January 24, 2010, 9:11 pm

Spang wrote:Unless someone runs against Obama, I'll be voting for Palin in the primaries.

I see a new raft of "registered republicans" to vote for Palin in the primaries ><

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » January 25, 2010, 9:39 am

Winnow wrote:It doesn't bode well for the democrats that it took a perfect shit storm on the Republican side of things for them to get someone into the White House.

Time will tell, but they seem to have blown it already. Pelosi is already doing her possum impression.

I listened to a joint interview of a tea partier and an AFL-CIO PR rep, they aren't that far apart on most things. I don't expect anything to come of it, but it has interesting potential.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2010, 10:15 am

1. Pelosi is the last person who's laying down and dying; she's the strongest fighter that the Democrats have. Harry Reid may be laying down and dying, as are the Blue Dog Dems, and the Progressive Caucus isn't making anything easier, and... but Nancy Pelosi will be the last person fighting.

2. If you can find me a tea party group that would get on board with a union agenda, I'll be amazed. There are some appealing synergies-- populist, anti-corporate, power to the people, etc-- but labor has been so demonized by right-wing media, and aspects of the labor agenda are anathema to the tea party, I can't see it happening. Tea party-style candidates may be able to pull some more labor votes than typical republicans, but I don't see any way that they win widespread union support. Labor is very well entrenched on the left.

The biggest threat to the Dem's relationship with labor is an inability to accomplish any of labor's priorities. The unions put forth a huge amount of effort into electing Democrats in 2008, hoping that they could enact EFCA. Then EFCA got pushed back to at best the sixth legislative priority (after stimulus, healthcare, financial regulation, climate change, immigration reform). And Democrats only made it to 1.5 on their list. Why should unions sink so much effort into electing Democrats if it won't create increased energy for their political agenda? The Democrats shouldn't be worried about labor defecting to the Republicans (the tea partiers are sure as fuck not going to accept card check), but they should be worried about a dramatic decrease in labor support and mobilization.

Democrats have this problem all over the place-- they can't do anything for way too many of their constituencies (how does DADT still exist?!?!). This is something that the Republicans are good at. Republicans during the Bush administration managed to either take major actions that please their various constituencies (tax cuts for the tax cut folks, Patriot Act for the national security folks, etc) or managed to at least take several symbolic steps that demonstrate how much they care, even if they don't make much of a real-world difference (Office of Faith-Based Initiatives for the religious folks, Terri Schiavo and Partial-Birth Abortion for the pro-life faction). Democrats under Obama have yet to appease many of their constituencies-- what have they done for labor? Nothing. Gays? Nothing (well, they signed a hate-crimes bill, which merits a golf clap, I guess). Hispanics? Well, they appointed Sotomayor at least, but action on immigration is what everyone really wants. African-Americans? Well, they've re-energized the Civil Rights Division, but that's about it.

Democrats are going to have to come up with some way of re-energizing those groups (who are generally PISSED) without alienating white independent/moderate sorts if they're going to rebound in 2012.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » January 25, 2010, 2:16 pm

Sueven wrote:Democrats have this problem all over the place-- they can't do anything for way too many of their constituencies (how does DADT still exist?!?!). This is something that the Republicans are good at. Republicans during the Bush administration managed to either take major actions that please their various constituencies (tax cuts for the tax cut folks, Patriot Act for the national security folks, etc) or managed to at least take several symbolic steps that demonstrate how much they care, even if they don't make much of a real-world difference (Office of Faith-Based Initiatives for the religious folks, Terri Schiavo and Partial-Birth Abortion for the pro-life faction). Democrats under Obama have yet to appease many of their constituencies-- what have they done for labor? Nothing. Gays? Nothing (well, they signed a hate-crimes bill, which merits a golf clap, I guess). Hispanics? Well, they appointed Sotomayor at least, but action on immigration is what everyone really wants. African-Americans? Well, they've re-energized the Civil Rights Division, but that's about it.

Democrats are going to have to come up with some way of re-energizing those groups (who are generally PISSED) without alienating white independent/moderate sorts if they're going to rebound in 2012.

The thing that gets me, is why do people expect Obama and the Dems can accomplish in 12 months what it took Bush and Co. 4-8 years to do with outside events providing extra impetus. I'm not a supporter of Obama per se but WTH do people want him to with the clusterfuck handed to him? Even in a favourable climate it takes time for things to fall in line, nevermind times like the current one.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » January 25, 2010, 2:46 pm

Wulfran wrote:The thing that gets me, is why do people expect Obama and the Dems can accomplish in 12 months what it took Bush and Co. 4-8 years to do with outside events providing extra impetus. I'm not a supporter of Obama per se but WTH do people want him to with the clusterfuck handed to him? Even in a favourable climate it takes time for things to fall in line, nevermind times like the current one.

Half the game is managing expectations, silence is not a way to do that.

Bush isn't a good example for comparison. Clinton round 1 is an example of what not to do. Regan is an example of what to do. Stand up and talk.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 25, 2010, 3:26 pm

Wulfran wrote: The thing that gets me, is why do people expect Obama and the Dems can accomplish in 12 months what it took Bush and Co. 4-8 years to do with outside events providing extra impetus. I'm not a supporter of Obama per se but WTH do people want him to with the clusterfuck handed to him? Even in a favourable climate it takes time for things to fall in line, nevermind times like the current one.

It does not help his case when he has outspent the entire Bush decade in one year. It does not help his case when his "stimulus package" that they pushed through without reading it, did absoutely jack shit because it was all geared at pet projects that stimulated nothing but their own bank accounts. It does not help his case when he tries to ram a health care package through that will cost the people another $2 trillion without doing jack shit to actually fix the underlying problems. It does not help his case when he and his dumbasses planned to push cap and trade through by spring on the tails of that health care bill. It does not help that he has plans already in place for a second "stimulus package". The list of spending for this group of fucking clowns is staggering. Every dime spent has to come from taxpayers....and with a shrinking group of taxpayers that is going to make the ones who DO work pay even more.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » January 25, 2010, 4:07 pm

People here comment all the time about how horrible the Christians are without a second thought. Soon as someone says something about a different religion then people are all up in arms?

Is it because most people on this board are most likely Christians (or brought up that way) so we can slam our own religion? Much like how Blacks can use the 'N' word but should someone who isn't Black say it then big trouble ensues?

Question about the Veteren comment about Spang being one and if Midnyte was...what difference does that make?

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 25, 2010, 7:46 pm

Is it because most people on this board are most likely Christians (or brought up that way) so we can slam our own religion?

Did it occur to you as a possiblity that people slam Christianity because it's Batshit Zeus Insanity? Irrationality has no defense.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 25, 2010, 9:27 pm

Fuck Christians!

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » January 25, 2010, 10:56 pm

Ban?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2010, 11:35 pm

I would just ask Kilmoll to explain how Bush went about funding No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.

Bubba wrote:Question about the Veteren comment about Spang being one and if Midnyte was...what difference does that make?

I was just curious. I seem to remember Spang being in the military. If he fought in Iraq or Afghanistan, that would have an impact on how I evaluate what he says about Islam and violence. Same with Midnyte-- if he fought in the first Gulf War, that'd have an effect, as compared to fighting the war from Scranton, PA. Wouldn't make what they say any more or less valid, but it would impact how I'd interpret them.

and:

Bubba wrote:People here comment all the time about how horrible the Christians are without a second thought. Soon as someone says something about a different religion then people are all up in arms?

The situation where someone on here criticizes Christianity is almost always the same: A person criticizing a dominant or powerful group to its face while also being a product of that group. That is, it's usually a white guy who's either a Christian or of generally Christian descent criticizing Christianity to an audience of other white guys who are Christians or or generally Christian descent. And don't give me that "I'm 1/32nd Native American" bullshit.

Saying "Fuck Muslims" in this forum, on the other hand, involves a member of a dominant or powerful group insulting a powerful group that is often perceived as alien or an enemy without the targeted group even being present to hear it.

Your analogy is pretty much correct. The first situation is basically the same as when a black person uses the N word. The second situation is when you have a bunch of white dudes sitting around talking about fucking n******.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 25, 2010, 11:50 pm

Sueven wrote:I was just curious. I seem to remember Spang being in the military. If he fought in Iraq or Afghanistan, that would have an impact on how I evaluate what he says about Islam and violence.

Yes, I'm an Iraq War veteran. I was in Kuwait when it started.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » January 26, 2010, 11:33 am

Thanks for the clairification Sueven.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 26, 2010, 12:20 pm

Sueven wrote:
Bubba wrote:People here comment all the time about how horrible the Christians are without a second thought. Soon as someone says something about a different religion then people are all up in arms?
The situation where someone on here criticizes Christianity is almost always the same: A person criticizing a dominant or powerful group to its face while also being a product of that group. That is, it's usually a white guy who's either a Christian or of generally Christian descent criticizing Christianity to an audience of other white guys who are Christians or or generally Christian descent. And don't give me that "I'm 1/32nd Native American" bullshit.

Saying "Fuck Muslims" in this forum, on the other hand, involves a member of a dominant or powerful group insulting a powerful group that is often perceived as alien or an enemy without the targeted group even being present to hear it.

Your analogy is pretty much correct. The first situation is basically the same as when a black person uses the N word. The second situation is when you have a bunch of white dudes sitting around talking about fucking n******.

that is a load of horseshit right there. If you are anti-religion then you are anti-religion. the only group that it is ok to persecute in this country today is Christians. Anyone can say whatever the fuck they want as long as it is about Christians. If someone does anything to a Muslim they paint it as intolerance and bigotry. It is a giant crock of hypocritical horseshit.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 26, 2010, 1:27 pm

Personally, I do not want the far right in office any more than I want the far left. Both are bad for the country if left unchecked. Palin needs to disappear from politics and go into porn or something. I do wonder how the presidential election would have gone had McCain had competent advisors and chose a moderate like Lieberman as a running mate.

Yup. Although I still doubt McCain would have won--he certainly would have fared better! Even Huckabee would have been a better choice. At least Mike is well-spoken and intelligent. As for Lieberman, it would have shown better results, as most people have forgotten his role in the PMRC and media censorship.

Most of his strength was diminished after he got asscapped by Bush back in 2000. Let's not forget the McCain/Palin media failure of trying to dupe the average American into believing they were truly behind "hockey moms" and "Joe the Plumber". Many fell for the ruse, but not quite enough!

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 26, 2010, 2:18 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:that is a load of horseshit right there. If you are anti-religion then you are anti-religion. the only group that it is ok to persecute in this country today is Christians. Anyone can say whatever the fuck they want as long as it is about Christians. If someone does anything to a Muslim they paint it as intolerance and bigotry. It is a giant crock of hypocritical horseshit.

Persecuted? Really? Your faith, Christianity, is shared by the majority of this country. It's practically impossible for a politician to get elected in this country unless he publicly sucks Christ's cock. Because of the relatively recently adopted affinity that many Christians hold for Jews, they have a chance if they happen to have a large Jewish constituency to help them out. Somehow, Jews represent nearly 10% of all members of both houses of Congress, in spite of the fact that they're something on the order of 1.5% of the population. If you're Islamic, Buddhist, or god forbid (literally), an Atheist, good luck. You persecuted Christian types will go on the attack with ads and whisper campaigns to make sure that everyone knows what a godless, evil, Jesus hating demon-spawn you are and, that you're therefore unfit for the office you seek. There have been a tiny handful of people who profess one of these "alternate" views in the entire history of the country, but they're nowhere close to representing the number of Americans holding these views.

Christianity is the only religion for which major religious holidays are recognized as federal holidays. Want Ramadan, Holla Mohalla or Darwin's birthday off to celebrate your views? Too bad - use your own personal time for your whacky sinner's ideas. I've never walked up to a stranger on the street to tell someone that they're wasting their time with the religion they practice. On the other hand, there have been many occasions that I've been told by complete strangers that I'm going to hell if I don't find Jesus for any perceived non-Christian beliefs expressed by Darwin Fish, Obama bumper stickers, or FSM t-shirts or a Jesusite eavesdropping on a quiet, private conversation about evolution or atheism. Just two weeks ago, I was accused of being godless and on the way to hell by a retard at Barnes and Noble who, while reaching for his copy of Townhall Magazine, noticed I was thumbing through a copy of International Socialist Review.

Too many people like you, Kilmoll, interpret any expression of an alternate view as an attack on your own . When it comes to legitimate criticisms, you're too thin-skinned, and perhaps too insecure in your own beliefs, to handle it and you cry and scream - laughably - about how it's *your* beliefs that are persecuted and on the defensive. You need to get a grip, man. Unless, of course, you just like pretending to be a victim.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 26, 2010, 2:22 pm

Persecute:
1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.

Majority or not, it is still persecution.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 26, 2010, 2:25 pm

To follow up with my own opinion on the subject of "getting up in arms" about Midnyte's years-old comment, "fuck the muslims," I think there's more to it than just being critical of Islam. Often, the rabid anti-Muslim commentary by a lot of Americans, especially after 9/11 seems to be more of a veiled racist attack on the brown people living in Islamic portions of the country than a critique of the religion itself. Midnyte's posting history, particularly at the time that he made the comment, certainly plays into that perception.

I have no problem with anyone saying "Fuck Islam, Judaisim, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and every other religious fantasy," and I'm perfectly willing to say it myself.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 26, 2010, 2:26 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Persecute:
1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.

Majority or not, it is still persecution.

My point being that neither of those things are happening on any significant scale in the real world. A handful of vocal, opinionated people (on both sides of the argument) hashing things out on an internet message board doesn't constitute persecution. Plus, if we're going to use that definition for religious persecution, non-Christians suffer far more "persectuion" at the hands of the majority view than any Christian has genuinely experience since Romans used Christians as decorative lighting.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » January 26, 2010, 2:27 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:that is a load of horseshit right there. If you are anti-religion then you are anti-religion. the only group that it is ok to persecute in this country today is Christians. Anyone can say whatever the fuck they want as long as it is about Christians. If someone does anything to a Muslim they paint it as intolerance and bigotry. It is a giant crock of hypocritical horseshit.
Persecuted? Really? Your faith, Christianity, is shared by the majority of this country. It's practically impossible for a politician to get elected in this country unless he publicly sucks Christ's cock. Because of the relatively recently adopted affinity that many Christians hold for Jews, they have a chance if they happen to have a large Jewish constituency to help them out. Somehow, Jews represent nearly 10% of all members of both houses of Congress, in spite of the fact that they're something on the order of 1.5% of the population. If you're Islamic, Buddhist, or god forbid (literally), an Atheist, good luck. You persecuted Christian types will go on the attack with ads and whisper campaigns to make sure that everyone knows what a godless, evil, Jesus hating demon-spawn you are and, that you're therefore unfit for the office you seek. There have been a tiny handful of people who profess one of these "alternate" views in the entire history of the country, but they're nowhere close to representing the number of Americans holding these views.

Christianity is the only religion for which major religious holidays are recognized as federal holidays. Want Ramadan, Holla Mohalla or Darwin's birthday off to celebrate your views? Too bad - use your own personal time for your whacky sinner's ideas. I've never walked up to a stranger on the street to tell someone that they're wasting their time with the religion they practice. On the other hand, there have been many occasions that I've been told by complete strangers that I'm going to hell if I don't find Jesus for any perceived non-Christian beliefs expressed by Darwin Fish, Obama bumper stickers, or FSM t-shirts or a Jesusite eavesdropping on a quiet, private conversation about evolution or atheism. Just two weeks ago, I was accused of being godless and on the way to hell by a retard at Barnes and Noble who, while reaching for his copy of Townhall Magazine, noticed I was thumbing through a copy of International Socialist Review.

Too many people like you, Kilmoll, interpret any expression of an alternate view as an attack on your own . When it comes to legitimate criticisms, you're too thin-skinned, and perhaps too insecure in your own beliefs, to handle it and you cry and scream - laughably - about how it's *your* beliefs that are persecuted and on the defensive. You need to get a grip, man. Unless, of course, you just like pretending to be a victim.

I'm gonna keep my comments on most of the conversation to myself, however I did want to mention this part. While it might not be done the best way now, can you imagine if we got every damn religious day of the year off? No one would ever fucking work. Granted, companies could just stay open most of those days, give people all a set number of personal holidays and watch everyone take the same days off... I mean, if I didn't celebrate Christmas I wouldn't want to be one of like 3 people in the office that day.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 26, 2010, 2:33 pm

Sueven wrote: Saying "Fuck Muslims" in this forum, on the other hand, involves a member of a dominant or powerful group insulting a powerful group that is often perceived as alien or an enemy without the targeted group even being present to hear it.

I'm also going with the horseshit on this comment. if anything, this board has more atheists and agnostics than anything. A religion doesn't get a free ride simply because it's not the dominant religion on the board.

Recall the phrase. "this is the 80's, America loves black people"? Protection of minorities swung so far to the other extreme that we have dumbasses being promoted simply because of the color of their skin due to affirmative action bullshit. Muslims get no free pass here. As I do with races, I'll judge each religious fool based on the level of their brainwashing.

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon
God of Arabia.

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah Except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of
Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he
turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual Leaders), who teach annihilatiln of Israel and destruction of America,the great Satan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American
Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,'
The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99
excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be VERY SUSPICIOUS OF ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.

Personally, I've met a few brainwashed christian types that at least focus on things that help the community. One of the smartest people I know (works on satellite guidance systems for the NSA) is a born again christian. Myself, along with another intelligent atheist friend would double team him (intellectually) for entire nights, attacking the very foundations of his beliefs yet he stuck to his belief...the god damned faith thing just fucks up any kind of logic for religious people. But I had to admit, his belief certainly wasn't based on being a dumbass. Dude was wicked sharp. Anyway, he dumped his Standford education and very promising career to focus on faith. The best I can tell, he probably got himself into financial trouble during the housing crash, trying to help people out that were in financial need.

Conclusion: Most religious people are dumbasses but there are a few smart people with some sort of flaw in their brain that allows them to be brainwashed...very dangerous if those people are in a hostile religion. I favor the "nuke the site from orbit" approach to organized religion. I'd be willing to drop a bomb, simultaneously on the Vatican and Mecca. I have a borderline hatred of what all religions have done to humanity but manage to control myself by focusing on curing the equally disturbing rabid fanboism of Apple and Sony, and by inhaling a shot of Nitrous Oxide from finished whipped cream cans at least once a month.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » January 26, 2010, 2:35 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I'm gonna keep my comments on most of the conversation to myself, however I did want to mention this part. While it might not be done the best way now, can you imagine if we got every damn religious day of the year off? No one would ever fucking work. Granted, companies could just stay open most of those days, give people all a set number of personal holidays and watch everyone take the same days off... I mean, if I didn't celebrate Christmas I wouldn't want to be one of like 3 people in the office that day.

I'm not saying in any way that everyone's religious holidays should be federal holidays. I was just pointing out the inequity of one group, allegedly persecuted, having their two major religious holidays observed by federal mandate while no one else does. Personally, I think that there should be no religious holidays at all (no Christmas, no Easter, etc.). Anyone that wants to celebrate their religious holidays should take time off using their personal time, if available and convenient for their employers, or observe the holiday on a day they'd otherwise have off (weekends for most people).

miir · Post by **miir** » January 26, 2010, 2:35 pm

So go through that list Winnow and substitue Muslim with Christian and make your arguments from scripture found inthe Old Testament.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 26, 2010, 2:37 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Christianity is the only religion for which major religious holidays are recognized as federal holidays. Want Ramadan, Holla Mohalla or Darwin's birthday off to celebrate your views? Too bad - use your own personal time for your whacky sinner's ideas.

Actually fucknut, your company decides which of those days you get off. So unless your employer is the federal government, then what they have chosen for holidays means jack shit. If you work for a Muslim company and they want to give you Mohammed's Ass Washing Day off as a holiday, then you get that as a holiday.

I've never walked up to a stranger on the street to tell someone that they're wasting their time with the religion they practice. On the other hand, there have been many occasions that I've been told by complete strangers that I'm going to hell if I don't find Jesus for any perceived non-Christian beliefs expressed by Darwin Fish, Obama bumper stickers, or FSM t-shirts or a Jesusite eavesdropping on a quiet, private conversation about evolution or atheism.

I really could care less. This has nothing at all to do with the hypocrisy and double standards there are with the political correctness of being anti-Christian vs anti-Muslim. If I say Muslims are a group of war mongering heathens, then the liberal left has hissy fits while slapping another "God is dead" bumper sticker on their fucking VW.

Just two weeks ago, I was accused of being godless and on the way to hell by a retard at Barnes and Noble who, while reaching for his copy of Townhall Magazine, noticed I was thumbing through a copy of International Socialist Review.

He should have offered to buy you a one way ticket to England. Quite frankly, if you would move out of the country permanently, I will pay for the ticket.

Too many people like you, Kilmoll, interpret any expression of an alternate view as an attack on your own . When it comes to legitimate criticisms, you're too thin-skinned, and perhaps too insecure in your own beliefs, to handle it and you cry and scream - laughably - about how it's *your* beliefs that are persecuted and on the defensive. You need to get a grip, man. Unless, of course, you just like pretending to be a victim.

Do I really need to dig through this shitass liberal board to find examples of this? How many people have ripped Midnyte in particular for his "fuck Muslims" bit? What is the over/under on the percentage of said people that are also atheist and have made anti-Christian remarks? Anyone care to wager?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 26, 2010, 2:38 pm

miir wrote:So go through that list Winnow and substitue Muslim with Christian and make your arguments from scripture found inthe Old Testament.

I'm sure you easily could. "Fuck religions!"

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 26, 2010, 2:53 pm

This is an example of the shit we see daily. There would be an uproar of enormous proportions of someone told a Muslim they could not wear their towel or have a Quran in their school.

Mount Vernon teacher can keep Bible in his room but not on desk top, school board president says

Jami Kinton
News Journal

MOUNT VERNON — The president of the Mount Vernon City Schools Board of Education said today a middle school teacher may keep a Bible in his classroom, but not on top of his desk.

John Freshwater, an eighth-grade science teacher, refused the district’s directive to remove his personal Bible from atop his desk Wednesday, calling it an “infringement on my deeply held religious beliefs.”

“He can keep the book inside his desk or have it out during his lunch or free periods,” board president Ian Watson said. “There is a lot of misinformation out there, which is to be expected, but we only asked him to remove the book from his desk top when students are in the room.”

Superintendent Steve Short said as far as he knows the Bible still is atop Freshwater’s desk.

Watson said Freshwater might face an insubordination charge if he fails to comply.

“If he doesn’t remove the Bible from his desk top, at some point, and I don’t know that point yet because we haven’t progressed that far, but some claim of insubordination could be made,” Watson said. “There would be penalties involved, which would vary depending on level of insubordination.”

Watson would not comment on the possible punishments, but said Short would make that determination.

Freshwater, who held a press conference on Mount Vernon’s public square Wednesday, could not be reached for comment today.

“Mr. Freshwater has not yet been placed on leave at this time,” Short said. “I’m still hoping that we can get this resolved, but as far as trying to guess when that would be would be conjecture at this time.”

A statement from the school board about the directive to Freshwater said, “The Mount Vernon Schools has not taken this action because it opposes religion but because it has an obligation under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to protect against the establishment of religion in the schools. As a public school system, the district cannot teach, promote or favor any religion or religious beliefs.”

The separation of chruch and state? Only if you are separating Christianity from the state.

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BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS

'Five pillars of Islam' taught in public school
'Education practice wouldn't last 10 seconds if kids told to dress as priests'

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Posted: October 10, 2006
1:00 am Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

Another school has been "teaching" Islam by having students study and learn Muslim prayers and dress as Muslims, and a lawyer who argued a previous dispute over this issue to the U.S. Supreme Court said such methodologies wouldn't "last 10 seconds" if it were Christianity being taught.

"Would it have been 'just cultural education' if students were in simulated baptisms, wearing a crucifix, having taken the name of St. John and with praise banners saying 'Praise be to Jesus Christ' on classroom walls?" asked Edward White III, of the Thomas More Law Center.

Supt. Don Grotting

His comments came after a new protest arose in Nyssa, Ore., where one parent raised objections when the Islamic teachings came to light. The district there, according to Supt. Don Grotting, is teaching a chapter in a history textbook "Journey Across Time" that talks about "how civilization has developed and some of the particular aspects of Islam."

"We teach out of the book, and there are some supplemental class activities," he told WND. "The kids do some skits, they could bring a food from the region, you could build a prop that would have depicted (something) maybe during that time period.

"If you wanted to you could dress up (as a Muslim) for extra credit," he said.

He said students also learned about the climate of the Middle East, the food and everyday activities of Islam, and the geography and the lay of the land.

Still another assignment was to learn the "five pillars" of Islam, study Ramadan and listen to guest speakers including an American Muslim who arrived dressed in her religious costume to talk to the kids about her Quran.

"She relayed to the kids, if you're a Christian you have your Bible, this is our Quran," Grotting said.